Zach Wilson Earns Rave Reviews During OTA’s; NY Jets Podcast

[Jet Nut]

13 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

WR Coach Shawn Jefferson talking about Sam Darnold almost exactly two years ago today.... in Camp... without pads.

Coaches talking up a rookie QB in his first camp is completely different than the media, the NY media no less reporting that a rookie QB is tearing it up in camp.

[Maynard13]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

First of all I didnt say anything about Crowder the player or his place on this team, I said that they dont have to get rid of his contract to sign Moses.

Secondly I dont see why a Crowder, the only proven WR, a consistent pass catcher who knows how to run routes and get to open spots wouldn't be a help to a young QB.  Like you say, hes good, not great.  But he'd be an asset to Wilsons development IMO.  I dont understand how a 27 year old WR cant be on a team with a 21 year old QB?  But could with a 23 year old QB.  The whole hes not for a rebuilding team and has wear and tear isnt part of their thinking, its financial

I think its just a case of his role and the team dependence on Crowder is different now and they want to have his contract reflect that.

 

Crowder wants a new contract. Don’t see JD doing that. And he’s not the ONLY proven WR we have - see Cole and Davis who we just signed. 10 M is 10 M.  We have 3 WR’s who will be staples in this offense- Mims, Davis and Moore. And I believe JD will spend another high pick on another one next year and possibly sign another. There’s only so much room. 

[Maynard13]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Which is exactly why we shouldn't trade him.  We would be saving $5mm and a 4th rounder if we made that trade.

Penny wise and pound foolish.

Regardless, even if he’s on the team this year, he’s gone next.  It will be very interesting to see how JD handles this Crowder situation. And Maye as well. 
 

[Maynard13]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I am sorry and don’t mean to be argumentative but this is wrong.  
Yes, we’re in a rebuild. Yes it’s a business.  

What’s best for the rebuild and business is to develop a franchise QB.  That should be there first, second and third priority. After that you can worry about panache. 
 

Building the best possible team around him in his rookie year is the proper way to accomplish that goal.   Cutting crowder would be exceptionally short sighted. 
 

I don’t have a problem with that. I like Crowder. How can you not. But I just don’t see him as a long term option.  We just drafted Moore, who will play the slot. That’s etched in stone. Signing Moses to a 3 year contract would be better insurance and Zach’s development. We have a decent set of WR’s and JD will get a couple more burners next year. 

[Jet Nut]

14 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

Crowder wants a new contract. Don’t see JD doing that. And he’s not the ONLY proven WR we have - see Cole and Davis who we just signed. 10 M is 10 M.  We have 3 WR’s who will be staples in this offense- Mims, Davis and Moore. And I believe JD will spend another high pick on another one next year and possibly sign another. There’s only so much room. 

 Who said Crowder wants a new contract.  It’s the other way around, the Jets are looking to cut his pay down now that he’s been knocked down a few pegs.  
You’re right Davis is a good option.  Cole isnt anywhere near as a give as Crowder right now.

I’m not getting the argument against Crowder for one more year.   

[Maynard13]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 Who said Crowder wants a new contract.  It’s the other way around, the Jets are looking to cut his pay down now that he’s been knocked down a few pegs.  
You’re right Davis is a good option.  Cole isnt anywhere near as a give as Crowder right now.

I’m not getting the argument against Crowder for one more year.   

I think it’s a win / win / win if he’s kept or cut or traded. Either option has its positives and just don’t see the negatives. Why is JD playing hardball with him if he’s SO important?  It’s quite telling JD doesn’t see Crowder’s value here. Something is going on and they just don’t see eye to eye. 

[Jet Nut]

19 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

I think it’s a win / win / win if he’s kept or cut or traded. Either option has its positives and just don’t see the negatives. Why is JD playing hardball with him if he’s SO important?  It’s quite telling JD doesn’t see Crowder’s value here. Something is going on and they just don’t see eye to eye. 

Its simple, Crowders role is diminished so they’re trying to reduce his pay to his lowered value to this team.  

That’s not the same as not seeing any value to keeping Crowder a Jet.

[FidelioJet]

9 hours ago, Maynard13 said:

I don’t have a problem with that. I like Crowder. How can you not. But I just don’t see him as a long term option.  We just drafted Moore, who will play the slot. That’s etched in stone. Signing Moses to a 3 year contract would be better insurance and Zach’s development. We have a decent set of WR’s and JD will get a couple more burners next year. 

Two things..

1) I don't think it's etched in stone at all that Moore is playing the slot.  Saleh just said he can play anywhere and I think he believers that.  I'm sure he'll play some slot but he's capable of playing the X and Y too.  We really don't what Mims is yet or if he can stay on the field.

2) Crowder might not be back next year - but keeping him for Zach's rookie season can be invaluable .  JD made this mistake with Robby/Sam (I know different contract situation) pinching pennies to the detriment of his young QB is not a mistake JD is not going to make that mistake again.

I have faith in JD.

[Jetluv58]

Two’s company, three’s a Crowder. 

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, Jetluv58 said:

Two’s company, three’s a Crowder. 

[The Crusher]

22 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Jealousy is a wasted emotion. 

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, Jetluv58 said:

Two’s company, three’s a Crowder. 

That's funny!

[jgb]

14 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

 Who said Crowder wants a new contract.  It’s the other way around, the Jets are looking to cut his pay down now that he’s been knocked down a few pegs.  
You’re right Davis is a good option.  Cole isnt anywhere near as a give as Crowder right now.

I’m not getting the argument against Crowder for one more year.   

[Rocky Landing]

One really has to question the Jets FO, and new coaching staff's judgement here. They draft Zach Wilson second overall, and then surround him with two utter scrubs in Morgan, and white, with ZERO NFL snaps. What does the QB room in Jersey look like? A rookie, and a couple of camp arms. Great. What are they thinking? There are vet QBs out there. Hell, Matt Barkley would love to get a call from the Jets, I'm sure. And as pedestrian as he is, he would be invaluable support to Wilson. 

[win4ever]

I wasn't the biggest fan of Wilson, but so far, everything has been great out of OTA.  

Am I one of the few people that like the strategy of having younger backups, rather than this veteran presence movement?  We brought in Brunell for Sanchez, did nothing for him.  Fitzpatrick for Geno, did nothing.  McCown for Darnold, not like it did much for him either.  

I think a veteran is extremely valuable if they are playing at a high level, because then the prospect is learning without pressure, and actually has reason to listen to the veteran.  You think Wilson would give a crap what Nick Foles thinks if he knows Foles is just a placeholder?  Alex Smith was a great mentor to Mahomes because he was playing at a Pro Bowl level, yet he had no real impact on Haskins because he was injured.   There is no competition no matter who we sign right now, because if you are picked at 2, you know you are the future.  You think Justin Fields gives a crap what Andy Dalton does?  Or Fitz with Tua?

I think having a prospect sit for a year is absolutely great but only if you have a legitimate starter for at least one year.  Not some journeyman guy that can't get a job yet.  

With how things broke, I'm perfectly fine with two backup guys to Wilson, because we're in the "Throw Wilson to the wolves" mode anyway.  If we need a veteran coach to outline concepts for a QB, then burn it all down, because that's the fundamental job of an OC.  If your coach can't do that, what's the point?

[Savage69]

7 hours ago, win4ever said:

I wasn't the biggest fan of Wilson, but so far, everything has been great out of OTA.  

Am I one of the few people that like the strategy of having younger backups, rather than this veteran presence movement?  We brought in Brunell for Sanchez, did nothing for him.  Fitzpatrick for Geno, did nothing.  McCown for Darnold, not like it did much for him either.  

I think a veteran is extremely valuable if they are playing at a high level, because then the prospect is learning without pressure, and actually has reason to listen to the veteran.  You think Wilson would give a crap what Nick Foles thinks if he knows Foles is just a placeholder?  Alex Smith was a great mentor to Mahomes because he was playing at a Pro Bowl level, yet he had no real impact on Haskins because he was injured.   There is no competition no matter who we sign right now, because if you are picked at 2, you know you are the future.  You think Justin Fields gives a crap what Andy Dalton does?  Or Fitz with Tua?

I think having a prospect sit for a year is absolutely great but only if you have a legitimate starter for at least one year.  Not some journeyman guy that can't get a job yet.  

With how things broke, I'm perfectly fine with two backup guys to Wilson, because we're in the "Throw Wilson to the wolves" mode anyway.  If we need a veteran coach to outline concepts for a QB, then burn it all down, because that's the fundamental job of an OC.  If your coach can't do that, what's the point?

49'ers had one of the best backup's ever in Steve Young and Montana barely talked to him..

[Barton]

On 6/11/2021 at 3:23 PM, DetroitRed said:

Yes, I think it’s the combination of Moore and Berrios making Crowder expendable 

2 guys who have never done anything.

Crowder needs to stay on this team. 

[The Crusher]

7 hours ago, win4ever said:

I wasn't the biggest fan of Wilson, but so far, everything has been great out of OTA.  

Am I one of the few people that like the strategy of having younger backups, rather than this veteran presence movement?  We brought in Brunell for Sanchez, did nothing for him.  Fitzpatrick for Geno, did nothing.  McCown for Darnold, not like it did much for him either.  

I think a veteran is extremely valuable if they are playing at a high level, because then the prospect is learning without pressure, and actually has reason to listen to the veteran.  You think Wilson would give a crap what Nick Foles thinks if he knows Foles is just a placeholder?  Alex Smith was a great mentor to Mahomes because he was playing at a Pro Bowl level, yet he had no real impact on Haskins because he was injured.   There is no competition no matter who we sign right now, because if you are picked at 2, you know you are the future.  You think Justin Fields gives a crap what Andy Dalton does?  Or Fitz with Tua?

I think having a prospect sit for a year is absolutely great but only if you have a legitimate starter for at least one year.  Not some journeyman guy that can't get a job yet.  

With how things broke, I'm perfectly fine with two backup guys to Wilson, because we're in the "Throw Wilson to the wolves" mode anyway.  If we need a veteran coach to outline concepts for a QB, then burn it all down, because that's the fundamental job of an OC.  If your coach can't do that, what's the point?

Great post as usual. Tua and Fitz currently play on different teams. 

[The Crusher]

Just now, Barton said:

2 guys who have never done anything.

Crowder needs to stay on this team. 

No idea on how anyone thinks anything but that. Crowder was most important user of receiving core for last few years and at least early on will be most important part on this one. Know quantity, proven and experienced. Why would we need that? Haha 

[Jet Nut]

11 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

49'ers had one of the best backup's ever in Steve Young and Montana barely talked to him..

That situation is nothing like ours. 

[Joe W. Namath]

On 6/12/2021 at 9:13 AM, Maynard13 said:

Regardless, even if he’s on the team this year, he’s gone next.  It will be very interesting to see how JD handles this Crowder situation. And Maye as well. 
 

Unfortunately for crowder and maye, they have the mike mccagnan stench on them.  So they will not be here much longer.

Quinnen Williams will be the only mccagnan player here long term.

[Snell41]

For the sake of Zack Wilson's development, the Jets should consider adding another QB to their roster-- perhaps one that has actually played a snap, or two of regular season NFL football. 

Why?


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[jgb]

Early results on Wilson are encouraging. Sure better than the opposite but take everything with a grain of salt in June.

[Jethead]

1) Sign Moses, keep Fant

2) Trade Crowder for Ertz straight up.

[NYJ1]

Who gives a sh*t about Zach and his rave reviews in spring practice? I could honestly care less. I'm happy he's throwing the ball well but I'll only be excited wheǹ there are results on the FIELD......

[Savage69]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

That situation is nothing like ours. 

True but after the Pats traded Bledsoe to the Bills they never had a Vet backup behind Brady and when your winning like they were that's when a Vet QB could come in handy.. When Brady went down in 08 Cassel had zero NFL starts, but he did pretty well..

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, Snell41 said:

 

Why?


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

A backup QB isn't just a guy who warms a seat on the sidelines while holding a clipboard. If a team like the Jets is hoping to develop a rookie, having a seasoned vet, who knows his role, is of enormous benefit to a rook. 

The Bills blew it in Josh Allen's first year by starting the season with only Late Nate Peterman as the vet, but in his second and third season, Matt Barkley was an important piece to Allen's development. Barkley has a pedestrian arm, but he was a decent game manager when he was on the field, and was vital support to Allen on the sidelines, and in the QB room. Part of the backups job is to watch what's going on in the game, and relay information to the starting QB. 

How many times do you see a shot of the QB sharing an iPad with his backup when the offense is off the field? That's not the Backup reading over the QB's shoulder. That's the backup pointing out things that he saw from the sidelines that the Starting QB did not see on the field.

Morgan and White are not going to be capable of any of that. They don't have the experience. Look at what the Patriots* just did with Mac Jones-- they brought in Hoyer, who sucks as a QB, but is the consummate smart backup. They didn't bring him in as a camp arm. They brought him in for Mac.

The Jets need to provide that sort of support for Wilson, if they hope to help push the Patriots* to the bottom of the division, where they deserve to be. That's my two cents.

[flgreen]

2 hours ago, Savage69 said:

49'ers had one of the best backup's ever in Steve Young and Montana barely talked to him..

LOL

Yeah.  Saw an interview with Aaron Rodgers some years ago, the interviewer asked him how much Favre had helped him, Rodgers replied, "I think he said hello once in the hallway"

[Jet Nut]

45 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

True but after the Pats traded Bledsoe to the Bills they never had a Vet backup behind Brady and when your winning like they were that's when a Vet QB could come in handy.. When Brady went down in 08 Cassel had zero NFL starts, but he did pretty well..

All of these things are true but not comparable.  The need for vets with young QBs are to help them with film and the play book.  Reading Ds.  Learning how to deal with NFL life and pressures, how to be the focal point of a team.  Brady was a third year vet, SB winner, SB MVP when they traded Bledsoe.  

[Savage69]

32 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

All of these things are true but not comparable.  The need for vets with young QBs are to help them with film and the play book.  Reading Ds.  Learning how to deal with NFL life and pressures, how to be the focal point of a team.  Brady was a third year vet, SB winner, SB MVP when they traded Bledsoe.  

Shouldn't QB coach Rob Calabrese help with that??

[Joejet]

The Jets have Greg Knapp as an offensive assistant who has been an OC as well as a QB coach for a lot of years for a lot of good QBs. His experience will be equal to or better than what a backup jag can do for Wilson.

[Rocky Landing]

A lot of people on here dismissing the value of having a veteran backup QB behind a rookie. There was a pretty good article in the Boston Globe that talks about Mac Jones' development with the Patriots*. I think Belichick*, who inexplicably seems to love Cam Newton, even realizes that Newton will not be much use to Jones, and so he brought in Hoyer. And, Jones' understands the value of veterans on the team, as well.

Quote: “Honestly, it’s going to be a growing process, and I’m learning from the other guys,” he said. “The veteran players, obviously, it’s kind of like second nature for them. And I have to figure out how to do it fast and execute the plays really fast to the level of a new offense.”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/06/10/sports/patriots-rookie-mac-jones-appears-have-long-way-go-beat-out-cam-newton/

And the vet presence (especially if, as expected, Wilson starts week one) becomes more important once the season starts. A QB coach is valuable, sure. But, they're not throwing to the receivers, and running all the same drills next to Jones. And they're not poised to take over, if Wilson goes down. That's an important relationship that Wilson won't have in Morgan, or White.

 

[sackdance]

On 6/11/2021 at 4:18 PM, ncjetman said:

berrios is a jags jag - he’s good for a couple of non impact receptions a game - this is where you don’t let non contact ota scrimmages fool you - this kid isn’t turning into wayne chrebet.. ever


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Would you be happier if he was dropping passes and running sloppy routes? 

[Savage69]

26 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

A lot of people on here dismissing the value of having a veteran backup QB behind a rookie. There was a pretty good article in the Boston Globe that talks about Mac Jones' development with the Patriots*. I think Belichick*, who inexplicably seems to love Cam Newton, even realizes that Newton will not be much use to Jones, and so he brought in Hoyer. And, Jones' understands the value of veterans on the team, as well.

Quote: “Honestly, it’s going to be a growing process, and I’m learning from the other guys,” he said. “The veteran players, obviously, it’s kind of like second nature for them. And I have to figure out how to do it fast and execute the plays really fast to the level of a new offense.”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/06/10/sports/patriots-rookie-mac-jones-appears-have-long-way-go-beat-out-cam-newton/

And the vet presence (especially if, as expected, Wilson starts week one) becomes more important once the season starts. A QB coach is valuable, sure. But, they're not throwing to the receivers, and running all the same drills next to Jones. And they're not poised to take over, if Wilson goes down. That's an important relationship that Wilson won't have in Morgan, or White.

 

Hoyer first signed with NE in 2009 as a UDFA so BB knows him..

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, Savage69 said:

Hoyer first signed with NE in 2009 as a UDFA so BB knows him..

And Hoyer knows the system.