How do you grade Joe Douglass across key aspects of his job?

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1. Draft

Trending up:  Wilson

Trending down:  Becton

Look like hits:  Hall, AVT, Moore, Carter, Carter II, Echols (at very least depth)

Look like misses:  Most of 2020 draft class aside from Becton, Hall, Mann and possibly A Davis (depth)

Want to see more:  Pinnock (at safety), 2 converted LBs, DT

 

2. Low Budget FA + Undrafted

Starters:  JFM, Berrios, Quincy Williams, Kickers

Depth:  Mike White, Huff, Guidry, Riley, Ty Johnson

 

3. Free Agency

Hits:  Fant, McGovern, Moses

Misses:  Rankins (he’s been bad), GVR, J Davis

Question Marks:  C Davis (down year + injury), C Lawson (very promising pre injury), Joyner (injury)

Note:  consider structure of contracts (eg, out clauses, dead money)

 

4. Trades

Hits:  LDT, Adams for 2 firsts +, Darnold for high 2nd & 4th + 6th, Herndon for upgrade to 4th

Decent:  A Lewis for 7th

Question Mark:  Leo Williams for 3rd & 5th

 

5. Coaching

Hit:  Fired Gase

Question Mark:  Saleh

 

My scores

1. Draft = B- (2021 is very promising W big upside; 2020 is the opposite)

2. Low Budget = A-.  Call him Thrifty Joe.  He’s done a nice job of identifying underutilized / undeveloped / or hidden talent in this bucket.  Gets dinged a bit on place kicker 

3. Free agency = B-.  He has followed his plan and has been superb at structuring contracts and avoiding crushing dead money.  But he doesn’t have enough hits on a team that desperately needs them.  Grade could be higher if not for injuries

4. Trades = A.  Thrifty Joe meet Trader Joe

5. Coaching = TBD.  Helping push Gase out and replacing with arguably the top HC  candidate in the market looked brilliant but jury obviously is still out on Saleh

[Bronx]

Thank you Joe Douglas, thank you!

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

3 minutes ago, Bronx said:

Thank you Joe Douglas, thank you!

Wow- thoughtful response.  Appreciate the insights.  LOL

[T0mShane]

Unless Becton pulls a 180, the only player he’s drafted that will ever sniff a Pro Bowl berth is Vera Tucker, and even that pick was hugely expensive.

[slimjasi]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Unless Becton pulls a 180, the only player he’s drafted that will ever sniff a Pro Bowl berth is Vera Tucker, and even that pick was hugely expensive.

Interesting.

Forgetting the debate over the QB’s potential for a minute, I’d argue that Michael Carter, Elijah Moore, and Bryce Hall all have a chance to “sniff” a pro bowl. 

[section314]

19 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

1. Draft

Trending up:  Wilson

Trending down:  Becton

Look like hits:  Hall, AVT, Moore, Carter, Carter II, Echols (at very least depth)

Look like misses:  Most of 2020 draft class aside from Becton, Hall, Mann and possibly A Davis (depth)

Want to see more:  Pinnock (at safety), 2 converted LBs, DT

 

2. Low Budget FA + Undrafted

Starters:  JFM, Berrios, Quincy Williams, Kickers

Depth:  Mike White, Huff, Guidry, Riley, Ty Johnson

 

3. Free Agency

Hits:  Fant, McGovern, Moses

Misses:  Rankins (he’s been bad), GVR, J Davis

Question Marks:  C Davis (down year + injury), C Lawson (very promising pre injury), Joyner (injury)

Note:  consider structure of contracts (eg, out clauses, dead money)

 

4. Trades

Hits:  LDT, Adams for 2 firsts +, Darnold for high 2nd & 4th + 6th, Herndon for upgrade to 4th

Decent:  A Lewis for 7th

Question Mark:  Leo Williams for 3rd & 5th

 

5. Coaching

Hit:  Fired Gase

Question Mark:  Saleh

 

My scores

1. Draft = B- (2021 is very promising W big upside; 2020 is the opposite)

2. Low Budget = A-.  Call him Thrifty Joe.  He’s done a nice job of identifying underutilized / undeveloped / or hidden talent in this bucket.  Gets dinged a bit on place kicker 

3. Free agency = B-.  He has followed his plan and has been superb at structuring contracts and avoiding crushing dead money.  But he doesn’t have enough hits on a team that desperately needs them.  Grade could be higher if not for injuries

4. Trades = A.  Thrifty Joe meet Trader Joe

5. Coaching = TBD.  Helping push Gase out and replacing with arguably the top HC  candidate in the market looked brilliant but jury obviously is still out on Saleh

Pretty fair.

[T0mShane]

Just now, slimjasi said:

Interesting.

Forgetting the debate over the QB’s potential for a minute, I’d argue that Michael Carter, Elijah Moore, and Bryce Hall all have a chance to “sniff” a pro bowl. 

All fine players, but unlikely. 

[CSNY]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Unless Becton pulls a 180, the only player he’s drafted that will ever sniff a Pro Bowl berth is Vera Tucker, and even that pick was hugely expensive.

Although you did say drafted he did pick up Berrios from Cheatriots practice squad who is now an all pro. But it too early to make this type of prediction as there are many promising young kids he has drafted. Moore , Hall Carter and Wilson come to mind 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

Just now, T0mShane said:

All fine players, but unlikely. 

Says the guy who thought Adam Gase was the answer 

[T0mShane]

Just now, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Says the guy who thought Adam Gase was the answer 

Adam Gase was a visionary

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

All fine players, but unlikely. 

I hope you are wrong, but time will tell.

Btw, I forgot to mention Mr. All Pro  

[CSNY]

2 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Says the guy who thought Adam Gase was the answer 

Didn’t know that Tom was a Gaser. As normally he makes good observations Kinda surprised at this 

[CSNY]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Adam Gase was a visionary

Surely you jest

[Jet Nut]

15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Unless Becton pulls a 180, the only player he’s drafted that will ever sniff a Pro Bowl berth is Vera Tucker, and even that pick was hugely expensive.

All Becton has to do is stay healthy and he makes the Pro Bowl.  People were calling for him to possibly make it as a rookie.

 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Adam Gase was a visionary

Completely agree.  Only coach to run what seemed to be a 50 year old running back and now boxer up the gut on 30 straight 3rd / 4th & shorts.

That kind of is visionary.  To be fair, it would have worked if he was given the chance to do it a 31st straight chance.  That was the threshold for ‘no way this guy runs the same play again’

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I hope you are wrong, but time will tell.

Btw, I forgot to mention Mr. All Pro  

The streak of good fortune that Berrios currently enjoys is something we should all aspire to. 

[slimjasi]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

All Becton has to do is stay healthy and he makes the Pro Bowl.  People were calling for him to possibly make it as a rookie.

 

It’s funny how quickly narratives change. 
 

You have to laugh at it 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, CSNY said:

Surely you jest

 

1 minute ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Completely agree.  Only coach to run what seemed to be a 50 year old running back and now boxer up the gut on 30 straight 3rd / 4th & shorts.

That kind of is visionary.  To be fair, it would have worked if he was given the chance to do it a 31st straight chance.  That was the threshold for ‘no way this guy runs the same play again’

He saved your beloved franchise from the worst GM in the history of the sport. His offensive personnel featured a pack of guys who should be out of the league right now, plus Jamal Adams (who should also be out of the league).

[UntouchableCrew]

His process: A

His results thus far: C

I like that:

• He values the draft and likes to acquire lots of future picks
• He is thoughtful in his approach to FA and spending to keep maximum flexibility
• He was done exceedingly well with trades and maximizing value
• He understands positional value and generally doesn't waste premium resources on less important positions. 

Actual talent acquisition has been a mixed bag. My general feeling is 1) he knows what he's doing and 2) if we give him a long enough leash this will work long term. Maybe I'm an apologist or I'm just too invested in Douglas' success but I just love his pedigree and believe in him. 

Obviously the 2020 draft isn't looking great, but given how clearly aligned the 2021 draft is with what this coaching staff wants to do I have a hard time not thinking Gase had an influence on the 2020 group. I feel very good about the 2021 draft which is the first draft in a very long time that feels like it's going to have several long term contributors on this team, and potentially some studs.

This is a huge offseason for him in both the draft and FA.

[DepressedJetsFan23]

What about James Morgan? ?

[undertow]

I wasn't a fan till he traded for Joe Flacco.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

He saved your beloved franchise from the worst GM in the history of the sport. His offensive personnel featured a pack of guys who should be out of the league right now, plus Jamal Adams (who should also be out of the league).

He also is the main reason I suffer from chronic diarrhea

[T0mShane]

11 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

All Becton has to do is stay healthy and he makes the Pro Bowl.  People were calling for him to possibly make it as a rookie.

 

We all have high hopes for Becton, but Becton needs to have a coming to Jesus moment if he’s going to realize his potential. Go watch the Morgan Moses comments re: Becton. 

[Larz]

Took a last place team to last place

thats his record until it changes 

[Dcat]

34 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Unless Becton pulls a 180, the only player he’s drafted that will ever sniff a Pro Bowl berth is Vera Tucker, and even that pick was hugely expensive.

can't say I agree with this at all. And one would expect the vast majority of pro bowlers to be early picks, 1st 2 rounds, so should you really be chiding any GM that his 4th round picks and lower didn't make pro bowls? AVT, Moore certainly have decent chance for it. A Becton resurrection at RT would also be a possibility.  

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, Dcat said:

can't say I agree with this at all. And one would expect the vast majority of pro bowlers to be early picks, 1st 2 rounds, so should you really be chiding any GM that his 4th round picks and lower didn't make pro bowls? AVT, Moore certainly have decent chance for it. A Becton resurrection at RT would also be a possibility.  

For sure, things can change and guys can emerge. I wasn’t chiding Douglas as much as I was contextualizing. Also, i just read an article about Wirfs getting 37 of 51 first-place votes for All-Pro and how he doesn’t care about making All-Pro because it’s all about the team:

““You want to do your best for your teammates who are going out there and grinding every week, and you just want to showcase what you can do on Sundays and not let your teammates down,” Wirfs said. “That’s just kind of my mindset going into games and into the season.”

[The Crusher]

49 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Unless Becton pulls a 180, the only player he’s drafted that will ever sniff a Pro Bowl berth is Vera Tucker, and even that pick was hugely expensive.

Jamal Adam’s makes this a mute point 

[UntouchableCrew]

23 minutes ago, undertow said:

I wasn't a fan till he traded for Joe Flacco.

I feel pretty strongly that going into the season with 0 NFL starts at the QB position and then trading a pick for Flacco is the most indefensible decision Douglas has made. Clearly not a huge deal but just kind of baffling.

[Jet Nut]

23 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

We all have high hopes for Becton, but Becton needs to have a coming to Jesus moment if he’s going to realize his potential. Go watch the Morgan Moses comments re: Becton. 

What did he say?

 

[Hal N of Provo]

1 hour ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

1. Draft

Trending up:  Wilson

Trending down:  Becton

Look like hits:  Hall, AVT, Moore, Carter, Carter II, Echols (at very least depth)

Look like misses:  Most of 2020 draft class aside from Becton, Hall, Mann and possibly A Davis (depth)

Want to see more:  Pinnock (at safety), 2 converted LBs, DT

 

2. Low Budget FA + Undrafted

Starters:  JFM, Berrios, Quincy Williams, Kickers

Depth:  Mike White, Huff, Guidry, Riley, Ty Johnson

 

3. Free Agency

Hits:  Fant, McGovern, Moses

Misses:  Rankins (he’s been bad), GVR, J Davis

Question Marks:  C Davis (down year + injury), C Lawson (very promising pre injury), Joyner (injury)

Note:  consider structure of contracts (eg, out clauses, dead money)

 

4. Trades

Hits:  LDT, Adams for 2 firsts +, Darnold for high 2nd & 4th + 6th, Herndon for upgrade to 4th

Decent:  A Lewis for 7th

Question Mark:  Leo Williams for 3rd & 5th

 

5. Coaching

Hit:  Fired Gase

Question Mark:  Saleh

 

My scores

1. Draft = B- (2021 is very promising W big upside; 2020 is the opposite)

2. Low Budget = A-.  Call him Thrifty Joe.  He’s done a nice job of identifying underutilized / undeveloped / or hidden talent in this bucket.  Gets dinged a bit on place kicker 

3. Free agency = B-.  He has followed his plan and has been superb at structuring contracts and avoiding crushing dead money.  But he doesn’t have enough hits on a team that desperately needs them.  Grade could be higher if not for injuries

4. Trades = A.  Thrifty Joe meet Trader Joe

5. Coaching = TBD.  Helping push Gase out and replacing with arguably the top HC  candidate in the market looked brilliant but jury obviously is still out on Saleh

This is solid work.

 

My summary so far is he’s done a great job creatinging the opportunity for this off-season. lots of picks.   Lots of cap space for free agency.  

 It can’t be oversold how important this off-season is.  He wants one more season until he’s expected to compete for the playoffs, and I think he gets it as long as he brings in good players this season.  
 

Fans will grumble, but the roster was a dumpster fire and the 2020 class didn’t help much.  

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

What did he say?

 

Essentially, “you have to show up every day and put in the work.”

[Anthony Jet]

42 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

All Becton has to do is stay healthy and he makes the Pro Bowl.  People were calling for him to possibly make it as a rookie.

 

Stay healthy and dedicate himself to the game

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

31 minutes ago, undertow said:

I wasn't a fan till he traded for Joe Flacco.

SAME

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Essentially, “you have to show up every day and put in the work.”

So hes saying what anyone would say about a player being injured

Moses also said 

“Just being able to see his development pattern over the years, going into his second year, has been great,” Moses said of Becton, via Jets.com. “He's a young, talented player and the sky's the limit for him. Anything I can do for him, just from a knowledge standpoint from football, I'm willing to help him.”

[peekskill68]

9 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I feel pretty strongly that going into the season with 0 NFL starts at the QB position and then trading a pick for Flacco is the most indefensible decision Douglas has made. Clearly not a huge deal but just kind of baffling.

I wonder how much of this was a rookie HC and a rookie OC full of "all gas no brake" bravado telling JD "we got this" back in the summer?