How do you grade Joe Douglass across key aspects of his job?

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, Anthony Jet said:

Stay healthy and dedicate himself to the game

Needs to stay healthy, agree.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

So hes saying what anyone would say about a player being injured

Moses also said 

“Just being able to see his development pattern over the years, going into his second year, has been great,” Moses said of Becton, via Jets.com. “He's a young, talented player and the sky's the limit for him. Anything I can do for him, just from a knowledge standpoint from football, I'm willing to help him.”

The two sentiments do not contradict each other

[UntouchableCrew]

3 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

I wonder how much of this was a rookie HC and a rookie OC full of "all gas no brake" bravado telling JD "we got this" back in the summer?

Originally I thought Saleh probably played a role -- less in a "we got this" way and more in his general preference for youth and upside over experience.

He certainly sounded pro-Flacco in his post season presser though.

[undertow]

14 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I feel pretty strongly that going into the season with 0 NFL starts at the QB position and then trading a pick for Flacco is the most indefensible decision Douglas has made. Clearly not a huge deal but just kind of baffling.

Yeah there's a handful of headscratchers that prevent me from fully buying into the genius of Joe Douglas....the handling of the back up QB, FG kicker, and the WR position in Darnolds 3rd year come to mind.

[Jet Nut]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The two sentiments do not contradict each other

No, but its him talking about how talented he is.  

I agree with Moses, Becton has to learn how to stay on the field.  Though I'll never blame someone for blowing up a knee

[ScarletKnight89]

He has yet to draft or at least develop a star. I like Elijah Moore, is he really going to develop into one of the best receivers in the NFL though? I doubt it. He'll likely slide in as a very good player for a long time, which is a plus for Douglas, especially getting him in the second round, but this team drafts in the top 10 almost every year and there is still no star talent on this team. Michael Carter the RB is likely going to slide in as a really good back in a committee. I don't think he is a bell cow running back. That's a great pick though in the 4th round. 

We have two top 10 picks this year, can we finally get players who are going to impact the games in meaningful ways? Or are we just going to settle for safe picks again like Linderbaum or Kyle Hamilton? 

This team hasn't drafted a receiver in the 1st round since we took Santana Moss in 2001. In a league that is so offensively driven, that's borderline criminal. When it comes to the receiver position, this organization prefers the second tier players in the draft class, and guys that other teams no longer want. 

Joe Douglas has shown me early on, that he knows what areas he should be targeting in the draft, we needed a left tackle when he took Becton, we needed a QB when he took Wilson, it's just going to be about whether he is picking the right players at those positions.

As far as FA has been concerned he's found two really good players via the waiver wire. Berrios is a nice find as a role player and JFM is an above average starter. His big FA signings like McGovern and Fant have developed well. Davis didn't have the greatest first year with the Jets, but got hurt. He's not a bad player though. He can get open and catch the ball even with some of his drops. Carl Lawson unfortunately got hurt.

This is a big off season for Joe Douglas.

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Unless Becton pulls a 180, the only player he’s drafted that will ever sniff a Pro Bowl berth is Vera Tucker, and even that pick was hugely expensive.

Just to be annoying, Buffalo's entire defense doesn't have a Pro Bowler, and they are the number one defense in the NFL.

Lets not care about Pro Bowlers, and worry more about playoffs and Super Bowls.

[Dcat]

21 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The two sentiments do not contradict each other

They sure do with respect to the context you used it for. 

[Dcat]

Just now, Dcat said:

They sure do with respect to the context you used it for. 

Am I actually jumping in to a Jetnut argument?  Sorry guys... my bad.  I'm out.  

[freestater]

1 hour ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Wow- thoughtful response.  Appreciate the insights.  LOL

You haven't picked up on that fact that there's an undercurrent of humor on this board yet? It's the way we deal with watching this sh*tshow year after year. 

As for Douglas, I'd say you neglected the terrible Kalil free agent signing, so that's another hit against that category. 

[UntouchableCrew]

4 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

This team hasn't drafted a receiver in the 1st round since we took Santana Moss in 2001. In a league that is so offensively driven, that's borderline criminal. When it comes to the receiver position, this organization prefers the second tier players in the draft class, and guys that other teams no longer want. 

Problem with this is that the best receivers in the NFL are often not first rounders -- which is compounded by the fact that first round WRs bust at an extremely high rate. In fact its almost always "second tier" players passed over who end up the best in their class.

For reference:

Following were taken after the first round: 

Stefon Diggs, Davante Adams, Cooper Kupp, AJ Brown, Tyreek Hill, DK Metcalf, Adam Thelien, Allen Robinson, Keenan Allen, Michael Thomas, Antonio Brown, Kenny Golladay.... The list goes on.

By contrast here a few recent first rounders:

Breshad Perriman, Nelson Agoholor, Kevin White, Laquon Treadwell, Josh Doctson, Corey Coleman, John Ross, N'Keal Harry, Henry Ruggs, Jalen Reagor, etc.

Frankly, if you were comparing the list of First Round WRs vs. 2nd Round and Later WRs there's no question the second list is much, much better. Less true for QBs, OTs, and edge rushers where it's much harder to find top tier talent after the first round.

 

[ScarletKnight89]

2 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Problem with this is that the best receivers in the NFL are often not first rounders -- which is compounded by the fact that first round WRs bust at an extremely high rate. In fact its almost always "second tier" players passed over who end up the best in their class.

For reference:

Following were taken after the first round: 

Stefon Diggs, Davante Adams, Cooper Kupp, AJ Brown, Tyreek Hill, DK Metcalf, Adam Thelien, Allen Robinson, Keenan Allen, Michael Thomas, Antonio Brown, Kenny Golladay.... The list goes on.

By contrast here a few recent first rounders:

Breshad Perriman, Nelson Agoholor, Kevin White, Laquon Treadwell, Josh Doctson, Corey Coleman, John Ross, N'Keal Harry, Henry Ruggs, Jalen Reagor, etc.

Frankly, if you were comparing the list of First Round WRs vs. 2nd Round and Later WRs there's no question the second list is much, much better. Less true for QBs, OTs, and edge rushers where it's much harder to find top tier talent after the first round.

 

 

That's fair. But the Jets don't ever hit on those second tier guys. If they were, even every once in a while, that fact wouldn't stand out so much to me. 

You are leaving out some of the better first rounders though like Jamar Chase, Jaylen Waddle, DeVontae Smith, Justin Jefferson, Ceedee Lamb, DJ Moore, and Calvin Ridley who were all first rounders in the last few years but I get your point. You can find receivers after round 1. It's much harder to find the other positions you named after that round. 

 

[UntouchableCrew]

Just now, ScarletKnight89 said:

 

That's fair. But the Jets don't ever hit on those second tier guys. If they were, even every once in a while, that fact wouldn't stand out so much to me. 

You are leaving out some of the better first rounders though like Jamar Chase, Jaylen Waddle, DeVontae Smith, Justin Jefferson, Ceedee Lamb, DJ Moore, and Calvin Ridley who were all first rounders in the last few years but I get your point. You can find receivers after round 1. It's much harder to find the other positions you named after that round. 

 

Certainly there are first round picks that have panned out, my point is just that you are pretty much just as likely to land a stud WR in Round 2 as Round 1.

I'd also argue that Elijah Moore had a very good rookie year and will end up a stud WR for us for a very long time. He's definitely not in the Jamar Chase or Justin Jefferson class who were both guys that exploded as obvious #1 WRs right away but I think it's entirely possible he ends up with a better career than everyone else you mentioned.

He's not getting the love because he missed time with injuries and his QB play stunk but he looked very good for a lengthy stretch. If Zach takes a leap next year he could put up numbers.

(I'll also concede that between Stephen Hill, Devin Smith, and Denzel Mims the Jets track record of drafting 2nd round WRs is poor but I think that's happenstance as much as anything. I love to see them take a Day 2 WR this year.) 

[hawk]

2 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

1. Draft

Trending up:  Wilson

Trending down:  Becton

Look like hits:  Hall, AVT, Moore, Carter, Carter II, Echols (at very least depth)

Look like misses:  Most of 2020 draft class aside from Becton, Hall, Mann and possibly A Davis (depth)

Want to see more:  Pinnock (at safety), 2 converted LBs, DT

 

2. Low Budget FA + Undrafted

Starters:  JFM, Berrios, Quincy Williams, Kickers

Depth:  Mike White, Huff, Guidry, Riley, Ty Johnson

 

3. Free Agency

Hits:  Fant, McGovern, Moses

Misses:  Rankins (he’s been bad), GVR, J Davis

Question Marks:  C Davis (down year + injury), C Lawson (very promising pre injury), Joyner (injury)

Note:  consider structure of contracts (eg, out clauses, dead money)

 

4. Trades

Hits:  LDT, Adams for 2 firsts +, Darnold for high 2nd & 4th + 6th, Herndon for upgrade to 4th

Decent:  A Lewis for 7th

Question Mark:  Leo Williams for 3rd & 5th

 

5. Coaching

Hit:  Fired Gase

Question Mark:  Saleh

 

My scores

1. Draft = B- (2021 is very promising W big upside; 2020 is the opposite)

2. Low Budget = A-.  Call him Thrifty Joe.  He’s done a nice job of identifying underutilized / undeveloped / or hidden talent in this bucket.  Gets dinged a bit on place kicker 

3. Free agency = B-.  He has followed his plan and has been superb at structuring contracts and avoiding crushing dead money.  But he doesn’t have enough hits on a team that desperately needs them.  Grade could be higher if not for injuries

4. Trades = A.  Thrifty Joe meet Trader Joe

5. Coaching = TBD.  Helping push Gase out and replacing with arguably the top HC  candidate in the market looked brilliant but jury obviously is still out on Saleh

Enjoyed your post. 

I like what JD had done.  We can see some progress from last year, and more importantly the 2021 team showed progress throughout the season, including Wilson who I thought looked terrible most of the season.

To grade someone's performance though you have to have comparable to highly regarded GMs and not so highly regarded GMs.  

That being said, I am excited to see what this off-season brings because I feel JD has done a nice job.

JMO

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Joe Douglas is a legend. And will have this team competing for the playoffs next year. 
Thank you Joe! Thank you!!

[CanadienJetsFan]

He’s doing a good job but still has a long way to go to turning this franchise into a contender. Three simple objectives must still be attained:

1- zach’s development;

2- hitting on draft picks;

3-keeping the Johnsons at bay.

That’s all he needs to do right!

Rome wasn’t built in a day

[CSNY]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

 

He saved your beloved franchise from the worst GM in the history of the sport. 

Can’t argue with this at all 

[Darnold's Forehead]

I agree but would bring drafts and FAs down a letter grade with a big, fat asterisk*.

* This asterisk signifies the rampant injury bug that has ravaged nearly 80% of the newcomers this season.  Most FA signings and draft choices were smart decisions at areas of need with acceptable contracts.  This is why I still have hope for JD.  If he dumps some money in FA again, drafts intelligently as he has and we don’t get destroyed by injuries, there is ZERO reason we shouldn’t be competing for a Wildcard spot this season (assuming Zach continues developing.)

[Dunnie]

Although you did say drafted he did pick up Berrios from Cheatriots practice squad who is now an all pro. But it too early to make this type of prediction as there are many promising young kids he has drafted. Moore , Hall Carter and Wilson come to mind 

It is incredible that another teams practice squad castoff is our best skill pos player.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[doitny]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

So hes saying what anyone would say about a player being injured

Moses also said 

“Just being able to see his development pattern over the years, going into his second year, has been great,” Moses said of Becton, via Jets.com. “He's a young, talented player and the sky's the limit for him. Anything I can do for him, just from a knowledge standpoint from football, I'm willing to help him.”

what date was this said? i hope it was in training camp.

just sounds like a guy who just met Becton. 

you got to figure Becton has been in the building since OCT. and he worked with him all training camp. that last line doesnt sound like Becton is asking for help. 

IDK just that last line sticks out to me. sounds like he wants to help but Becton doesnt want it. sounds like a genetic answer you give when you 1st get to a team, not one where you spent a couple of months with the guy.

[JohnnyLV]

JD will live and die by Zach Wilson. If Zach realizes his potential it elevates every one around him and he will look like a genius.

If Zach doesn't, we will continue to be a bottom 1/4 team.

For Zach to succeed we still need several additions to the offense and we need to completely overhaul our linebacking and safety cores. I know most see edge as the be all end all and if Hutchinson or Thibodeaux falls to use you likely take them but edge will make frack all difference unless we solidify the middle and can cover the TE and outlet receivers. As it is, we get more pressure than people think (JFM was top 20 in the NFL, and Huff was very effective) but the outlets and hot reads are pretty much always open. 

JD needs to remember what Saleh told Wilson "we are going to lift you up". Well do that we still need to focus this offseason on offense because Zach is sort of the only thing that matters. We need a couple WR, and a couple TE and a couple OL (not necessarily first rounders) in this offseason. 

 

[Jet Nut]

47 minutes ago, doitny said:

what date was this said? i hope it was in training camp.

just sounds like a guy who just met Becton. 

you got to figure Becton has been in the building since OCT. and he worked with him all training camp. that last line doesnt sound like Becton is asking for help. 

IDK just that last line sticks out to me. sounds like he wants to help but Becton doesnt want it. sounds like a genetic answer you give when you 1st get to a team, not one where you spent a couple of months with the guy.

Why?  He says anything he wants hes willing to help him.  Thats it.  Nothing says Becton doesnt want it.   

Think your overanalyzing it

[Saul Goodman]

3 hours ago, CSNY said:

Although you did say drafted he did pick up Berrios from Cheatriots practice squad who is now an all pro. But it too early to make this type of prediction as there are many promising young kids he has drafted. Moore , Hall Carter and Wilson come to mind 

“2. Gase guy: Jets fans may not want to hear this, but former coach Adam Gase was instrumental in bringing Berrios to the Jets when he was cut by the Patriots in 2019. That can be his good legacy, kind of the way former coach Rich Kotite had receiver Wayne Chrebet (580 catches for 7,365 yards and 41 touchdowns over 11 seasons after being undrafted in 1995).“

[Bronx]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Adam Gase was a visionary

 

[RutgersJetFan]

The Jets are 13-36 since hiring him. We’re grading on something else than this? 

[JetsFanatic]

4 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

1. Draft

Trending up:  Wilson

Trending down:  Becton

Look like hits:  Hall, AVT, Moore, Carter, Carter II, Echols (at very least depth)

Look like misses:  Most of 2020 draft class aside from Becton, Hall, Mann and possibly A Davis (depth)

Want to see more:  Pinnock (at safety), 2 converted LBs, DT

 

2. Low Budget FA + Undrafted

Starters:  JFM, Berrios, Quincy Williams, Kickers

Depth:  Mike White, Huff, Guidry, Riley, Ty Johnson

 

3. Free Agency

Hits:  Fant, McGovern, Moses

Misses:  Rankins (he’s been bad), GVR, J Davis

Question Marks:  C Davis (down year + injury), C Lawson (very promising pre injury), Joyner (injury)

Note:  consider structure of contracts (eg, out clauses, dead money)

 

4. Trades

Hits:  LDT, Adams for 2 firsts +, Darnold for high 2nd & 4th + 6th, Herndon for upgrade to 4th

Decent:  A Lewis for 7th

Question Mark:  Leo Williams for 3rd & 5th

 

5. Coaching

Hit:  Fired Gase

Question Mark:  Saleh

 

My scores

1. Draft = B- (2021 is very promising W big upside; 2020 is the opposite)

2. Low Budget = A-.  Call him Thrifty Joe.  He’s done a nice job of identifying underutilized / undeveloped / or hidden talent in this bucket.  Gets dinged a bit on place kicker 

3. Free agency = B-.  He has followed his plan and has been superb at structuring contracts and avoiding crushing dead money.  But he doesn’t have enough hits on a team that desperately needs them.  Grade could be higher if not for injuries

4. Trades = A.  Thrifty Joe meet Trader Joe

5. Coaching = TBD.  Helping push Gase out and replacing with arguably the top HC  candidate in the market looked brilliant but jury obviously is still out on Saleh

Mann isnt a miss

[STLuLu]

I don't give a damn about his trades. So what? 7-9 at the end of 2019. 4-12 at the end of 2020. 4-13 at the end of this season. They say twice is a coincidence and three times is a pattern. He has a losing pattern and loses more games each year so why are all you Douglas' mistresses giving him good marks? 

[hawk]

36 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

Mann isnt a miss

I was thinking the same thing, but didn't say anything.  Not sure why he would be considered that.

[Jet Nut]

44 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

The Jets are 13-36 since hiring him. We’re grading on something else than this? 

If we have the capacity to look at the big picture.  Otherwise no

[CSNY]

1 hour ago, Saul Goodman said:

“2. Gase guy: Jets fans may not want to hear this, but former coach Adam Gase was instrumental in bringing Berrios to the Jets when he was cut by the Patriots in 2019. That can be his good legacy, kind of the way former coach Rich Kotite had receiver Wayne Chrebet (580 catches for 7,365 yards and 41 touchdowns over 11 seasons after being undrafted in 1995).“

Very Good for Gase. What this also suggests to me is that he was instrumental in the 2020 draft where most of the picks haven’t exactly panned out which was brought up by other posters  in different threads 
 

[Beerfish]

Right now Douglas is still John Idzik. 

Great job of setting the team up via trades value fa signings.

One terrible draft, one promising one.

He has to totally nail this next draft, anything less and the jets will not be relevant.

Aside from straight out missing on picks I am disturbed that he has failed to double dip in the strong areas of each draft he has been involved in.

Wr in his 1st draft, and oline in his 2nd draft.

Especially his 1st draft when many were screaming for more wr.  If he had picked another WR prospect in that draft instead of some of the scrub players he took the Mims pick would not look so terrible.

This coming draft, we desperately need TE, he needs to take two, no matter what he does in Fa  He also needs to double dip at LB and safety.

[Cut Jet Penalty Makers]

5 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Right now Douglas is still John Idzik. 

Great job of setting the team up via trades value fa signings.

One terrible draft, one promising one.

He has to totally nail this next draft, anything less and the jets will not be relevant.

Aside from straight out missing on picks I am disturbed that he has failed to double dip in the strong areas of each draft he has been involved in.

Wr in his 1st draft, and oline in his 2nd draft.

Especially his 1st draft when many were screaming for more wr.  If he had picked another WR prospect in that draft instead of some of the scrub players he took the Mims pick would not look so terrible.

This coming draft, we desperately need TE, he needs to take two, no matter what he does in Fa  He also needs to double dip at LB and safety.

Nailed it...the average well informed fan could have picked better in the 2020 draft than JD did...that's a fact and a damning indictment...many of those picks are incredibly bad and astonishingly so...JD almost never speaks publicly either...bad on him for that as well.  

[varjet]

A GM that controls the coach should only be evaluated on one thing-his team’s record.   

He can draft terribly but make up for it with FAs and coaching. 

The Jets have to be much better next year for JD to keep his job.  

[Hex]

10 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Joe Douglas is a legend. And will have this team competing for the playoffs next year. 
Thank you Joe! Thank you!!

Are you @Joe W. Namath's alt?

[kevinc855]

12 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Most of 2020 draft class aside from Becton,

Huh? becton? A good pick?