The Jets can win BIG with Mike White in 2023, provided a few things ..

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

9 minutes ago, slats said:

I stayed out of this conversation last week and I’m gonna leave it again, lol, but the Jets should’ve beaten the Vikings and White’s limitations are a primary reason that they didn’t. Team was good enough to get into the red zone frequently, while White was good for one TD in perfect conditions against a weak defense. 
 
I have no dislike for White and will be rooting for him to start and play well this week, but I do not see him as a long term solution. I think as teams get more tape on him, his limitations will come more into focus. 

Like I said, no disagreement in him having a big time arm.  Just that anticipation and accuracy go a long way.  He’s the opposite of Wilson in all 3 regards.

My son is not the fastest kid in the world (code for he’s very very average in speed) but he’s an excellent defender against really good competition because of his anticipation and field vision.

BTW- I think LaFLeur is most accountable for the Jets slow starts and problems in the red zone.  Some real head scratchers .. 

I’ll leave you screen grabs of Whites’a tight ass window throw against the Bears to Moore.

 

[56mehl56]

3 minutes ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

How did Kaepernick work out?  Niners would have had more success rolling with Smith for a few more years.  They got fooled by Kaepernick's Vick-effect which wore out real quick.  Andy Reid benching Smith for one of the greatest, young QBs the sport has seen is not a good comparison.  And how is the Trey Lance experience working out for San Fran?

So we sweep Mike White under the rug for who?  Are there any Patrick Mahomes clones lying around that I'm not aware of?

The same way the MW experience almost ended yesterday after the Milano hit.  Can't prove your worth if your injured. 

[Irish Jet]

4 minutes ago, slats said:

This thread is about next year. White is not under contract for next year. I’m all for him starting this week, and the rest of the season if that’s where his play leads, but they need a solution at QB, and White’s physical limitations will always make him a guy you want to upgrade from - like Alex Smith. And White doesn’t even have Smith’s athleticism. 

Alex Smith would be the best Jets QB since Pennington.

We're not exactly spoiled for choice for QB options. Given where we're drafting we're unlikely to take another swing or get a chance at a top prospect. 

I don't want any part of Brady. Carr and Garoppolo are potential options but will demand huge contracts that could be an albatross for years to come if things don't work out. I'm not sold on bringing White back as an undisputed starter but I'd definitely want him back - It certainly should be a higher priority than whatever they've planned with Zach. I'd sooner let White duke it out with a Bridgewater/Minshew type and let the better man play.

We're unlikely to find the long term answer next year one way or the other. 

[undertow]

4 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

A franchise QB is a player capable of putting the team on his back in pivotal situations.

A franchise QB doesn’t need a brick wall in front of him, a Top 5 backfield and a host of pro-bowlers at the skill positions just to appear competent.

A franchise QB should be able to consistently threaten all 3 levels of the defense.

I’d say there’s maybe 8-10 of them in the league at any given moment.

And to regularly compete for championships, you need one.

I don’t think Mike White is dogsh*t and has no place in the league. I think he looks like a high end backup in the mold of a Case Keenum, Teddy Bridgewater or Jacoby Brissett.

And that’s not the kind of QB I want to commit to as my starter for the foreseeable future.

Ok so name the franchise QBs in the league

[slats]

9 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

White will likely be their best option for 2023, but he’s got a heck of an audition for the jets and the rest of the nfl the next 4 weeks. 

We’ll see how the rest of the year plays out, but I suspect that the Jets’ only competitors for White’s services will be teams looking for a solid, reliable backup - much in the way the Eagles picked up Minshew this year. I don’t think anyone will be looking at him as their long term starter, and I don’t think the Jets should, either. 

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Alex Smith would be the best Jets QB since Pennington.

We're not exactly spoiled for choice for QB options. Given where we're drafting we're unlikely to take another swing or get a chance at a top prospect. 

I don't want any part of Brady. Carr and Garoppolo are potential options but will demand huge contracts that could be an albatross for years to come if things don't work out. I'm not sold on bringing White back as an undisputed starter but I'd definitely want him back - It certainly should be a higher priority than whatever they've planned with Zach. I'd sooner let White duke it out with a Bridgewater/Minshew type and let the better man play.

We're unlikely to find the long term answer next year one way or the other. 

If white returns, he’s the clear starter and wilson will have one more shot to prove his worth.  These next 4 games are huge for white, if he doesn’t play well that changes the plan.  But after having such terrible qb play the past 11+ years, I’ll take a decent game manager who (presumably) wins the games he should win.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

4 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

A franchise QB is a player capable of putting the team on his back in pivotal situations.

A franchise QB doesn’t need a brick wall in front of him, a Top 5 backfield and a host of pro-bowlers at the skill positions just to appear competent.

A franchise QB should be able to consistently threaten all 3 levels of the defense.

I’d say there’s maybe 8-10 of them in the league at any given moment.

And to regularly compete for championships, you need one.

I don’t think Mike White is dogsh*t and has no place in the league. I think he looks like a high end backup in the mold of a Case Keenum, Teddy Bridgewater or Jacoby Brissett.

And that’s not the kind of QB I want to commit to as my starter for the foreseeable future.

Definitely appreciate the thoughtful description over those who throw the term out in a way that implies they are so easy to find.

I too thought we needed a franchise QB to win the SB but my views are changing as the risk and cost continue to go up!

I’m all for Wilson competing for the opportunity to win the job next year since he has some of the physical attributes of a FQB.

But there is a long runway between high end backup to FQB and we disagree where White might fit in.  I don’t think he is elite.  Frankly, I still need to see a lot more tape and he has to show he can stay healthy to confirm my view he is a quality starter who can be relied upon.  
 

Question for you:  what is your plan to get the Jets a franchise QB as you described it?  Consider risk, costs and please don’t answer with a one word ‘Minshew’ because he isn’t that elite guy either.

[Irish Jet]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

If white returns, he’s the clear starter and wilson will have one more shot to prove his worth.  These next 4 games are huge for white, if he doesn’t play well that changes the plan.  But after having such terrible qb play the past 11+ years, I’ll take a decent game manager who (presumably) wins the games he should win.

Zach shouldn't even be a consideration right now - He should have to be lights out good in camp to merit getting a look. He's been terrible and the team despises him. 

Like Becton he'll only be here because he's under contract as a high pick, also due to some hypothetical ceiling we've never really seen evidence of. At least Becton occasionally flashed as a rookie. 

If White is brought back he should not be the only addition to the QB room imo. White has a lot more to show in the next four games, one way or the other we'll know a lot more about him, as will the rest of the league. His price is far from set. 

[Untouchable]

11 minutes ago, undertow said:

Ok so name the franchise QBs in the league

Okay, but it’s just going to be pretty much the same as everyone else’s list.

 

Patrick Mahomes

Josh Allen

Jalen Hurts

Tom Brady

Joe Burrow

Justin Herbert

Lamar Jackson

Aaron Rodgers

Trevor Lawrence 

 

With the exceptions of Brady and Rodgers, I’d sign up for the better part of a decade of any of those guys behind center right now.

[Irish Jet]

1 minute ago, Untouchable said:

Okay, but it’s just going to be pretty much the same as everyone else’s list.

 

Patrick Mahomes

Josh Allen

Jalen Hurts

Tom Brady

Joe Burrow

Justin Herbert

Lamar Jackson

Aaron Rodgers

Trevor Lawrence 

 

With the exceptions of Brady and Rodgers, I’d sign up for the better part of a decade of any of those guys behind center right now.

I think the bolded three are in a tier of their own tbh.

Hurts is great but like Tua I think his stats are inflated by an exceptional situation. Has by far the best line in football as well maybe the best group of WR's - He's a great piece for what they're doing though.

I like Lawrence more than most but he's done nothing yet to merit that sort of company. 

[Jet Nut]

Answer:  If the offensive stays healthy and it’s play improves.  

[THE BARON]

48 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

What’s your definition of franchise QB?

What is your plan for one?  Consider the Cap, cost and risk. 

A franchise QB is Mahommes, Joe Burrow, Justin Herbert, Jiosh Allen, Tua, Lamar, probably Trevor Lawrence who keeps getting better, Hurts and the old guys too... Stafford, Brady, Rodgers, 

As far as how do get one... That is a questions that even the best GM's have a hard time answering.  My own best solution is to keep a guy like Mike White on the roster and keep drafting a QB every single year until you find one. 

[Dunnie]

Definitely appreciate the thoughtful description over those who throw the term out in a way that implies they are so easy to find.
I too thought we needed a franchise QB to win the SB but my views are changing as the risk and cost continue to go up!
I’m all for Wilson competing for the opportunity to win the job next year since he has some of the physical attributes of a FQB.
But there is a long runway between high end backup to FQB and we disagree where White might fit in.  I don’t think he is elite.  Frankly, I still need to see a lot more tape and he has to show he can stay healthy to confirm my view he is a quality starter who can be relied upon.  
 
Question for you:  what is your plan to get the Jets a franchise QB as you described it?  Consider risk, costs and please don’t answer with a one word ‘Minshew’ because he isn’t that elite guy either.

I think you have to consider what the guy can do physically whoever that is.

I know I would not love Trent Dilfer as the Jets QB ... Even if he somehow got the team to the playoffs... Just being honest.

That style of play is not what I am looking for.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[bonkertons]

2 hours ago, Dunnie said:

I think we need a big bodied no. 2 that can catch with his hands .. win contested balls with consistency.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

 

See I'm not so sure.  I mean I guess a big bodied WR would be nice for red zone purposes but I think a Davis-type would bring a nice balance...maybe even Davis himself if we are willing to gamble on his health.  I don't see why the big red zone target can't be our TE.  Either way I think the weapons as-is are good enough to move down the field at will.  As far as getting into the end zone, I'm hoping a healthy and much improved OL, a healthy Hall and elite RB trio, as well as a legitimate threat at TE can change that.  

 

If you still want the big bodied guy, either develop Mims into that or replace him with someone else.  I think that's the route I'd go.

[Dunnie]

 
See I'm not so sure.  I mean I guess a big bodied WR would be nice for red zone purposes but I think a Davis-type would bring a nice balance...maybe even Davis himself if we are willing to gamble on his health.  I don't see why the big red zone target can't be our TE.  Either way I think the weapons as-is are good enough to move down the field at will.  As far as getting into the end zone, I'm hoping a healthy and much improved OL, a healthy Hall and elite RB trio, as well as a legitimate threat at TE can change that.  
 
If you still want the big bodied guy, either develop Mims into that or replace him with someone else.  I think that's the route I'd go.

I wish Mims would develop .. guy still is a body catcher after three years .. I don't know what is coming in the draft this year ... But I would love a Keyshawn, Brandon Marshall, DT, Amari Cooper type.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[T0mShane]

It’s not a cannon, certainly, but the idea that White is Brooks Bollinger is absurd. 
 

 

[Dunnie]

It’s not a cannon, certainly, but the idea that White is Brooks Bollinger is absurd. 
 
 

Totally agree .. White has a great spiral and lots of zip on the ball. Just not a deep thrower. It's really a nice thing to see in person.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[bonkertons]

10 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

A franchise QB is Mahommes, Joe Burrow, Justin Herbert, Jiosh Allen, Tua, Lamar, probably Trevor Lawrence who keeps getting better, Hurts and the old guys too... Stafford, Brady, Rodgers, 

As far as how do get one... That is a questions that even the best GM's have a hard time answering.  My own best solution is to keep a guy like Mike White on the roster and keep drafting a QB every single year until you find one. 

 

Only problem with the guys you mentioned, as far as the Jets are concerned, is that the vast majority of them were 1st rounders.  Hurts(2nd) and Brady(6th) are the only ones who weren't.  

 

After failing on a 3rd overall in 2018 and a 2nd overall in 2021(jury is still out but it's definitely trending that way), I have a hard time seeing this team spend another 1st on a QB for a while.  I think, like many have said, they'll most likely go the route of a veteran or try to get lucky with their own version of Hurts or Brady.  

 

One guy to keep an eye on though, IF the Jets really fall in love with him, is Anthony Richardson out of Florida.  Especially if we bring back White.  Richardson is the type of guy who will probably need a couple of years on the bench but the upside is massive.  Mocks have him moving up so he's probably looking at the late 1st at worst.  

 

Other than this though, if the guy isn't White OR Wilson, I think our best bet is Carr.  A dude right on the cusp, much like Stafford was for a long time before he was dealt.  In a good situation which is what I'd consider the Jets to be, he could reach that next level IMO.  No idea what the cost would be though to bring him in.

[Jetsfan80]

41 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

A franchise QB is a player capable of putting the team on his back in pivotal situations.

He's proven he can do this already.  He led a game-winning drive against the Vikings.  The ball was in Berrios' chest.  As has been said before:  Berrios catches that, the narrative on White is vastly different.

 He also did enough to compete with the Bills down the stretch yesterday.  With busted ribs no less.  That's Willis Reed sh*t that galvanizes a team.

 

41 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

A franchise QB doesn’t need a brick wall in front of him, a Top 5 backfield and a host of pro-bowlers at the skill positions just to appear competent.

And White has had this lately?  He's still been more than competent.

 

41 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

A franchise QB should be able to consistently threaten all 3 levels of the defense.

He doesn't have the strongest arm.  We get it.  He's still made quite a few solid deeper throws and 15-yard outs that a lot of other QBs can't make.

 

41 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

I’d say there’s maybe 8-10 of them in the league at any given moment.

Correct.

 

41 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

And to regularly compete for championships, you need one.

Also correct.

 

41 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

I don’t think Mike White is dogsh*t and has no place in the league. I think he looks like a high end backup in the mold of a Case Keenum, Teddy Bridgewater or Jacoby Brissett.

Massive undersell.  White is definitively better than those guys.

 

41 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

And that’s not the kind of QB I want to commit to as my starter for the foreseeable future.

I don't think all White supporters are suggesting a long-term contract needs to be given to White.  I'd be in support of a 2-3 year "show me" type deal or, if desperate, using the franchise tag.  We'll have plenty of cap space to make that happen.  

I'm also in favor of hedging our bets by adding Gardner Minshew and using a midround pick on a QB.

Who's your guy(s) in 2023 and beyond if not White?

[bonkertons]

8 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I wish Mims would develop .. guy still is a body catcher after three years .. I don't know what is coming in the draft this year ... But I would love a Keyshawn, Brandon Marshall, DT, Amari Cooper type.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk



 

I think Julio Jones could be a good target at this point in his career.  Maybe Equanimeous St Brown at 6'5 and having a solid year.  I'd personally rather go with a veteran if we're replacing Davis.  Draft a WR later to fill Mims' spot.  Thinking 3rd, 4th, 5th round.  Something like that.  

 

IMO I'd like to give Mims another year though, and I'd probably keep Davis at the end of the day.  Basically I don't think I'd change anything as far as our WRs go.  Would probably look to replace Berrios and our KR/PR before anything else, tbh.  Cutting him will save you $5M.  Would really depend on who you can get in the draft though.  I honestly have no idea who is out there that would fit his mold.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

Tom .. he's 1-2 .. thrown how many TDs over 3 games ? The possibility is still there that he's not the answer.

He's tough .. hasn't turned the ball over much, and has a very accurate short game.

Don't hate him .. but not blown away either.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

This is why the Berrios drop against Minnesota was such a killer. If that tiny piece of overpaid metrosexual trash holds on to the ball in that spot, the Mike White narrative is 180 degrees different. You can’t play the what-if game, but that one drop left a window open for people to completely discount what White is doing right now. Is he a franchise guy right now? No. Can he be? Most likely no. But is he likely the best and most logical option moving forward? I say, clearly. 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

This is why the Berrios drop against Minnesota was such a killer. If that tiny piece of overpaid metrosexual trash holds on to the ball in that spot, the Mike White narrative is 180 degrees different. You can’t play the what-if game, but that one drop left a window open for people to completely discount what White is doing right now. Is he a franchise guy right now? No. Can he be? Most likely no. But is he likely the best and most logical option moving forward? I say, clearly. 

Gold!

[Maynard13]

1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

So weaponzzzz ? 

Lets just say additional support. 

[Dunnie]

I don't think all White supporters are suggesting a long-term contract needs to be given to White.  I'd be in support of a 2-3 year "show me" type deal or, if desperate, using the franchise tag.  We'll have plenty of cap space to make that happen.  
I'm also in favor of hedging our bets by adding Gardner Minshew and using a midround pick on a QB.
Who's your guy(s) in 2023 and beyond if not White?

I don't think it's an undersell at all .. Mike White actually is a mirror of Bridgewater... I didn't even think of that until this post.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[slats]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This is why the Berrios drop against Minnesota was such a killer. If that tiny piece of overpaid metrosexual trash holds on to the ball in that spot, the Mike White narrative is 180 degrees different. You can’t play the what-if game, but that one drop left a window open for people to completely discount what White is doing right now. Is he a franchise guy right now? No. Can he be? Most likely no. But is he likely the best and most logical option moving forward? I say, clearly. 

It never should’ve come down to that play. A lot of points were left off the board in that game. That’s the narrative. Yes, hitting on a clutch play in the final seconds would’ve altered it, but that didn’t happen. And it’s not like we’re talking about a routine catch here. 

[bonkertons]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

It never should’ve come down to that play. A lot of points were left off the board in that game. That’s the narrative. Yes, hitting on a clutch play in the final seconds would’ve altered it, but that didn’t happen. And it’s not like we’re talking about a routine catch here. 

 

I mean, not being a perfect throw doesn't mean it wasn't a routine catch.  Not only did he get both of his hands on it, the dude cradled it into his gut.  

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

31 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’s not a cannon, certainly, but the idea that White is Brooks Bollinger is absurd. 
 

 

Exactly, exactly, exactly.  Btw- what is CPOE?

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

7 minutes ago, slats said:

It never should’ve come down to that play. A lot of points were left off the board in that game. That’s the narrative. Yes, hitting on a clutch play in the final seconds would’ve altered it, but that didn’t happen. And it’s not like we’re talking about a routine catch here. 

The play calling was horrible!  Horrible, horrible, horrible I tell ya!!

In my opinion, Mike LaFleur is just as big a question mark as Mike White.  We come out every game flat and refuse to go off script.  Let’s look at stats, we’ve scored 1 TD opening drive in like a full season.  

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Exactly, exactly, exactly.  Btw- what is CPOE?

Completion Percentage Over Expectation. Tight window throws

[56mehl56]

18 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This is why the Berrios drop against Minnesota was such a killer. If that tiny piece of overpaid metrosexual trash holds on to the ball in that spot, the Mike White narrative is 180 degrees different. You can’t play the what-if game, but that one drop left a window open for people to completely discount what White is doing right now. Is he a franchise guy right now? No. Can he be? Most likely no. But is he likely the best and most logical option moving forward? I say, clearly. 

But to be fair if your playing the what-if card for MW , then what if JFM didn't sashay into Mac Jones , we might not even be talking about MW at all. 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Completion Percentage Over Expectation. Tight window throws

Bam- that’s what we’re talking about.  Yet, in the face of tape and stats, they still go back to old narratives!

[T0mShane]

17 minutes ago, slats said:

It never should’ve come down to that play. A lot of points were left off the board in that game. That’s the narrative. Yes, hitting on a clutch play in the final seconds would’ve altered it, but that didn’t happen. And it’s not like we’re talking about a routine catch here. 

I agree that we should get a quarterback that doesn’t leave points off the board. Can you name one? 

[Jetsfan80]

20 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I don't think it's an undersell at all .. Mike White actually is a mirror of Bridgewater... I didn't even think of that until this post.

Teddy Bridgewater has two 300+ yard, 3+ TD games in his career, spanning from 2014-present.

Mike White has two 300+ yard, 3+ TD games in 6 starts.

[T0mShane]

14 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

But to be fair if your playing the what-if card for MW , then what if JFM didn't sashay into Mac Jones , we might not even be talking about MW at all. 

A little different, though. White sticking a pass in Berrios’s chest to potentially win the game vs JFM’s hit. That didn’t erase Zach sucking outright for weeks on end

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

19 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

The play calling was horrible!  Horrible, horrible, horrible I tell ya!!

In my opinion, Mike LaFleur is just as big a question mark as Mike White.  We come out every game flat and refuse to go off script.  Let’s look at stats, we’ve scored 1 TD opening drive in like a full season.  

LaFleur is probably the biggest issue with this offense right now. Becoming more and more clear.