Fields vs wilson

[Kleckineau]

Fields Schmields. The eternally stupid Jets were one needless end of season win away from having Trevor Lawrence. The very talented Fields style of play will likely result in a much shorter career.

[PepPep]

3 hours ago, kmnj said:

If the jets picked fields like many suggested the jets would have been in the playoffs and a fairly dangerous team once there . Do you have faith in Joe to get us the qb we need to compete? During his tenure picked Morgan Wilson White Joe F and Strev . I don’t have any confidence at all in Joe finding us a QB. I give Joe tons of credit for some guys he got last draft but his Wilson pick cost 3-5 years 

Shoulda, coulda, woulda. 

The fact is that approaching the draft most believed that Fields was the 4th best QB in the draft class behind TL, Zach and Lance. 

Of course there were some GMs pounding the table for Fields. But in general, that was the order. Its not like JD took some crazy outlier QB. The consensus once all the pre-draft analysis was done was THAT order. 

JD drafted 2 QBs. One of whom was a 4th round pick and very much a wild card (Morgan).

Wilson is JD's big whiff. That happens. Tough to swallow. I know. Although I doubt it, I still think Wilson can turn things around. As bad as he looks, he's got a ton of talent, he's 23 and going into his 3rd year- so who knows.   

As far as Flacco. He was a proven entity and has nothing to do with whether or not JD can 'scout a QB' or 'fix the QB position' or anything like that. He is a vet who was brought in to mentor Zach. I'm pretty much convinced of that. I don't think JD was banking on him to come in and win meaningful games. To be fair- THAT was a mistake. 

As far as Strev and White, these are UDFAs. For an UDFA White is pretty much a HR. Strev is a classic PS guy. Borderline irrelevant to this conversation. You don't look for your future starting QB from the guys you bring into the PS. That's not really what they are there for.  

So yes, I have plenty of confidence JD can either A. Bring in a legit vet via FA or B. Eventually draft a good QB. 

Not sure if we will ever get a Pat Mahomes or Josh Allen. That isn't always up to the GM. Those guys don't grow on trees. And developing a QB is another story. That has to do with coaching. But yes, I believe JD is capable of scouting a talented QB who's not a 'bust'. 

[DoubleDecker]

Both of them are not good

[Stark]

3 hours ago, JiFields said:

Agreed, if we had a superstar like Fields who can score at any second in the blink of an eye and would be awesome in this passing game, he fits it perfectly, we'd be in the playoffs talking Super Bowl but instead, we're talking about rumors that Woody Johnson wants the offensive staff fired for failing mega bust Zach Wilson.

Lets fire the entire staff.... Benton did well with a crap, ass injured Line.

MLF, while he didn't make great adjustments we have video proof of WR's running wide a$s open and our QB's just don't see them or throw them.

We need a QB and a little bit of luck on the injury front.

 

Breece and AVT coming back will help alot. Mitchell was decent and if Becton plays anything close to his rookie year we ok. Becton is a huge ? for sure, and I expect JD to still invest in the line .

 

Zachenberg is a trash QB, eye test and stats both confirm it. waste of time if the FO is going to try to "save" him. I don't think they will 

[k-met57]

1 hour ago, Zachtomims47 said:

And then you'd still be looking for QB. Sounds like no mans land.

Jimmy G is better then every QB in that draft minus Trevor Lawrence PROBABLY (btw i am not a Jimmy G fan).

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Just now, k-met57 said:

Jimmy G is better then every QB in that draft minus Trevor Lawrence PROBABLY (btw i am not a Jimmy G fan).

He would end up playing 12 games total in 2 years and we'd be wondering what to do at QB the following year. 

[THE BARON]

3 hours ago, Esquire said:

I think Wilson is afraid of the pass rush and as a result he misses easy passes and throws interceptions.  

I don't think it is fear that causes Wilson's problems.  He throws bad passes even when he is not under pressure.  That includes a simple screen or swing pass.  His problem is his field vision and above all, fundamentals.  You can also see that in his college tape as well.  He was a hit a and miss QB, with more hit than miss in college.  Against professional defenses, he is more miss than hit as the speed of the game and quality of the defenders exposes his flaws.

He is too far off the mark to ever evolve into a good NFL QB.

 

[ScarletKnight89]

I liked Fields coming out but I haven't seen him develop at all as a passer in the NFL. I'm glad the Jets didn't draft him. He's already being given rest days his 2nd year into the league. He's not a long term option at QB unless he drastically improves from the pocket.

[PepPep]

3 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

Fields Schmields. The eternally stupid Jets were one needless end of season win away from having Trevor Lawrence. The very talented Fields style of play will likely result in a much shorter career.

Cool. Lets keep rehashing how we won a game.

Newsflash. Players don't tank. Coaches don't tank. There is zero guarantee that we would have won the 'TL' sweepstakes and frankly no guarantee that he would have turned out to be a star (this is why GM's typically don't tank). 

Talking about how we missed out on TL by winning a game two years later is pathetic.  

[JustInFudge]

50 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

Please explain Andrew Luck 

Are you talking about the Andrew Luck who entered the league w/ Bruce Arians developing him his rookie season throwing to HOF'er Reggie Wayne and his #2 being T.Y. Hilton?   The Andrew Luck that completed 53% of his passes and threw 18 picks?  That Andrew Luck? 

 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

I have no idea what Fields WILL BE in this league. But one thing that I do know is guys that have a tendency to leave the pocket as much as he does, tend to have shortened and injury prone careers. Look at what Lamar Jackson is now. Look at what Kyler Murray is now. Jalen Hurts has shown the same proclivity. Injury prone and not reliable to start 16 games. And Wilson fits that bill too. 

Again, I was a big Fields advocate. pre-draft also.

My biggest concern with this offense (and QB talent is a HUGE one), is the offensive coordination. Players seem unprepared. Assignments are continually missed. And except for a brief 3-4 games in early, mid season, the play calling string did not seem to have any cohesion.

One play never seemed to set up the next play. MLF was hamstrung for sure by Wilson, and would rarely open a drive with a pass, because we know jitters  and yips, but there just was no seeming of setting up a defense. 

Rant over.

 

Honestly, I'm not sure if I ever seen a QB drafted into a worse situation than Fields (maybe David Carr),  I do know I've never seen a QB drafted into that bad of a situation and still perform the way he did, I dont really care about the aesthetics.  There is no difference to me how the balls get down field or into the endzone.   And there is research out there QB's are more likely to get injured in the pocket, than outside.  Every one of Lamar's injuries, have come inside the pocket.  All I know is, if he were our QB, I'd be wetting my pants w/ excitement about his future. 

Here is one of those not so fun facts if you're a Jets fan:

Justin Fields accounted for 25 TD's this year.

The New York Jets entire offense, scored 28 TD's this year. 

[August]

We’d have to build an offense around him. MLF and co seems married to their system. 

[kmnj]

44 minutes ago, JiFields said:

Honestly, I'm not sure if I ever seen a QB drafted into a worse situation than Fields (maybe David Carr),  I do know I've never seen a QB drafted into that bad of a situation and still perform the way he did, I dont really care about the aesthetics.  There is no difference to me how the balls get down field or into the endzone.   And there is research out there QB's are more likely to get injured in the pocket, than outside.  Every one of Lamar's injuries, have come inside the pocket.  All I know is, if he were our QB, I'd be wetting my pants w/ excitement about his future. 

Here is one of those not so fun facts if you're a Jets fan:

Justin Fields accounted for 25 TD's this year.

The New York Jets entire offense, scored 28 TD's this year. 

yep and he has trash wrs-I saw his wrs cost him two games with dropped touchdowns

Fields is a stud if people dont see that they are crazy-saw the same comments from people about allen-wait  until fields has legit wrs around him he will be just that more dangerous-he will probably get hopkins and a rookie for next year 

[Beerfish]

Fields is awful at the things required to be a good QB in this league.  Weird sooooooo many people (including national media experts) acutally think he has progressed or is any good.   He ran for a bunch of yards this year but he is not remotely as good of a passer as lamar jackson and lamar ain't all that strictly passing.

[kmnj]

1 hour ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

I liked Fields coming out but I haven't seen him develop at all as a passer in the NFL. I'm glad the Jets didn't draft him. He's already being given rest days his 2nd year into the league. He's not a long term option at QB unless he drastically improves from the pocket.

same thing was said about allen then he got diggs and  davis and  things changed fast -seriously the bears wrs are beyond trash

[ScarletKnight89]

Just now, kmnj said:

same thing was said about allen then he got diggs and  davis and  things changed fast -seriously the bears wrs are beyond trash

They are. And I would assume at some point he will get real receivers and get a chance to prove he can do it. Until I see it though, I remain a skeptic. 

[kmnj]

Just now, Beerfish said:

Fields is awful at the things required to be a good QB in this league.  Weird sooooooo many people (including national media experts) acutally think he has progressed or is any good.   He ran for a bunch of yards this year but he is not remotely as good of a passer as lamar jackson and lamar ain't all that strictly passing.

fields is good at scoring touch downs and will improve with weapons

your post above is exactly what people said about Josh Allen   early on

[kmnj]

9 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

They are. And I would assume at some point he will get real receivers and get a chance to prove he can do it. Until I see it though, I remain a skeptic. 

that is fair but his upside and his current floor is miles ahead of zach-i would to disgusting unforgivable things to get fields instead of zach at this point

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

Fields reminds me of Lamar’s first season. More of a runner than a passer. But he has a beautiful deep throw. I think fields will continue to develop and improve while continuing to use his legs as a weapon. I actually think fields has more upside as a passer than Lamar.
 

also you have to consider fields weapons. He had no o line, and his best receiver was who? Some scrub named darnell Mooney. Just wait until he has some talent around him. Bears have a lot of cap space and will give him weapons this off-season.  (if they don’t trade him and take young) 
 

fields was drafted into a horrible situation but is making the most of it and improving every week. Zach Wilson is the exact opposite. Was dealt a solid hand and has gotten worse

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Kleckineau said:

Fields Schmields. The eternally stupid Jets were one needless end of season win away from having Trevor Lawrence. The very talented Fields style of play will likely result in a much shorter career.

The most devastating Jets game in recent memory was a win. That basically sums up Jets fandom right there.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Just now, jgb said:

The most devastating Jets game in recent memory was a win. That basically sums up Jets fandom right there.

werent you assuring us all offseason TL was a complete bust?

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

werent you assuring us all offseason TL was a complete bust?

The exact opposite and was called a hypocrite by the Nauvoo Legion for not proclaiming him a bust as well as BYU.

[JustInFudge]

12 minutes ago, kmnj said:

yep and he has trash wrs-I saw his wrs cost him two games with dropped touchdowns

Fields is a stud if people dont see that they are crazy-saw the same comments from people about allen-wait  until fields has legit wrs around him he will be just that more dangerous-he will probably get hopkins and a rookie for next year 

Incredible right?  To do what he did in that situation is so rare.  Dude had as many TD's as our entire team, while missing games, mind you.  lmfao  And dudes are like, yeah but he's not good at things that matter.  lol 

Imagine how over the moon the Jets would be and how out of control this board would be if Zach Wilson improved in every single measurable passing category, being in the same air as Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Jackson in TD% and also just ya know, went out and accomplished something no QB has ever accomplished in the history of the NFL.  

 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

11 minutes ago, jgb said:

The exact opposite and was called a hypocrite by the Nauvoo Legion for not proclaiming him a bust as well as BYU.

[Charlie Brown]

5 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

2 games with over 200 yards passing this year. he is hardly a polished, finished product.

I liked Fields also at the draft. But he is not a certainty at this time. And I am unsure what this offensive coordination unit would have done with him. 

I too wanted Fields but would the staff have developed him properly, I am not sure....

Would Fields have made the OC run more play for WC Moore, the TEs and less for Berrios?  Again I am not sure and I loved Fields coming out!

[JustInFudge]

11 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Fields reminds me of Lamar’s first season. More of a runner than a passer. But he has a beautiful deep throw. I think fields will continue to develop and improve while continuing to use his legs as a weapon. I actually think fields has more upside as a passer than Lamar.
 

also you have to consider fields weapons. He had no o line, and his best receiver was who? Some scrub named darnell Mooney. Just wait until he has some talent around him. Bears have a lot of cap space and will give him weapons this off-season.  (if they don’t trade him and take young) 
 

fields was drafted into a horrible situation but is making the most of it and improving every week. Zach Wilson is the exact opposite. Was dealt a solid hand and has gotten worse

And it goes beyond the lack of talent and being on the worst offense in the entire league.  Since he was drafted, they fired their GM and that GM hired a completely new rookie staff.  A first time HC who comes from the defensive side who hired a first time OC who was a passing game coordinator in Green Bay ie; getting Aaron Rodgers ayahuasca.

The sad part of this situation is, he's perfect for this offense.  If you go look at what he did at Ohio St. when was elite from the pocket, it was all these timing routes that requires ball placement for yac, 1 or 2 read one side of the field and let it rip.  Stuff nobody on this team does.  lol  but the stuff we've seen is open often in this system.  And Fields ball placement is ridiculously good.  He'd legit fit perfectly, he already has next level rapport w/ G. Wilson and then when the OL is playing like doodoo, his legs are the Xfactor.

 

 

 

[jgb]

7 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

[BurntDice]

1 hour ago, JiFields said:

Are you talking about the Andrew Luck who entered the league w/ Bruce Arians developing him his rookie season throwing to HOF'er Reggie Wayne and his #2 being T.Y. Hilton?   The Andrew Luck that completed 53% of his passes and threw 18 picks?  That Andrew Luck? 

 

I thought we were taking about Fields impossible !!!! Year 2? It’s never happened before!!! 
 

In lucks second year Arians wasn’t on the team. Wayne was an old man and a shell of his former self. Hilton was a second year guy and didn’t start to turn into what he’s known as. The OL was a bottom 3 unit. 
 

Luck single handily won then games. With fields and his magical season they ended up with the first pick in the draft. What a success he was!

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

I thought we were taking about Fields impossible !!!! Year 2? It’s never happened before!!! 
 

In lucks second year Arians wasn’t on the team. Wayne was an old man and a shell of his former self. Hilton was a second year guy and didn’t start to turn into what he’s known as. The OL was a bottom 3 unit. 
 

Luck single handily won then games. With fiends and his magical season they ended up with the first pick in the draft. What a success he was!

I have no idea what this silly strawman has to do with anything I said.

Luck was awesome, who said different and what does that have do w/ Fields having a historic season and doing something no QB has ever done under terrible circumstances? 

[BurntDice]

Just now, JiFields said:

I have no idea what tis silly strawman has to do with anything I said.

Luck was awesome, who said different and what does that have do w/ Fields have historic season and doing something no QB has ever done under terrible circumstances? 

The bold is what I’m talking about. Fields isn’t some unicorn. Luck WON games with a terrible roster around him and played very well.
 

Fields couldn’t. He has high rushing yards, but that’s the only redeeming factor for him. Lots of sacks, Lots of fumbles/ints for his attempts. Low passing yards. Very few wins. If you haven’t noticed when a team is winning the D softens up and allows chunks of yards. This happens all the time. Bortles is a prime example. He had pretty good stats because the team was constantly losing and most of his production came when they were down late 

[jgb]

Fields is flawed but nevertheless vastly superior because defenses have to respect at least something that he does on a football field.

[Hex]

2 hours ago, Kleckineau said:

Fields Schmields. The eternally stupid Jets were one needless end of season win away from having Trevor Lawrence. The very talented Fields style of play will likely result in a much shorter career.

Actually the Jets needed to go 0-16 to get Lawrence due to Jag's easier strength of schedule. 2 wins away.

[Paradis]

6 hours ago, mrcoops said:

I loved Justin Fields pre-draft, and wanted the Jets to pick him.

But he's not any more proven as an actual QB than Wilson is.  Much more dangerous as a weapon but, as a passer, the jury remains out.

Neither guy looks like a winner from the pocket, where most upper-tier NFL QBs really set themselves apart.

Not wrong per say -- but the *asterisk here that makes comparing the two non-sensical is the talent on the two teams.

Zach looked bad mostly with talent... imagine what he would have looked liked in CHI... Vice versa. Fields is still a project, but may have had more success throwing to Wilson/Moore & Co.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

Do some of you really want to die on the Fields hill?  He has not shown that he is an NFL caliber passer.  

[JustInFudge]

33 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

The bold is what I’m talking about. Fields isn’t some unicorn. Luck WON games with a terrible roster around him and played very well.
 

Fields couldn’t. He has high rushing yards, but that’s the only redeeming factor for him. Lots of sacks, Lots of fumbles/ints for his attempts. Low passing yards. Very few wins. If you haven’t noticed when a team is winning the D softens up and allows chunks of yards. This happens all the time. Bortles is a prime example. He had pretty good stats because the team was constantly losing and most of his production came when they were down late 

Still confused by this strawman,  Andrew Luck being great at Football has nothing to do w/ Justin Fields being great at Football.  And I'm sorry but to act like their situations were even remotely the same is bonkers dude but I digress.  Still a meaningless comparison that has nothing to do w/ Justin Fields having a historic season.  And to look at W's and L's in this scenario is just a silly exercise of futility. 

Nothing Fields was doing was garbage time.  Go look at his splits, he was best in the 1st and 3rd quarter.  In fact, a lot of his picks game in the 4th quarter on meaningless drives trying to force the issue because his team sucked so bad they couldnt even get open when D's were playing soft and his OL was losing to 3 man rushes.