Cimini: Locker room is grumbling about Wilson, team is close to imploding

[Matt39]

9 minutes ago, DireJet said:

You know who the locker room never grumbled about? Mike ******* White. 

Jets finally had a QB who showed flashes and they just threw it away like they were somehow too good for Mike White. This is the karma Woody deserves. Absolute ******* clown show. 

Does Mike White have a rich Uncle? 

[SoFlaJets]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Jets jumped all the way to Pick 7 on PFN’s draft machine. Dropped to a six-win projection in Austin Mock’s (The Athletic) model. At Pick 11 on PFF’s mocks. 

12-5 TS, 12-5, yes, the New York Jets

[Rich Thornburgh]

On 9/27/2023 at 2:59 AM, TuscanyTile2 said:

That's probably because they haven't seen Siemian or Boyle yet.

2 years ago Siemien threw for 11tds 3ints with 58% completion percentage.  If Zach had those stats you guys would be building a wing for him in Canton

[Rich Thornburgh]

55 minutes ago, DireJet said:

You know who the locker room never grumbled about? Mike ******* White. 

Jets finally had a QB who showed flashes and they just threw it away like they were somehow too good for Mike White. This is the karma Woody deserves. Absolute ******* clown show. 

 

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, DonCorleone said:

 

 

*** NARRATOR ***

"But Zach would NOT respond and 'start slinging'.  In fact....."

[Jetsfan80]

45 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

 

 

One of these is a legitimate QB in the NFL and the other is not.  I won't spoil the surprise on which one is which.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

One of these is a legitimate QB in the NFL and the other is not.  I won't spoil the surprise on which one is which.

White throws with rhythm and timing.

It’s simple:  make your drop, see it, throw it, ball is out on time.

Whereas Wilson thinks his job is to play Houdini on every play.

The WRs have no clue when or where the ball might get flung.

Impossible to run an offense that way. 

White’s eyes are always downfield.

Wilson’s eyes are on the rush, trying to run or go fetal to protect himself from taking any hits.

[Larz]

 

56 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

One of these is a legitimate QB in the NFL and the other is not.  I won't spoil the surprise on which one is which.

I could score in that offense. Quite still can’t avoid a hit or take a hit. That’s why he didn’t get any starting jobs when he was available 

[Jetluv58]

3 hours ago, SoFlaJets said:

who cares 58, we only have him (IF he plays) for 2 seasons, and maybe having a guy who knows the game and what he's looking at out there may even help him see things in a way that he doesn't. It's called having some humility

I agree with you, I’m just saying, I wonder if a concern of the CS, GM, Woody is that hiring Cousins or another serious QB candidate might anger Rodgers. I’m all for getting the best QB we can now before we bail on the season.

[Green Ghost]

On 9/26/2023 at 9:08 PM, TuscanyTile2 said:

So we have 14 games left and it sounds like the following is on the menu:

Infighting

Zach benched

More infighting when the team realizes that Siemian and Boyle are both far worse than Zach.

A complete tire fire when the defense eventually gives up and the Dolphins put up 73 on us. 

GW and Breece both demand trades.

The fans call for JD and Saleh's heads.

Caleb Williams announces he's staying at USC for his senior year

Aaron Rodgers realizes that even he is in over his head with trying to pick up the pieces of this godforsaken franchise and retires.

Adam Gase rehired.

Everyone of these issues comes back to the fact that Zach Wilson is on this roster.

You reap what you sow.

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

One of these is a legitimate QB in the NFL and the other is not.  I won't spoil the surprise on which one is which.

Not fair, someone huff and puffed running by zach 🤣

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

2 hours ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

 

LOL

For the ZW-loving stat heads out there:

MFW vs Dolphins

2/2 68 yd 1 TD

34.0 YPA

100% completion rate

158.3 passer rating

100 QBR

[Matt39]

23 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

LOL

For the ZW-loving stat heads out there:

MFW vs Dolphins

2/2 68 yd 1 TD

34.0 YPA

100% completion rate

158.3 passer rating

100 QBR

Mike White was certainly not the solution as a long term starter. But he was the clear backup. Joe a Douglas knew this. Zach is all Woody. 

[LockeJET]

3 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Does Mike White have a rich Uncle? 

Rich Aunt. Vanna White. 

[Green Ghost]

On 9/26/2023 at 9:45 PM, southparkcpa said:

Im 60….  When my kids were young in the 90s, i had the game on while I did other stuff, id pop in for a score, unfortunately saw the Dennis Byrd tragedy etc. In 98, during that miraculous run, my kids were like…”Dad, youre gonna watch football????” “You like the Jets????”   The 90s was tough but this is unfukking bearable. 

It sucks that they’ve driven a fan like you to this point. Even when this began going downhill 12 years ago, you always posted about how much you enjoyed watching the game at that Jets bar up in Charlotte. Now you don’t even want to watch from home.

This organization, FO, CS all stink like dead fish.

[Jet_Engine1]

14 hours ago, Guilhermezmc said:

Its gotta be a FO or owner thing, its impossible to think that any coach would risk their job after seeing what Zach Wilson puts on tape.

 

[Green Ghost]

On 9/26/2023 at 11:09 PM, #27TheDominator said:

Cousins would be a rental.  He is a free agent.  Rodgers isn't retiring they can let him walk and get a comp pick.  I think that is part of the 3rd round chatter.  He would probably net a 3rd in 2025.

I don’t know the answer to this, but in that case, wouldn’t the Vikings get that same 3rd round pick if they let him walk?

If that’s the case, and they’d get a 3rd by keeping him all season, why wouldn’t they hold out for at least a second round pick?

[Jets Things]

54 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Mike White was certainly not the solution as a long term starter. But he was the clear backup. Joe a Douglas knew this. Zach is all Woody. 

Are you Italian?

[sackdance]

On 9/26/2023 at 8:53 PM, Barton said:

Literally nobody on the roster wants Zach to be the starting QB. Nobody. 

Did you take a poll or something?

The mistake the Jets made was keeping Zach around as backup. That's it. 

[varjet]

26 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

I don’t know the answer to this, but in that case, wouldn’t the Vikings get that same 3rd round pick if they let him walk?

If that’s the case, and they’d get a 3rd by keeping him all season, why wouldn’t they hold out for at least a second round pick?

Good point.  The Vikings would get a 3rd round pick in 2025.  The Jets would offer a third round pick in 2024.   In the big picture, that is not a terrible rental price for the Jets, but that only gives them a first round pick in in the 2024 draft, and less money for FAs.  Trading for Rodgers is not consistent with a 2024 all in on Rodgers again.  I agree with not trading for Rodgers.

Siemian and ultimately someone else better than Zach and cheap to keep the offense developing are not terrible ideas. 

[BornJetsFan1983]

3 hours ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

2 years ago Siemien threw for 11tds 3ints with 58% completion percentage.  If Zach had those stats you guys would be building a wing for him in Canton

I was not hot on the qb at first but honestly if he can just throw ot open guys say 1/5 of the time he is 1000 time sbetter and we score at least twice a game. if not more. Sign me up

[#27TheDominator]

27 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

I don’t know the answer to this, but in that case, wouldn’t the Vikings get that same 3rd round pick if they let him walk?

If that’s the case, and they’d get a 3rd by keeping him all season, why wouldn’t they hold out for at least a second round pick?

1. I think this and the fact they aren't tanking is why they aren't moving him.

2. Yes, but the 3rd round comp is basically an early 4th, while the Jets 3rd looks to be early 3rd.  It also would be in 2024, while they comp pick would not be until 2025.  That swing amounts to close to 2 full rounds of value. 

3. They can insist on a 2nd, but I doubt anybody would bite.  It would have to be somebody looking to sign him long-term and trying to get a leg up.  We don't even have a 2nd and are probably the current most likely suitor.  If they want something.  Something guaranteed and something earlier that they can use now, they will have to pull the trigger, but presumably closer to the deadline.  Of course if we are sitting at 1-6 or 2-5, why would we bother.  There are risks both ways.  

I don't think this is likely, but I suppose this is the rationale.

[football guy]

22 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

So far this season, Cook and Breece have faced 8+ men in the box 28 % and 26.9 % of the time, respectively, per Next Gen.  That seems pretty high to me.  Not on the level of Derrick Henry (51 %) or Dameon Pierce (35) but still quite high.

By comparison, the likes of James Cook (9 %), Raheem Mostert (14.6) and Tony Pollard (17.7) have it much easier.

When you have an elite or very good QB, teams won't load the box. When you have an elite run game and/or average-or-worse QB, teams will. 

Breece Hall has 2 electrifying runs, otherwise he isn't getting much done on the ground. Dalvin Cook has done nothing on the ground. 

Dameon Pierce has been playing with 3-4 backup OL every game and dealing with a loaded box 35% of the time, yet he's been more productive than Breece and Dalvin on a down-to-down basis. That should not be the case- both are better than he is and I really like Pierce. I haven't totally seen what's going on with the run blocking, but I suspect that a lot of it has to do with some of the guys up front being off by split seconds. Hopefully it gets corrected like it did last year, but without the injuries 

[JiFtheOracle]

Can we do a swapsies for Dameon Pierce and Dalvin Cook?  Because I'd do that in a nanosecond.  Cook sucks donkey balls. 

[mudcat22]

Not sure why Boyle is on team?  If he couldn't beat out Wilson, why even give him a PS spot?

[football guy]

22 hours ago, bitonti said:

Rex Ryan and Damien woody made a comment these Jetst don't have a consistent play to hang their hat on 

Is it outside zone? Is it duo? Rex said on his teams they ran power 20x a game 

We know the offense has no motion because Rodgers makes the play call at the line essentially. 

It feels like the run game problem is less about the line (which isn't great) and more about these garbage system that Hackett and Keith Carter are running 

Mike LAfleur was a decent OC believe it or not 

I think the run game has a lot to do with timing. Guys playing out of place or were rested often in training camp aren't fully up to speed. I also think the Jets tried to manage the reps of OL whether it be giving guys off days, snap restrictions, or playing people in different spots to the point where these guys don't have great chemistry. Brown didn't play at all during training camp/pre-season and Becton didn't play a whole lot at RT until late. AVT missed time. Tomlinson missed time. Now Becton is at LT, AVT at RT. Should that be an excuse for not being more effective? No, but when you're run game is outside zone and reliant on timing and position of OL, one misstep can ruin a play 

 

As far as motion, I know that we'll see some more RPO but remains to be seen if we reintroduce it. My guess is there will be more motion usage post-bye, especially when they find ways to get Hardman involved in the offense. 

[football guy]

22 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

I actually think LaFleur could be a(nother) lowkey star coach they scapegoated and will come to regret canning.

After year 1 Saleh was telling reporters they were prepping Calabrese for OC since they figured LaFleur would end up getting poached eventually as a HC candidate.

Puka Nacua literally broke NFL records and the waif WR they drafted is finally producing in year 3 under Mikey.

This stat was produced under LaFleur:

ZW was always the problem, not the OC.

 

There's no doubt that MLF can be a good coach when it comes to scheme and play design. I think those were his best attributes. His problems - which is the case with many from the Shanahan tree - are that he is stubborn/unwilling to mold his scheme around the players strengths and from a personality standpoint is not a very good teacher; it was "do this" without any context, which the modern player doesn't really respond to well. They want to know why they're doing it, which is not something LaFleur was willing to teach 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

There's no doubt that MLF can be a good coach when it comes to scheme and play design. I think those were his best attributes. His problems - which is the case with many from the Shanahan tree - are that he is stubborn/unwilling to mold his scheme around the players strengths and from a personality standpoint is not a very good teacher; it was "do this" without any context, which the modern player doesn't really respond to well. They want to know why they're doing it, which is not something LaFleur was willing to teach 

This was my sense all along, that LaFleur has a good football mind but maybe not the best “people skills”.

(That one trick play with Berrios he came up with was a thing of beauty.

He coached MFW to an historic 400+ yard performance in his 1st career start.)

I think he tried his best to make it work with ZW but eventually got worn out and made it clear to Saleh (and maybe to Douglas as well) in no uncertain terms that MW was the better option.

JD took this personally and basically forced Saleh to fire his buddy.

Hackett seems incapable of molding anything.

We’ve seen very little RPO and no designed runs over 3 games, things ZW can do better than being a traditional dropback passer.

You’ve played the game at this level.

What is your honest evaluation of Zach Wilson?

Don’t you think the team needs to move on already?

[Butcher]

On 9/26/2023 at 8:59 PM, EM31 said:

They are frozen in place to some extent because Aaron Rogers says that he wants to come back next year.  Who knows maybe Rogers decides to get pissed off with "how poorly Zack has been treated".  

Unfortunately,  Zack is not a NFL QB, it's that simple!!!  He acts more like a 12 year old compared to a real QB!  And it's horrible that the Jets went down this road trusting in Zach.  They are morons for that move after seeing what last season brought us.  OK, keep Zach, but based on reality you are taking a huge chance .....so obviously  after watching tape of Zach last year these bozo's go out and trade Mike White ????

In one respect the Jets are getting what they asked for.  When Zach left you with so many unanswered questions from last year you decide this is your backup solution to saving your season due to a very weak offensive line????   Just another massive screw up!!!

 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

keys to saving the season:

1) Cut Zach

2) Fire Saleh

3) Promote Riverboat Ron to interim HC

[Butcher]

3 hours ago, sackdance said:

Did you take a poll or something?

The mistake the Jets made was keeping Zach around as backup. That's it. 

Totally agree!!!

 Unfortunately,  Zack is not a NFL QB, it's that simple!!!  He acts more like a 12 year old compared to a real QB!  And it's horrible that the Jets went down this road trusting in Zach.  Someone is a huge MORON for this move after seeing what last season brought us.  OK, keep Zach, but based on reality you are taking a huge chance .....so obviously  after watching tape of Zach last year these bozo's go out and trade MFW????   Whomever decided to pull this trigger and trade MFW, after ZW horrible results from last season, hopefully gets freak'n FIRED!!!   Because they are clearly a walking idiot to the highest level to say the least!!!

In one respect the Jets are getting what they asked for.  When Zach left you with so many unanswered questions from last year you decide this is your backup solution to saving your season due to a very weak offensive line????   Which is another massive screw up!!!

[Butcher]

On 9/26/2023 at 9:11 PM, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

The biggest mistake this off-season wasn’t getting Rodgers, it was not getting a viable backup.

Completely irrational logic since we were told Zach needed to sit a year.  Zach as our primary backup made no sense, especially with a 39 year old starting QB behind an unproven line on a team that hasn’t had a QB start a complete season since Fitz in 2015.

JD failed here.  Big time.

But let’s not give Saleh a pass.  We know the Jets make group decisions and value the feedback loop from the Coaches to the GM.

And now we are in a position of weakness where our choices are limited and weak.  

And if it’s Woody, then JD and Saleh should have the balls to stand up to their boss, articulating the multitude of reasons why Zach as #2 was the wrong choice

1. 7 losses in last 8 games

2. Fractured locker room

3. Joke of the NFL

Complete ineptitude and lots of blame at every corner of our leadership room.  

Totally agree!!!

 Unfortunately,  Zack is not a NFL QB, it's that simple!!!  He acts more like a 12 year old compared to a real QB!  And it's horrible that the Jets went down this road trusting in Zach.  Someone is a huge MORON for this move after seeing what last season brought us.  OK, keep Zach, but based on reality you are taking a huge chance .....so obviously  after watching tape of Zach last year these bozo's go out and trade Mike White ????   Whomever decided to pull this trigger and trade MFW, after ZW horrible results from last season, hopefully gets freak'n FIRED!!!   Because they are clearly a walking idiot to the highest level to say the least level!!!

In one respect the Jets are getting what they asked for.  When Zach left you with so many unanswered questions from last year you decide this is your backup solution to saving your season due to a very weak offensive line????   Which is another massive screw up!!!

[Bronx]

 

 

[T0mShane]

12 hours ago, derp said:

We’ll see how it plays out, but I think an important layer here is that that usually this happens for the Jets when the draft doesn’t line up with needs and this year the tippy top of the draft is all franchise cornerstone type offensive players.

And if the morale is truly as bad as it seems, it’s a great time for them to reset and pitch GM and HC candidates on taking over a roster with a top five pick, Garrett Wilson, Breece Hall, AVT, Sauce, Q, a bunch of other nice defensive pieces.

Rodgers is either a fly in the ointment there or helps really sell it. He’s an asset if he steps into the right role.

I don’t know if I’ve pieced all of this together for myself before, but I believe that at least to some extent the Jets continue to have bad coaches and GM’s because the job always sucks by the time they fire someone so they consistently pull in the third to sixth best candidate any given cycle - and surprisingly that guy doesn’t move the needle in a positive way. Then he fails and the merry go round continues.

I’d love for them to not give these guys every last inch of leeway to prove without a shadow of the doubt that they can’t do the job. This team is completely reeling, it falls on both to some extent, and they’ve made mistakes before. Cut bait while you can still sell the jobs and not after they’ve spent multiple years destroying future assets trying to get off the hot seat.

I’m torn because while I secretly think moving on from Saleh and Rodgers would provide the least catastrophic path forward, I don’t want to end up with a top three pick because I’ve banned myself from having opinions on draft-eligible quarterbacks and it’d freeze me out of participating in our draft content

[doitny]

12 hours ago, derp said:

We’ll see how it plays out, but I think an important layer here is that that usually this happens for the Jets when the draft doesn’t line up with needs and this year the tippy top of the draft is all franchise cornerstone type offensive players.

And if the morale is truly as bad as it seems, it’s a great time for them to reset and pitch GM and HC candidates on taking over a roster with a top five pick, Garrett Wilson, Breece Hall, AVT, Sauce, Q, a bunch of other nice defensive pieces.

Rodgers is either a fly in the ointment there or helps really sell it. He’s an asset if he steps into the right role.

I don’t know if I’ve pieced all of this together for myself before, but I believe that at least to some extent the Jets continue to have bad coaches and GM’s because the job always sucks by the time they fire someone so they consistently pull in the third to sixth best candidate any given cycle - and surprisingly that guy doesn’t move the needle in a positive way. Then he fails and the merry go round continues.

I’d love for them to not give these guys every last inch of leeway to prove without a shadow of the doubt that they can’t do the job. This team is completely reeling, it falls on both to some extent, and they’ve made mistakes before. Cut bait while you can still sell the jobs and not after they’ve spent multiple years destroying future assets trying to get off the hot seat.

i dont think you will get a good HC or GM candidate as long as Rodgers is here. he is only here for one year and then hes gone. but for that one year he is going to be the GM. no good HC or GM is going to want to have Rodgers have so much say. look how it killed us this year. 

plus Rodgers is going to want Hackett to stay. so your going to force a new HC to take Hackett? 

or worst case scenario is Rodgers forces Woody to hire Hackett as HC.

i think everyone stays until Rodgers goes. and that i think will be best for us.