McDonald was the Unsung Hero

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Drafting too heavily for need is how you end up taking Victor Hobson.  Or use a 2nd round pick on Mike Nugent.

The one thing the actually need to draft now is another qb to develop.

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Drafting too heavily for need is how you end up taking Victor Hobson.  Or use a 2nd round pick on Mike Nugent.

Drafting too heavily for potential is how you get Zach Wilson, Sam Darnold, Vernon Gholston and DeWayne Robertson.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

The one thing the actually need to draft now is another qb to develop.

Agreed.

The lesson is this:  If you think a guy is special, and ideally plays a premium position, you take him.  Even if it isn't a "position of need".

The draft is supposed to be about thinking 4-5 years ahead.  Having a small collection of elite talent and a few other long-term helpful guys to build a core.  Not taking an unathletic slot receiver Rd 1 because you "need a WR".

[AFJF]

48 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

We keep going round and round on this.  Your preference is noted.  Who did you want?  Put a name on it?  JSN has done very little to date.  He and Flowers are kind of slot only options and I don't think that is what we are looking for.  Particularly at 15.  Quintin Johnston is the one big bodied guy sitting there and he has been pretty terrible.  In a high level offense with Herbert he has 12 catches for 114/0 on 21 targets.  I guess Addison looks like the hindsight pick, but a short armed quick WR without play strength isn't something I am getting excited about at 15 either.  It would be nice to have another weapon, but it probably isn't moving the needle on this team.  The better argument would probably be for Puka Nacua or Josh Downs later on, but that loses the cache of complaining about McDonald.  Also, at that point you have to give them a chance to develop - like our UDFA who may be contributors as the year goes on.

Rodgers traditionally shreds rookies and uses his wacky complicated hand signals to get guys open that would be close to impossible for rookies to discern while Lazard, Cobb and Taylor have been in the system for years and succeeded.  Something did change.  The QB.  He got hurt.  You can complain about going in for an old guy that would get hurt, or signing Cook instead of a receiver (or at all in my case), but you can't act like they went into the season planning on this being their offense. 

JSN is on a roster that's loaded with receivers so has less value and fewer opportunities there than he would here.

Since getting some looks over the past two weeks he's found the end zone twice including the game winner yesterday.

Prior to the start of yesterday's games he was 10th in the NFL in separation per route run.  Not among rookie wideouts, but among all wide receivers.  

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Drafting too heavily for potential is how you get Zach Wilson, Sam Darnold, Vernon Gholston and DeWayne Robertson.

That's fair.  And you can also add Mims and probably Becton to that list - JD was clearly looking for the next Jonathan Ogden with that pick. 

But the kind of "potential" Joe Douglas looks for, aside from Zach (which was just an awful, awful mistake) is different than the kind of "potential" prior GMs have looked for.  Legitimately athletic guys with translatable NFL skills is always a good approach.

Problem with Zach is he really isn't "athletic" at all....

[Bobby816]

Finally he did something. Hope he builds off of it. Hopefully we trade Lawson and he can see more snaps in passing situations. I'd love to see Huff, JJ, Q, Jefferson and Mac going after the QB on obvious pass plays.

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Agreed.

The lesson is this:  If you think a guy is special, and ideally plays a premium position, you take him.  Even if it isn't a "position of need".

The draft is supposed to be about thinking 4-5 years ahead.  Having a small collection of elite talent and a few other long-term helpful guys to build a core.  Not taking an unathletic slot receiver Rd 1 because you "need a WR".

It’s hard to envision that first rounder not being used for a tackle at this point, which would allow becton to go back to RT where he belongs.  Unless this team absolutely implodes and winds up with a top 10 pick somehow, they’re probably going OT somewhere in the middle of round 1.  But with that 3rd rounder they should invest in a qb, get rid of wilson and bring in a better backup with the anticipation that rodgers will miss at least some games next year and they’ll need better qbing if they want to advance in the playoffs. 

[GreenFish]

Great play. Dare I say, “breakout game”. 👀

 

[usanyj]

2 hours ago, Kleckineau said:

Curious, since you said you could careless, how much lesscould you care?

GOAT comment

[Hex]

14 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That's fair.  And you can also add Mims and probably Becton to that list - JD was clearly looking for the next Jonathan Ogden with that pick. 

But the kind of "potential" Joe Douglas looks for, aside from Zach (which was just an awful, awful mistake) is different than the kind of "potential" prior GMs have looked for.  Legitimately athletic guys with translatable NFL skills is always a good approach.

Problem with Zach is he really isn't "athletic" at all....

To be fair on JD, Zach looked athletic in college and in scouting.

[Jetkwondo]

2 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

While our punter Morstead was the MVP, Will McDonald with his penetration up the middle disrupted Gano and forced the miss. 

Was just watching a video on Morstead talking about the vibe of this team from training camp and when asked if anybody is standing out to him he only mentions one player who he feels can step up and be a leader of ST's  and that's McDonald. He said he's interesting being a #1 who's interested in learning and it's important to him which many guy's drafted that high would say "I'm not here for that" but McDonald is different and he told him that... 

Love that you tee'd up those 2 as I tend to root heavily for the unselfish guys who don't always get the recognition they deserve. McDonald is contributing in doing what's asked of him now and his time will come when more is put on his plate... Morestead,  That dude is a great human being and my new favorite Jet!

[Scott Dierking]

29 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Let me repeat:  it's not about JSN specifically, it's more conceptual, about how one builds a team and prioritizes needs.

So, draft a WR no matter who it is and just hope production becomes, because, WR?

 

[Scott Dierking]

39 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Prior to the start of yesterday's games he was 10th in the NFL in separation per route run.  Not among rookie wideouts, but among all wide receivers.  

All this separation that he is generating, exactly who is covering him in that LOS flat area? Linebackers? Because that is exactly where the majority of his routes are run, a few yards down field. These "next gen stats" are fine, but they should be taken with context.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

33 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

The one thing the actually need to draft now is another qb to develop.

Disagree, strongly, the one thing they actually need to do is get someone in the building who knows what they are doing at QB. They don't have that. Letting this same clown show draft another one is another huge waste of time. Expecting a different result doing the same stupid sh*t over and over again, is, insane. QBs are not lottery picks, they are the result of knowing what you are looking at, understanding their strenghts and weaknesses, devleoping a system around their strenghts, and trying to develop their weaknesses. Our nitwits have zero ability to do any of that

[Warfish]

8 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

So, draft a WR no matter who it is and just hope production becomes, because, WR?

Argumentum ad absurdum.

No, that is not my opinion.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

2 hours ago, slats said:

There have been a few derisive comments about his car jumping ability around here, but he clearly put those skills to use on that play. 

Ha, guilty as charged 😊😃

Credit though to him and to Boyer for deploying him in the most optimal manner.

[Scott Dierking]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Argumentum ad absurdum.

No, that is not my opinion.

It kind of is, unless I am misunderstanding you. Your claim seems to be that the Jets should have taken a WR at 15. You just said that you advocated for JSN at that spot, but not necessarily JSN at that spot (ok???).

Let's cut to brass tacks here, Who specifically did you want at 15, with the great benefit of hindsight?

[OilfieldJet]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Again, can only speak for me:

My ire is less about MacDonald, and more about JD and priorities.  WR (IMO) was a huge need in our draft, despite all the "Well, we had Davis tho" talk.  This fanbase loathed Davis, almost everyone here wanted him gone for cap space and we were all shocked he wasn't waived to get it.  Lazard has very much disappointed so far.  Cobb is an old non-entity waiting for his bro to come back, and Hardman is gone already.  The two rookies, very much TBD on real pro potential at WR.

So all this was known at the draft, we all knew our O was one of the worst in the NFL in 2022, and our D was one of the best in 2022.  The only unknown (which should IMO have been known by our GM) was that Davis was thinking about retirement.  But that shouldn't have mattered because Davis should have been waived to start with!

WR was a huge need then, and reading this board now, it's clear WR remains a huge need now.

As little faith as I have in Zach Wilson, he deserved better than this WR group.  Regardless of if one liked JSN, or one of the other WR's in that class, a WR was so much more of a need than a D-end we could apparently afford to sit most of the season, it's just painful.

And here we are again, one of the worst offenses in the NFL, with a top Defense again.  

At some point, something has to change.

Very well said.

[AFJF]

7 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

All this separation that he is generating, exactly who is covering him in that LOS flat area? Linebackers? Because that is exactly where the majority of his routes are run, a few yards down field. These "nest gen stats" are fine, but they should be taken with context.

Only one chart available and it was from last week but given his skill set, I would expect very low average depth with very high separation.  This was the primary reason I wanted him as the pick.  His lateral quickness and agility off the LOS was far better than any other receiver in his class.  The whole idea would be to get him on quick hitters and let him make guys miss, which is what he did on the game winning TD yesterday.  Caught it behind the LOS if I'm not mistaken, used his blockers and juked defenders on his way to the end zone.

[RevisIsland610]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

I know there was already a thread discussing the distinction between jumping the snapper and the gap, but @RichCimini even says that he "leaps the snapper."  That's a penalty now.

I believe it's a penalty if you touch the snapper but it looked like he jumped right over him and didn't touch him. 

[Warfish]

6 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

It kind of is, unless I am misunderstanding you.

You're misunderstanding me.

6 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Your claim seems to be that the Jets should have taken a WR at 15. You just said that you advocated for JSN at that spot, but not necessarily JSN at that spot (ok???).

I would have taken JSM at that spot.  I would not have taken MacDonald at that spot.

That is not the same argument as "draft a WR no matter who it is and just hope production becomes, because, WR"

6 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Let's cut to brass tacks here, Who specifically did you want at 15, with the great benefit of hindsight?

Without the benefit of hindsight, I was a strong supporter of picking JSN at that spot.  

For others who believe a different WR would have been better, they're free to have desired to take that WR wherever they wish.

As noted, my conceptual issue is ignoring a clear (IMO) need-to-win-now at WR for a guy that was not going to contribute in a win-now season.

[Scott Dierking]

10 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Only one chart available and it was from last week but given his skill set, I would expect very low average depth with very high separation.  This was the primary reason I wanted him as the pick.  His lateral quickness and agility off the LOS was far better than any other receiver in his class.  The whole idea would be to get him on quick hitters and let him make guys miss, which is what he did on the game winning TD yesterday.  Caught it behind the LOS if I'm not mistaken, used his blockers and juked defenders on his way to the end zone.

There is no doubt that his "quicks" and agility are off the chart. He just seems very "raw" in terms of downfield WR talents for a WR and is not that physical (which you can get away at the college level). Those deficiencies, along with only playing 1 year and nursing a hamstring injury for 4 months are thre primary reasons I have been so down on him as a 1st round choice. I may be proven incorrectly, as I often am.

[Flashlite80]

3 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

 

Ridiculous athleticism 

Most amazing play on a FG I have ever seen.  He is a freak.  He will be another Bryce Huff soon.

[JiFtheOracle]

48 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Only one chart available and it was from last week but given his skill set, I would expect very low average depth with very high separation.  This was the primary reason I wanted him as the pick.  His lateral quickness and agility off the LOS was far better than any other receiver in his class.  The whole idea would be to get him on quick hitters and let him make guys miss, which is what he did on the game winning TD yesterday.  Caught it behind the LOS if I'm not mistaken, used his blockers and juked defenders on his way to the end zone.

lmfao, he juked nobody and made nobody miss.  Once again, he was uncovered and then ran fast to the sideline untouched and got a block that was 100% a hold to help him get into the endzone.  I know you want to pat yourself on the back here...but my man...lol

[JiFtheOracle]

40 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

There is no doubt that his "quicks" and agility are off the chart. He just seems very "raw" in terms of downfield WR talents for a WR and is not that physical (which you can get away at the college level). Those deficiencies, along with only playing 1 year and nursing a hamstring injury for 4 months are thre primary reasons I have been so down on him as a 1st round choice. I may be proven incorrectly, as I often am.

This boards obsession w/ this guy is bizarre, especially when he cant hold Flowers or Addison's jock.  Just weird.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

JSN is on a roster that's loaded with receivers so has less value and fewer opportunities there than he would here.

Since getting some looks over the past two weeks he's found the end zone twice including the game winner yesterday.

Prior to the start of yesterday's games he was 10th in the NFL in separation per route run.  Not among rookie wideouts, but among all wide receivers.  

That is one way to look at it.  Another way to look at it is that JSN has not produced much on a mid-tier offense with a mid-tier QB.  Why do would he produce here with our bottom of the barrel offense with a bottom of the barrel QB?  How is Seattle "loaded?"  They have Metcalf and Lockett.  After that they have street FA Jake Bobo and Dee Eskridge who they like so much he has spent almost the entire season suspended for "personal conduct."  JSN is basically a starter at slot and plays more than half the snaps.  His lack of production is probably mostly the result of young receivers taking some time.  Exactly the reason that saying we should have drafted a receiver seems misguided to me. 

[jetsfan4life72]

Would be great to let him get a few downs in a row to see if he can string a few moves together.  He can't be worse than JFM losing containment and the QB getting an automatic 7+ yards.

[32EBoozer]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

WR (IMO) was a huge need in our draft,

😴

[UnknownJetFan]

3 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

Amazing that guy could do that but the defensive coaches can’t figure out how to stunt him to get that athletic guy to the qb

It is just with the way Huff and JJ are playing with JFM also on the outside on many plays it is likely hard for getting McDonald in the defensive line rotation from the outside for very many plays. Keep in mind Jets lead the league in pressures, so who are you going to take off the field that may decrease that value. Quite honestly from what I saw during our 3 game losing streak we likely win at least 1 of those games had they not forced Lawson back into the starting lineup since before and after that we had much better pressure as Lawsons snaps were taking away snaps from much better edge rushers. If we need to give our best edge guys a rest to keep them fresh fine, but at this point we don’t have much if anymore margin for error to be developing anyone with the next 4+ games against AFC and division opponents or we will be out of the playoff race real fast. For those going to Monday night’s game be real loud and lets get our pass rush to rattle Herbert since we need that AFC game bad and the Chargers are one if the teams we need the tiebreaker over.

[Rhg1084]

 

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Drafting too heavily for potential is how you get Zach Wilson, Sam Darnold, Vernon Gholston and DeWayne Robertson.

and Christian Hackenberg 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

McD blocking it and running back for a TD would have been epic.

Would have been reminiscent of the Joe Pisarcik Herm Edwards play.

[slimjasi]

14 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

McD blocking it and running back for a TD would have been epic.

Would have been reminiscent of the Joe Pisarcik Herm Edwards play.

I thought he was gonna block it in real time when I saw him get into the backfield so quickly 

[Saul Goodman]

When in doubt, go with an offensive player over defense. Not a tough concept. The teams with top offenses have performed better than the top defensive teams for a couple decades now, with few exceptions. And we do have a defensive minded coach, so less resources should go into that unit anyways.

On McDonald specifically, I actually think Joe W Namath is right - he’s needs to get bigger and stronger in the off-season and he’ll be producing next year. He definitely has talent. 

[AFJF]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Where's @AFJF's breakout thread???

So once the ball is snapped, you believe the kicker takes a look and scans the D-line before the kick to look for anyone leaping over the O-line?  This is a thing that you believe happens?