The real reason Zach hasn’t panned out?

[Jet_Engine1]

36 minutes ago, Jetkwondo said:

And my daughter's grand master in TKD, who is a big Raiders fan, told me last night that Zack Wilson will rebound and win against his team going on the Raiders normal track record ... We almost got into a good natured disagreement about who would blow it as I said his team is playing with a new freedom to win while we play tight and not to lose... pathetic "trash talking"... lol

Funny thing is the grand master also told me the Jets just need Zach Wilson to be Trent Dilfer after Rodgers went down week 1, and guess what, that's almost exactly the way Zach has been playing although with half the TD's and Int's as Dilfer had that season. Only problem is our D is very good but they are not as dominating as the Ravens were that year.

There's some really good analysis of breaking down Zack and this organization's questionable moves which unfortunately this team has to live with right now. I predict only more questioning in the days ahead, with of course the hope that we open up things and play faster and live with the interceptions that may come with letting Zach rip it like in the KC game. 

 

Is, uh, Trent Dilfer available?

[Jetsfan80]

47 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Because they weren't good enough to overcome bad circumstances. I'm not saying either guy is a perennial Pro Bowler if not for the Jets but I think situation is important to a young QB.

Darnold is a flawed player but I think in the right circumstances he can be okay. If Purdy were to go out long term, for instance, I think there's a strong possibility he plays well. Hell, I legitimately think Darnold was starting to turn a corner under Jeremy Bates and would have been better if we didn't completely fail in hiring Gase.

Geno's immaturity killed him but what he's done is Seattle is clearly what he's capable of doing in the league. Frankly, Geno is an argument in support of what I'm saying not against.

Both of those guys walked into really tough circumstances. How much better would they have been on another team? We don't know, obviously, but the point is they were set up to fail here and you would have had to have been a total stud to make it as QB of the 2013-14 Jets or 2018-20 Jets.

Wilson was set up to succeed pretty well IMO. He just sucks.

Should have just stopped with “they weren’t good enough”

[UntouchableCrew]

33 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Should have just stopped with “they weren’t good enough”

I mean, take as simplistic a view as you’d like.

[bitonti]

7 hours ago, Creepy Lurker said:

The Jets, whose desperately needed a QB, are too smart for this. 

The Jets wanted to have their cake and eat it too

the statement used to be "eat their cake and have it too," but I guess people liked this better 

either way the Jets wanted to keep Zach and also take pressure off Zach so they bring in Aaron to mentor him and give him a redshirt year or two to magically get better.  And then Rodgers gracefully retires right at the moment Zach is ready. 

It was just the worst, most wishful-thinking plan ever.

Game theorists could write PhD dissertations on what was the worst aspect of this decision. Was it Aaron's age? For me yes but a close second is that everyone knows NFL players only get better by playing in real game

A player's skills don't develop on the bench, they stagnate or decline.  and you can't develop a QB in preseason alone. Sooner or later they have to take their lumps. 

This is Zach "Developing" taking check downs in garbage time rather than throwing his 4th INT. It's improvement but it's so slow. His fans whatever are left treat him like a rookie. He's in his third season and he's still just awful. 

[Rangers9]

Eli Manning spent time with Zach before the game on Monday and both him and Peyton commented a lot on him for MNF. I didn't see the broadcast I was at the game. They said the Jets CS is too conservative with him and won't allow him to do some of the basics. Their philosophy is the defense can carry them. They said they should allow him to air it out I agree what do they have to lose. The defense was very good on MNF and the Jets weren't close to winning, They also said he throws the ball too quick to running backs on check downs not giving them enough room with defenders to make a play. They said that's very fixable but you'd think with about 30 starts he'd have learned that by now. 

[Jet_Engine1]

Wilson hasn't panned out because he is not good at playing QB, and time will not help that.

[sec101row23]

I was told by numerous people around here Pre-draft,  that since Zach can throw side arm and off platform and since Patrick Mahomes can also throw side arm and off platform, that Zach would be the next Patrick Mahomes.   

[BigRy56]

Give him some time to develop. God damn 

[Ron Rico]

Does anybody else remember the thread about trading Dak Prescott for Sack Wilson? It was either 2021 or last year, not sure but there was definitely a multi-page thread on it. I wish I could find it. 

There were people posting "no way, I don't want Dak, he sucks" LOL

[rex-n-effect]

ZW has issues mentally and with basics of the game that seem like they should be fixable. The team has not done the best job assessing his problems and coming up with solutions. 

IMO the real crisis is not that ZW sucks and they move on, but what is the plan to deal with breaking the cycle of bad picks and/or inability to develop QBs? It's not particular personnel or draft picks because this happens regime after regime and pick after pick. It's not a good plan to catch an aging vet every 10-15 years hoping to catch lightning in a bottle for a couple years. 

[More Cowbell]

5 hours ago, Claymation said:

Did the Jets trade two 2nds to get Rodgers? The Jets were moving on, and this cursed franchise had worse case scenario happen.

I think it was one 2nd

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

1 hour ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Wilson hasn't panned out because he is not good at playing QB, and time will not help that.

He looks like he doesn’t even give a sh-t in these interviews after losses.

With Sauce and GW and basically everyone else, you can tell how they take the losses personally.

ZW stands there grinning like an idiot when they ask him why he’s sucked so bad for so long.

[The Crusherer]

Bottom of the league coaching

worst OLine in the sport

Garbage can weapons outside of 1 receiver and 1 running back

[freestater]

Like my old boss used to say about my golf game, Zach's problem is with his loft.

Lack Of F***ing Talent.

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I mean, take as simplistic a view as you’d like.

Better than jumping through hoops just to come back to the same conclusion:  That no matter how much the Jets helped those QBs, they'd still suck.  Move on to the next one.  

[UntouchableCrew]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Better than jumping through hoops just to come back to the same conclusion:  That no matter how much the Jets helped those QBs, they'd still suck.  Move on to the next one.  

So, to be clear, you don't think situation influences a QBs ultimate outcome at all?

You believe that if the Jets had drafted Josh Allen (a guy you called a RB for his first two years in the NFL) he'd be a superstar franchise QB right now?

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

So, to be clear, you don't think situation influences a QBs ultimate outcome at all?

You believe that if the Jets had drafted Josh Allen (a guy you called a RB for his first two years in the NFL) he'd be a superstar franchise QB right now?

Never said that.  Only that circumstances don't mean nearly as much as a QB's DNA.  If a QB is a slow processor, circumstances will never "fix him" or be much more than lipstick on a pig.  Rest assured that if Sam Darnold ever gets a shot in SF, basically the best possible location he can be, he will be an inferior option to Brock Purdy and it will be fairly clear that that is the case.

If any old QB could be molded into greatness or even an above average starter by his circumstances, then coaches would be paid a lot more than QBs are, and teams wouldn't devote all the resources they do into QB prospect evaluation.

Not to mention:  QBs tend to get drafted by bad teams.  That's the price you pay for being a top/high pick.  Guys like Stafford, Cam Newton, Herbert, Burrow, Trevor Lawrence, CJ Stroud, etc etc have shined in this league in spite of that.

[Grandy]

He's an overthinker with poor instinct, simple as that.

There's a reason why he does so much better in situations where he just has to shut up and throw. He just can't get out of his head and handle an NFL offense under normal circumstances. He has no cool, and he can't lock it in. He's not decisive. He lets it all get to him.

[Jet_Engine1]

1 hour ago, The Crusherer said:

Bottom of the league coaching

worst OLine in the sport

Garbage can weapons outside of 1 receiver and 1 running back

So, who were you yesterday?

[Ron Rico]

17 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

So, who were you yesterday?

The same POS he is today.

[Greg555]

1 hour ago, The Crusherer said:

Bottom of the league coaching

worst OLine in the sport

Garbage can weapons outside of 1 receiver and 1 running back

You’re not far off.  I’m giving Zach one more start before bailing on him.  However..given what you’ve itemized above..I don’t think turning to another QB will make a difference.   Sad state of affairs.

[Ron Rico]

1 minute ago, Greg555 said:

  I’m giving Zach one more start before bailing on him.  

One more start? He's starting the 2024 season. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

I blame Dee Milliner.

Its somehow his fault or anybody other than ZW himself.

[Ecuadorian Jet]

20 hours ago, wediditjoe said:

After the 2021 draft I came to this here board with a question, which in reality was more of a concern. The question was: what makes anyone think the Jets will be able to properly develop another QB prospect? After countless draft picks and a carousel of coaches over 10+ years what is different about Saleh etc that will be able to make ZW successful?

The most consistent answer by a large margin at the time was the hiring of Gregg Knapp. A super valid answer in my opinion. We all know what happened after that (RIP). It’s not really ever talked about either. I really wonder how things would’ve turned out. Knapp was the only veteran coach they had and he was supposed to be a QB whisperer. ZW then got left with 2 rookie coaches and he supposedly was incredibly tight with Knapp.

Crazy to think about and really kind of eerie when thought about in terms of a Jets curse. Also I don’t think this is the only reason for ZW’s struggles, but it is interesting to consider.

All of us who were against picking Zach pointed out all the problems, and all of (the royal) you who were so adamant about Wilson and his 49ers offense preference should change your avatar name to "I am an idiot".

We, and I really mean, I, pointed out how ridiculouls was to pick a QB with such poor competition and who only shone in the crazy 2020 season. 

Then, it was ridiculous to have a rookie head coach with a rookie OC with a rookie QB.

Then, it was ridiculous to start him depite everyone knowing he wasn't ready.

Then, it was ridiculous not to have a competent veteran QB starter. 

Then, it was stupid to do it all over again in year 2.

Then, it was beyond idiotic to do it all over again in year 3.

Wilson can sometimes be an ok backup, and that is ok.....he has millions beyond what most of us will ever get. He deserves that for what he negotiated and because someone thought he should get paid as much. That is not his fault. Starting every week is not his fault either. 

The idiots that keep making these decisions are the only ones at fault. 

[Beerfish]

16 hours ago, bitonti said:

He's not better than fields 

That dude ran for 1000 yards last year 

And won like 2 games.

Justin Fields career wins: 6, win % .194

Lousy Zach career wins:  11, wins % .379

Fields 27 ints, 115 sacks, 32 fumbles

lousy zach: 23 ints, 98 sacks, 14 fumbles

Zach is bad, Fields is just about as bad.   As you state he runs better, that is about it.  Most other things he is as bad or worse.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

And won like 2 games.

Justin Fields career wins: 6, win % .194

Lousy Zach career wins:  11, wins % .379

Fields 27 ints, 115 sacks, 32 fumbles

lousy zach: 23 ints, 98 sacks, 14 fumbles

Zach is bad, Fields is just about as bad.   As you state he runs better, that is about it.  Most other things he is as bad or worse.

Still trying to argue team wins are a legitimate QB stat?

Yikes.

[Beerfish]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Still trying to argue team wins are a legitimate QB stat?

Yikes.

You are right wins do not matter in the national football league.   PFF stats however do get you to the super bowl!

Tally ho!

[Jetsplayer21]

17 hours ago, K_O_Brien said:

It's a couple of things. 

Yes, the Jets can not develop QBs. Partly, this is down to coaching. The Jets seem averse to appointing anything other than meat-headed, risk averse defensive head coaches. It's like we are still stuck in the 1970s. The one time we did appoint an offensive guy, was Adam Gaze who was a borderline sociopath. 

The other issue is we struggle at evaluating rookie QBs in the first place. The guys we do take generally fail elsewhere after their initial stint with the Jets. 

So we don't know what we are looking at before we draft a QB and we don't know what to do with them, when we do. 

We now have to wait at least another 14 months before we clean house, and try again. 

 

 

I wouldn’t blame the jets for giving up on drafting qbs. Go with rodgers yr or 2, then just get a proven average qb.

2 career jags had their best seasons with jets. Sadly these 2 had the 2 most productive qb years looking back at decades of jet qb play.

who can name them ?

 

[Dunnie]

Does anybody else remember the thread about trading Dak Prescott for Sack Wilson? It was either 2021 or last year, not sure but there was definitely a multi-page thread on it. I wish I could find it. 
There were people posting "no way, I don't want Dak, he sucks" LOL

I was one of them ... And I don't shy away from being wrong

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[neckdemon]

On 11/9/2023 at 12:40 AM, David Harris said:

Knapp was a big deal.

But it was probably more being overdrafted in a COVID restricted year. Weirdly, he’s actually better than Lance and Fields. 

i don't even like field as a qb really but he is a lot better than zach so far. 

[Dunnie]

i don't even like field as a qb really but he is a lot better than zach so far. 

Well He is a better RB than Zach... I'll give him that.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[neckdemon]

54 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Well He is a better RB than Zach... I'll give him that.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

he also has a higher completion percentage and td/int ratio. neither has been very good, but fields has been better

[Barton]

Make no mistake about it, the jets did not have a coherent intelligent strategy to develop Zach. Same thing with darnold. Green QBs thrown into the fire with defensive head coaches and terrible rosters. That’s not a recipe for success. So you guys really think the jets would have developed mahomes, Josh Allen or Trevor Lawrence into the guys they are today? Be serious. 

[Matt39]

15 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

He looks like he doesn’t even give a sh-t in these interviews after losses.

With Sauce and GW and basically everyone else, you can tell how they take the losses personally.

ZW stands there grinning like an idiot when they ask him why he’s sucked so bad for so long.

That’s because he doesn’t think it’s a big deal. His life doesn’t change if the football thing doesn’t pan out. The Jets didn’t do their homework or Woody just said we’re taking him no matter what. There was zero chance this kid would fit in a locker room and end up growing up during his rookie deal.

[Xtina]

On 11/8/2023 at 10:55 PM, ACourseinMiracles said:

His vestigial tail.

Not sure why that would interfere