NFL.com| Gholston's rookie struggles tell cautionary combine tale

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

http://www.nfl.com/combine/story?id=09000d5d80ec673c&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Since the 1995 NFL Scouting Combine when Mike Mamula turned heads with his spectacular workouts but upset stomachs with his eventual pro career, the Boston College defensive end/linebacker has served as the primary, cautionary combine tale. The lesson stressed was for teams to be leery of falling in love with collegiate players in shorts who fanatically prep for and then shine in Indianapolis.

It is a piece of their job interview, not the total picture, teams reminded themselves. Look deeper. Look for that innate football passion. Gauge and link it all with game video that does not lie and on-field production in pads that is measurable.

Mamula still frequently strikes that kind of conversation among NFL personnel executives and scouts, especially when the combine arrives.

New York Jets linebacker Vernon Gholston does not seek to replace Mamula as that guy, that example, the freshest reminder. But based on his riveting 2008 combine and his undistinguished rookie season that followed, in some circles, he already has.

"Safe to say," said one long-time NFL personnel executive last week, requesting anonymity, "that Vernon Gholston is the bust of the 2008 draft."

Harsh. And given the fact that Gholston is only 23, left Ohio State as a junior, missed early offseason work a year ago because of his class obligations with the Buckeyes, was moved from aligning as a college down defensive end to a pro stand-up linebacker, was part of a struggling Jets defense overall and has a new defensive-minded head coach (Rex Ryan) and new scheme, it is too early to define Gholston as a bust.

Michael Conroy / Associated Press

At 6-foot-3, 266-pounds, Vernon Gholston wowed at the combine with his strength, speed and athleticism.

Gholston's 2008 combine performance

40-yard dash 20 10 Bench Vertical

4.65 seconds 2.65 1.53 37 reps 35

[JustInFudge]

The article touched on it a little bit, but they didnt get into it enough. HC numbnuts put this guy in a very unnatural position and made it basically impossible for him to have an impact his rookie year especially missing the OTA's.

Im not high on Gholston and never was, but to ask him to be a read and react player is flat out stupidty. He knows one thing, attack the Qb.

Good thing is, Ryan has already recognized that and is seemingly looking to change that.

Bad thing is, the comments coming out of the locker room. You never want to hear Vets saying that he seems like he doesnt care about Football. Hopefully, this will light a fire under his ass along with Ryan's pressence.

[ZachEY]

Did he have 14 sacks at the combine, or was that during the season?

Everyone wants to attack him for performing well in the combine, yet, the guy performed pretty well in college too.

[bitonti]

the same jokers that call Vernon Gholston a bust would take him on their team, today. A 266 pound dude who runs a 4.6 and is solid muscle... you bet they'd find a place for Vernon Gholston.

as for jets fans calling him a bust, there's just no excuse. We should know better than that. We saw Hugh Douglas go to the pro bowl 2 years after leaving the Jets and we saw James Farrior do the same.

This is gonna sound obvious but sometimes 23 year olds are boys and they are playing a man's game. Will VG grow up? Stay tuned but the draft is about potential and anyone who says there was a pick that made better sense at 6 overall is a flat out liar.

[JMJ]

When a college DE from a 4-3 defense is drafted to be an OLB in the NFL in a 3-4 defense it is done for one reason and one reason only ... because it is viewed that he could be a pass rushing demon at the OLB position in a 3-4.

Mangini did this but then asked the guy to play underneath zone 90% of the time rather then rush the passer.

Could Gholston be a bust? Certainly can. Do we have even the slightest idea as to whether or not he is yet? Certainly don't.

If he was drafted by Pittsburgh and played OLB in their style of the 3-4, how do you think he would have done then? Nobody knows of course, but if you didn't intend to use him how a team like Pittsburgh would have had they drafted him, you shouldn't have drafted him in the first place. Period.

[CTM]

the same jokers that call Vernon Gholston a bust would take him on their team, today. A 266 pound dude who runs a 4.6 and is solid muscle... you bet they'd find a place for Vernon Gholston.

as for jets fans calling him a bust, there's just no excuse. We should know better than that. We saw Hugh Douglas go to the pro bowl 2 years after leaving the Jets and we saw James Farrior do the same.

This is gonna sound obvious but sometimes 23 year olds are boys and they are playing a man's game. Will VG grow up? Stay tuned but the draft is about potential and anyone who says there was a pick that made better sense at 6 overall is a flat out liar.

man what is it with you and struggling high defensive draft picks..

And I agree with Jif or Ey,whomever blamed Mangina. Gholston should've been a third down specialist whose job was to kill QB..

FTR, dude still looks slow to me in pads..

[ZachEY]

man what is it with you and struggling high defensive draft picks..

And I agree with Jif or Ey,whomever blamed Mangina. Gholston should've been a third down specialist whose job was to kill QB..

FTR, dude still looks slow to me in pads..

Slow, or tentative? Big difference right now.

[CTM]

Slow, or tentative? Big difference right now.

c) all of the above

[#90]

Gholston does not want it! He has all the intagibles. But, as Parcells once said, if they don't bite as puppies, then they won't bite" Gholston's atttiude reminds me of ex-Jet Dorian Boose(DL) He had all the physical skills to be a good player. But, he was as soft as a marshmallow.

[Stonehands]

When he was drafted, I remember someone from the OSU staff saying that he will be a good one if the Jets are patient enough to get him acclimated to the pro game. They said when he came to Ohio State he was overwhlemed and it took him nearly two seasons to get comfortable with what they were doing. They said when he has uncertainty in his mind, he plays slower and is not instinctive. They said that by year 3 he should be a stud. Hopefully we will see him develop his second year with the team.

[jetfan718]

The article touched on it a little bit, but they didnt get into it enough. HC numbnuts put this guy in a very unnatural position and made it basically impossible for him to have an impact his rookie year especially missing the OTA's.

Im not high on Gholston and never was, but to ask him to be a read and react player is flat out stupidty. He knows one thing, attack the Qb.

Good thing is, Ryan has already recognized that and is seemingly looking to change that.

Bad thing is, the comments coming out of the locker room. You never want to hear Vets saying that he seems like he doesnt care about Football. Hopefully, this will light a fire under his ass along with Ryan's pressence.

[bitonti]

man what is it with you and struggling high defensive draft picks..

FTR, dude still looks slow to me in pads..

For the record - i didn't defend Gholston other than to say the jury is still out... and also for the record if you have a pick at 6 that makes better sense, knowing only what we knew at the time, I'm all ears.

Jets fans are excellent at bashing picks, not so excellent at thinking of better ideas. The Drob situation for example would we be happier with Michael Haynes and Rex Grossman? Jon Sullivan? if the 2 first rounders became 2 busts instead of 1 would that make us feel better?

[SMC]

Gholston should sue Mangini for professional malpractice because of all the flak he's taking based on how Mangini put him in a position to fail rather than succeed.

By the way, I'm not a big Gholston fan. I will defend the pick though because he was the best player on the board at the time at a position of need.

But, as JMJ mentioned, Mangini did nothing but hurt him as a player.

[Irish Jet]

I'm willing to give Vernon a shot with Rex Ryan at the helm. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't excited to see what he can get out of him. Ryan was talking about how he himself played a HUGE part in Suggs' development as a player and Suggs backed him up on that.

I'm concerned, no doubt, as every Jet fan should be but let's not give up on the guy just yet.

[CTM]

For the record - i didn't defend Gholston other than to say the jury is still out... and also for the record if you have a pick at 6 that makes better sense, knowing only what we knew at the time, I'm all ears.

Jets fans are excellent at bashing picks, not so excellent at thinking of better ideas. The Drob situation for example would we be happier with Michael Haynes and Rex Grossman? Jon Sullivan? if the 2 first rounders became 2 busts instead of 1 would that make us feel better?

The only reason you don't like the alternatives is cause you refuse to accept trade scenarios..

re: Robertson, how about staying put at 13 and 22 and drafting Troy Polamalu/Ty Warren at 13 and Dallas Clark/Larry Johnson at 22?

I'm not bashing Gholston either, just pointing out the trend

[Sperm Edwards]

For the record - i didn't defend Gholston other than to say the jury is still out... and also for the record if you have a pick at 6 that makes better sense, knowing only what we knew at the time, I'm all ears.

Jets fans are excellent at bashing picks, not so excellent at thinking of better ideas. The Drob situation for example would we be happier with Michael Haynes and Rex Grossman? Jon Sullivan? if the 2 first rounders became 2 busts instead of 1 would that make us feel better?

The #13 pick we traded away was used for Ty Warren, not Michael Haynes.

At #22, no chance we would have taken Grossman after Pennington's 2002 season, so that's just you being ridiculous. The next pick was McGahee. After that was Dallas Clark. Nnamdi went off the board at #31.

Oh, and Anquan Boldin was the next pick after we reached on Victor Hobson by 2-3 full rounds.

We also gave away our #4 pick in that DRob trade I believe.

Not to mention DRob ate up more cap space than all 3 of those picks would have counted combined.

Just an awful job of drafting & draft trading by the Jets.

[Matt39]

I was always under the impression that when Gholston fell to six, the Jets pretty much just shrugged their shoulders and said "I guess we have to take him."

I dont think they ever really liked him, there just werent many other options.

On the field,Gholston looks terrible. Even if his one job was to attack the QB he would have struggled.He isnt fluid or aggressive at all.

I'd be very surprised if he ever contributes to this team

[BroadwayJoe12]

I really feel as though he's going to have a breakout year, could be blind optimism, but I feel with much less responsibility he'll only have one things to focus on and he can do that. I don't doubt his talent, just the position he was put in. I distinctly remember at least years combine how Bill Polian said he absolutely loves Gholston to death and this is from one of the best drafting teams in the NFL.

As for the Mike Mamula comparison, I have argued this point before, but I think it's just completely off. Mamula was another person who was drafted and put in a terrible position; if anything, I 100% blame Mangini and being stubborn and the eagles FO for Mamula's case.

Just a little background on him....

Mike Mamula was a 6'5 250ish pound DE (who dipped to the high 240's during the course of the season) who's best place to play would have been as an OLB not DE. Even though he had considerable strength he wasn't nearly powerful enough to go up against men that outweighed him by 50+ pounds on every single snap of the game. Some people can do it in some schemes, like Robert Mathis, but most cannot.

He was idiocally played out of position by the eagles and suffered injuries in just about every year he was in the league, all of which he played through, and ended up with a mediocre first season but came into his own in his second year posting 52 tackles 8 sacks and 3 forced fumbles. If Gholston put up those numbers these year it would be considered a heck of a turn around.

The only thing this story does is show how idiotic these stupid draft experts can be and it's actually an indication of the poor drafting by the eagles that many years ago. The only person i've ever heard say that it wasn't mamula's fault but the eagles was Jaworski..probably the only one who really gets football out of that bunch of guys.

[Barton]

I liked the Gholston pick, I did.

But you cant blame it all on Mangini for his rookie season. Even when Gholston was put in there on 3rd and longs he looked like sh#t when trying to get to the QB.

I'm hoping he invents some pass rush moves because right now he has NONE.

[ECURB]

I liked the Gholston pick, I did.

But you cant blame it all on Mangini for his rookie season. Even when Gholston was put in there on 3rd and longs he looked like sh#t when trying to get to the QB.

I'm hoping he invents some pass rush moves because right now he has NONE.

You cant just expect him to hop in the game and make ti happen... it takes a lot of confidence to play at a high level... obviously he had little last season... also knoqing mangini was just waiting to punish him for not following his exact orders you know he wasnt gonna try anything new at the risk of even less PT...

[Barton]

You cant just expect him to hop in the game and make ti happen... it takes a lot of confidence to play at a high level... obviously he had little last season... also knoqing mangini was just waiting to punish him for not following his exact orders you know he wasnt gonna try anything new at the risk of even less PT...

Dude, getting to the QB for a pass rusher taken at #6 should be like riding a bike.

But he showed nothing.....NOTHING.

Bottom line, I dont want to hear any "defensive schemes" excuses for a #6 pick showing absolutely nada.

[BroadwayJoe12]

I liked the Gholston pick, I did.

But you cant blame it all on Mangini for his rookie season. Even when Gholston was put in there on 3rd and longs he looked like sh#t when trying to get to the QB.

I'm hoping he invents some pass rush moves because right now he has NONE.

I can't quantitate an exact percentage that I blame on Mangini, but if I took a stab in the dark it would be 90%. I understand that he had two high-priced OLBs already so it would be difficult to give GHolston enough playing time, but when you draft a guy of this caliber you work him in much more than Mangini did. And when he found him struggling, you would assume he would change his responsibilities and make him more of a one dimentional type of player.

Now, I understand making him earn playing time in practice, but some people are gamers and the only way you get that experience is by being in the game. I wouldn't mind cutting or trading Thomas and allowing Gholston to play the majority of the snaps in an attack-first offense.

We shall see.

[Barton]

I can't quantitate an exact percentage that I blame on Mangini, but if I took a stab in the dark it would be 90%. I understand that he had two high-priced OLBs already so it would be difficult to give GHolston enough playing time, but when you draft a guy of this caliber you work him in much more than Mangini did. And when he found him struggling, you would assume he would change his responsibilities and make him more of a one dimentional type of player.

Now, I understand making him earn playing time in practice, but some people are gamers and the only way you get that experience is by being in the game. I wouldn't mind cutting or trading Thomas and allowing Gholston to play the majority of the snaps in an attack-first offense.

We shall see.

Mangini didnt handle him well, no question. Just seems like people want to blame it all on him, and I'd like to, but I dont buy that.

If Gholston was gonna do anything his rookie year, he would have done it. I just dont want to hear any excuses. Sick of excuses for sh#tty play, sick of it.

[Larz]

"Right now he's built like Tarzan, plays like Jane."

OUCH

[Spudicus]

Chris Long, DMC, Dorsey, Ellis, and Harvey all seemed to struggle a little this year but they were able to do something because they saw playing time. I have a feeling if Gholston had been put out there to rush a few plays a game he would have finished with at least a couple sacks, he's too gifted athletically to not pick up at least a couple easy sacks against weak o-lines. It's hard to call him a bust when he couldn't get on the field and we couldn't see what he could really do? Maybe that itself makes him a bust, but couldn't it also be because Mangini was an idiot?

[ECURB]

Dude, getting to the QB for a pass rusher taken at #6 should be like riding a bike.

But he showed nothing.....NOTHING.

Bottom line, I dont want to hear any "defensive schemes" excuses for a #6 pick showing absolutely nada.

At this point where he was picked means nothing... it comes down to whether or not Ryan can actually use him... if he can use him effectively most will not complain... there is no such thing as a sure pick... if there was it would only take a few years before the NFL was full of 1st and 2nd round studs...

[shutout]

Max, is there any way that you can adjust the language filter to replace any combination of "anonymous Jets veteran" with "Laveranues Coles" since we all know thats where these quotes (particularly the ones that pertain to his teammates' pay) continuously come from?

[CoachTsurfing]

the same jokers that call Vernon Gholston a bust would take him on their team, today. A 266 pound dude who runs a 4.6 and is solid muscle... you bet they'd find a place for Vernon Gholston.

as for jets fans calling him a bust, there's just no excuse. We should know better than that. We saw Hugh Douglas go to the pro bowl 2 years after leaving the Jets and we saw James Farrior do the same.

This is gonna sound obvious but sometimes 23 year olds are boys and they are playing a man's game. Will VG grow up? Stay tuned but the draft is about potential and anyone who says there was a pick that made better sense at 6 overall is a flat out liar.

We also saw workout wonder drob do nothing and get cut after he was sent for nothing to the broncos. Bryan Thomas isn't too far behind.

[NJ]

Hmm .... a 4.6? ... maybe he should get a fresh shot at his sophomore year. I still haven't heard anywhere that he's a puss or is too stupid to learn. Or even that he doesn't have the heart or instincts.

[SoFlaJets]

wasn't he supposed to be hiring Lawrence Taylor to tutor him?

The way I like to think of the Gholston deal is that we have an extra first round pick in '09 that we have already used. Our last year's pick Dustin Keller did pretty good for us-so this year we already got our #6 and we have to wait until April for the 17th-it's all about perception guys

[Sperm Edwards]

wasn't he supposed to be hiring Lawrence Taylor to tutor him?

The way I like to think of the Gholston deal is that we have an extra first round pick in '09 that we have already used. Our last year's pick Dustin Keller did pretty good for us-so this year we already got our #6 and we have to wait until April for the 17th-it's all about perception guys

Well then in that case I perceive it to mean we drafted a bust at #6 two years in a row.

[SoFlaJets]

Well then in that case I perceive it to mean we drafted a bust at #6 two years in a row.

ouch

[Thai Jet]

I remember Parcells always saying that the combine is nice but "CAN THE GUY PLAY FOOTBALL ?" That's the bottom line. You're signing him to play football not to participate in a track meet.

[Thai Jet]

man what is it with you and struggling high defensive draft picks..

And I agree with Jif or Ey,whomever blamed Mangina. Gholston should've been a third down specialist whose job was to kill QB..

FTR, dude still looks slow to me in pads..

The few times I saw Gholston on the field I was shocked by his lack of playing speed. It was like he was in slow motion or "saving" himself for a long game or something. Tough to watch.

[Sperm Edwards]

I remember Parcells always saying that the combine is nice but "CAN THE GUY PLAY FOOTBALL ?" That's the bottom line. You're signing him to play football not to participate in a track meet.

He must have meant guys like Dorian Boose, Rick Terry, Terry Day, David Loverne, Dedric Ward, Jason Wiltz, Scott Frost, Kevin Williams, and Leon Johnson. Farrior wan't much either (particularly for a top-10 pick) until Pittsburgh moved him inside.