JustInFudge Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 So 1 trade makes this the Tanny era all over again? Haha - I hate this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 you think Denver's mad now wait for when they bring back revis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Dude has $45 million and 5 draft picks left, let's just calm our t!ts down. We only have $45M left? UGH! Spending like drunken sailors something something rabble rabble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Life Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 It was one trade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I agree with you about Harris, however, the factor we have no insight into is how Bowles wants to use him, and how much he valued him. We perceive Harris's value based on how Rex used him. I think if Bowles is looking at his new defense and sees Harris as a lynchpin, then that explains the extension in every way. unless Harris blitzes 90% of the time I don't see how a guy who can't cover a wet blanket is worth that much $$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 unless Harris blitzes 90% of the time I don't see how a guy who can't cover a wet blanket is worth that much $$. Yeah, I generally agree. I'm just reserving judgement until how I see Harris employed by Bowles. I'm skeptical... however, I don't really give a **** how much he makes as long as the Harris contract doesn't prove to be an obstacle to improving other areas of this team. IMO, it's okay to overpay a guy here and there, especially a locker room leader, as long as it doesn't undermine the larger initiative to improve the whole. One spin nobody is putting on this is that this may be a sign that this front office is willing to win a bidding war if it comes to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 So it's not Tannenbaum but Maccagnan. But it sure feels like the Tannenbaum era. Problem is if this continues then there is no way in heck we have a team that has the chance to contend for the BIG prize. Once again. Period. You've got this completely backwards, at least from a NY Jets perspective. The closest we've ever gotten to the Lombardi Trophy since Richard Nixon was in office happened when we had two front offices hell-bent on a quick turnaround who eschewed the draft and loaded up on free agents: 1998 Parcells era 2009 Tannenbaum era Everything else we've done trying to do it the so-called "right" way through the draft has been a huge bust, just a waste of time treading water. And today the cap and the rules makes going at it the "Jet" way even smarter. Let's load up on other team's investments (4th year guys proven and in their prime) and known high-caliber players (6th year guys with a little left). Nothing else works for us. It's time we admit that we suck at drafting and player development and do it the Steinbrenner way. SAR I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I agree with you about Harris, however, the factor we have no insight into is how Bowles wants to use him, and how much he valued him. We perceive Harris's value based on how Rex used him. I think if Bowles is looking at his new defense and sees Harris as a lynchpin, then that explains the extension in every way. The other possibility is the sad one. Harris has been a good Jets "draft and succeed" story for a player. Maybe Woody didn't want to lose Harris to the Bills the way he lost Revis to the Pats. It could be a Woody's ego contract, however, I doubt it. I think it's got more to do with Bowles being supported by his new GM as they acclimate to each other. As for the Harvin comments from Mac, I think that was posturing to see if he could get Harvin to restructure, which would have made the 4th worth giving up. Mac didn't ask for that situation, he just tried to do something with it. I can accept that, except the only thing Bowles has been vocal about so far is getting faster on defense. And then they give 2 years' starter guarantees to David Harris as the first order of business (on defense). It is contradictory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I can accept that, except the only thing Bowles has been vocal about so far is getting faster on defense. And then they give 2 years' starter guarantees to David Harris as the first order of business (on defense). It is contradictory. 1,000 percent chance we give Cromartie his old deal back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Except for that to happen, the Jets would've had to lose more free agents than they signed this year - and that wasn't gonna happen. Not sure if this was supposed to be a thread bashing the new regime in comparison to Idzik, but Maccagnan basically got the fourth that Idzik was happy to give away for Harvin, and got a better pure receiver for a fifth. Looks to me like he's bracing for Geno to continue to start, and wanted to get him a big, reliable target. As for Harris, I've expected him back all along, although the number is higher than I expected. Not ready to put up a billboard just yet. I'm very happy with the Marshall trade. The Harris signing is contradictory to what Bowles has said he wants on defense (speed). Most of the pitchfork stuff seems more intense because fans of individual players are convincing themselves that re-signing Harris for such an amount (such a guaranteed amount) that it precludes us from finding someone faster or just simply better, as though there is no such thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 1,000 percent chance we give Cromartie his old deal back. I hear he can still run the 40 in under 4.5 seconds in his gym shorts. And also I hear disco is making a comeback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prime21 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I can accept that, except the only thing Bowles has been vocal about so far is getting faster on defense. And then they give 2 years' starter guarantees to David Harris as the first order of business (on defense). It is contradictory. As long as its not the last order of business then we will be fine. Lets see how the rest of the defense pans out through free agency and the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Why do SOJF have to sh*t on everything? We just picked up a top 15 WR for probably a fifth round pick, something that would be EASILY regained by dropping a few spots in either 2nd or 3rd round? If we wind up trading back in the first, we are going to get multiple picks over multiple years. WOW..... Because, by definition, that's what SOJFs do. Never a positive word from them even when it is warranted. The SOJF will find something miserable under every rock. This forum has a fair share of them, a couple right in this thread. Being Jets fans, we must learn to live in harmony with those SOJFs and just accept that they will only see and express the negatives, and defend those negatives even when their reasoning is absurd. For more than 20 years I had one of them behind me at Giants stadium in section 123. The guy would never stop complaining and whining about anything and everything. So much so that my son (now 25), when he was 12 asked me what was wrong with the guy. It was very difficult trying to explain why SOJFs do what they do. They defy all logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 The price. Irrelevant. We can easily afford the guaranteed $15 million over then next 2 years. Next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Dude has $45 million and 5 draft picks left, let's just calm our t!ts down. I'm not sure why everyone is so surprised about the Harris deal: he's valued immensely more the coaching staff as compared to the fans. There is something highly vital about a Lb who can change the defensive front and play every down. So Bowles gets his defensive captain for two years, doesn't handcuff any current or future moves, I'm willing to let the entire offseason play out before I join the hysteria. add to that the fact that we had no one to replace him in the MIKE. Time to groom a replacement over the next 2 seasons. Slow as frozen sh*t he is, but #52 can tackle, apply pressure, stuff the run and provide leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSfaninNE Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Harvin. Boring and value based. Patterson, same. Mike Vick. Boring and value based is code for clueless and paralyzed, I guess. A third year for Idzik would have seen him spending like a madman, because he set it up that way. Are you really being an Idzik apologist? C'mon man. Sure it looks like he would have been spending like a madman but that would incur that he actually knows how to negotiate and place proper values on players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet9 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I ******* hate Jets fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSfaninNE Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I can accept that, except the only thing Bowles has been vocal about so far is getting faster on defense. And then they give 2 years' starter guarantees to David Harris as the first order of business (on defense). It is contradictory. Bowles plays more 1LB Dime coverage then any other team in the league last year. He actually replaces LBs with DBs a higher percentage of plays then anyone else. This is a big difference with Bowles compared to Ryan. Ryan always ran 2 LBs 99% of the time. Harris will probably change to a 1st and 2nd down only LB'r and a vet mentor for younger guys at this point. Did we overpay for that, absolutely. But its how you value some of the intangibles such as the leadership, mentoring and the fact it sends a positive message to other homegrown talent like Wilk and others that the Jets take care of their home grown talent. Any other year I'd probably me more upset then i am but for the next 2 yrs where we are hemorrhaging money to spend I think its OK to give someone of Harris' ilk more money. I don't think we have Trader Mike by any means but I do think we have a GM now, who is a good negotiator as well as have a good vision for what he and Bowles want to do with this team. I really didn't thikn we were going to get Marshall for a 5th. If anything I thought there would be an escalator like Harvins trade had. Macc is off to a good start with negotiations imo. Bring in the Guards and DBs now and get'r done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I appreciate a good dose of cynicism..... ....but it's hard to lay it out too thick on these moves, tbqh. Yes, Marshall, like Harvin, comes in with injury and attitude issues. But he was cheap and we have huge cap space. We are still very flexable in the WR spot. And Marshall, unlike Harvin, isn't a slash, he's a pure #1 WR (if healthy). Harris may not be flashy, but he's an excellent Middle LB, and will be fine. He's the D's B, and I'd bet our new HC wanted to keep him there. Sure, it's a little costly, but we have it to spend (in fact, HAVE to spend, I bet this was chas heavy up front, but cap friendly over the full three years, both helping us tbqh). Thus far, some risk, sure, but for appropriate price, and we're a better team than we were a few days ago less Marshall and less Harris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Are you really being an Idzik apologist? C'mon man. Sure it looks like he would have been spending like a madman but that would incur that he actually knows how to negotiate and place proper values on players. Read again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I can accept that, except the only thing Bowles has been vocal about so far is getting faster on defense. And then they give 2 years' starter guarantees to David Harris as the first order of business (on defense). It is contradictory. Yeah, I see what you mean. How amazing would it be if the Jets did this as some sort of sign-and-trade and Harris is part of how we acquire a QB finally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-Rex Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 So it's not Tannenbaum but Maccagnan. But it sure feels like the Tannenbaum era. After a couple of seasons of those boring. deliberate, value based moves, suddenly once again the excitement in the back in the air, turbo charged forced trades which did not need to be made, in which the draft picks are the acceptable casualty AND on top of that existing players being overpaid so they sign back with the team. Atleast based on the first two major moves of the Maccagnan era we see so many similarities to those bygone days. Maybe you cannot blame him. What else do you do when the owner made the previous guy a scapegoat and ran him away out of town for making deliberate and value based moves. And i not being absolving the previous GM of his mistakes in the draft but i did expect a whole bunch of what i am seeing today and it does not surprise me. Problem is if this continues then there is no way in heck we have a team that has the chance to contend for the BIG prize. Once again. Period. You see John Idzik as a scapegoat. What planet are you from? Idzik dropped the ball in every conceivable way from FA to a sub-par draft to poor personnel moves. Sheesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 People drastically underestimate the responsibilities of the Mike in a pressure-heavy, exotic scheme. By all accounts, both Rex and now Bowles are defensive savants and both of them consider Harris pretty invaluable. Maybe, just maybe he does more for this team than the average fan knows. His contract isn't great, but it doesn't preclude us from any other moves currently or in the future, so I'm willing to let the rest of the off-season play out before we trash the guy. I mean christ, free agency hasn't even started and it's chaos in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I appreciate a good dose of cynicism..... ....but it's hard to lay it out too thick on these moves, tbqh. Yes, Marshall, like Harvin, comes in with injury and attitude issues. But he was cheap and we have huge cap space. We are still very flexable in the WR spot. And Marshall, unlike Harvin, isn't a slash, he's a pure #1 WR (if healthy). Harris may not be flashy, but he's an excellent Middle LB, and will be fine. He's the D's B, and I'd bet our new HC wanted to keep him there. Sure, it's a little costly, but we have it to spend (in fact, HAVE to spend, I bet this was chas heavy up front, but cap friendly over the full three years, both helping us tbqh). Thus far, some risk, sure, but for appropriate price, and we're a better team than we were a few days ago less Marshall and less Harris. After the initial shock, I'm coming around. I hope Marshall is really on the straight and narrow, and Harris is a good dude and we have sh*t-tons of cap space so who cares how much he's making. The thing that would bother me is if we make these moves and then they try to sell us Mariota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 After the initial shock, I'm coming around. I hope Marshall is really on the straight and narrow, and Harris is a good dude and we have sh*t-tons of cap space so who cares how much he's making. The thing that would bother me is if we make these moves and then they try to sell us Mariota. It wouldn't be ideal, and wouldn't be my preference either, I freely admit. With that said, Mariota > Smith. So it wouldn;t be a great decision, but it would improve the team. /shrug, we're all going to just have to deal with what the new regime wants, when it comes to QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 People drastically underestimate the responsibilities of the Mike in a pressure-heavy, exotic scheme. By all accounts, both Rex and now Bowles are defensive savants and both of them consider Harris pretty invaluable. Maybe, just maybe he does more for this team than the average fan knows. His contract isn't great, but it doesn't preclude us from any other moves currently or in the future, so I'm willing to let the rest of the off-season play out before we trash the guy. I mean christ, free agency hasn't even started and it's chaos in here. I don't understand the Harris hate. He's a valuable player and he wanted to stay with the team. He was also going to field FA offers so if the Jets wanted to retain him rather than finding another MLB to captain the defense, then they had to pay a premium. Also, Harris' issues in coverage is a scheme/play call issue. He shouldn't be covering TEs as most MLBs shouldn't be. We saw the same problem in the SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 After the initial shock, I'm coming around. I hope Marshall is really on the straight and narrow, and Harris is a good dude and we have sh*t-tons of cap space so who cares how much he's making. The thing that would bother me is if we make these moves and then they try to sell us Mariota. What if they buy in on Mariota, but he sits for the entire season? Odds are this team won't be picking top 6 again next year and your Connor Cooks of the world will be gone. Mariota might be the best QB the Jets will have the opportunity to acquire for a couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Yeah, I see what you mean. How amazing would it be if the Jets did this as some sort of sign-and-trade and Harris is part of how we acquire a QB finally? what sense would that make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Yeah, I see what you mean. How amazing would it be if the Jets did this as some sort of sign-and-trade and Harris is part of how we acquire a QB finally? It would be amazing even though I would have to eat my words. They do run a 3-4 as well, but I think Harris is too expensive for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsHex Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I don't understand the Harris hate. He's a valuable player and he wanted to stay with the team. He was also going to field FA offers so if the Jets wanted to retain him rather than finding another MLB to captain the defense, then they had to pay a premium. Also, Harris' issues in coverage is a scheme/play call issue. He shouldn't be covering TEs as most MLBs shouldn't be. We saw the same problem in the SB. Buffalo, Atlanta, Green Bay were all in line for Harris and he would have probably been signed for a larger contract. Coverage is a small part of 3-4 ILB responsibility and is a mismatch for any 3-4 schemed defense. The point is to disguise the fact that he is in coverage or in zone or blitzing. It's all a chess match and if he is in coverage the pass rush is expected to hit home before the ball is thrown. The people here clamoring for Harris' release are not offering any solutions and forget that the Mike has a huge target on his chest that guards and centers gun for on every play. Lightweights and rookies need not apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 what sense would that make? Team Harris would go to could have made it a condition that he's extended before the trade, so that they don't risk acquiring him then losing him to FA. Anyway, it was a 'what if', not even a realistic one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 It would be amazing even though I would have to eat my words. They do run a 3-4 as well, but I think Harris is too expensive for them. Who is them? I didn't mention any specific QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 unless Harris blitzes 90% of the time I don't see how a guy who can't cover a wet blanket is worth that much $$. You're definitely right about that but does Bowles have a viable immediate replacement that's worth a fuk? I don't see him on the roster yet. If ever a home team bonus payment makes sense, it is now. Maccagnan needs to draft prospects for Harris' successor pretty damned soon. He's already one of the slowest ILB in the league, but he's still one of their best tacklers and really good against the run. Major liability in any form of coverage. But he is the leader out there and that definitely adds value. I'm fine with it but reserve the right to make fun of his lack of speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Who is them? I didn't mention any specific QB. I thought you meant they being Philadelphia, since that's the only trade rumor for a QB I'm aware of being thrown around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSfaninNE Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Read again. I've read it a couple times, I must be missing sarcasm or reading it in the incorrect context. Apologies if so, still seems the same to me. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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