did i hear this right? 20m guaranteed for cromartie? JF80 apologized to JiF?

[SMC]

all this "are the numbers right" stuff aside 

 

keep in mind the cap went up 10 mil each of the last two years and could do the same over the next two years. 

 

All this talk about cap hell isn't relevant when league revenues are soaring.

there is no cap hell anymore. 

This.

 

Again, we're no longer in the Parcells-Bradyway era of the salary cap when CMart was 15% of the cap and the team had to either cut good players or let good young players go to get under the cap.

 

These guaranteed numbers only matter if (1) it prevents the Jets from signing someone else or (2) they have to cut someone good because of the crappy contract.

 

Plus, wasn't there mention of the guarantees being roster bonuses rather than signing bonuses so there is no proration?

[AVM]

I think my issue is the cumulative impact.  If it had just been Cro and Gilchrist we overpaid a bit, I'm OK with that given how weak we are in the secondary and the fact that we have to spend.  But you throw in the Harris deal that makes absolutely no sense and it makes me worry just a little. 

 

I know the prevailing argument is that Harris's presence is necessary so that teams can't run all day on us.  But why is that worth $7M a year with $15M guaranteed?  We need to get young, fast and athletic at the ILB positions, and that dollar figure means Harris will be on the field basically every 1st down and most 2nd down situations.  And if he's not and is reduced to a non-factor or situational run stopper, we can't cut him for another 2 years unless we find a trade partner.  Weird deal.

Im not going to argue he's not way overpaid. He is. I do think there's a bit of s method to the madness and you started hitting on it.

Bowles D calls for the Nickel or Dime well more than any other coach in the league. This isn't because opposing O's were always looking at 2nd/3rd and long but he also marched that personnel out there on first (this is my understanding). If you're going to do that you better have your front 5/6 stout. Pretty sure you got that, though. So why him and not another run stopper (close to his talent level) for less? Well...not sure there was one in a significantly cheaper price range. Paying him may also give a guy like Wilk a little bit of confidencd we'll actually pay him one day. We take care of our own.

I'd also add what Bit talked about -- if revenues keep growing like this, even if we cut him it won't us in 3 years. It also seems that Revis, Marshall, Carpenter, and Skrine are all non-guaranteed hits in year 3...or at least significantly lower. I could be wrong on Carpenter, but I seem to remember thinking that about all of that crowd. Still don't know on Cro and Skrine is just the total guaranteed number.

Basically, let's go for two years with this group while seeing what we get out of draft picks/youth...especially guys like Milliner and MacDougle.

All that said, I'm pretty sure we could have offered him a little less than that number and kept him. Can't really imagine Buffalo was THAT high.

[Jetsfan80]

Im not going to argue he's not way overpaid. He is. I do think there's a bit of s method to the madness and you started hitting on it.

Bowles D calls for the Nickel or Dime well more than any other coach in the league. This isn't because opposing O's were always looking at 2nd/3rd and long but he also marched that personnel out there on first (this is my understanding). If you're going to do that you better have your front 5/6 stout. Pretty sure you got that, though. So why him and not another run stopper (close to his talent level) for less? Well...not sure there was one in a significantly cheaper price range. Paying him may also give a guy like Wilk a little bit of confidencd we'll actually pay him one day. We take care of our own.

I'd also add what Bit talked about -- if revenues keep growing like this, even if we cut him it won't us in 3 years. It also seems that Revis, Marshall, Carpenter, and Skrine are all non-guaranteed hits in year 3...or at least significantly lower. I could be wrong on Carpenter, but I seem to remember thinking that about all of that crowd. Still don't know on Cro and Skrine is just the total guaranteed number.

Basically, let's go for two years with this group while seeing what we get out of draft picks/youth...especially guys like Milliner and MacDougle.

All that said, I'm pretty sure we could have offered him a little less than that number and kept him. Can't really imagine Buffalo was THAT high.

 

 

Good analysis.  So I guess we can expect to see just 2-3 LB's out there most of the time?  One of which we hopefully snag in the draft?

[JetBlue]

Jets fans complaining again, what else is new.

Agreed, some times it is hard to read this board.  They complain if we don't spend enough, they complain if we spend too much.  They complain.... etc, etc.  

[FidelioJet]

Today's dollars are very different than even  few years ago. 

 

These contracts aren't hampering us at all.  They all pretty much clear out in two years - and the cap will continue to go up.

 

Go get the players you think can help you win.  and don't sign deals that kill you long term - these don't.

[dbatesman]

"We have the money, so we may as well spend it" isn't a defense of Maccagnan. It's precisely the attitude that got Tannenbaum fired.

[Sperm Edwards]

This.

 

Again, we're no longer in the Parcells-Bradyway era of the salary cap when CMart was 15% of the cap and the team had to either cut good players or let good young players go to get under the cap.

 

These guaranteed numbers only matter if (1) it prevents the Jets from signing someone else or (2) they have to cut someone good because of the crappy contract.

 

Plus, wasn't there mention of the guarantees being roster bonuses rather than signing bonuses so there is no proration?

 

The last point doesn't matter much. The unused money this year (had they been more heavily on signing bonuses) would have forwarded to next year. Six in one half dozen in the other. We guaranteed money it has to come off the cap, and the NFL's cap is not a hard one. 

 

Some are a little backloaded (Skrine's cap number jumps by $3M next year, Carpenter by $2M, Revis by $1M) and we haven't seen the year-to-year breakdown of Cromartie's contract yet. Because of how little flexibility we'd be left with if he counts a full $8M this year, I wouldn't be surprised if his cap number also climbs by millions next season. We'll find out soon, though.

[Jetsfan80]

"We have the money, so we may as well spend it" isn't a defense of Maccagnan. It's precisely the attitude that got Tannenbaum fired.

 

The rules change a bit when you're forced to spend it, but the concern for a Tannenbaum 2.0 is still justifiable.  Let's hope not.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

The Harris and Cro contracts are just bad. It isn't just "well we had the money to spend", it's about the opportunity cost of that cap space that's being spent on what is likely declining production. Just not worth it.

[DRJETS]

We're putting his kids through college.

 

LOL. The first time was to pay alimony for his 10 wives in 10 different states.   This time is to pay for his 30 kids' college education, hilarious.   

 

How the hell was Cro able to fleece the Jets this time around?  Idzik still haunting this team from his cave in India. 

[JetsFanatic]

The Harris and Cro contracts are just bad. It isn't just "well we had the money to spend", it's about the opportunity cost of that cap space that's being spent on what is likely declining production. Just not worth it.

Totally disagree. We are much better off with them on the team. Salaries are going up everywhere. Right now we are much better then we were 8 days ago.

[Morrissey]

all this "are the numbers right" stuff aside 

 

keep in mind the cap went up 10 mil each of the last two years and could do the same over the next two years. 

 

All this talk about cap hell isn't relevant when league revenues are soaring.

there is no cap hell anymore. 

yes there is, saints were in it so they had to jettison their best player not named Brees. 

[dbatesman]

The Harris and Cro contracts are just bad. It isn't just "well we had the money to spend", it's about the opportunity cost of that cap space that's being spent on what is likely declining production. Just not worth it.

That's a bingo

[Jetsfan80]

The Harris and Cro contracts are just bad. It isn't just "well we had the money to spend", it's about the opportunity cost of that cap space that's being spent on what is likely declining production. Just not worth it.

That's a bingo

 

Only reason I can think those moves were made was an attempt to give Bowles ALL of the toys he could need on D his first year rather than waiting until Year 2 to meet the 89 % cap floor.  Maybe McDougle or Milliner will be awesome and this becomes meaningless 2 years down the road.  That's my hope there.

[JetsFanInDenver]

looks like maccags might have a little tanny in him

Little ? This is the new Trader Mike.

[JustInFudge]

The rules change a bit when you're forced to spend it, but the concern for a Tannenbaum 2.0 is still justifiable.  Let's hope not.

 

I should smack you.

 

The Harris and Cro contracts are just bad. It isn't just "well we had the money to spend", it's about the opportunity cost of that cap space that's being spent on what is likely declining production. Just not worth it.

 

Yep!  But at least Harris can still play the run at a high level.  He's just a liability in coverage.  Which shouldnt be a concern because what we know about Bowles, is he's not scared to have 4 CB's on the field.  Which makes his contract even more absurd.  He's not even going to be a 3 down LB'er.  I would anticipate that his snap count decreases significantly if Bowles strategy is truly to CB heavy and if he is leaving a LB'er on the field, its going to be Davis.

 

Cro on the other hand, really doesnt bring much to the table.  He's mediocre at best and I wouldnt be surprised if over the next 2 seasons he goes to straight sh*t as his athleticism decreases because he has zero technique.  But, we shall see.  He's certainly better than what they were trotting out their last season.

[Dcat]

That's the problem, whats the difference between Gilchrist and Pryor, Allen, Jarrett or Landry for that matter?  Very little.  We needed cover skills at Safety and this guy cant cover.  Skrine got paid, from what I remember of that contract.

 

Again, I'm happy with the upgrades, we'll see how it pans out. I'm a Jets fan, I expect the worst.  haha

 

Gilchrist can't cover?  Untrue...  at least I don't think you are correct in the least here.   He was played at SS while Weddle was the SD center fielder, so it may not appear that he covers well from the SS position.  Gilchrist was a corner in college and is a more natural fit for the FS position, allowing Pryor to play his natural SS position.  His skill set is nothing at all like Pryor's or Landry's.

[Jetsfan80]

Cro is 100 % overpaid.  But why are we sure he's done?  Especially when Bowles had eyes on him all of last year?  I question the contract but not the player.

[Dcat]

Little ? This is the new Trader Mike.

 

Not quite.  If or when he starts trading away picks during the draft by moving up, then that monicker would fit.  

[JetsFanInDenver]

all this "are the numbers right" stuff aside 

 

keep in mind the cap went up 10 mil each of the last two years and could do the same over the next two years. 

 

All this talk about cap hell isn't relevant when league revenues are soaring.

there is no cap hell anymore. 

 

Yup let's live in that illusion for now. It's soothing, isn't it  ?

[Jetfan13]

We're putting his kids through college.

all 13 of them

[JetsFanInDenver]

Not quite.  If or when he starts trading away picks during the draft by moving up, then that monicker would fit.  

 

He did deal a 5th round pick away for Marshall.

[Dcat]

I should smack you.

 

 

Yep!  But at least Harris can still play the run at a high level.  He's just a liability in coverage.  Which shouldnt be a concern because what we know about Bowles, is he's not scared to have 4 CB's on the field.  Which makes his contract even more absurd.  He's not even going to be a 3 down LB'er.  I would anticipate that his snap count decreases significantly if Bowles strategy is truly to CB heavy and if he is leaving a LB'er on the field, its going to be Davis.

 

Cro on the other hand, really doesnt bring much to the table.  He's mediocre at best and I wouldnt be surprised if over the next 2 seasons he goes to straight sh*t as his athleticism decreases because he has zero technique.  But, we shall see.  He's certainly better than what they were trotting out their last season.

 

plus he played well last season and his DC was Bowles who knows exactly what he's getting.

[Dcat]

He did deal a 5th round pick away for Marshall.

 

so?  He saved our 4th rounder by doing so and I'd rather have a 31 year old Marshall for a 5th than a 27 year old Harvin for a 4th.  Good move.

[faba]

People complain the Jets are hoarding money- then they complain we are spending too much- we needed to spend and bring in players to start the rebuild of this roster. we they all work out - likely not but if the hits are better than misses positve

[JustInFudge]

Gilchrist can't cover?  Untrue...  at least I don't think you are correct in the least here.   He was played at SS while Weddle was the SD center fielder, so it may not appear that he covers well from the SS position.  Gilchrist was a corner in college and is a more natural fit for the FS position, allowing Pryor to play his natural SS position.  His skill set is nothing at all like Pryor's or Landry's.

 

Ok...well shall see.  He's not very good.  That's for sure.

 

plus he played well last season and his DC was Bowles who knows exactly what he's getting.

 

Meh, that doesnt mean much to me.  He's the only guy even remotely familiar with the system on defense, so maybe there is value in that but he's not very good anymore. 

[JetsFanInDenver]

so?  He saved our 4th rounder by doing so and I'd rather have a 31 year old Marshall for a 5th than a 27 year old Harvin for a 4th.  Good move.

 

In here i am not dicussing the merit's or demerit's of the trade. I am saying he is already trading picks away in full blown Trader Mike mode.

 

Just for the record not a big fan of the move when it happened because i still think we could have saved a pick and got a veteran WR in FA and it could most likely have been Marshall himself because the Bears would have cut him. But after the moves for Harris and Cro and coupled with the fact that there was news we might be getting a 7th round pick  in the Marshall trade it's not the worst thing Maccag has done this off season. It would help Geno on offense, so there's that.

[Ben Had]

OK JiF, I see your point now.  $20M guaranteed to Cromartie, $10M guaranteed to Gilchrist and the Harris deal officially are making me a tad worried.

 

Granted, I love the new faces we've brought in.  But the dollar figures are officially a bit worrisome for the new regime.  The Revis deal is fine because we can get out of it in a couple of years.  Skrine was acquired for a very reasonable price.  And of course the Marshall and Fitzpatrick trades have my full endorsement.

 

This knocks the free agency/trading period from an A to a B or B+ for me now.  I'm still very pleased with how the roster is shaping up.  The draft will of course be what matters most.

1 mil for each of his baby mommas

[bitonti]

Yup let's live in that illusion for now. It's soothing, isn't it  ?

 

refresh my memory are you the guy who hated Revis? and thought the team was better with out him? 

 

or was that some other wrong dude

[JetsFanInDenver]

People complain the Jets are hoarding money- then they complain we are spending too much- we needed to spend and bring in players to start the rebuild of this roster. we they all work out - likely not but if the hits are better than misses positve

 

The answer to the ending that 45 year wait lies somewhere in between. You have to spend and make moves and make your team better BUT you cannot overpay talent and that too mostly on the wrong side of 30. When you overpay and give a lot more money away that the player is worth you are left with a team that has a salary cap that's maxed out while the amount of talent on the field is not good enough to win.

 

This regime has been spending money like drunken sailors. It does make people excited for the 3 days this was happening in the off season. But does not necessarily mean the team has a high probability of competing for the Super Bowl.

[JetsFanInDenver]

refresh my memory are you the guy who hated Revis? and thought the team was better with out him? 

 

or was that some other wrong dude

 

Nice deflection. So what does that have to do with your "there is no cap hell anymore." statement i was responding to ?

 

OR is it you have nothing to say about your statement ?

[Jetsfan80]

He did deal a 5th round pick away for Marshall.

 

As long has he doesn't hand Marshall a monster extension like Tannenbaum handed Holmes, not a terrible move.  Holmes provided great value for us at the time of the move, contributing in a big way to several of our wins in '10.  Had we simply let him go after that season we'd have viewed that pickup in a better light.  Marshall is older than Holmes was then but is a better WR overall.

[Arsis]

Apologize to me as well. I've been getting sh*t for criticizing the contracts.

[FidelioJet]

People complain the Jets are hoarding money- then they complain we are spending too much- we needed to spend and bring in players to start the rebuild of this roster. we they all work out - likely not but if the hits are better than misses positve

Yes, Jet fans are amazing.

 

Did anyone see the money being thrown around this offseason.  We didn't overpay for anyone - we paid what the market would bare.  We wanted a player, had the money to spend and paid more than what another team would offer....If Cromartie doesn't sign with us for that amount - someone else would have given him close.  If Harris is let go - someone else would have paid him similar.

 

There were simply too many teams with too much money that HAD to be spent.  

 

Everyone was in an uproar because we held the "value" last year - and now that we decided to outspend for players we needed - we have people complaining...

 

It's okay to be happy with the things we've done.

[Morrissey]

Why guarantees are important in NFL contracts: Gilchrist's 4-year, $22M actually 1 year, $3.5M Skrine's 4-year, $25M actually 2 years, $13M

— Corey Griffin (@CoreyGriffinNBC)

March 18, 2015

 

@CoreyGriffinNBC Why guarantees are important in NFL contracts:

Gilchrist's 4-year, $22M actually 1 year, $3.5M
Skrine's 4-year, $25M actually 2 years, $13M

 

Can we you guys wait to see how these contracts are structed jeez...