In other news, the sky is blue (the Patriots cheat?!?)

[Rexorcism]

Right, he testified under oath about deflating footballs at the appeal hearing before Goodell.  Brady didn't testify about deflation (or any other topic for that matter -- there was no testimony taken at all) before the district court judge.  My point is that the under-oath statements by Brady on the relevant subjects are out there if the NFL had wanted to pursue perjury charges or take other extra-judicial action against Brady.  The fact that the sworn testimony occurred before Goodell rather than the district court judge does not mean that Brady could have expected to lie without consequence. 

Shut up...you're fighting a losing battle...Just own it, Your team cheated itself to 4 SB's...Be proud

[AFCEastFan]

 

Get a grip, your Dee line didnt dominate anybody and you won by one friggen field goal...Cheating Bastids

Thanks.  It's always good to hear the perspective of someone who doesn't watch football.  Really appreciate the diverse viewpoint you are offering here.  

Edited September 8, 2015 by AFCEastFan

[Rexorcism]

Thanks.  It's always good to hear the perspective of someone who doesn't watch football.  Really appreciate the diverse viewpoint you are offering here.  

I watched the game, Einstein...Your dee line didnt dominate anybody, matter of fact your defense was dominated by the Panthers...You won that Super Bowl by the seat of your pants even after all of Ernie Adams' cheating...Adams should be MVP of all Patsy SB's

[AFCEastFan]

I watched the game, Einstein...Your dee line didnt dominate anybody, matter of fact your defense was dominated by the Panthers...You won that Super Bowl by the seat of your pants even after all of Ernie Adams' cheating...Adams should be MVP of all Patsy SB's

Noted.  Thanks again for the great insight!

[Rexorcism]

Noted.  Thanks again for the great insight!

No prob...Thanks yourself for being another Patriot troll that lives on a Jets board...Quite a niche you've carved out for yourself...

[Klecko73isGod]

Noted.  Thanks again for the great insight!

Dude, the game was 14-10 at halftime. There was no dominance on either side of the ball. 

[PFSIKH]

No one told them in writing that they couldn't cheat.

You get it.

[faba]

It is not like just the Jets are pointing these things out- so there goes the premise it is disgruntled Jet fans- it is the fringing whole league

[AFCEastFan]

Dude, the game was 14-10 at halftime. There was no dominance on either side of the ball. 

This is a silly debate -- not your fault, I'm the one who brought it up.  But every one of those 24 points were scored in the last 3:05 of the half.  

Before that, the Panthers went 3-and-out, 3-and-out, 3-and-out, 3-and-out (after quick 1st down), 3-and-out, and 3-and-out (fumble).   Those pathetic first 6 drives by the Panthers were very much the result of the dominance of the Patriots D (and of Washington in particular).  

My snarky comment to CPA was that the Panthers could still have won -- despite any supposed cheating -- if their offense could have been even just a tad better than completely anemic during the bulk of the first half.  

[Thor99]

You get it.

So, do you love or hate Goodell?  He covered up the Spygate cheating scandal, but went after you for Deflategate. 

 

You must be torn.

 

Seriously, though **** Goodell for enabling your cheating franchise for over a decade.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Thor99
Profanity filter doesn't work, Max. Get on it. Stop drinking Fanta and chasing after the summer nanny. The summer is over, let it go.

[PFSIKH]

It is amazing how David Stern (who owns the media) got away with the Rogue Ref defense.

As mentioned before, this looks like a leak by people in the NFL who want to get back at the Pats.

You think?

They leaked incorrect information and then refused to send out a correction.  Nor did they ask ESPN to correct the information.  Of course even after 6 mos. ESPN did nothing.

 When the judge in a pro-business court mocks the "independent" nature of an investigation, it is not hard to surmise the NFL and ESPN are gunning for the Patriots.

And people wanted the Patriots to cooperate.  MMMokkay!!

[CaliforniaJet]

This is a silly debate -- not your fault, I'm the one who brought it up.  But those 24 points were scored in the last 3:05.  

Before that, the Panthers went 3-and-out, 3-and-out, 3-and-out, 3-and-out (after quick 1st down), 3-and-out, and 3-and-out (fumble).   Those pathetic first 6 drives by the Panthers were very much the result of the dominance of the Patriots D (and of Washington in particular).  My snarky comment to CPA was that the Panthers could still have won -- despite any supposed cheating -- if their offense could have been even just a tad better than completely anemic during the bulk of the first half.  

Maybe you guys had their play sheet which included their first 20 or so plays, after that you didn't know what was coming. That's about 18 plays you listed. 

[AFCEastFan]

Maybe you guys had their play sheet which included their first 20 or so plays, after that you didn't know what was coming. That's about 18 plays you listed. 

Good point.  There's no security at the Super Bowl, so I'm sure Sully the Intern walked right into the Panthers locker room and snatched it pre-game.  

[CaliforniaJet]

 

Anything is possible. They did it during games, how do you know which games?

 

Several of them acknowledge that during pregame warm-ups, a low-level Patriots employee would sneak into the visiting locker room and steal the play sheet, listing the first 20 or so scripted calls for the opposing team's offense. (The practice became so notorious that some coaches put out fake play sheets for the Patriots to swipe.) Numerous former employees say the Patriots would have someone rummage through the visiting team hotel for playbooks or scouting reports.

[AFCEastFan]

Anything is possible. They did it during games, how do you know which games?

 

Several of them acknowledge that during pregame warm-ups, a low-level Patriots employee would sneak into the visiting locker room and steal the play sheet, listing the first 20 or so scripted calls for the opposing team's offense. (The practice became so notorious that some coaches put out fake play sheets for the Patriots to swipe.) Numerous former employees say the Patriots would have someone rummage through the visiting team hotel for playbooks or scouting reports.

Because it says "visiting" locker room.  Given that reference and the fact that, unlike at neutral, security-heavy sites (like the Super Bowl) and away sites, the Patriots have control over stadium security and facilities access at their home stadium and could undoubtedly get access to the "visiting" locker room whenever they wanted.  

[Klecko73isGod]

This is a silly debate -- not your fault, I'm the one who brought it up.  But every one of those 24 points were scored in the last 3:05 of the half.  

Before that, the Panthers went 3-and-out, 3-and-out, 3-and-out, 3-and-out (after quick 1st down), 3-and-out, and 3-and-out (fumble).   Those pathetic first 6 drives by the Panthers were very much the result of the dominance of the Patriots D (and of Washington in particular).  

My snarky comment to CPA was that the Panthers could still have won -- despite any supposed cheating -- if their offense could have been even just a tad better than completely anemic during the bulk of the first half.  

And its out of the realm of possibility that the Pats were cheating on defense why?

[Klecko73isGod]

Good point.  There's no security at the Super Bowl, so I'm sure Sully the Intern walked right into the Panthers locker room and snatched it pre-game.  

Yes... because where could a Pats locker room attendant, who would have had an all-access locker room pass, get his hands on a Panthers t-shirt at a Super Bowl game the Panthers were playing in?

[AFCEastFan]

 

And its out of the realm of possibility that the Pats were cheating on defense why?

The point of my original snarky comment was that Washington was rag-dolling the Panthers interior OL for what I said was the entire first half (but now we see was more like all but the last 3:05 of the half) and that his dominance could not be explained by advanced knowledge of the plays (because Washington is going to be matched up against the O-lineman in front of him whether he knows the plays or not).   Could he have been flooding to the ball and beating the OL based on illicit foreknowledge?  Sure, I suppose so.   But Washington is not really a shoot-the-gap and flood-to-the-ball kind of guy, and you would think that the OL would have been able to offer more than token resistance whether or not the Patriots D was cheating.  

[AFCEastFan]

 

Yes... because where could a Pats locker room attendant, who would have had an all-access locker room pass, get his hands on a Panthers t-shirt at a Super Bowl game the Panthers were playing in?

The OTL article is a dirty-laundry fest, yet it specifically says the play sheet stealing accusations relate to visiting locker rooms.  I take that to mean "at Gillette Stadium".   Anything is certainly possible, though, at home or on the road (or at a neutral site, for that matter).  And the Patriots have undoubtedly opened themselves up to a Pandora's box of cheating allegations. 

[Hitman Harris]

Good point.  There's no security at the Super Bowl, so I'm sure Sully the Intern walked right into the Panthers locker room and snatched it pre-game.  

Sorry, cant shout "conspiracy theory!!!" anymore... 

It is now FACT that they are, were, and will always be cheating scumbags and #forevertainted

[AFCEastFan]

Sorry, cant shout "conspiracy theory!!!" anymore... 

It is now FACT that they are, were, and will always be cheating scumbags and #forevertainted

Of course we can -- coordinated, dual missile strikes from SI and ESPN on the same day Goodell addresses the Deflate Gate litigation?  That reeks of a conspiracy. Doesn't take away from the allegations against the Patriots, but the conspiracy talk is still there and stronger than ever.  

[rillo]

The reports are more damaging to Goodell than the *Pats. Anyone saying it's a Goodell/NFL hit piece against the *Pats didn't read it.

Edited September 8, 2015 by rillo

[joewilly12]

But buried deep within the ESPN piece is the backstory on how that Spygate allegation first came to light after a 2007 Patriots-Jets game. And Jets owner Woody Johnson and former general manager Mike Tannenbaum both play a part in the NFL's initial attempt to catch the Patriots red-handed.

[Smashmouth]

Right, he testified under oath about deflating footballs at the appeal hearing before Goodell.  Brady didn't testify about deflation (or any other topic for that matter -- there was no testimony taken at all) before the district court judge.  My point is that the under-oath statements by Brady on the relevant subjects are out there if the NFL had wanted to pursue perjury charges or take other extra-judicial action against Brady.  The fact that the sworn testimony occurred before Goodell rather than the district court judge does not mean that Brady could have expected to lie without consequence. 

I know what you're saying but lying to Goodell won't get you jail time as you know. Now if the NFL did bring the actual case to a judge and Brady lies at that point in time he could get in big time trouble. Wonder if Goodell has the balls to persue that or if they are just deflated. Im not sure why internal NFL issues should have been brought to a judge in the first place 

[Larz]

so basically

 

you are a sucker it you don't cheat

 

yay NFL

[Ken Schroy]

 A long story worth reading.        http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart

 

His bosses were furious. Roger Goodell knew it. So on April 1, 2008, the NFL commissioner convened an emergency session of the league's spring meeting at The Breakers hotel in Palm Beach, Florida. Attendance was limited to each team's owner and head coach. A palpable anger and frustration had rumbled inside club front offices since the opening Sunday of the 2007 season. During the first half of the New England Patriots' game against the New York Jets at Giants Stadium, a 26-year-old Patriots video assistant named Matt Estrella had been caught on the sideline, illegally videotaping Jets coaches' defensive signals, beginning the scandal known as Spygate.

AMONG THE FINDINGS

• Deflategate is seen by some owners as a "makeup call" over Spygate.

• From 2000 to 2007, the Patriots videotaped the signals of opposing coaches in 40 games.

• Goodell's handling of Deflategate turned around owners still simmering over Spygate; some say he is now more secure in his job.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Ken Shroy

[JOJOTOWNSELL]

I heard that "Dangerous" Danny Davis has been assigned to ref all the Patriots games this year

 

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PTwTXU6A_vw

Edited September 8, 2015 by JOJOTOWNSELL

[AFCEastFan]

Is 40 games a surprise? Surprisingly small?  I would have expected that the team filmed signals in at least 113 games during that time period (16 per season plus the first part of the Jets game in 2007).  

[GREENBEAN]

When will the hood finally get punished and stripped of all his "honors" ?   It is simply absurd that they have been allowed to cheat their way to the championship on more than one occasion. 

The most embarrassing franchise in all of sports. 

[Charlie Brown]

I like piling on as much as the next guy when it comes to Pats cheating but we already have an extensive thread on this from this morning...

[SoFlaJets]

They have ruined it for me. I'm not even mad about this, just kinda disinterested. I have no faith in the outcomes of these games anymore. They are fixed like Boxing. Of course Tom Brady the least athletic starting QB since Chad Pennington is a cheater. What a surprise. Of course he got away with it.

I'm done or at least winding down on this stuff. I already called to cancel the Sunday Ticket. I'll watch them if they are on free tv, maybe. But i'll watch college on sats and go golf on Sunday instead.  I don't have to support a league that has no integrity. 

Wow now you see what I have been saying for the past few years Matt. 

[Ken Schroy]

If the Mods want to merge that's fine. It was a new report just released so I started a new thread.

[Integrity28]

The point of my original snarky comment was that Washington was rag-dolling the Panthers interior OL for what I said was the entire first half (but now we see was more like all but the last 3:05 of the half) and that his dominance could not be explained by advanced knowledge of the plays (because Washington is going to be matched up against the O-lineman in front of him whether he knows the plays or not).   Could he have been flooding to the ball and beating the OL based on illicit foreknowledge?  Sure, I suppose so.   But Washington is not really a shoot-the-gap and flood-to-the-ball kind of guy, and you would think that the OL would have been able to offer more than token resistance whether or not the Patriots D was cheating.  

If the Patriots knew the protection scheme, then they'd know how to attack it. The line about how he's "matchup up against the OL in front of him" is short-sighted. If the Patriots knew what plays to expect and/or knew signals for protection schemes, then they most definitely could have schemed for the Pats OL to occupy certain parts of the scheme, while Washington gained advantage in his individual matchup(s). 

Nobody, except you, is implying that cheating like this magically makes Washington dominant. What it does is it affords the type of advantage that creates mismatches to exploit. Cheating isn't supposed to afford blatant advantages. It's supposed to afford subtle advantages, like never fumbling the flat football and winning the turnover ratio because turnovers often have an immediate impact on victory.

 

[Charlie Brown]

Anything is possible. They did it during games, how do you know which games?

 

Several of them acknowledge that during pregame warm-ups, a low-level Patriots employee would sneak into the visiting locker room and steal the play sheet, listing the first 20 or so scripted calls for the opposing team's offense. (The practice became so notorious that some coaches put out fake play sheets for the Patriots to swipe.) Numerous former employees say the Patriots would have someone rummage through the visiting team hotel for playbooks or scouting reports.

What Pat defenders fail to realize actually hiring a third party, such as a private agent/detective to get the information would under the rules have been totally legal but totally unethical.  The Pats could honestly say no Pats employee was involved in breaches of security.  That is why I listened to what is not said by the Pats.  They always say "no Pats employee was involved" in this or that not they the Pats didn't try and get or never received possession of improper "game materials". Slick lawyerly response but not good enough if we pay attention.

They have hurt and ruined their own fans joy and what is worse they didn't have to cheat they had a good team.  

[hawk]

Yeah but all teams are looking for an advantage.