Have Jets, Maccagnan, Tipped Hand in Wilkerson Negotiations?

[AFJF]

I, for one, don't mind dealing him away but only if we get the right price. It has to be a 1st rounder plus maybe a 3rd or 4th. Letting him walk to pick up a compensatory pick is borderline retarded. Tag and trade, or sign long term. No other option.

Keep in mind, he still hasn't reached his peak imo. He's only 26. That is unbelievable and works in our favor, in fact.

No way he walks for a comp pick.  

[LIJetsFan]

Not necessarily. We had Mo last year for what like $7mil? A new contract would have raised that years salary charge to something like $12mil. Obviously, we don't know what went on in the negotiations, but Im willing to bet Mo wanted to get rid of the tender paying half his worth and do a new contract whereas McCag wanted a contract that started in 2016.

Difference:

New Contract: 5 years 60 mil - 12mil a year average
Extension: 6 years 67 mil (5 year extension plus the 2015 contract) ≈ 11 mil a year average.

This is just assuming a $12mil a year contract. The bigger that amount goes, the bigger the effect of a new contract versus an extension. So again, we don't know what went on in the negotiations. We heard no rumors or figures.

The other point is, the salary cap can be very easily manipulated. A lot of the big money contracts will drop off in the near future (B'rick, Mangold, Harris, Revis). I don't see Revis playing at his current contract longer than 2 more years . Without looking at it, thats easily $40+ mil in players who would be beyond their prime by the end of 2017. Of course we'll have Sheldon and others demanding a new contract. but we can always manipulate the salary cap. We can afford him. Thats not an issue. Issue is, do we want to afford him?

I'd wager anything that last year Mo wanted a contract equal to the 2015 franchise tag which was a hell of a lot more than 12m per.  For now we just don't know but he wanted more than Mac was willing to pay, and IMHO if 12m per would have done it then he would be under contract as we speak.   

Oh, and salary cap manipulation is how we got into this bind in the first place (thanks Tanny).  I hope and pray those days are behind us under Mac.     

[CanadienJetsFan]

You  guys forget that it's not 100% sure that he will fully recover from his busted leg. That must be factored into the equation.

[Powpow]

You're willing to let him just walk out the door for a 3rd round pick next year? The Jets will either work out a long term deal or they will tag him. I'm sure they will listen to offers for THIS years draft. The offers need to start with THIS years 1 and then some.

No one is going to give you a #1 for him let alone a #1 AND then some.  Mo just had a major injury and has tread on his tires.  We'd be fortunate to grab a #1 in this years' draft for him.  No way I'd sign him long term or even tag him, it cripples the cap - 16 Mil. Paying Revis 16M, Mo 16M and Fitz  8-12 Mil is insane.  The DLine was very pedestrian this past year, very disappointing.  If you let Mo go you still have a strong nucleus in Rich, Big Cat and Snacks, who is indispensable.   The thing with Mac is he seems to have a loyal heart with the contracts he signed off on.  Harris, Cro, Revis....If he follows suit, he'll sign Mo and Dbrick as well based on his loyalty to players who have been here for the long haul.     

[Augustiniak]

mccagnan added all those defensive pieces before the draft, and figured he'd deal with wilk sometime after the draft when there was more time.  then leonard williams fell to them and that gave the jets the upper hand in a major way since they could always franchise wilk.  i think they will test the trade market for wilk leading up the draft, it's the responsible thing to see what your assets are worth.

[NYJ37/12]

No one is going to give you a #1 for him let alone a #1 AND then some.  Mo just had a major injury and has tread on his tires.  We'd be fortunate to grab a #1 in this years' draft for him.  No way I'd sign him long term or even tag him, it cripples the cap - 16 Mil. Paying Revis 16M, Mo 16M and Fitz  8-12 Mil is insane.  The DLine was very pedestrian this past year, very disappointing.  If you let Mo go you still have a strong nucleus in Rich, Big Cat and Snacks, who is indispensable.   The thing with Mac is he seems to have a loyal heart with the contracts he signed off on.  Harris, Cro, Revis....If he follows suit, he'll sign Mo and Dbrick as well based on his loyalty to players who have been here for the long haul.     

Tread on his tires? He's only 26. His leg is fine. He didnt blow his knee out, he broke his leg. I dont think he's going anywhere, but he would certainly get the Jets a 1 plus this year. We can have different opinions.

[AFJF]

Tread on his tires? He's only 26. His leg is fine. He didnt blow his knee out, he broke his leg. I dont think he's going anywhere, but he would certainly get the Jets a 1 plus this year. We can have different opinions.

Agreed...no reason to think he'll be less than 100% after the fracture heals and he's still on his rookie deal.  He's got no more "tread" than any other 26 year old who is about to enter his prime.

[Savage69]

Agreed...no reason to think he'll be less than 100% after the fracture heals and he's still on his rookie deal.  He's got no more "tread" than any other 26 year old who is about to enter his prime.

That ended this season..

[SenorGato]

Trade Richardson, keep Wilkerson

[AFJF]

That ended this season..

splitting hairs but he still under contract until after the Super Bowl. Bottom line is that he is still very young.

[Jetster]

 

 

Someone said it in another thread and it can't be discounted-the interior line gets away with murder when it comes to holding. There was a defensive holding play against DEN, and when they showed the replay you could clearly see NE's guard just plain bear hugging a D lineman in the background. I think it was almost awkward for Simms/Nantz because that hold was 10 times more obvious. Your pass rusher has to come from the outside, those holds are so much more visible and get called far more often. A disruptive outside rusher can reek havoc in a game. A guy like Mo is stout against the run, but he's never going to have the pass rush impact of a guy like Von Miller.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

That was me, and I saw the same play you were talking about. Everyone's watching the outside rush on the replay & RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF OF THE CAMERA the Patriot guard is literally mugging the Dlineman with both hands holding his freaking jersey! Refs had NO SAY in Sundays game because Miller & Ware were just blowing by guys & killing Brady.

They couldn't protect him if they wanted to!

 

[Raideraholic]

mccagnan added all those defensive pieces before the draft, and figured he'd deal with wilk sometime after the draft when there was more time.  then leonard williams fell to them and that gave the jets the upper hand in a major way since they could always franchise wilk.  i think they will test the trade market for wilk leading up the draft, it's the responsible thing to see what your assets are worth.

The Jets can do that but tHan they lost snacks in Fa( can't keep him) and have to account for Muhammad Wilkerson at 16 million per year on their salary cap.( while other teams are fa shopping , the Jets are stuck in a holding pattern.

The Jets had last year cap space this year, they could easily tag him and still be players in Fa.     The Jets could work out a trade with a team( agree to compensation), but if Wilkerson isn't willing to sign a longterm contract with that team( Jets aren't  getting much back in a trade) might be forced to keep him at 16 million.( not good when you have limited resources this year.

[JohnnyLV]

You do everything in your power to keep your best players.  Richardson is a big fat ?  Both discipline wise and play wise.   Of course you listen to any and all trade offers but I would tag Wilkerson and then attempt to sing him long term.

I am not sure we agree on anything regarding the Jets. Signing Wilkerson is straight up idiotic.

[AFJF]

I am not sure we agree on anything regarding the Jets. Signing Wilkerson is straight up idiotic.

Depends on the asking price.  Despite all the claims of him wanting Watt money from fans who don't have  a clue as to what he's actually asking, bringing him back for a market value deal makes sense given Sheldon's history.

[JohnnyLV]

You do everything in your power to keep your best players.  Richardson is a big fat ?  Both discipline wise and play wise.   Of course you listen to any and all trade offers but I would tag Wilkerson and then attempt to sing him long term.

What would market price be?

[Raideraholic]

Lol at letting one of your three best players walk for a third round draft pick. Oh, and he's not even 27 years old. That's definitely the blueprint for success.  

What more important to you- having the best run defense line in the game , or having the best team that capable of winning a championship.     There is no doubt Jets defense line has a lot of talent( a lot of first rounders) , but  they are basically four Dt's ( Wilkerson, S Richardson, Leonard Williams, and d Harrison).   

Teams that are loaded on the defense line like the Jets usually are a 4-3 defense, but the Jet's can't play that way because they don't have the pass rushers at De .( where pressure suppose to come from).    So they play a 3-4 defense where most of the money shouldn't be invested in the Defenseline , but in the lb's.( something wrong there as it makes no sense). You're left trying to play dlineman out of position at Lb.

So my point if it's important you to keep Wilkerson, and keep that defenseline intact .   Than go out and find another pass rushing De , so you can be a 4-3 defense.   And totally blow up that lb corps, as you need different type Lb's for 4-3.   You want to be a top 3-4 defense, than you need to blowup that defense line, and invest heavy in the lb position.

 

[Beerfish]

I am not sure we agree on anything regarding the Jets. Signing Wilkerson is straight up idiotic.

I am glad we don't agree on anything, your love for Geno smith would taint me if we did.

You do not win in this league by drafting players, developing players to pro bowl level and then wave good bye to them once they are at the 'get paid' stage.  A couple years from now once Richardson and Williams are at their peak?  Trade them away.  Pure nonsense.  You do everything in your power to retain your best players 1st of all.  If wilk walks into the office and demands to be paid like Suh and won't budge?  fine he's gone, but to have an attitude that you get rid of a still young near peak pro bowler while we are handing revis a zillion dollars for on the down side play is stupid.

[section314]

I am glad we don't agree on anything, your love for Geno smith would taint me if we did.

You do not win in this league by drafting players, developing players to pro bowl level and then wave good bye to them once they are at the 'get paid' stage.  A couple years from now once Richardson and Williams are at their peak?  Trade them away.  Pure nonsense.  You do everything in your power to retain your best players 1st of all.  If wilk walks into the office and demands to be paid like Suh and won't budge?  fine he's gone, but to have an attitude that you get rid of a still young near peak pro bowler while we are handing revis a zillion dollars for on the down side play is stupid.

Good post. Especially the Revis part. 

[Savage69]

I am glad we don't agree on anything, your love for Geno smith would taint me if we did.

You do not win in this league by drafting players, developing players to pro bowl level and then wave good bye to them once they are at the 'get paid' stage.  A couple years from now once Richardson and Williams are at their peak?  Trade them away.  Pure nonsense.  You do everything in your power to retain your best players 1st of all.  If wilk walks into the office and demands to be paid like Suh and won't budge?  fine he's gone, but to have an attitude that you get rid of a still young near peak pro bowler while we are handing revis a zillion dollars for on the down side play is stupid.

If there was no cap your 100% correct however if giving into the salary demands of 1 player costs the team other needed players it's not a good idea.. 2 GM's have not been able to deal with Mo and Mac has according to some Jet fans overpaid on some of his contract deals yet he can't sign Mo?? Me thinks Mac may not be the unreasonable one here?? 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Agents decide all this crap. They have a ton of power.

[Savage69]

Agents decide all this crap. They have a ton of power.

Then Brady has a terrible agent he's the lowest paid Elite QB ever.. 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Then Brady has a terrible agent he's the lowest paid Elite QB ever.. 

I am guessing his agent makes up for it with other gigs like commercials, endorsements, etc. I doubt he and the Mrs. fight over the cable bill. LOL. Doesn't hurt that she is mega rich as well. 

[BroadwayJoe12]

What more important to you- having the best run defense line in the game , or having the best team that capable of winning a championship.     There is no doubt Jets defense line has a lot of talent( a lot of first rounders) , but  they are basically four Dt's ( Wilkerson, S Richardson, Leonard Williams, and d Harrison).   

Teams that are loaded on the defense line like the Jets usually are a 4-3 defense, but the Jet's can't play that way because they don't have the pass rushers at De .( where pressure suppose to come from).    So they play a 3-4 defense where most of the money shouldn't be invested in the Defenseline , but in the lb's.( something wrong there as it makes no sense). You're left trying to play dlineman out of position at Lb.

So my point if it's important you to keep Wilkerson, and keep that defenseline intact .   Than go out and find another pass rushing De , so you can be a 4-3 defense.   And totally blow up that lb corps, as you need different type Lb's for 4-3.   You want to be a top 3-4 defense, than you need to blowup that defense line, and invest heavy in the lb position.

 

 

You don't need four paragraphs to make a one sentence statement, jeeesus. I'm well aware of how to make a great 34 & 43 dline, but getting rid of argubaly your best player for a 3rd rounder is batsh*t f*cking crazy. 

[Beerfish]

If there was no cap your 100% correct however if giving into the salary demands of 1 player costs the team other needed players it's not a good idea.. 2 GM's have not been able to deal with Mo and Mac has according to some Jet fans overpaid on some of his contract deals yet he can't sign Mo?? Me thinks Mac may not be the unreasonable one here?? 

We have ZERO clue as to what his demands are other than some one off bizarre rumor out of no whee that he wanted watt money.  As I said if he wants so much that it is totally prohibitive fine but I will repeat. if Williams progress as he should and if Richardson progresses as he should you will be doing the same thing in a few years.  Dealing a guy you drafted high, developed and got to pro bowl level.

You try and sign Wilk long term, if it does not look good you franchise him.

[shuler82]

We have ZERO clue as to what his demands are other than some one off bizarre rumor out of no whee that he wanted watt money.  As I said if he wants so much that it is totally prohibitive fine but I will repeat. if Williams progress as he should and if Richardson progresses as he should you will be doing the same thing in a few years.  Dealing a guy you drafted high, developed and got to pro bowl level.

You try and sign Wilk long term, if it does not look good you franchise him.

If I'm Mccagnan I'm trading Wilk for multiple picks and letting D'Brick go. I like both players, but keeping them here hamstrings what the Jets will be able to do this offseason.  Those two moves open up about $20M of cap space. You can sign a stop gap OT replacement and draft someone for the future. And with the new cap space, we can address our LBs and OL, while resigning Fitz and Harrison. 

 

[Savage69]

We have ZERO clue as to what his demands are other than some one off bizarre rumor out of no whee that he wanted watt money.  As I said if he wants so much that it is totally prohibitive fine but I will repeat. if Williams progress as he should and if Richardson progresses as he should you will be doing the same thing in a few years.  Dealing a guy you drafted high, developed and got to pro bowl level.

You try and sign Wilk long term, if it does not look good you franchise him.

OK but that decision doesn't have to be made now but Mo's situation does..In Mo's case if the team deals him they may get a asset back in the draft that could help if it's a 1st rd pick. If Sheldon and Snacks both go to pay Mo I contend he wont be the same player with them gone..Come  March and the April draft may answer the question on the teams decision.  

[Beerfish]

If I'm Mccagnan I'm trading Wilk for multiple picks and letting D'Brick go. I like both players, but keeping them here hamstrings what the Jets will be able to do this offseason.  Those two moves open up about $20M of cap space. You can sign a stop gap OT replacement and draft someone for the future. And with the new cap space, we can address our LBs and OL, while resigning Fitz and Harrison. 

 

Hey it might come to that for sure but that is taking an intentional step back and half the fans of this team will go all crazy if we do.  It comes down to can we actually get an acceptable LT to replace brick and what kind of picks are we talking about for Wilkerson.

[Beerfish]

OK but that decision doesn't have to be made now but Mo's situation does..In Mo's case if the team deals him they may get a asset back in the draft that could help if it's a 1st rd pick. If Sheldon and Snacks both go to pay Mo I contend he wont be the same player with them gone..Come  March and the April draft may answer the question on the teams decision.  

Sure they will get a decent asset for Wilkerson but unfortunately for the jets there are two issues.

1)  This draft is very deep at dline and DT, teams will look at it and say, why should we trade out pick(s) to get a guy that is going to cost us a fortune instead of drafting a good young guy?

2)  Suh, Hainsworth etc.  Going after dlineman and paying a cost to get him and then a big contract is iffy.

Remember if Wilk wants a boat load of money to the point that we need to deal him he is still going to want a boat load from any team trading for him.  (Just a pity rex is in our division, if he wasn't I could see the jets fleecing him on any number of ex jet players he likes.

[shuler82]

Hey it might come to that for sure but that is taking an intentional step back and half the fans of this team will go all crazy if we do.  It comes down to can we actually get an acceptable LT to replace brick and what kind of picks are we talking about for Wilkerson.

Yeah.. I started this offseason as wanting Wilk back no matter what, and thinking the talk of cutting Brick was crazy, but looking at the Jets cap situation, their pending FAs and where they need to improve, I now feel it makes a lot more sense to make both moves.  We need an edge rusher. We need an ILB to replace Davis. We're going to have to spend 7-9 on Fitz. We need RBs.  If Cro gets cut, do you have to bring in another CB? We'll need a DT to replace Harrison. What about TE?  If you can replace Brick with a cheap vet, and you trust Sheldon/Williams will make up for Mo, then I think you do it. And knowing this is only Mccagnan's 2nd offseason and he's still shaping this team and needs the flexibility, I wouldn't be shocked if he does. 

[Raideraholic]

 

You don't need four paragraphs to make a one sentence statement, jeeesus. I'm well aware of how to make a great 34 & 43 dline, but getting rid of argubaly your best player for a 3rd rounder is batsh*t f*cking crazy. 

If the Jets didn't want to lose there so called best player for a third rounder, why didn't they sign him to contract extension when they had the cap space to do so.( or trade him right after they drafted the cheaper Leonard Williams).  That what teams do when they want to keep their best players.  The Jets gambled that he wasn't going to have the year he had last year.( get more reasonable contract, and lost as he had his best season.

Now with limited cap space if your intentions are to tag and trade- it's very risky because there is no guarantee some team  going to want to pay him that much , and give up picks also. ( strong Fa 3-4 defense lineman Malik Jackson, and countless defense lineman in this year draft- way cheaper options).  That 16 million on your cap ( Jets can't trade him) is a pretty big hit when you're paying Revis Qb money too.      Will severly limit your free agents you can keep, and the free agents you would like to add this offseason.

Btw when you are trying to move Muhammad Wilkerson in a trade - free agency is starting.(that 16 million counting on your cap). While every team going free agent hunting, you're in a holding pattern.  The free agent you fancy might be long gone.

[Savage69]

If the Jets didn't want to lose there so called best player for a third rounder, why didn't they sign him to contract extension when they had the cap space to do so.( or trade him right after they drafted the cheaper Leonard Williams).  That what teams do when they want to keep their best players.  The Jets gambled that he wasn't going to have the year he had last year.( get more reasonable contract, and lost as he had his best season.

Now with limited cap space if your intentions are to tag and trade- it's very risky because there is no guarantee some team  going to want to pay him that much , and give up picks also. ( strong Fa 3-4 defense lineman Malik Jackson, and countless defense lineman in this year draft- way cheaper options).  That 16 million on your cap ( Jets can't trade him) is a pretty big hit when you're paying Revis Qb money too.      Will severly limit your free agents you can keep, and the free agents you would like to add this offseason.

I agree the Jets took a shot thinking maybe Turf Toe Mo may have a not so successful season and sign a reasonable deal and lost.. It will be interesting to see how this is resolved..

[BroadwayJoe12]

If the Jets didn't want to lose there so called best player for a third rounder, why didn't they sign him to contract extension when they had the cap space to do so.( or trade him right after they drafted the cheaper Leonard Williams).  That what teams do when they want to keep their best players.  The Jets gambled that he wasn't going to have the year he had last year.( get more reasonable contract, and lost as he had his best season.

Now with limited cap space if your intentions are to tag and trade- it's very risky because there is no guarantee some team  going to want to pay him that much , and give up picks also. ( strong Fa 3-4 defense lineman Malik Jackson, and countless defense lineman in this year draft- way cheaper options).  That 16 million on your cap ( Jets can't trade him) is a pretty big hit when you're paying Revis Qb money too.      Will severly limit your free agents you can keep, and the free agents you would like to add this offseason.

Btw when you are trying to move Muhammad Wilkerson in a trade - free agency is starting.(that 16 million counting on your cap). While every team going free agent hunting, you're in a holding pattern.  The free agent you fancy might be long gone.

Totally

[chirorob]

You don't need four paragraphs to make a one sentence statement, jeeesus. I'm well aware of how to make a great 34 & 43 dline, but getting rid of argubaly your best player for a 3rd rounder is batsh*t f*cking crazy. 

If he wants crazy money, you let him go, take the savings, re build some of the O Line and try not to mess up the 3rd rounder

[#27TheDominator]

We gave him $7M because we were gambling that he would suck? We are sh*tty gamblers.

[CrazyCarl40]

People keep touting Wilkerson as this great pass rusher who had 12 sacks. Let's take a closer look.

Wilkerson's Sacks in 2015:

1 Sack vs. Browns - 24-10 Jets lead 4th Quarter, 3rd Down. QB fumbles Jets recover. Jets win.

Half Sack vs. Eagles - 27-7 Eagles lead 3rd Quarter, 2nd Down. Eagles end up punting. Jets lose.

2 Sacks vs. Phins (London) 10-0 Jets 1st Quarter, 1st Down. Phins end up punting. (sack 2) 27-7 Jets 3rd Quarter, 1st Down. Phins Punt.

Half Sack vs. Skins - 10-7 Jets 2nd Quarter, 2nd Down. Redskins Punt, Jets win.

1 Sack vs. Pats (game 1) - 0-0 1st Quarter 3rd Down. Pats kick field goal, Jets lose.

2 Sacks vs. Bills (game 1) - 3-0 Jets 2nd quarter, 3rd Down. Bills punt. (sack 2) 19-3 Bills 3rd Quarter 2nd Down. Bills kick FG, Jets lose.

1 Sack vs. Dolphins (game 2) - 7-0 Jets 2nd quarter, 2nd Down. Phins Punt, Jets win.

1 Sack vs. Giants - 20-10 Giants 4th quarter, 2nd down. Giants intercepted, Jets win.

3 Sacks vs. Titans - 20-0 Jets 2nd Quarter, 1st Down. Titans punt. (sack 2) 27-0 Jets 2nd Q, 1st Down. Drive ends at halftime. (sack 3) 27-8 Jets 4th Quarter 2nd down. Titans turn it over on downs, Jets win.

Of his 12 sacks, 9 of them came on 1st or 2nd down (likely lined up next to Snacks).

Of his 12 sacks only 3 came in the 4th quarter; only one of those three was at a competitive point in the game.

Of his 12 sacks, none came in the last 3 weeks when the Jets needed to keep winning to stay alive.

Good player? Of course. Difference maker? Not really. His sacks changed maybe one outcome of a game. Realizing that sacks aren't the end all be all, but you guys are the ones touting them incessantly, so. There's some facts. Enjoy.