Report: Rams Move to #1 Pick in Trade

[LWC611]

3 hours ago, ChuckkieB said:

The Rams gave  up a lot, but you have to do whatever it takes to get what you believe is a franchise QB. They just better not be wrong!

The Rams got a lot from the DC Football team to move up, so I guess they are taking their shot.  You are right, they better not make the same mistake the DC Football team made.

[bitonti]

32 minutes ago, jetrider said:

How did you call it when yours was based on Collingsworth's mock which was posted first?

Also, neither of you have Lynch going in the first round. You still believe that? 

Reminds me of when Flacco wasn't deemed a first rounder cause his footwork needed help.

I built on Collinsworth's scenario and gave him credit as such. But he has them trading up for Wentz. it should also be noted that the entire internet saw Collinsworth's mock but everyone's had Tunsil at 1 regardless. 

as for Lynch I just don't value him as a first rounder. His bowl game vs Auburn was atrocious. His technique is super raw, he's like Geno Smith with better athleticism. flacco went to senior bowl and dominated. Lynch hasn't dominated for a while. 

 

BTW the league hasn't invited Lynch to NYC for draft night. 

[Paradis]

Yeah, they liked Flacco and got massively lucky he was still there after their trade down.  The article doesn't change anything.  When dealing with a Qb you really like, dicking around and saying, well he isn't worth 8 but he will be worth 26! most often gets you sitting there at 26 and lamenting that your guy got picked at 22 or something.  That would be like the Jets saying, hey we really like Paxton Lynch but on our board we have him at 28 overall so we will just trade down, grab a 3rd and take him there! 

x100000

You can't piss around with QBs. If you're taking about the difference between taking someone in the 2nd vs the 3rd then that's another story... But that story isn't about a franchise QB.

[Mogglez]

57 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Titans GM saying his phone is still open for business...

Mo for a couple of those top 76 picks would be nice.

Swap 15 for 20, and get two of their 3 second round picks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not doing that unless it's draft day and I can guarantee Paxton is there.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Beerfish said:

Yeah, they liked Flacco and got massively lucky he was still there after their trade down.  The article doesn't change anything.  When dealing with a Qb you really like, dicking around and saying, well he isn't worth 8 but he will be worth 26! most often gets you sitting there at 26 and lamenting that your guy got picked at 22 or something.  That would be like the Jets saying, hey we really like Paxton Lynch but on our board we have him at 28 overall so we will just trade down, grab a 3rd and take him there! 

You are approaching this from the point of view that Flacco was the only player to be had in the draft. They had 14 players ranked ahead of him, as in there are 14 players they would have drafted ahead of Flacco so there was no chance of drafting him at #8. But they clearly had him ranked higher than other teams, as it looked like he'd fall into the 20s. They only traded up because at that point it was too close and they had so many 3rd round picks anyway.

Again, you are looking at this through the lens of hindsight. You know now that Flacco was not a bust, and that they won a SB with him and because of his crazy post-season play that year. Back then? They loved him but even still they acknowledged that he had a low floor because of the lack of competition he faced. I think he had to transfer from Pitt because he couldn't win the starting job there over Tyler Palko.

Your post essentially says if you really like a QB at all, then you must take him with your top pick (and therefore it stands to reason you must trade up as high as you can to draft him, and repeat doing that every year until you hit paydirt). It's just not the case. There are other players to draft who were better prospects, other drafts to take a QB, etc.

You're looking at it based on your current knowledge that he wasn't a bust. 

[The Crusher]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan1015 said:

Paul Kuharsky ESPN Staff Writer 

The Tennessee Titans and Los Angeles Rams agreed to terms on a trade that would see Tennessee trade the number one overall pick, along with their fourth round (113 overall) and sixth round (177 overall) picks this year to the Rams, in exchange for the Rams first round pick (15), two second round (43 and 45) selections and third round (76) pick in 2016; along with the Rams first round pick and third round picks in the 2017 NFL Draft. The Titans now own nine selections in the 2016 Draft, including six of the top 76 picks in the draft.

Good gracious.  

[Beerfish]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

You are approaching this from the point of view that Flacco was the only player to be had in the draft. They had 14 players ranked ahead of him, as in there are 14 players they would have drafted ahead of Flacco so there was no chance of drafting him at #8. But they clearly had him ranked higher than other teams, as it looked like he'd fall into the 20s. They only traded up because at that point it was too close and they had so many 3rd round picks anyway.

Again, you are looking at this through the lens of hindsight. You know now that Flacco was not a bust, and that they won a SB with him and because of his crazy post-season play that year. Back then? They loved him but even still they acknowledged that he had a low floor because of the lack of competition he faced. I think he had to transfer from Pitt because he couldn't win the starting job there over Tyler Palko.

Your post essentially says if you really like a QB at all, then you must take him with your top pick (and therefore it stands to reason you must trade up as high as you can to draft him, and repeat doing that every year until you hit paydirt). It's just not the case. There are other players to draft who were better prospects, other drafts to take a QB, etc.

You're looking at it based on your current knowledge that he wasn't a bust. 

Do you think I am blasting Balt for drafting a good Qb in flacco?  No.  I am refuting the notion that they thought he was a franchise QB and were massively shrewd to trade down and then get their guy at 26.  If they thought as highly about him as you indicated in some of your earlier posts then they would have gone and got him before he got to the later part of round one.

I think it was more like this.  We need a QB, we like Flacco but are not sure he is really a franchise guy so we'll chance it and if he is still on the board at such and such a pick we will trade back up to get him.

Any team that really honestly thinks a Qb is 'their guy' and pulls what Baltimore did will be standing there naked in the wind as some other team takes him or trades up ahead of them.  Using their formula to get a Qb you honestly think is your guy is a recipe for disaster.

Say what you will about Idzik but he did the exact right thing with Geno.  Needed a QB, didn;t think Geno was good enough to trade up for, waited till he dropped into their laps and then said, well we will take this guy now, we are not sure if he is the guy or not.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Beerfish said:

Do you think I am blasting Balt for drafting a good Qb in flacco?  No.  I am refuting the notion that they thought he was a franchise QB and were massively shrewd to trade down and then get their guy at 26.  If they thought as highly about him as you indicated in some of your earlier posts then they would have gone and got him before he got to the later part of round one.

I think it was more like this.  We need a QB, we like Flacco but are not sure he is really a franchise guy so we'll chance it and if he is still on the board at such and such a pick we will trade back up to get him.

Any team that really honestly thinks a Qb is 'their guy' and pulls what Baltimore did will be standing there naked in the wind as some other team takes him or trades up ahead of them.  Using their formula to get a Qb you honestly think is your guy is a recipe for disaster.

Say what you will about Idzik but he did the exact right thing with Geno.  Needed a QB, didn;t think Geno was good enough to trade up for, waited till he dropped into their laps and then said, well we will take this guy now, we are not sure if he is the guy or not.

 

Good Lord.

They were gushing over him. The freaking day they drafted him Ozzie Newsome announced he is the future of the franchise.

But just because they were gushing over him, and felt he would be a franchise QB for them, doesn't mean they weren't gushing even more over 14 other players they felt were better overall prospects.

[Villain The Foe]

19 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

 

Any team that really honestly thinks a Qb is 'their guy' and pulls what Baltimore did will be standing there naked in the wind as some other team takes him or trades up ahead of them.  Using their formula to get a Qb you honestly think is your guy is a recipe for disaster.

 

 

Though both sides are opinion....maybe Baltimore looks at things differently. Think about it. The Rams just gave up 2 years worth of draft picks for a QB that now MUST be a hit, yet Baltimore liked a guy but put themselves in a position to get him later, not necessarily based on how they felt about him (obviously the liked him enough to draft him) but more importantly playing the board. 

Maybe this is why Ozzie Newsome is considered the best GM in the league the past decade and a half. 

Yeah,  you may be right. Maybe the Ravens didnt covet Flacco with that amount of fervor, but their drafting philosophy has been pretty solid, especially when producing talent and ultimately getting to the playoffs ulitmately winning championships. 

I think its safe to say that we would never hear an Ozzie Newsome controlled franchise give up what the Rams gave up. They rather develop that QB that they can get in the middle of the first round while at the same time picking up picks on the back end while trading down to get their guy. 

To think that a guy like Ozzie Newsome couldnt do that is discrediting his excellence as a GM the past 2 decades. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Though both sides are opinion....maybe Baltimore looks at things differently. Think about it. The Rams just gave up 2 years worth of draft picks for a QB that now MUST be a hit, yet Baltimore liked a guy but put themselves in a position to get him later, not necessarily based on how they felt about him (obviously the liked him enough to draft him) but more importantly playing the board. 

Maybe this is why Ozzie Newsome is considered the best GM in the league the past decade and a half. 

Yeah,  you may be right. Maybe the Ravens didnt covet Flacco with that amount of fervor, but their drafting philosophy has been pretty solid, especially when producing talent and ultimately getting to the playoffs ulitmately winning championships. 

I think its safe to say that we would never hear an Ozzie Newsome controlled franchise give up what the Rams gave up. They rather develop that QB that they can get in the middle of the first round while at the same time picking up picks on the back end while trading down to get their guy. 

To think that a guy like Ozzie Newsome couldnt do that is discrediting his excellence as a GM the past 2 decades. 

Newsome announced he was the team's future the day they drafted him, not merely some wishywashy "hopefully he's our future QB and we'll give him a chance to compete" language.

Beerfish is just lashing out at me whenever/wherever he thinks he sees the opportunity at this point, even if it's over nothing (like this). He's just so angry over losing so many consecutive arguments. 

[Beerfish]

7 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Though both sides are opinion....maybe Baltimore looks at things differently. Think about it. The Rams just gave up 2 years worth of draft picks for a QB that now MUST be a hit, yet Baltimore liked a guy but put themselves in a position to get him later, not necessarily based on how they felt about him (obviously the liked him enough to draft him) but more importantly playing the board. 

Maybe this is why Ozzie Newsome is considered the best GM in the league the past decade and a half. 

Yeah,  you may be right. Maybe the Ravens didnt covet Flacco with that amount of fervor, but their drafting philosophy has been pretty solid, especially when producing talent and ultimately getting to the playoffs ulitmately winning championships. 

I think its safe to say that we would never hear an Ozzie Newsome controlled franchise give up what the Rams gave up. They rather develop that QB that they can get in the middle of the first round while at the same time picking up picks on the back end while trading down to get their guy. 

To think that a guy like Ozzie Newsome couldnt do that is discrediting his excellence as a GM the past 2 decades. 

They picked the right guy, had the right team and were lucky.  The Jets drafted Geno and Clemens in the 2nd round and both flopped.  Tons of 1st rounders flop  (Ponder, Locker, Manuel etc etc).  It's the right method if you kind of like a guy but are not sure if he is going to be the guy or not.  It's not the right method if you really love a guy.  The Jets history is filled with guys we didn't go up and get.

Ozzie deserves credit for a lot of how he conducts himself re drafting and team building but the Flacco situation was not something to pattern yourself after on how to get your franchise Qb. 

(As an aside Flacco imo is somewhat overrated as a QB and for sure over paid, the ravens had to essentially disassemble their team becasue Flacco had to get paid.)

[cant wait]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Newsome announced he was the team's future - not merely some wishywashy "hopefully he's our future QB" language - the day they drafted him. 

Beerfish is just lashing out at me whenever/wherever he thinks he sees the opportunity at this point, even if it's over nothing like this. He's just so angry over losing so many consecutive arguments. 

In fairness though they could have felt highly about flacco and their plan B option if flacco wasn't available. I don't think it's a coincidence that good teams never put all their eggs in one basket

[Beerfish]

17 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Good Lord.

They were gushing over him. The freaking day they drafted him Ozzie Newsome announced he is the future of the franchise.

But just because they were gushing over him, and felt he would be a franchise QB for them, doesn't mean they weren't gushing even more over 14 other players they felt were better overall prospects.

Then ozzie was flat out lucky and his method of getting his guy was flat out luck, not shrewd gming.  You talked about hindsight earlier in this thread but touting this as a great way to get your Wb is the ultimate in hind sight.

I'll list my jets example again for this draft.  The Jets really like Paxton Lynch but he is 28 on their board overall.  Do they stay at 20 and take him or do they trade down?

[Il Mostro]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Titans GM saying his phone is still open for business...

Mo for a couple of those top 76 picks would be nice.

Swap 15 for 20, and get two of their 3 second round picks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Titans need as many viable players as they can get.  If anything they will want to turn their pick at 15 into multiple picks in the first 3 rounds.  This is the year they are trying to load up.

[SayNoToDMC]

****, even Idzik could slip and fall into some impact players with that haul and they've already got the QB. I've changed my mind on bringing back Fitz we need to tank with Geno

[Sperm Edwards]

6 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Then ozzie was flat out lucky and his method of getting his guy was flat out luck, not shrewd gming.  You talked about hindsight earlier in this thread but touting this as a great way to get your Wb is the ultimate in hind sight.

I'll list my jets example again for this draft.  The Jets really like Paxton Lynch but he is 28 on their board overall.  Do they stay at 20 and take him or do they trade down?

Did I tout this as a great way of getting our Wb (is that wubbie or QB)? What I've been saying is if a player is 15th on your own board, and particularly if you figure there's a good chance you like him better than most, you don't take him at #8. 

They are capable of thinking 2 things at the same time: they can like him enough to believe he could be their franchise QB and they can also have 14 players ranked ahead of him. Ergo, they can feel he is good enough to be their franchise QB and still pass on him at #8 overall. Their whole trade-down strategy was all about getting Flacco, but not burning the 8th pick in the country on him.

They didn't get "lucky" that their guy was still there at 17 so much as they got "lucky" that their guy was good enough to play lights-out in a SB run.

The Bengals liked Dalton plenty, or they wouldn't have taken him barely outside the 1st round. Because they believe he can be their franchise QB doesn't therefore mean they should have taken him at #4 overall instead of AJ Green.

I seriously have no idea why you're picking an argument with me over this. 

[Paradis]

Titans need as many viable players as they can get.  If anything they will want to turn their pick at 15 into multiple picks in the first 3 rounds.  This is the year they are trying to load up.

Eh. To an extent. You can't roster 14 rookies. At some point you have to go quality over quantity.

[Paradis]

Did I tout this as a great way of getting our Wb (is that wubbie or QB)? What I've been saying is if a player is 15th on your own board, and particularly if you figure there's a good chance you like him better than most, you don't take him at #8. 

They are capable of thinking 2 things at the same time: they can like him enough to believe he could be their franchise QB and they can also have 14 players ranked ahead of him. Ergo, they can feel he is good enough to be their franchise QB and still pass on him at #8 overall. Their whole trade-down strategy was all about getting Flacco, but not burning the 8th pick in the country on him.

They didn't get "lucky" that their guy was still there at 17 so much as they got "lucky" that their guy was good enough to play lights-out in a SB run.

The Bengals liked Dalton plenty, or they wouldn't have taken him barely outside the 1st round. Because they believe he can be their franchise QB doesn't therefore mean they should have taken him at #4 overall instead of AJ Green.

I seriously have no idea why you're picking an argument with me over this. 

Sound logic, but I do not believe that's applicable when you're handling the prospect of drafting a franchise QB.

For 2/3 of the NFL who haven't been blessed with a brees or a manning for decades - drafting their QB is a task one approaches with a different set of rules and strategy.

[cant wait]

11 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Then ozzie was flat out lucky and his method of getting his guy was flat out luck, not shrewd gming.  You talked about hindsight earlier in this thread but touting this as a great way to get your Wb is the ultimate in hind sight.

I'll list my jets example again for this draft.  The Jets really like Paxton Lynch but he is 28 on their board overall.  Do they stay at 20 and take him or do they trade down?

You gotta realize also under the old CBA, the rookie pay scale was much higher before they put the cap in place. Drafting a project QB that high was much riskier because the slotted money was a team killer if the player didn't pan out (I.e. Sanchez money) so you have to factor in the financial risk involved with that pick as well

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Eh. To an extent. You can't roster 14 rookies. At some point you have to go quality over quantity.

Yeah. What they could do, though, if they traded down in round 1 again, is move up using some of those later picks. Or just trade some of them away to next year (and then next year, if they have "too many" picks they can trade up, trade one or more for a round higher in 2018, or trade pick(s) for a veteran player).

But I think it's trying to be a bit too clever. They should do nothing right now and see how the draft starts to play out. If there is a LT that gets within reach, where they "only" have to give up a 3rd rounder, or even a 2nd rounder, then they should pounce on the opportunity. They simply must come away from this draft with some solid (if not premiere) blocking for Mariota, who took a beating last year. 

[Il Mostro]

10 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Eh. To an extent. You can't roster 14 rookies. At some point you have to go quality over quantity.

What quality over quantity? If the reports that there is little falloff in quality from the middle of round 1 through rounds 2 and 3 are accurate, it makes sense for the Titans to trade down.   Having all these picks is great currency that does not have to be spent in one draft.  With multiple picks they can negotiate favorably with teams who want to move up for specific players, turning the compensation into higher picks in future drafts.  This is the perfect situation for a forward thinking team that needs help at almost every position, and I think that is how their GM is playing it.  They aren't going to fix it in a year, so loading up is a sound approach.

[Paradis]

What quality over quantity? If the reports that there is little falloff in quality from the middle of round 1 through rounds 2 and 3 are accurate, it makes sense for the Titans to trade down.   Having all these picks is great currency that does not have to be spent in one draft.  With multiple picks they can negotiate favorably with teams who want to move up for specific players, turning the compensation into higher picks in future drafts.  This is the perfect situation for a forward thinking team that needs help at almost every position, and I think that is how their GM is playing it.

If I was them, I'd pick the 3-4 players I value the most and move to get them.

[Beerfish]

2 minutes ago, cant wait said:

You gotta realize also under the old CBA, the rookie pay scale was much higher before they put the cap in place. Drafting a project QB that high was much riskier because the slotted money was a team killer if the player didn't pan out (I.e. Sanchez money) so you have to factor in the financial risk involved with that pick as well

I totally agree this.  My only major beef with the whole Flacco thing in this thread was it being portrayed that he was 100% their franchise guy and they felt that way before their moves and a bent that Baltimore and ozzie was was blueprint for getting your guy.  Trading down then trading up to get your franchise guy and having that work out the way it did is the exception to the rule imo.

In any case we have taken this tangent pretty far in a thread that is supposed to be about Tenn/LA Rams.  I'll let spree have the last word on this one.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

 

Sound logic, but I do not believe that's applicable when you're handling the prospect of drafting a franchise QB.

For 2/3 of the NFL who haven't been blessed with a brees or a manning for decades - drafting their QB is a task one approaches with a different set of rules and strategy.

If he was ranked that much higher on their board then, QB position or not, Flacco wouldn't have been only the 15th player on their board. Why is this difficult to grasp? He was not their 8th ranked prospect.

[Paradis]

If he was ranked that much higher on their board then, QB position or not, Flacco wouldn't have been only the 15th player on their board. Why is this difficult to grasp? He was not their 8th ranked prospect.

So BAL was a bit of an anomaly. Let's move on and get back to the jets trading into the top 10 for Lynch

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

I totally agree this.  My only major beef with the whole Flacco thing in this thread was it being portrayed that he was 100% their franchise guy and they felt that way before their moves and a bent that Baltimore and ozzie was was blueprint for getting your guy.  Trading down then trading up to get your franchise guy and having that work out the way it did is the exception to the rule imo.

In any case we have taken this tangent pretty far in a thread that is supposed to be about Tenn/LA Rams.  I'll let spree have the last word on this one.

They did feel that way. Their moves were done specifically to target Flacco and grab other pick(s) in the process. 

The rest of your comments, as though this was being touted as a blueprint or something, are either things you are making up or you are hearing voices in your head. 

That pick by Baltimore pertained to a specific draft with a specific player with a specific team ranking and expected draft slot/availability. In no way does this therefore mean it pertains to all other QBs in all other drafts and nobody said it did except you, in order to make your straw man argument. 

[Sperm Edwards]

7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I'll let spree have the last word on this one.

You shouldn't call me spree. My sister called me spree once. 

ONCE.

[nj meadowlands]

I wonder if the Jets will draft Lynch at 20

[greenwichjetfan]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You shouldn't call me spree. My sister called me spree once. 

ONCE.

I must be missing something.

Sprees are delightful! 

[Sperm Edwards]

5 minutes ago, Paradis said:

So BAL was a bit of an anomaly. Let's move on and get back to the jets trading into the top 10 for Lynch

Of course it was an anomaly, but that doesn't change what happened or the reasons behind it.

Back to Lynch...you think we still need to trade up that high to get him? I mean, Baltimore didn't need to take Flacco that high and in fact traded down. 

OK, I couldn't resist. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, greenwichjetfan said:

I must be missing something.

Sprees are delightful! 

CHEWY Spree? Blasphemy. I am an original Spree purist.

[RutgersJetFan]

4 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

I wonder if the Jets will draft Lynch at 20

I have wondered that too. I have also wondered about other things aside from this.

[kelly]

1 hour ago, jetrider said:

How did you call it when yours was based on Collingsworth's mock which was posted first?

Also, neither of you have Lynch going in the first round. You still believe that? 

Reminds me of when Flacco wasn't deemed a first rounder cause his footwork needed help.

just an fyi.. p.lynch is a 2nd rounder... he might slip into the 3rd    

 

 

 

cheers ~ ~ 

[greenwichjetfan]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

CHEWY Spree? Blasphemy. I am an original Spree purist.

If ya aint chewin, you're suckin...

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

If ya aint chewin, you're suckin...

Want to see my moderator video application?