..did the jets " REACH " in the 1st round of this draft ? ? ?

[kelly]

JETS REACHED IN FIRST-ROUND

Pro Football Focus likes Darron Lee as a player but thought he should not have been taken in the first round. Lee's a good athlete, but that doesn't always translate to coverage ability. Potential busts (Insider)

> http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/nyj/new-york-jets

 

~ ~ Picking the 2016 draft picks most likely to be busts

• 
  Steve PalazzoloSpecial to ESPN.com

•  
•  
•  
•  
•  
• Email
• comment

Though the label of "bust" gets attached to players, it's often the team that should get the blame for drafting the wrong prospect in the wrong spot.

With a high draft position comes high expectations, and unfairly or not, players will be judged against their peers. In some cases, Pro Football Focus may like the player, but not on the team that picked him and not at the spot where he was picked. In other cases, players simply shouldn't be taken in the first or second rounds.

Here's a look at 10 players most likely to not live up to their draft spot, using PFF data to back up our assertions.

Darron Lee, LB, New York Jets

First round, No. 20 overall

PFF likes Lee as a player, but we didn't think he should have been taken in the first round. The skills for which he was drafted have not been up to par the last two years. His coverage grade ranked 73rd among linebackers in 2015, and he posted a negative grade in 2014. The expectation is that Lee will become a three-down linebacker with coverage versatility, but he wasn't effective in that role at Ohio State. Lee's a good athlete, however, and it shows up in the run game and as a pass-rusher, where his +8.2 rush grade was among the nation's best in 2015. But athleticism should not be synonymous with coverage ability, and Lee has a ways to go as a coverage player before warranting that first-round selection.

>     http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2016/insider/story/_/id/15459868/2016-nfl-draft-most-likely-draft-busts-2016-class-darron-lee-new-york-jets

[Kleckomania]

Every pick was a reach except for Jenkins and Peake imo.  I hope I am a wrong

[NYs Stepchild]

Stupid. PFF is notoriously bad at giving passing grades. That's how Landry was a top 3 coverage safety.

They don't differentiate coverage assignments. So a LB could be rushing the passer and bat down a pass and get a PD without covering anyone.

Then a LB like Jet Lee can cover a receiver from the slot, which he did a lot. Pass him off to another zone and get penalized because no one picks him up. 

PFF has it's place but grading coverage ability is not one of them. The fact that Lee was given slot receiver coverage assignments speaks to how much ability he has.

[SenorGato]

I'd lean more towards him being one of the safest 10 picks in the first round than one of the 10 most likely to bust. What this pick can be knocked for is not being a QB or edge rusher, but beyond that it's as good as they could have done.

[Integrity28]

4 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

I'd lean more towards him being one of the safest 10 picks in the first round than one of the 10 most likely to bust. What this pick can be knocked for is not being a QB or edge rusher, but beyond that it's as good as they could have done.

[dbatesman]

6 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

I'd lean more towards him being one of the safest 10 picks in the first round than one of the 10 most likely to bust. What this pick can be knocked for is not being a QB or edge rusher, but beyond that it's as good as they could have done.

+1

[kelly]

8 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

I'd lean more towards him being one of the safest 10 picks in the first round than one of the 10 most likely to bust. What this pick can be knocked for is not being a QB or edge rusher, but beyond that it's as good as they could have done.

yup !..

 

 

 

cheers ~ ~ 

[Villain The Foe]

Maybe PFF should have mentioned that Lee was covering alot in the slot because of injuries more than he ever did in 2014. However, his role on this team will not be to cover slot receivers but to seek runners from the backside (Weak Inside Linebacker),  travel sideline to sideline, A-Gap Blitz as well as cover tight ends.  

The fact that PFF even started out talking about possibly drafting wrong players in the wrong slot shows that they dont go by their own words. Bowles has no reason to put Lee in the slot for the majority of the season, it defeats the purpose of having all of these CB's. However, having him blitz or covering the TE on the seam is a different story....something that they should have mentioned. Crappy ass article. 

 

I will say this though, im really not impressed with Lee's tape so far when thinking about who we left on the board (Myles Jack). He has "hesity feet" around the action and is somewhat similar to Vernon Gholston. Lee alot of times is around the action but not really part of the action. What I will say is that he's a really solid blitzer. I dont know what Myles Jack speed is (no combine/pro day results) but when watching him play his instincts are elite. 

 

I believe Bowles has a plan specifically for Lee's attributes, which in that respect makes the pick relevant. 

 

[derp]

The Jack-Lee comparison is an interesting one. Was thinking today, obviously you have no idea on the medical and didn't know he'd be there at the time or how things would change but...pending the ripple effect from trading down, the Jets could have in theory made that trade with the Cowboys and gotten Jack at 34 instead of Lee and had an extra third round pick to play with.

[PCP63]

PFF it's just a bunch of stat nerds that have never kissed a girl or played a down of football past high school.

 

I appreciate in depth stats, but sometimes numbers don't tell the whole story.

[Snell41]

Every mock I saw pre-draft had Lee as top 15, how is he a reach exactly?

[Jet Nut]

We get a guy most had top 15 at 20 and PFF questions if he was a reach?

Not a reach of a couple of spots, but a reach as in he should have been drafted in the 2nd round?  Ok

Why bother to post this nonsense?  

 

[BroadwayJoe12]

21 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Maybe PFF should have mentioned that Lee was covering alot in the slot because of injuries more than he ever did in 2014. However, his role on this team will not be to cover slot receivers but to seek runners from the backside (Weak Inside Linebacker),  travel sideline to sideline, A-Gap Blitz as well as cover tight ends.  

The fact that PFF even started out talking about possibly drafting wrong players in the wrong slot shows that they dont go by their own words. Bowles has no reason to put Lee in the slot for the majority of the season, it defeats the purpose of having all of these CB's. However, having him blitz or covering the TE on the seam is a different story....something that they should have mentioned. Crappy ass article. 

 

I will say this though, im really not impressed with Lee's tape so far when thinking about who we left on the board (Myles Jack). He has "hesity feet" around the action and is somewhat similar to Vernon Gholston. Lee alot of times is around the action but not really part of the action. What I will say is that he's a really solid blitzer. I dont know what Myles Jack speed is (no combine/pro day results) but when watching him play his instincts are elite. 

 

I believe Bowles has a plan specifically for Lee's attributes, which in that respect makes the pick relevant. 

 

How is one a really solid blitzer, but yet not really part of the action? Hesity? 

 

Sidenote: it's possible having only played LB for 3 years has not afforded him with the quicker reaction of others as of yet. 

[Colgateman]

I would take 10 years of solid pro bowl play from lee over maybe 5 with jack.

thats just me, lee was the best linebacker available with no injury concerns. Lee was the third best LB in the draft, but the other twos knees were busted up.

[BroadwayJoe12]

45 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

I'd lean more towards him being one of the safest 10 picks in the first round than one of the 10 most likely to bust. What this pick can be knocked for is not being a QB or edge rusher, but beyond that it's as good as they could have done.

Agreed. Lee's athleticism is unquestionable, but what gets me excited is that he's still just 21 and relatively new playing his position.  Between him and Jenkins, we drafted two of the most athletic LBs in the entire draft. Their SPARQ scores were impressive and yea, I would have liked to have seen more production like we did with Shazier, but I think their talent isn't in question, just a matter of using them properly. 

[KRL]

1 hour ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Stupid. PFF is notoriously bad at giving passing grades. That's how Landry was a top 3 coverage safety.

They don't differentiate coverage assignments. So a LB could be rushing the passer and bat down a pass and get a PD without covering anyone.

Then a LB like Jet Lee can cover a receiver from the slot, which he did a lot. Pass him off to another zone and get penalized because no one picks him up. 

PFF has it's place but grading coverage ability is not one of them. The fact that Lee was given slot receiver coverage assignments speaks to how much ability he has.

Those morons rating Dawan Landry as a top notch safety when he played for us told me all I need to know about their

"rating system"

[whodeawhodat]

11 minutes ago, BroadwayJoe12 said:

Agreed. Lee's athleticism is unquestionable, but what gets me excited is that he's still just 21 and relatively new playing his position.  Between him and Jenkins, we drafted two of the most athletic LBs in the entire draft. Their SPARQ scores were impressive and yea, I would have liked to have seen more production like we did with Shazier, but I think their talent isn't in question, just a matter of using them properly. 

ESPN was gushing over Jenkins yesterday.  both look solid and Mac loves him some young LBs

[JiFtheOracle]

I think he's a reach based on the positoin he plays, his size and what he brings to the table is only really valuable on 1 or 2 downs.  That skill, can be found in any round of the draft.  There were at least 5 guys with the exact same skill set just not the measurable athlete of Lee that were taken in rounds 2-4.  

The biggest thing that worries me, is he's never seen a blocker in his entire life.  He just roamed free his entire college career.  It will be interesting to see how he transitions.   Most of his sacks came on blitzes where he went untouched to the QB.  In the NFL, the ball comes out a lot quicker and QB's know how to roll protection.  

Only a 2 year player, minimal production.  Of his 11 sacks, 9 of them came vs. the likes of Kent St., Rutgers, Penn St., Hawaii, and Va Tech. 

There is no doubt what he's expected to bring to the table is a valuable commodity.  Is it a 1st round level of value?  Hell no. The best guys in the NFL that do what he does were 2nd day+ picks. 

All good though.  Hopefully he's a stud and can develop into a 3 down player.  

 

[faba]

Speed ewas lacking in Jets defense Lee brings that dimension-Bowles can get him free in space believe

[Larz]

math n sh*t ?

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, SenorGato said:

I'd lean more towards him being one of the safest 10 picks in the first round than one of the 10 most likely to bust. What this pick can be knocked for is not being a QB or edge rusher, but beyond that it's as good as they could have done.

Yep. Thing is when it's time to decide whether or not to exercise the 5th year option, if it was a QB or edge rusher (or LT) it's a no-brainer if he's good.

An ILB? Meh, I don't know that it's such a slam dunk to exercise an ILBs (present cost) $8.4M option that would make him the 5th highest-paid ILB in the NFL (on an annualized basis). The problem is the 5th yr option amount is determined by averaging in the top 10 of ALL LBs, not just the top 10 ILBs, so it makes his 5th yr option relatively more expensive. On the flip side, a LT (like Tunsil, who we made an effort to move up and grab) has a 5th yr option of like under $500K difference to an ILB, yet LT is a far more expensive position in FA (both in contract average and especially in guaranteed $). 

The result is if he's merely a good ILB, we would probably opt for a contract extension without the 5th yr option for him, and in doing so would lose what should be a "cheap" 5th season before his 2nd contract is up or into its meaty years. For a QB, LT, outside pass rusher, we'd get an extra season added to the rookie deal at less than his extension-average would be. Say EJ Manuel was even on par with Osweiller. His 5th yr option would be a relative bargain at $11M. Compare that to the monster deal that Osweiller commanded (and the extra risk as well, since he hasn't played much). 

A fast ILB was a need, for sure, but I still don't think the position is great value in round 1 compared to positions that cost $5-10M/yr more to bring in another via free agency. Now that's if all other things are equal, of course. A good ILB is better than a bust QB, edge rusher, LT, CB, etc. But if they were equally good performers for their respective positions, ILB isn't the best value for a round 1 pick. It really should at least partly color their list order. This doesn't make Lee a reach; it just means he has to be that much better to justify the selection of that position.

Oddly enough, the only defensive position that represents worse value is safety, which we just used a 1st round pick on 2 years prior. So we draft the cheap positions, and either sign veterans or trade for veterans at the expensive positions. Lets logic FTW.

[Villain The Foe]

4 hours ago, BroadwayJoe12 said:

How is one a really solid blitzer, but yet not really part of the action? Hesity? 

 

Sidenote: it's possible having only played LB for 3 years has not afforded him with the quicker reaction of others as of yet. 

Because blitzing a QB is not the same as everything else that is not blitzing the QB. 

Sidenote: because a guy has only been a LB for 3 years shouldnt keep me from stating the obvious. It wasnt a shot at him, but simply an observation. Easy my friend. 

[Tinstar]

Possibly, but on the football field, if you're going to make a mistake it's better to do it running 4.4 .

[Jet9]

You know how some sites let you block certain posters? Can we set it up where I can block any thread that references PFF? A huge part of me wants to assume these guys don't look at much actual FOOTBALL play. 

 

I also need to say that saying 'Well, then PFF is wrong', doesn't make one a Luddite. Same goes for all the Corsi people in hockey. Just saw a 'stat' the other day called 'Saves Made Above Expectations'. Oh FFS!

[sirlancemehlot]

5 hours ago, PCP63 said:

PFF it's just a bunch of stat nerds that have never kissed a girl or played a down of football past high school.

 

I appreciate in depth stats, but sometimes numbers don't tell the whole story.

Exactly.  they rave about his run stopping for instance.  It's his biggest weakness as per every draft scout.  Then they knock his coverage ability when coverage is his obvious strong suit, and he was used in man coverage extensively at Ohio State.  Fact is, he grades poorly because he's taking on more coverage and handling more athletic receivers than most other LB's.  He grades well against the run because he's got horses in front of him, including Bosa, and can range sideline to sideline.  But all the tape shows he can't shed a block and gets engulfed at the point of attack.  He'll be fine in coverage.  He'll need some 4-3 alignments on running downs or he's going to get pounded until he puts on some weight in a year or two.

[UnknownJetFan]

Yea, this was why most suggested the Giants should have taken Lee at 10 spot instead of Eli Apple.

[Tony The Wiz]

7 hours ago, kelly said:

JETS REACHED IN FIRST-ROUND

Pro Football Focus likes Darron Lee as a player but thought he should not have been taken in the first round. Lee's a good athlete, but that doesn't always translate to coverage ability. Potential busts (Insider)

> http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/nyj/new-york-jets

 

~ ~ Picking the 2016 draft picks most likely to be busts

• 
  Steve PalazzoloSpecial to ESPN.com

•  
•  
•  
•  
•  
• Email
• comment

Though the label of "bust" gets attached to players, it's often the team that should get the blame for drafting the wrong prospect in the wrong spot.

With a high draft position comes high expectations, and unfairly or not, players will be judged against their peers. In some cases, Pro Football Focus may like the player, but not on the team that picked him and not at the spot where he was picked. In other cases, players simply shouldn't be taken in the first or second rounds.

Here's a look at 10 players most likely to not live up to their draft spot, using PFF data to back up our assertions.

Darron Lee, LB, New York Jets

First round, No. 20 overall

PFF likes Lee as a player, but we didn't think he should have been taken in the first round. The skills for which he was drafted have not been up to par the last two years. His coverage grade ranked 73rd among linebackers in 2015, and he posted a negative grade in 2014. The expectation is that Lee will become a three-down linebacker with coverage versatility, but he wasn't effective in that role at Ohio State. Lee's a good athlete, however, and it shows up in the run game and as a pass-rusher, where his +8.2 rush grade was among the nation's best in 2015. But athleticism should not be synonymous with coverage ability, and Lee has a ways to go as a coverage player before warranting that first-round selection.

>     http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2016/insider/story/_/id/15459868/2016-nfl-draft-most-likely-draft-busts-2016-class-darron-lee-new-york-jets

Exactly where he should of went and yes the Jets should and did draft him. 

[Jetmech]

Maybe PFF should have mentioned that Lee was covering alot in the slot because of injuries more than he ever did in 2014. However, his role on this team will not be to cover slot receivers but to seek runners from the backside (Weak Inside Linebacker),  travel sideline to sideline, A-Gap Blitz as well as cover tight ends.  

The fact that PFF even started out talking about possibly drafting wrong players in the wrong slot shows that they dont go by their own words. Bowles has no reason to put Lee in the slot for the majority of the season, it defeats the purpose of having all of these CB's. However, having him blitz or covering the TE on the seam is a different story....something that they should have mentioned. Crappy ass article. 

 

I will say this though, im really not impressed with Lee's tape so far when thinking about who we left on the board (Myles Jack). He has "hesity feet" around the action and is somewhat similar to Vernon Gholston. Lee alot of times is around the action but not really part of the action. What I will say is that he's a really solid blitzer. I dont know what Myles Jack speed is (no combine/pro day results) but when watching him play his instincts are elite. 

 

I believe Bowles has a plan specifically for Lee's attributes, which in that respect makes the pick relevant. 

 

Forget Jack based in injury concerns, who would you have picked instead of Lee?

Remember the Jets were reportedly close to trading their pick to Dallas so was Lee being there stopped it or wasn't enough in return...

[Villain The Foe]

30 minutes ago, Jetmech said:

Forget Jack based in injury concerns, who would you have picked instead of Lee?

Remember the Jets were reportedly close to trading their pick to Dallas so was Lee being there stopped it or wasn't enough in return...

I remember, and I dont think Lee is a bad pick. I was just stating the obvious from his tape. The Dallas trade didnt go through because Dallas didnt want to swap 4th round picks. If I remember correctly the deal was for Dallas to give the Jets their 2nd round pick and 3rd round pick. The Jets said they'll take that but they also wanted to swap 4th round picks but Dallas refused to do so and the trade didnt go thorugh.

The trade was stopped because Dallas didnt want to swap 4's.

 

Lee is a good player, but he still has ALOT of learning to do. He's more of an athlete than he is an actual Linebacker. There's nothing wrong with that, we needed speed and when you need things like that you get athletic guys.

[Jetmech]

I remember, and I dont think Lee is a bad pick. I was just stating the obvious from his tape. The Dallas trade didnt go through because Dallas didnt want to swap 4th round picks. If I remember correctly the deal was for Dallas to give the Jets their 2nd round pick and 3rd round pick. The Jets said they'll take that but they also wanted to swap 4th round picks but Dallas refused to do so and the trade didnt go thorugh.

The trade was stopped because Dallas didnt want to swap 4's.

 

Lee is a good player, but he still has ALOT of learning to do. He's more of an athlete than he is an actual Linebacker. There's nothing wrong with that, we needed speed and when you need things like that you get athletic guys.

I wasn't aware that was the snag in the trade. If anything it shows their not locked into players and I'm assuming was the BPA..

[Villain The Foe]

4 hours ago, Jetmech said:

I wasn't aware that was the snag in the trade. If anything it shows their not locked into players and I'm assuming was the BPA..

Think about it. The Laramey Tunsil situation, Miles Jack situation changed alot of boards. Add to that the Giants taking Eli Apple, the Raiders taking Karl Joseph (Which was wild that people had Joseph as a 2nd round talent when he was the best safety in the nation in my eyes), Jack Conklin being a top 8 pick (who the hell saw that coming?) etc., what occurred was alot of top talent ended up being pushed down the board (Tunsil @ 13, Jack a 2nd rounder, etc).

The Jets were in a situation where they could have traded down and still got a top 5 talent in the second round. No one thought Myles Jack was going to be a day 2 guy. Im not sure if Lee would have still been there but maybe he would have. 

At the end of the day though the Jets felt strongly enough with the talent (Lee) at the 20 spot than feeling like they had no choice but to trade back because a #20 pick was too rich for the talent left on the board. 

 

Sometimes its just better to take your man if you like him. This is the situation with Hackenberg. Fans are crying about how he would have been available in the 3rd. Sure he could have, it doesnt mean that he would have lasted until the Jets 3rd round pick....which means that the Jets would have missed out on a guy that they like because they want to play games. 
 

If you see a guy you like, draft him. Let the fans and the critics argue over decisions they have absolutely no control over anyway. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

I don't think Lee is a reach at all. I would have gone with Treadwell there but that's really a small thing. I think I had the two of them and Lawson as 9-10-11 overall. Seems like we had a pretty good idea where we stood and ended up opting for the elite athlete. Can't ask a whole lot more at 20.

[House Jet]

29 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

I don't think Lee is a reach at all. I would have gone with Treadwell there but that's really a small thing. I think I had the two of them and Lawson as 9-10-11 overall. Seems like we had a pretty good idea where we stood and ended up opting for the elite athlete. Can't ask a whole lot more at 20.

Dude I was screaming for treadwell. I feel you on that one. I like Lee though. I think he fits what we were looking for. He's fast, athletic and just looks like a football player. I know he doesn't have much experience as a LB but its not a gholston situation where he started football late. I think he'll turn out to be a pretty good pick.

[Jetmech]

Think about it. The Laramey Tunsil situation, Miles Jack situation changed alot of boards. Add to that the Giants taking Eli Apple, the Raiders taking Karl Joseph (Which was wild that people had Joseph as a 2nd round talent when he was the best safety in the nation in my eyes), Jack Conklin being a top 8 pick (who the hell saw that coming?) etc., what occurred was alot of top talent ended up being pushed down the board (Tunsil @ 13, Jack a 2nd rounder, etc).

The Jets were in a situation where they could have traded down and still got a top 5 talent in the second round. No one thought Myles Jack was going to be a day 2 guy. Im not sure if Lee would have still been there but maybe he would have. 

At the end of the day though the Jets felt strongly enough with the talent (Lee) at the 20 spot than feeling like they had no choice but to trade back because a #20 pick was too rich for the talent left on the board. 

 

Sometimes its just better to take your man if you like him. This is the situation with Hackenberg. Fans are crying about how he would have been available in the 3rd. Sure he could have, it doesnt mean that he would have lasted until the Jets 3rd round pick....which means that the Jets would have missed out on a guy that they like because they want to play games. 

 

If you see a guy you like, draft him. Let the fans and the critics argue over decisions they have absolutely no control over anyway. 

I didn't follow this draft at all but even so there was a lot of juggling going on. I know value is everything but sometimes you have to go with your rankings.

[SayNoToDMC]

On 5/4/2016 at 2:42 PM, SenorGato said:

I'd lean more towards him being one of the safest 10 picks in the first round than one of the 10 most likely to bust. What this pick can be knocked for is not being a QB or edge rusher, but beyond that it's as good as they could have done.

This. I didn't love the pass coverage grade and I know they watch a lot more tape then I can, but they told me Kyle Wilson was the sh*t