Tiny Linebacker

[PepPep]

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Antonio Allen since departed did a good job vs tes. 

Great job against TEs! Its a devastating injury that did him in. A shame, really. 

[Kleckineau]

30 minutes ago, Harlemnite1 said:

Smidget

I prefer Pee-Wee-Lee

Might get that on his Jersey

[Beerfish]

Lee spotted at training camp.

[56mehl56]

2 hours ago, Obrien2Toon said:

What did Mainejet do to finally get banned?

Shot a poster and tied him to the roof of his truck

[k-met57]

57 minutes ago, Harlemnite1 said:

Not a fair comparison. Buccannon is a safety playing a hybrid spot. He's a better in box guy than Lee will ever be.

who cares? its a team game. Lee fills a massive hole for us. lets see this nonsense when he is flying around the football in November because the big guys up front are holding their own.

and btw if u tell me we draft someone in the first round who is going to lock up TE's (gronk) i sign up for that in a minute. guy kills us every single game.

[jgb]

12 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Shot a poster and tied him to the roof of his truck

Which poster? Maybe he should be made a mod.

[Beerfish]

5 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

who cares? its a team game. Lee fills a massive hole for us. lets see this nonsense when he is flying around the football in November because the big guys up front are holding their own.

and btw if u tell me we draft someone in the first round who is going to lock up TE's (gronk) i sign up for that in a minute. guy kills us every single game.

Gronk will toss this guy aside like his used under wear. 

Like always the thing you will hear on games is 'Oh you can't expect a LB to stay with a TE or RB, the offense will take that mismatch every time!

Having said all of this, the guy can be a good player but he has to make a lot of big plays as in create turnovers and get sacks for me to be happy about the pick.

[jgb]

7 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

who cares? its a team game. Lee fills a massive hole for us. lets see this nonsense when he is flying around the football in November because the big guys up front are holding their own.

and btw if u tell me we draft someone in the first round who is going to lock up TE's (gronk) i sign up for that in a minute. guy kills us every single game.

Talking about a Pats TE killing someone makes me snicker

[ZachEY]

12 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

who cares? its a team game. Lee fills a massive hole for us. lets see this nonsense when he is flying around the football in November because the big guys up front are holding their own.

and btw if u tell me we draft someone in the first round who is going to lock up TE's (gronk) i sign up for that in a minute. guy kills us every single game.

So glad that shutting down Gronk is the metric by which we are evaluating Lee.  Since, there's any other player in the league that's been able to do that consistently...

[PepPep]

Ok. So before the Jets took Lee, FOR ME, he was flying under the radar as a prospect the Jets might target. I thought they would be looking at T.Decker, Spence, Nkemdiche (b/c I thought Wilk would get traded), P.Lynch and Treadwell.   

Once the Jets drafted him, I started looking closer at him as a prospect (draft profiles, measurables, stats, tape) and really liked everything I saw and read.

First, let's start off with his character. This guy is a leader and as hard-working as they come. Coming out of high school as a QB he had to gain 35lbs and work his way onto a loaded OSU defense. Once he got the chance to play he was one of the standouts making impact play after impact play. His numbers don't lie.  3rd in tackles, 2nd in tackles for loss, 2nd in sacks on a team with Joey Bosa and Vonn Bell, just to name a couple draftees. Oh, and they won the nation championship. So he's a winner, a leader, a hard worker, and has no off field issues.  

Lee also has a nose for the ball. He has great field vision and awareness. Maybe this is something he gained when playing QB? But the fact is, he reads plays well, and is always around the ball. This is, in part, what makes him a play-maker and allows him to be versatile. Speaking of which. Don't put Lee in a box. He can do a little bit of everything and is just scratching the surface. He has the speed and ability to cover in man or zone. He can be an effective spy. He has a knack for shooting the gaps vs the run. He is fast and athletic enough to blitz off the edge. He can roam sideline to sideline and chase down RBs like a safety. He can literally do a little bit of everything defensively and well, in high school did pretty much everything as well- QB, WR, S, KR. Not that high school matters, but it shows he has always been a versatile athlete.   

The reason he was drafted in the first round is b/c of 2 things- speed and athleticism. This guys is a fantastic athlete and can fly all over the field. Elite athletes go early in the draft, unless they have major character concerns, history of injury or are extremely raw (projects). Lee has none of those issues.  

Forget about his size (I'm not even going to go into the fact that there's a slew of great LB's in the NFL that weight the same and stand just as tall), the above should tell you everything you need to now about this kid and his potential. 

You can put on tape and see some missed tackles and big TE's or O-linemen pushing Lee out of the play. But mostly, you will see him flying all over the field making plays, against the run, in coverage, as a blitzer and constantly being around the ball. 

I truly believe, at worst, he will be a jack of all trade type player who can do a little bit of everything but not really develop into an every down player. At best, he will be a versatile every down LB that can do it all, the type new hybrid LB that the NFL is transitioning to. It's definitely worth the gamble. Give the kid a chance. He will be playing on defense with a stacked D-line and a coach that knows how to utilize a player with his skills.          

[rex-n-effect]

So sad mainejet can't help himself but bitch and moan about everything with the team. 

There are other fans like that who cloister together on other forums where that kind of sh*tty attitude is welcome (TGG). No reason to keep polluting this place with this attitude when he would receive a king's welcome elsewhere.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Harlemnite1 said:

Not a fair comparison. Buccannon is a safety playing a hybrid spot. He's a better in box guy than Lee will ever be.

And you know this how?  You've seen him in the NFL how many times? 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

So we drafted a guy 20th overall to play two downs and cover tight ends.

If he can play well on those two downs, cover a Gronk, sitting one down a series means nothing

and was worth more than the 20th.

the hate and generalization for a player no one has seen, doesn't know how they will be used is baffling 

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

If he can play well on those two downs, cover a Gronk, sitting one down a series means nothing

and was worth more than the 20th.

the hate and generalization for a player no one has seen, doesn't know how they will be used is baffling 

Is it any better than the love the player that no one has seen?  The issues are as follows for me:

He is not going to cover gronk, he will get killed in that match up as do all smaller players (height and weight).  He is not going to be on the field for at least 1st down, maybe 2nd at times. Teams running a hurry up make 3rd down players even harder to get on the field.  He is not an elite pass rusher.  If you want to get a guy to cover, add a dime player.

He will only be worth more than 20 if he makes a lot of big plays, normally a 1st rounder top 20 pick is not a part time specialist.  We'll see.  I hope he makes all sorts of plays all over the field.

 

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, gEYno said:

So glad that shutting down Gronk is the metric by which we are evaluating Lee.  Since, there's any other player in the league that's been able to do that consistently...

In all fairness we once used a second rounder on a kicker because Brien choked in the playoffs, so if we are using high picks for situational stuffs this is a step up for us.

[thebuzzardman]

I'm hold this topic responsible for putting the annoying "Tiny Dancer" song in my head. 

[detectivekimble]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Gronk will toss this guy aside like his used under wear. 

Like always the thing you will hear on games is 'Oh you can't expect a LB to stay with a TE or RB, the offense will take that mismatch every time!

Having said all of this, the guy can be a good player but he has to make a lot of big plays as in create turnovers and get sacks for me to be happy about the pick.

Well, no one can cover Gronk one-on-one.  Gronk is a MISMATCH for anyone.  So not sure why you'd hold it against Lee if he can't cover Gronk one-on-one.  

[jamesr]

I see Lee more likely to cover your running backs out the backfield on wheel routes ... you know, the ones that usually killed is every single game because Davis was so sloooooow.

[aagarcia]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Gronk will toss this guy aside like his used under wear. 

Like always the thing you will hear on games is 'Oh you can't expect a LB to stay with a TE or RB, the offense will take that mismatch every time!

Having said all of this, the guy can be a good player but he has to make a lot of big plays as in create turnovers and get sacks for me to be happy about the pick.

IGNORANT statement.  How did Pryor do covering Gronk?  We're ok with that??  Pryor is 5'11" and 207lbs while Lee is 6'1" and 232lbs.  Pryor ran a 4.58 and Lee a 4.47.  So what are you talking about??

[PepPep]

Just posted this in another thread. But worth repeating. 

Can we stop talking about D.Lee like he is 'tiny'. He's not. He's the same size as NUMEROUS productive LBs in the NFL. 

He hasn't played a single down in the NFL yet, so even though I am excited to see what he can do, I'm not going to assume he will make an immediate impact. He should, and I think he will, but its not a given. But what I DO know is that he is NOT tiny when compared to lots of great NFL linebackers- SO GET OVER IT! Just because people keep repeating it, does not make it true.

D. Lee- 6'1, 235

L'Avonte David- 6'1, 233

Danny Trevathan- 6'1, 231 

Deone Bucannon- 6'1, 211

 Kiko Alonso- 6'3, 238

Lawrence Timmons- 6,1, 234

Bobby Wagner- 6'0, 241

Brandon Marshal- 6'2, 238

Mychal Kendricks- 5'11, 239

D'Qwell Jackson- 6'0, 240

 Telvin Smith- 6'3, 218

Denzel Perryman- 5'11, 236

Eric Kendricks- 6'0, 232

Ryan Shazier- 6'1, 237

And on and on and on...

[roscoeword]

Should just make him a safety, and then we'll have a big safety instead of a small linebacker 

[aagarcia]

2 minutes ago, roscoeword said:

Should just make him a safety, and then we'll have a big safety instead of a small linebacker 

He's a moneybacker

[jamesr]

 

6 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Just posted this in another thread. But worth repeating. 

Can we stop talking about D.Lee like he is 'tiny'. He's not. He's the same size as NUMEROUS productive LBs in the NFL. 

He hasn't played a single down in the NFL yet, so even though I am excited to see what he can do, I'm not going to assume he will make an immediate impact. He should, and I think he will, but its not a given. But what I DO know is that he is NOT tiny when compared to lots of great NFL linebackers- SO GET OVER IT! Just because people keep repeating it, does not make it true.

D. Lee- 6'1, 235

L'Avonte David- 6'1, 233

Danny Trevathan- 6'1, 231 

Deone Bucannon- 6'1, 211

 Kiko Alonso- 6'3, 238

Lawrence Timmons- 6,1, 234

Bobby Wagner- 6'0, 241

Brandon Marshal- 6'2, 238

Mychal Kendricks- 5'11, 239

D'Qwell Jackson- 6'0, 240

 Telvin Smith- 6'3, 218

Denzel Perryman- 5'11, 236

Eric Kendricks- 6'0, 232

Ryan Shazier- 6'1, 237

And on and on and on...

He's also almost identical in size to the guy he replaces, Demario Davis. 

I never heard complaints about Davis being a shrimp. I did hear complaints about him being slow.

[Beerfish]

 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

In all fairness we once used a second rounder on a kicker because Brien choked in the playoffs, so if we are using high picks for situational stuffs this is a step up for us.

Covering TE's is "situational" now? 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Is it any better than the love the player that no one has seen?  The issues are as follows for me:

He is not going to cover gronk, he will get killed in that match up as do all smaller players (height and weight).  He is not going to be on the field for at least 1st down, maybe 2nd at times. Teams running a hurry up make 3rd down players even harder to get on the field.  He is not an elite pass rusher.  If you want to get a guy to cover, add a dime player.

He will only be worth more than 20 if he makes a lot of big plays, normally a 1st rounder top 20 pick is not a part time specialist.  We'll see.  I hope he makes all sorts of plays all over the field.

 

Yes.  With the love of a player youre loving his measurables, rankings, what scouts and experts have said and trust your personnel and FO people.  With the paranoid negativism you have to say you trust any of the above and that without have seen the tape, practices, media days, private workouts and interviews that hes only a 2 down back or some other perceived negative trait sight unseen.  Different.

Just as you have absolutely no clue that he cant or wont cover Gronk or anyone else.  Or know that he will get killed.  Or what down he will be on or off the field.  

He'll be worth the 20th pick when he fills the need and position they took him to fill.  Not when internet GMs like us come up with our list of requirements.  

Difference is some of us who have no clue what he will or wont become go with what others are saying and put our faith in the Macc & Co until proven otherwise.  Others immediately think the know more, hate on picks and players until proven otherwise.   Ala Pryor 

[Beerfish]

54 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Yes.  With the love of a player youre loving his measurables, rankings, what scouts and experts have said and trust your personnel and FO people.  With the paranoid negativism you have to say you trust any of the above and that without have seen the tape, practices, media days, private workouts and interviews that hes only a 2 down back or some other perceived negative trait sight unseen.  Different.

Just as you have absolutely no clue that he cant or wont cover Gronk or anyone else.  Or know that he will get killed.  Or what down he will be on or off the field.  

He'll be worth the 20th pick when he fills the need and position they took him to fill.  Not when internet GMs like us come up with our list of requirements.  

Difference is some of us who have no clue what he will or wont become go with what others are saying and put our faith in the Macc & Co until proven otherwise.  Others immediately think the know more, hate on picks and players until proven otherwise.   Ala Pryor 

No actually the people ij favor of him are just as guilty of pre judging as those against.  As for the worth, we had a lot of different needs to fill, a situational guy does not trump other needs unless he makes just a ton of huge plays.  At least he is playing like an agitator in camp so far it seems which is a good thing.

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

No actually the people ij favor of him are just as guilty of pre judging as those against.  As for the worth, we had a lot of different needs to fill, a situational guy does not trump other needs unless he makes just a ton of huge plays.  At least he is playing like an agitator in camp so far it seems which is a good thing.

Doesn't make a difference.  This wasn't a player picked who everybody hated or was deemed a reach.  It's you and others guessing that he's to small.  Why?  Because.  Not one shred of proof that he won't be able to handle his role.  I don't profess to be a college or draft guru.  So wh n I read about his speed and tenacity whatever I'm glad.  let lee prove the pundits wrong the pn I'll complain, not before hand.  

That you think other positions were more important makes no difference, doesn't change whether he can handle the position.  But that you would rather they address another position so you're on a campaign to tell us what a guy you really have no idea about can't do.  

Again going against all th reports to discredit someone we haven't seen play is different from just hating on the first two picks.  

[PepPep]

2 hours ago, jamesr said:

 

He's also almost identical in size to the guy he replaces, Demario Davis. 

I never heard complaints about Davis being a shrimp. I did hear complaints about him being slow.

So I know I'm splitting hairs here, but D.Davis wasn't slow, per say. He ran a 4.61 at the combine, which was slow for him as he was expected to run around a 4.50. But 4.61 is not bad at all for an ILB. 

The issue with Davis, and I think why he was never re-signed by the Jets, was that (despite his speed) he took poor angles and displayed poor recognition. It made him play slow. Something the Jets were hoping he would fix but never did.

Nonetheless, your point is correct, he is pretty much identical to Lee in size and size was NEVER an issue with him before the draft or after. I should also point out that Lee will probably bulk up to around 240 playing weight just through a couple of seasons of standard NFL strength and conditioning. You can tell his frame still has room to add muscle mass. Unlike, for example, a guy like Shazier (6'1, 237), who already looks like a bodybuilder.   

[jamesr]

2 minutes ago, PepPep said:

So I know I'm splitting hairs here, but D.Davis wasn't slow, per say. He ran a 4.61 at the combine, which was slow for him as he was expected to run around a 4.50. But 4.61 is not bad at all for an ILB. 

The issue with Davis, and I think why he was never re-signed by the Jets, was that (despite his speed) he took poor angles and displayed poor recognition. It made him play slow. Something the Jets were hoping he would fix but never did.

Nonetheless, your point is correct, he is pretty much identical to Lee in size and size was NEVER an issue with him before the draft or after. I should also point out that Lee will probably bulk up to around 240 playing weight just through a couple of seasons of standard NFL strength and conditioning. You can tell his frame still has room to add muscle mass. Unlike, for example, a guy like Shazier (6'1, 237), who already looks like a bodybuilder.   

That's kind of what I was meaning - slow to the ball slow, more than slow in a foot race slow. The guy who was just a step away from making a play, most of the time.

[BUM-KNEE]

7 hours ago, Big Blocker said:

I think you mean moose.  But more likely is he went for a swim in the ocean and froze to death.  Last week.

Exactly, our moose are quite frisky when provoked.

I'd just slap a deer.....

[bealeb319]

13 hours ago, Harlemnite1 said:

Got pulverized by a 5'9 running back. Shape of things to come. Wait till a pulling guard gets a full head of steam.

Instead of bashing our rookie linebacker why not instead give our 5'9 running back some praise? 

[JustInFudge]

I would pay really good money to see MaineJet aka Harlemnite (like that hillbilly has ever stepped foot in Harlem) take a hand off from Fitz and meet the Tiny Linebacker at the goalline.

Oh how fun that would be!!!!

[bealeb319]

4 hours ago, detectivekimble said:

Well, no one can cover Gronk one-on-one.  Gronk is a MISMATCH for anyone.  So not sure why you'd hold it against Lee if he can't cover Gronk one-on-one.  

I thought that Pryor actually held up pretty well against Gronk last year.

[Larz]

Lee kicked ass today

Mainejet ?  not so much