A proper rebuild is long overdue.

[Beerfish]

4 minutes ago, August said:

I get what you're saying. This is where patience comes in. Let's give some of the kids a chance to develop before casting them to the side. Also in rebuilding gm's will make mistakes so they should get time to learn from their mistakes and correct prior errors. 

I agree but you have to play the kids to judge anything about them.  The jets like the 1st year signed vets to plug holes (probably costing us 2 or 3 comp picks next year)

[BigRy56]

2 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

When was the last time the Jets properly rebuilt the team?  95, 96, 97???

this team needs to have 3 consecutive bad seasons.  Im talking 3-13 type seasons.  

Everything we do from this point forward should be for the benefit of the 2020 season.

following the Dallas model.  Stock the oline w/ young talent and then pounce on a qb early in the 2018 draft. 

The worst case scenario is going 3-13 this year and then 9-7 next year.  No more of that.  We need 3 years of bad football and high draft picks to turn this around.  Its the only way.

What if we go 3-13, draft Deshone Kizer, and he carries us to 9-7? Is that another way?

[Joe W. Namath]

53 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

What if we go 3-13, draft Deshone Kizer, and he carries us to 9-7? Is that another way?

I dont believe it is.  I think we need top picks in the draft for a few years.  Get that pass rusher we havent had in a decade.  Build the oline to protect the qb.  Get the qb some elite weapons.  

3 years of picking at the top of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd of the draft would be great for this team.

[jeremy2020]

4 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

When was the last time the Jets properly rebuilt the team?  95, 96, 97???

this team needs to have 3 consecutive bad seasons.  Im talking 3-13 type seasons.  

Everything we do from this point forward should be for the benefit of the 2020 season.

following the Dallas model.  Stock the oline w/ young talent and then pounce on a qb early in the 2018 draft. 

The worst case scenario is going 3-13 this year and then 9-7 next year.  No more of that.  We need 3 years of bad football and high draft picks to turn this around.  Its the only way.

So...3 bad seasons which would mean you're setup for 1 possible good season and then you need to pay all of your draftees from the 1st bad season *if* they turned our to be any good?

[CanadienJetsFan]

I'd be willing to go along with a rebuild for it's been a long time coming. The time has come to stop masking as a playoff type team and tank if need be. Needless to say, this " win now" strategy simply hasn't panned out. But last year's success forced the front office to stick with this game plan. I don't blame them for this choice-the Jets have no current solution for QB other than Fitz. The needed to sign Fitz again. thankfully it's only for this year. so good on Mac for not doing something as stupid as signing Fitz for 3 years as he was once  asking for.

 Now we are 1-5.For this current team to save face, they will need to go 4-0 in the next 4 games. Based on how they have been playing, that is highly unlikely. Still, this will be the rallying cry we'll be hearing over the next days. Fitz will be given the chance to be the guy to turn this season around and I think he deserves that opportunity because of last year. But, the odds are stacked against him. So, I'm not holding my breath.

by week 9 or 10, we'll probably be in  full rebuilding mode. It'll then be time to give Geno and Petty a chance to compete for the QB job.  Will any of the 2 succeed? again probably not . that leaves Hackeberg, Mac's guy. But again, Hack is only part of the equation next year. He's not even close to suiting up.

Mac should be given the chance to weed out the old wood and put together a young, faster and more dynamic team next year. Hey, he did win best new GM last year, didn't he? He deserves that chance.

That leaves Bowles and Gailey. I think Bowles's Job is still safe but I doubt Gailey's is.The offensive play calling has been hard to understand especially from a guy with so much experience under his belt. Somebody will have to take the bullet and it'll probably be Gailey.

In the end, whether or not we rebuild will fall on Woody's lap.The big question I ask is will Woody pull a Woody and fire the whole lot? This would be disastrous for it would prove once and for all just how inept the guy really as an owner. I hope that he's learned his lessons from the past and stay out of the way of the football operations once and for all. He's probably a very nice guy but he knows zero about football. Take a page out the successful franchises (like the giants and steelers) and get out of the way Woody. Patience is needed not a knee jerk purge.

My money is on him NOT firing Mac and Bowles. Why? Well, he showed some maturity when he went to Wolf/Casserty for help. He needs to believe that all the right reasons he hired these guys only 2 years ago still are present today. He just needs to trust that these guys are on the right track,vision-wise.  

Buckle up for another bumpy ride fellow Jet fans! 

 

 

[bealeb319]

I really don't think we are as far off of a rebuild as most of the forum. We have obvious needs at ol and cb we need a young rb or two but most other positions we have some half decent young prospects buried under veterans on the depth chart. I don't think all of them will be viable starters of course but once we are eliminated from they playoffs I think we need to put the kids in and evaluate what we have for next season.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

[ChuckkieB]

I'm fine with rebuilding, but the first order of business then has to be to play Petty and/or Hackenberg this year to see if our future QB is on the roster. 

[FidelioJet]

19 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

we needed mccags to draft in 2013 with all those picks.  no way he would have taken geno although we would probably be sitting here complaining about glennon.

except of a couple of late round "potential" guys - I've seen little to tell me Mac is any better than Idzik..

[Augustiniak]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

except of a couple of late round "potential" guys - I've seen little to tell me Mac is any better than Idzik..

he's better than idzik.  milliner, geno, amaro.  pryor, sheldon sucking.  just no value at the top of his drafts at this point.  williams and lee are way better than the guys idzik picked in the first round, and the jury is still out on devin smith and hack.

[peebag]

well next off season they better address the offensive line. 

[Jet Nut]

There's no such thing as a 2-3 year tear it down and rebuild plan in today's football.  

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

he's better than idzik.  milliner, geno, amaro.  pryor, sheldon sucking.  just no value at the top of his drafts at this point.  williams and lee are way better than the guys idzik picked in the first round, and the jury is still out on devin smith and hack.

Hack similar to Geno (Jury is still out on Geno)

Sheldon similar to Williams (Sheldon does NOT and has NOT sucked)

Pryor similar to Lee 

Amaro similar to Smith (the jury is still out on Amaro)

If you want to look at Mac with rose colored glasses so far - I commend it.  Wish I could...or if you want to irrationally find flaws even when they're not there with Idzik's I can understand that as well...

Mac may very well turn out to be a great drafter and the picks mentioned above may all turn our to be all-pro's...But I've seen nothing so far to make me think Mac is a much better drafter than Idzik.

Hope I turn out to be wrong.

 

[The Crusher]

19 hours ago, JiF said:

I'd literally cut every single player over the age of 30 on this team other than Mangold.  He can retire here because he deserves it. 

Teehee.  You like Mangol cause he is fat. 

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Hack similar to Geno (Jury is still out on Geno)

Sheldon similar to Williams (Sheldon does NOT and has NOT sucked)

Pryor similar to Lee 

Amaro similar to Smith (the jury is still out on Amaro)

If you want to look at Mac with rose colored glasses so far - I commend it.  Wish I could...or if you want to irrationally find flaws even when they're not there with Idzik's I can understand that as well...

Mac may very well turn out to be a great drafter and the picks mentioned above may all turn our to be all-pro's...But I've seen nothing so far to make me think Mac is a much better drafter than Idzik.

Hope I turn out to be wrong.

 

williams is better than sheldon, hands down.  and he has way more trade value b/c he didn't get into any trouble off the field.  

lee is a rookie who is already making plays no other jet can make.  his speed is elite.  pryor still takes poor angles and is part of the dumpster fire in the secondary.

amaro can't even play for the jets or titans he's that bad.  devin smith may wind up being that bad, but not yet.

you can't even compare hack to geno.  hack has elite tools and a good attitude and that alone makes him better.

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Teehee.  You like Mangol cause he is fat. 

And because the best Jets player of the last 10 years.  He deserves to play his final game here on his terms. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

36 minutes ago, JiF said:

And because the best Jets player of the last 10 years.

This is what I mean about talking about discrete moves being a waste of time. Mangold's great, but who cares? We traded a hall of fame pass rusher in his prime to draft him with two pro bowl centers already on the roster. And you guys love it. I hate this team.

[ScarletKnight89]

Man, if I was a HC or GM, I don't think I'd have the guts to try a proper rebuild with this team. With our media and fans, the guy who starts the rebuild probably won't get a chance to see it all the way thru.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

This is what I mean about talking about discrete moves being a waste of time. Mangold's great, but who cares? We traded a hall of fame pass rusher in his prime to draft him with two pro bowl centers already on the roster. And you guys love it. I hate this team.

You're taking one comment and applying it to things I never said.

I wasnt a fan of trading J.Abe.  I thought it was stupid and I wasnt a fan of drafting a C in the 1st round because it's also stupid. I cant control that stupidity andI dont hold it agains the player.  

That said, it has nothing to do with how I feel now about Mangold.  He is still playing good Football and if he wants to stay here and retire, he should and we should oblige. I'm not saying you hand him the job no matter what but I'd give him a contract to end his career here.

 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

25 minutes ago, JiF said:

You're taking one comment and applying it to things I never said.

I wasnt a fan of trading J.Abe.  I thought it was stupid and I wasnt a fan of drafting a C in the 1st round because it's also stupid. I cant control that stupidity andI dont hold it agains the player.  

That said, it has nothing to do with how I feel now about Mangold.

FEELINGS

[Beerfish]

33 minutes ago, JiF said:

You're taking one comment and applying it to things I never said.

I wasnt a fan of trading J.Abe.  I thought it was stupid and I wasnt a fan of drafting a C in the 1st round because it's also stupid. I cant control that stupidity andI dont hold it agains the player.  

That said, it has nothing to do with how I feel now about Mangold.  He is still playing good Football and if he wants to stay here and retire, he should and we should oblige. I'm not saying you hand him the job no matter what but I'd give him a contract to end his career here.

 

How do you feel about drafting a part time ilb in the 1st round?

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

How do you feel about drafting a part time ilb in the 1st round?

you mean the guy who played 50 snaps and leads the defense in tackles?

[Beerfish]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

you mean the guy who played 50 snaps and leads the defense in tackles?

leads the team in tackles 10 yards down the field, playing strictly due to injury.  Despite some of his good play he has had a net zero effect on the defense because ILB is not a premium position.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Beerfish said:

leads the team in tackles 10 yards down the field, playing strictly due to injury.  Despite some of his good play he has had a net zero effect on the defense because ILB is not a premium position.

he was getting these snaps with harris.  mauldin wasn't.  there is noone else with his speed in the front 7.  maybe if the overpaid overrated defensive line did its job lee wouldn't have to chase the rbs after they get first downs.

[JustInFudge]

46 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

FEELINGS

I have them for Mangold.  AND THEY ARE DOOMING THE JETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

39 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

How do you feel about drafting a part time ilb in the 1st round?

Dont get me started. 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

The team building philosophy of taking dlinemen and corners at the top of the draft, ignoring and failing to develop o-line talent, and trading draft picks for The last 2-3 years of a former big name wr and rb talent is just how they operate from regime to regime.

 Not to mention not being able to identify a qb. 

Until that changes, we're going to keep having the same results and poor roster construction. 

 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

The team building philosophy of taking dlinemen and corners at the top of the draft, ignoring and failing to develop o-line talent, and trading draft picks for The last 2-3 years of a former big name wr and rb talent is just how they operate from regime to regime.

 Not to mention not being able to identify a qb. 

Until that changes, we're going to keep having the same results and poor roster construction. 

 

with the right coach leonard is allpro.  and while the jury is still out with mccags, at least he's drafted 2 qbs who have the physical attributes to succeed at the position.  so many prior regimes have drafted guys with low ceilings, like chad, sanchez, geno, mcelroy, bollinger, that's just off the top of my head, i'm sure there's more.  at least this time there's a chance.  it all starts with that.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

17 hours ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

ignoring and failing to develop o-line talent

We haven't put any real resources into the offensive line since the Bush administration and we're sitting at second in the league in adjusted sack rate. It would be nice if these idiots could find some more areas of the team to ignore and fail to develop.

[The Crusher]

20 hours ago, Beerfish said:

How do you feel about drafting a part time ilb in the 1st round?

Personally I'm ok with it if he is tiny enough so I  can hold him closer. 

[maury77]

I'm actually pretty comfortable with the future of this team. This season, the organization wanted to see if they could make a playoff run while also maintaining flexibility to build for the future. Now that the season is pretty much over, we can shave almost 45 million dollars off next year's salary cap.

We can criticize Maccagnan's drafts, but remember, 2016 was his first draft with his own scouting department. In 2015, he was still using the prior regime's scouting department because there was not enough time to fire everyone and hire new scouts to review tape from the prior college football season. 

2016 looks like a very solid draft. We have 3 starters, 3 potential future starters in Hack, Burris and Peake, plus 3 nice rookie FA additions in Anderson, Marshall and Lawrence Thomas.

[jfmckenna]

Unfortunately, the tough part of the schedule is over. With the cupcakes we have coming up, we'll probably go 7-3 down the stretch.

Just enough to give the owner false hope, and secure the jobs of the coaching staff for another year.

And, with the 17th pick in the 2017 NFL Draft, the New York Jets select...

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Browns started from scratch this year (14 rookies) with a few extra draft picks next year so we will see how long it takes

 

seemed like Seattle and SF were the darling preseason teams "ready to make a move" for a couple of years before they made it to the SuperBowl, we are seeing the same thing with Raiders and Jaguars now, seems like 5 years and that is a long time in the NFL

[darook]

On October 18, 2016 at 3:01 PM, shawn306 said:

Idzik was probably in the midst of doing it in 2013. The only issue was he was absolutely clueless when it came to drafting players.

We would probably be in alot better shape had they drafted better in 2014 than they did.

 

That is the whole reason Idzik was fired and that we are still in this mess almost 3 years later. You cannot whiff on one of the deepest drafts in decades as far as skill positions and not have it come back to bite you for years to come. We had 12 picks and what, 2 are still with the team. IMO, 2014 was worse then DRob, Gholston, and taking Nugent in round 2 combined. We had a chance to quickly turnover a roster devoid of talent and "we blew it" - Robert De Niro. 

Lose, stock pile picks, hope to God either Petty or Hack turn out to at least be middle tier QB - remember a Super Bowl can be won by the likes of Flacco, and most importantly draft well. 

[BrickTamland]

18 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I'm actually pretty comfortable with the future of this team. This season, the organization wanted to see if they could make a playoff run while also maintaining flexibility to build for the future. Now that the season is pretty much over, we can shave almost 45 million dollars off next year's salary cap.

We can criticize Maccagnan's drafts, but remember, 2016 was his first draft with his own scouting department. In 2015, he was still using the prior regime's scouting department because there was not enough time to fire everyone and hire new scouts to review tape from the prior college football season. 

2016 looks like a very solid draft. We have 3 starters, 3 potential future starters in Hack, Burris and Peake, plus 3 nice rookie FA additions in Anderson, Marshall and Lawrence Thomas.

I agree for the most part. We did pick up good talent in the offseason.

and it's a great point about the money we can shave off...many underperforming vets can be released to make room for the next round of fa.

What could Sheldon fetch in a trade?

[Jetster]

I would be absolutely shocked if Sheldon Richardson isn't dangled this off season or during the 2017 draft. Bowles can't find a spot for him now? 

Best case scenario? A team with Super Bowl aspirations loses a big time Dlineman & we trade Sheldon before the trade deadline.

It doesn't matter where you pick during the draft if you have a QB. Teams like the Pats (we took Wilson, they took McCourty, we took Quinton Coples, they took Chandler Jones (who they traded for a 2nd round pick), Skins took Kirk Cousins in the 4th round in that 2012 draft, AFTER they took RGIII second overall.

It DOES NOT MATTER where you draft if you pick the wrong players. David Johnson is the 1st or 2nd best RB in the league & he was a 3rd rounder. 

So far I like what I see from Macc. He so far has taken 2 QBs with pro intangibles, good size & arm strength, and from what I've read & heard, hard working intelligent guys in Petty & Hack. Devin Smith got hurt, you can't plan for injuries & he's never played with a QB that can take advantage of the speed he brings to the field. 

I would be SHOCKED if the Jets don't draft a stud RB next year. I think part of Maccs plan was to stockpile some young WRs and bring them along which he has. Smith, Anderson, Peake, J. Marshall they've all shown flashes which is a GREAT sign going forward & working with a young strong armed QB. Enunwa from the last regime is a great Swiss Army knife role player. Guys like that are invaluable. 

So, while it seems we're years away from turning this around IF Petty or Hack turn out to be THE ONE we've been waiting for this team could grow very quickly if Macc makes the right moves in the draft & free agency. As someone else stated there is a lot of FAT to be trimmed in the salary dept. & what we're getting on our return (Not much!). Fitz, Harris, Revis, Gilchrist, Skrine, are all overpaid & we're ranked as one of the worst defenses in the league & have scored less TDs than any team in the league. Talk about no return on a 40 million dollar investment. The SEC would have to investigate based on fraud. 

First free agent they should sign? Mike Glennon. 3 young QBs. Petty, Glennon, Hack. All young, all with good size & throwing arms & in their prime age wise, all competitive. Talk about an awesome training camp competition. May the best man win. 

Second free agent if available. Donte Hightower. Now you get a LB that can blitz, has great size & speed, which allows our Tiny LB to just run around & make plays. Shore up the LB core, Hightower, Jenkins, Lee, that would help the secondary.

Force Mangold to renogoitiate his contract to retire a Jet. Cap friendly or let him go. Paying 8.6million (total cap hit in 2016), for a 33 year old center is f*cking ludicrous. Nick showed signs of slowing down in 2014! Plus, I'd rather have a young center that can pull like Mawae use to do, not just a fat guy. I've said this before, we let a center leave once in Goodwin that won a Super bowl with the Saints. The Pats have had 5 center since Nick has been here. I'm all for nostalgia but I only care about the Jets winning. Their 1-5. Nick Mangold won't be the reason the Jets progress into a winner from here on out.

Theres your start to a rebuild. The rest will in all likely hood will be a FA young Olineman. Most of the rest in the draft & UDFAs. We also don't know who might make it from the practice squad? Middleton the safety? I think Macc can pull us out going forward. Just needs to cut the dead wood in the right way & not miss badly in the draft. Not easy, but I think he's the man to do the job.

[maury77]

9 hours ago, BrickTamland said:

I agree for the most part. We did pick up good talent in the offseason.

and it's a great point about the money we can shave off...many underperforming vets can be released to make room for the next round of fa.

What could Sheldon fetch in a trade?

 

I have no idea what Sheldon could fetch, but he absolutely should be traded. He's a very good player, but we can't utilize him properly anymore because of Leo and Wilk. The day Leo was drafted, we knew that eventually one of the 3 would be traded. 

Chandler Jones fetched a second rounder and Cooper, but I don't think Sheldon is held in as high regard as Jones, who has multiple double digit sack seasons.