What should the approach be if the jets want to "suck for Sam"?

[TuscanyTile2]

Doesn't have to be Sam but whoever the next real QB of this franchise will be. Do we load up on OL to give our next QB protection?  WR to give him weapons?   A good D to not force him to do too much too soon? 

[ASH1962]

Anyone?

Bueller?

Bueller?

Bueller?

[varjet]

The Jets basically play the players they have, plus their draft picks, cut overpaid veterans but save the cap space for future years, and play the QBs they have, plus maybe Geno.

If they really want to s*** for Sam, bring back Fitz or Geno.  If the Jets spend for a Cutler, Romo, Taylor or Glennon, they will win too many games to get a top QB.

The Jets either (i) have a QB in Petty or Hack in which case they are not that bad off or (ii) do not have a QB, in which case they are a bad team by definition.

Playing the youngsters and adding someone with some experience to justify the ticket sales basically is a win/win.  Either someone shows they can play, and the Jets win a few games, or they don't, and the Jets get a Rosen or Darnold.  Signing a Glennon is completely counterproductive.

To get a real QB, you really can't win too many games.  The Jets pick 6 this year with 5 wins. 6 is too late.  The Jets do not need garbage wins that lower their draft status.  Either win the right way, or lose.

[JetFaninMI]

I don't want them to "suck for Sam". What I want them to do is draft young guys at need positions and build through the draft. Supplement that with some FA'S but don't throw money at unproven talent. Let them grow together and build something. Going with Hack or Petty all but assures a losing season no matter who they draft or sign. If Mac and Bowles think otherwise they are truly delusional. We have seen that "the quick fix" does not work. The holes on this team could not be filled this off-season no matter how much cap space they have or how many draft picks they have. This draft does have some depth at a lot of those holes on this team. This will be a long road and it will take some time but the end result will be better than anything we have seen in a long while.

[hawk]

They should build their offensive line first and foremost.  Regardless of their plan, such as a planned tank or trying to be competive.

[SAR I]

5 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Doesn't have to be Sam but whoever the next real QB of this franchise will be. Do we load up on OL to give our next QB protection?  WR to give him weapons?   A good D to not force him to do too much too soon? 

Using the Patriots as the ultimate model of what it takes to have sustained success and win Championships in the NFL, you first need a brilliant head coach and GM who can assemble a team that isn't selfish, plays hard, and isn't consumed with contract value because they want to win so badly.

Once you have that type of character and professionalism pervading the culture, you need a franchise quarterback supported by a lot of squirrelly, gutsy receivers who aren't afraid to go over the middle and take a hit and an offensive line that is just good enough to protect him most of the time.  On defense, you need just enough to get by but, again, you need guys who are tough and unselfish and play hard on every down who buy in to what their smart defensive coordinator is trying to do.

This whole idea of sucking for a franchise quarterback is great, it's what we should do if we want the next Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning, these guys come around once a decade and we're set up to finally draw the lucky straw.  But it's not the answer.  The answer starts with a brilliant head coach and GM who can assemble a team that isn't selfish, plays hard, and isn't consumed with contract value because they want to win so badly.  We don't have that.  That's the problem.

SAR I

[jetophile]

No offense to Tuscany - mostly because I love it there - but does this really warrant a separate thread?  I'm sorry, I'm just not down for my team to throw a fight. Never have been. It's not going to solve anything. The NFL is as corrupt as the 1918 World Series as it is. The only thing that would solve our QB problem and general STD/gonorrhea of a franchise is a massive Enola Gay level type carpet bombing of e-coli. 

[The Crusher]

10 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Doesn't have to be Sam but whoever the next real QB of this franchise will be. Do we load up on OL to give our next QB protection?  WR to give him weapons?   A good D to not force him to do too much too soon? 

Coach Bowles has no time to worry about getting Sam. He has his job to save. So any QB that could get him to 7-9 or 8-8 to show improvement and keep his job another year.  

[Obrien2Toon]

Build the Oline and get a good rb.

Start Petty to guarantee getting the top pick.

 

[Dcat]

11 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Coach Bowles has no time to worry about getting Sam. He has his job to save. So any QB that could get him to 7-9 or 8-8 to show improvement and keep his job another year.  

this is the curse of the Jets.  We have to suffer through what will at best be a mediocre season and at worst a terrible one with no hope of getting the unicorn just to save that idiot's job?.  Fuk Jets fans' lives.  Either tell Bowles he'll stay no matter what or order him to start Petty or Hack.  That will ensure a 2 or 3 win season or worse.

[flgreen]

Free up 50M, put 20 M in OL, and CB no older then 28. Roll 30 M over to next year.  Trade #6 for a fist full of picks in 2018 to trade up with for either Rosen of Sam D.  Start Petty, if he doesn't play well bring in Hack.

[FTL Jet Fan]

The Jets are not going to lose intentionally for a QB who may not even come out. The probability of us having the first pick and the multiple variables that come into play when it comes to Sam next year are way to risky. I don't see any team especially with a staff on the hot seat saying let's tank this season put are reputations on the line and get fired so another coach GM etc can get a first round draft pick who may or may not be there.

 

[The Crusher]

19 minutes ago, Dcat said:

this is the curse of the Jets.  We have to suffer through what will at best be a mediocre season and at worst a terrible one with no hope of getting the unicorn just to save that idiot's job?.  Fuk Jets fans' lives.  Either tell Bowles he'll stay no matter what or order him to start Petty or Hack.  That will ensure a 2 or 3 win season or worse.

Yes. Being a Jet fan is like watching the worse Groundhog Day movie ever. Since 1969!

[Ken Schroy]

10 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Free up 50M, put 20 M in OL, and CB no older then 28. Roll 30 M over to next year.  Trade #6 for a fist full of picks in 2018 to trade up with for either Rosen of Sam D.  Start Petty, if he doesn't play well bring in Hack.

Sounds simplistic, but it really is a viable plan. I think they have to tear it all down. Mac learned that signing free agents doesn't get you there. It won't even get you to the playoffs.

[Bleedin Green]

I think step one needs to be coming up with a much more clever rallying cry than "Suck for Sam", which is simply a lazy ripoff of the more cleverly phrased "Suck for Luck".  I mean sure it has some alliteration, but no rhyming or anything else!  If the Jets are going to truly be the absolute worst, they have to commit to it damn it!

[flgreen]

3 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

I think step one needs to be coming up with a much more clever rallying cry than "Suck for Sam", which is simply a lazy ripoff of the more cleverly phrased "Suck for Luck".  I mean sure it has some alliteration, but no rhyming or anything else!  If the Jets are going to truly be the absolute worst, they have to commit to it damn it!

Already said it.  "Rot for Rosen"

[Dcat]

5 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

I think step one needs to be coming up with a much more clever rallying cry than "Suck for Sam", which is simply a lazy ripoff of the more cleverly phrased "Suck for Luck".  I mean sure it has some alliteration, but no rhyming or anything else!  If the Jets are going to truly be the absolute worst, they have to commit to it damn it!

 

[Bleedin Green]

2 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Already said it.  "Rot for Rosen"

That's the spirit!

[flgreen]

11 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

I think step one needs to be coming up with a much more clever rallying cry than "Suck for Sam", which is simply a lazy ripoff of the more cleverly phrased "Suck for Luck".  I mean sure it has some alliteration, but no rhyming or anything else!  If the Jets are going to truly be the absolute worst, they have to commit to it damn it!

"Get squashed for Josh"

[flgreen]

18 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

I think step one needs to be coming up with a much more clever rallying cry than "Suck for Sam", which is simply a lazy ripoff of the more cleverly phrased "Suck for Luck".  I mean sure it has some alliteration, but no rhyming or anything else!  If the Jets are going to truly be the absolute worst, they have to commit to it damn it!

"Decompose in Rosen"

[thadude]

Tanking is the most inexact science ever.  53 players on the roster trying to maintain NFL careers and pay checks you can't simply tell them "now go play bad on purpose"

[Dcat]

1 minute ago, thadude said:

Tanking is the most inexact science ever.  53 players on the roster trying to maintain NFL careers and pay checks you can't simply tell them "now go play bad on purpose"

this is correct.  That's why you start Petty or Hack for all 16 games next season.  Or Geno if he's still around somewhere. 

[The Crusher]

2 minutes ago, thadude said:

Tanking is the most inexact science ever.  53 players on the roster trying to maintain NFL careers and pay checks you can't simply tell them "now go play bad on purpose"

Put Hack or Petty in as the QB. Don't spend on high prices FA so you can keep your job. We win no more than 1-3 games just doing that. 

[varjet]

6 hours ago, hawk said:

They should build their offensive line first and foremost.  Regardless of their plan, such as a planned tank or trying to be competive.

The Cowboys almost made it to the SB this past year.  Honestly they probably should have.   They have been building their line for the last 5+ years.   They built their line (and RB) when they picked very high (i.e. the draft after they were not very good).  Actually, they just returned to the playoffs, and they have been building through the line and a couple of great WRs for quite a while.  It is a good plan but takes patience and time. 

To do that this year, the Jets would either trade down in the 1st and/or make strategic picks in the later rounds.   

If the Jets do not trade down, this draft provides the opportunity to grab a S, CB or ILB that could anchor the defense for 5+ years.   That could be a very good opportunity.

But to pay too much for a veteran QB will only continue the path of treading water.  There are issues with intentionally stinking and throwing the season.   Maybe that is what the Browns did in 2016, but it did not necessarily look that way-they had alot of young players who played hard, and the coach showed up.  The acquired Jamie Collins-an important point if Reuben Foster is there for the Jets-the Browns in a total rebuild concluded that they needed an anchor ILB.  

If the Jets want to stink for Sam, play the QBs that they have drafted.  That will get them to the result that reflects reality.

[Lupz27]

Simple go into camp with no QB's other then Hack, and Petty (plus a camp body that has no shot at making team), start every draft pick from the first 3 rounds, draft a player at 6 like Hooker who won't help you win games year 1, but will be a stud come years 2, and 3 after getting necessary experience.

OLine, no big FA adds to the line this offseason only current guys under contract, and drafted players on roster.

Anyone talented that might make a difference in the field that is locked up long term like Mo, Leo, Lee, or someone who emerges as such this season even gets a hang nail place them on IR immediately.

Follow these steps, and 1 of 2 things happen you go 2-14 at best while a bunch of young inexperienced, and some not so talented guys play their ass off, but can't win because off the inexperience, and lack of talent like the Browns last year, OR one of Hack, and Petty emerge as a viable starter for the future, and we don't need Darnold, very unlikely lol.

[JoJoTownsell1]

They already did the most important thing to insure we finish with the worst record and that's bring bowles back. 

[kmnj]

if losing is our goal and losing big we have the right guys running our show

mac is terrible-terrible contacts for his FA pick ups+terrible drafts-only real player is LW who a five year old would have taken at the spot

bowles is as bad as they come-

we are getting rid of the only quality talent on the team-mangold and soon to be bmarsh

 

 

[nicg4360]

Everyone who is in a contract year will be playing to not suck for Sam. The coach and Mac will be doing what they can to not lose their jobs and damage career opportunities if the Jets do move on from them.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using JetNation.com mobile app

[ScarletKnight89]

If they want to suck for Sam?

Probably just name Hackenberg the starter...

[HighPitch]

Im no college guy,  but i hear this sam qb is a freshman that started 10 games. 

 

This is who ws are tanking for? 

[Skeptable]

On 3/2/2017 at 4:00 AM, SAR I said:

Using the Patriots as the ultimate model of what it takes to have sustained success and win Championships in the NFL, you first need a brilliant head coach and GM who can assemble a team that isn't selfish, plays hard, and isn't consumed with contract value because they want to win so badly.

Once you have that type of character and professionalism pervading the culture, you need a franchise quarterback supported by a lot of squirrelly, gutsy receivers who aren't afraid to go over the middle and take a hit and an offensive line that is just good enough to protect him most of the time.  On defense, you need just enough to get by but, again, you need guys who are tough and unselfish and play hard on every down who buy in to what their smart defensive coordinator is trying to do.

This whole idea of sucking for a franchise quarterback is great, it's what we should do if we want the next Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning, these guys come around once a decade and we're set up to finally draw the lucky straw.  But it's not the answer.  The answer starts with a brilliant head coach and GM who can assemble a team that isn't selfish, plays hard, and isn't consumed with contract value because they want to win so badly.  We don't have that.  That's the problem.

SAR I

But if they really do end up tanking for Darnold by cutting all veterans, signing middle of the road veterans (don't spend all the cap), to lose and use the unused cap space in future years, show a smart GM that is improving upon his mistakes and really setting out a plan for the future?

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Skeptable said:

But if they really do end up tanking for Darnold by cutting all veterans, signing middle of the road veterans (don't spend all the cap), to lose and use the unused cap space in future years, show a smart GM that is improving upon his mistakes and really setting out a plan for the future?

Can you show me an example of a team that hit these two magical moving targets at the same time?

1.  Rebuilt core of team.

2.  Found franchise QB.

I have seen a lot of teams waste time rebuilding without a franchise quarterback who go absolutely nowhere, and then I've seen lousy teams hit a franchise quarterback and in under 2 years are suddenly winning and among the league elite.

What the Jets did that was unique was try to use free agency to create an immediately competitive team and find the best available quarterback to make a run instead of waiting for the next Peyton Manning to fall from heaven.  Parcells did this in '98, Tannenbaum did this in '09, it nearly worked.  And it was a hell of a lot more fun than sitting around like the Bills, Browns, or Raiders just sucking.

SAR I

[UntouchableCrew]

Draft for offense so that when he steps in there are young players around him who are actually good. Get him some protection up front and some weapons.

[Skeptable]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Can you show me an example of a team that hit these two magical moving targets at the same time?

1.  Rebuilt core of team.

2.  Found franchise QB.

I have seen a lot of teams waste time rebuilding without a franchise quarterback who go absolutely nowhere, and then I've seen lousy teams hit a franchise quarterback and in under 2 years are suddenly winning and among the league elite.

What the Jets did that was unique was try to use free agency to create an immediately competitive team and find the best available quarterback to make a run instead of waiting for the next Peyton Manning to fall from heaven.  Parcells did this in '98, Tannenbaum did this in '09, it nearly worked.  And it was a hell of a lot more fun than sitting around like the Bills, Browns, or Raiders just sucking.

SAR I

Sure I can:

1997 Colts

1994 Oilers

1994 Panthers

1991 Bengles

1978 Giants

1970 Saints

1970 Patriots

1969 Steelers

Most of them were in full rebuild mode, before drafting their franchise qb. 

[Skeptable]

Just now, Skeptable said:

Sure I can:

1997 Colts

1994 Oilers

1994 Panthers

1991 Bengles

1978 Giants

1970 Saints

1970 Patriots

1969 Steelers

Most of them were in full rebuild mode, before drafting their franchise qb. 

This doesn't include the recent teams like:

2012 Colts

2014 Titans

2014 Buccs

2010 Panthers

as these teams have not proven anything but I would rather switch out any of these teams for the Jets right now. Sure its not a guarantee that it will work... But it has worked in the past and if at the very least they get a QB to build around, where is the harm. I say if the GM is smart, cut all veterans that you can, put out a team with heart and that wants to play, start a culture to buy into, and the healing will start. Then you can draft a Darnold and be successful in a couple years.  Right now, this roster is sick, and it needs to be fixed. The culture of the locker-room has to get the greedy veterans out and young hungry in.