Grade the Pick: LSU Safety Jamal Adams

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

1.)Uhm..because we fired 2 safeties last year..not one. Therefore we had to grab two safeties..not one.

We didn't need to take them in the 1st and 2nd round.  Plenty of good safeties get taken late in drafts.  Some even come from the UDFA pile. 

It's not an important enough position to invest that kind of draft capital, and drafting for need is always a terrible strategy. 

[Jetsfan80]

I don't mind Jamal Adams the player too much.  He's probably a B or B+ player in the long run. 

Jamal Adams the pick, where he was taken, for this team, was an F-.  And that would have been the case even if we took a safety who had a dynamite rookie season.

Just to make that clear since far too many simpletons can't understand the distinction around here. 

[K_O_Brien]

B+

Adams is my favourite current Jet. I expect him to have an above average career as a New York Jet.

Why not an A+ then? Positional value. If we didn't like a QB, take a corner like Lattimore who could have been more of an impact player. I accept Jamal has lined up in other positions, but his best role is that of a strong safety. Long-term, Malik Hooker might have been a better pick?

[JoJoTownsell1]

Adams will be the centerpiece of the Jets defense for a long time. He is a very good player already and likely going to get better the next few years. While Deshaun Watson was amazing, he couldn't survive a quarter of the season before getting hurt. Part of being a great player is being available 16 games a year. In 2014,  he broke his clavical early in the spring and that hurt his chances of starting the season, then after getting the starting job he missed the teams bowl game due to the ACL tear and now in 2017, he cost his team a playoff berth due to an injury. 
If Macc had drafted Watson the same clowns bashing Adams would be bashing Macc for taking an injury prone QB. It's SOJF Land where whining is a badge of honor. 

 

[SenorGato]

I actually had no idea Watson tore his ACL in 2014. Any injury that requires surgery and significant rehab before getting back on a field where a bunch of giant monsters are trying to kill you is kind of a flag for me. I’m big against high cost pitchers in baseball with a major arm surgery under their belt, same thing here in a far more brutal sport. 

Hm, with that info I’ve begun to make peace with passing on Watson for Adams. In that case this is a solid B for me. Adams is a high quality DB, those are a thing these days. Mahomes might be good but he sat the whole year, no reason to miss him even if I wanted to. Everyone else either falls short of Adams’ track record of performance, durability, or both. 

[Jack Straw]

On 4/27/2017 at 9:21 PM, Matt39 said:

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/jamal-adams

combine dont lie homie

Maccagnan knew Jamal Adams was the pick based on his elite arm length.

[Patriot Killa]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

We didn't need to take them in the 1st and 2nd round.  Plenty of good safeties get taken late in drafts.  Some even come from the UDFA pile. 

It's not an important enough position to invest that kind of draft capital, and drafting for need is always a terrible strategy. 

Point is we needed one and if you really like one compared to the others..you take one. I’d say it worked out pretty well.

[detectivekimble]

6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

We didn't need to take them in the 1st and 2nd round.  Plenty of good safeties get taken late in drafts.  Some even come from the UDFA pile. 

It's not an important enough position to invest that kind of draft capital, and drafting for need is always a terrible strategy. 

The Jets should know this better than anyone.  Rontez Miles is a better player than Calvin Pryor.  

[Jetsfan80]

47 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Point is we needed one and if you really like one compared to the others..you take one. I’d say it worked out pretty well.

lol.  Not in the 1st or 2nd.  It's a non-premium position.  And no, it didn't work out "pretty well".  We won 5 games in 2016.  We won the same number in 2017.  And we have innumerable holes to fill.  It didn't work out well at all. 

[UnitedWhofans]

31 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lol.  Not in the 1st or 2nd.  It's a non-premium position.  And no, it didn't work out "pretty well".  We won 5 games in 2016.  We won the same number in 2017.  And we have innumerable holes to fill.  It didn't work out well at all. 

What were the expectations?

[Patriot Killa]

54 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lol.  Not in the 1st or 2nd.  It's a non-premium position.  And no, it didn't work out "pretty well".  We won 5 games in 2016.  We won the same number in 2017.  And we have innumerable holes to fill.  It didn't work out well at all. 

We have two positions locked down in a pass heavy league. It DID work out. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

We have two positions locked down in a pass heavy league. It DID work out. 

Last season, we were # 21 in the league in pass defense by yardage, # 22 in pass defense by DVOA, and allowed 30 pass TD's, with only the Giants (32) allowing more. 

Oh, and we also allowed the t-4th most TD's to Tight Ends (9), which is what safeties are supposed to help stop. 

What are you talking about?

[Patriot Killa]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Last season, we were # 21 in the league in pass defense by yardage, # 22 in pass defense by DVOA, and allowed 30 pass TD's, with only the Giants (32) allowing more. 

Oh, and we also allowed the t-4th most TD's to Tight Ends (9), which is what safeties are supposed to help stop. 

What are you talking about?

They both had solid seasons. You know there is a thing called Cornerback too? Oh bet you didn’t know that one. They prevented a lot of big plays and didn’t lapse in coverage as much as you are claiming. Linebackers also “help stop TE’s” why aren’t you putting this on Darron Lee and Demario Davis KNOWN inability to play coverage. You are cherry picking and pinning fault on the wrong players.

 

You aren’t very good at this debate thing are you?

[varjet]

From a fan perspective, what we know about draft picks is mostly driven by what we see in college football, what the various talking heads say and what the various interested parties are able to disseminate via PR.

So, I was an A or A+ vote for Jamal Adams.  Watson seems too frail, his arm was too weak, and he did not play in a pro system.  Mahomes was another run and gun QB who has never been successful in the NFL.  Lattimore had injury issues and another Dee Milliner was feared.  Adams had great press, was thought to be a top 3 pick, and his Brett Kollman video was amazing.

Fast forward to the 2017 season, and O'Brien figured out how to use Watson, Mahomes looked better in pre-season and limited play than Petty and Hack ever did and will, Lattimore is the likely DROY and Adams looked a tad slow and did not seem to have top 6 cover skills (at least in year 1).  Goff and Mariota achieved success in the NFL, despite their college systems.

To me there are at least 2 lessons from this.

• In the end the good GMs are the ones who are smarter than Kiper and McShay and who can really scout.  To what extent was college player brought up and down by his team?  I just get the sense, which may be wrong, that Mac does not do a better job than Kiper, and in fact, if he drafted Kiper's best available rather than his own pick, he would have drafted better.
• The coaching and support a draftee gets, and how they are fit into the system, is perhaps as important as the selection itself.  I don't see the Jets working wonders in this regard either. 

I look forward to a better 2018.

 

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

They both had solid seasons.

Adams had an 81.2 per PFF (above average).  Marcus Maye had a 48.9 (poor).  So that's incorrect.

And even if they're wrong and you have proof that they both had solid seasons....so what?  It didn't do anything to move the needle.  We burned 1st & 2nd round picks on safety to go from 5 wins to.....5 wins.  And still have sh*tty pass defense to boot. 

If you use 1st & 2nds on safeties, they'd better be impact players.  As in, immediately impact the defense in a positive way.  They didn't.  They're nice players.  Nothing more. 

 

7 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

You know there is a thing called Cornerback too? Oh bet you didn’t know that one.

Then use higher picks on corners, not safeties.  Corners have a lot more value and are harder to find.  Safeties can be found in the later rounds.  

 

7 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Linebackers also “help stop TE’s” why aren’t you putting this on Darron Lee and Demario Davis KNOWN inability to play coverage.

 

 

Oh, you mean the same Darron Lee that Macc also used a 1st round pick on in order to stop TE's? 

Sure, that helps your argument that Macc is actually good.  Helps it a lot. 

Just how many early picks do we need to use on defensive players before our defense actually does well against opposing pass defenses?

Mind you, our HC was a former DB coach.  We shouldn't be having these problems every year.  But yet here we are....

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Adams had an 81.2 per PFF (above average).  Marcus Maye had a 48.9 (poor).  So that's incorrect.

And even if they're wrong and you have proof that they both had solid seasons....so what?  It didn't do anything to move the needle.  We burned 1st & 2nd round picks on safety to go from 5 wins to.....5 wins. 

 

Then use higher picks on corners, not safeties.  Corners have a lot more value and are harder to find.  Safeties can be found in the later rounds.  

 

 

 

Oh, you mean the same Darron Lee that Macc also used a 1st round pick on in order to stop TE's? 

Sure, that helps your argument that Macc is actually good.  Helps it a lot. 

Maye’s Individual stats were straight though. PFF is cool and it is pretty accurate but putting all your stock in it is very foolish. And we would of had less wins had it NOT been for Maye/Adams. Their play kept us in a lot of games...so your point is moot as hell. And yep, that’s the Darron Lee. He wasn’t a good pick. He hasn’t been absolutely atrocious but it wasn’t a good pick. But that doesn’t mean I’m sitting here demonizing Macc for that one selection when the truth is plenty of other good things he has done DOES help my argument that Maccagnan is good. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

But that doesn’t mean I’m sitting here demonizing Macc for that one selection when the truth is plenty of other good things he has done DOES help my argument that Maccagnan is good. 

 

What has he done well?  Name them please. 

And keep in mind the following:  We're 20-28 in his tenure, with 0 playoff appearances.  The only QB under contract in 2019 is Christian Hackenberg.  And we have 0 players at premium positions that other teams would give us a 1st round pick for. 

[Saul Goodman]

We saw Adams floor this year - above average is a fair description. But his career just got started, he has a chance to get much, much better.

At least the desire and motivation is there. We’ve had many players the past few years who just didn’t care. 

I didn’t like the pick, love the player. Really enjoyed watching him this year. 

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

What has he done well?  Name them please. 

And keep in mind the following:  We're 20-28 in his tenure, with 0 playoff appearances.  The only QB under contract in 2019 is Christian Hackenberg.  And we have 0 players at premium positions that other teams would give us a 1st round pick for. 

I’ve named and named and named over and over again for you haters. But fine, I suppose I can run this by you people again.

Robby Anderson - UDFA steal

Kearse and a 2nd rounder

Jordan Jenkins has been a set the edge anchor on the right side and should continue to progress and be a viable starter for years.

Leo Williams fell in his lap but taking BPA did well as Richardson would get into trouble the very next year and Wilkerson would fall off the earth.

Jamal Adams is an above average starter as a rookie.

Marcus Maye is a solid starter in his rookie season.

Ryan Fitzpatrick for a 6tg in exchange for a 31 TD season was nice (shouldn't have resigned him tho)

Brandon Marshall for a 5th in exchange for the best production a WR has ever had here was nice.

Kony Ealy was a good pick up but needs to show consistency. Very young though.

Xavier flashed in his few games and looks to be another good wavier wire pick up.

David Bass arguably was our best pass rusher and he was a wavier wire pick up.

McGuire looks to be a 6th round steal if he keeps up his exciting play and progress.

Morris Claiborne was a good one year signing as he was solid until the last few games he got injured in.

Has he been perfect? Hell no. In hindsight there are things that shouldn’t have been done..but that tends to happen when you are looking from hindsight. 

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I’ve named and named and named over and over again for you haters. But fine, I suppose I can run this by you people again.

Robby Anderson - UDFA steal

Kearse and a 2nd rounder

Jordan Jenkins has been a set the edge anchor on the right side and should continue to progress and be a viable starter for years.

Leo Williams fell in his lap but taking BPA did well as Richardson would get into trouble the very next year and Wilkerson would fall off the earth.

Jamal Adams is an above average starter as a rookie.

Marcus Maye is a solid starter in his rookie season.

Ryan Fitzpatrick for a 6tg in exchange for a 31 TD season was nice (shouldn't have resigned him tho)

Brandon Marshall for a 5th in exchange for the best production a WR has ever had here was nice.

Kony Ealy was a good pick up but needs to show consistency. Very young though.

Xavier flashed in his few games and looks to be another good wavier wire pick up.

David Bass arguably was our best pass rusher and he was a wavier wire pick up.

McGuire looks to be a 6th round steal if he keeps up his exciting play and progress.

Morris Claiborne was a good one year signing as he was solid until the last few games he got injured in.

Has he been perfect? Hell no. In hindsight there are things that shouldn’t have been done..but that tends to happen when you are looking from hindsight. 

 

 

 

Most of these are things any run of the mill GM does every once in a while.  Uncovering a few UDFA gems by accident is not the mark of a great GM.  Particularly since you have to split credit for those types with the coaches who develop said players.  Rattling off a list like this doesn't impress anybody. 

Nailing your draft picks at a high rate and getting premium talent on your roster is what separates great GM's from good, good from average, and average from sh*tty.  Macc is in the latter camp, and the proof is in the results. 

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Most of these are things any run of the mill GM does every once in a while.  Uncovering a few gems by accident is not the mark of a great GM. 

Nailing your draft picks at a high rate and getting premium talent on your roster is what separates great GM's from good, good from average, and average from sh*tty.  Macc is in the latter camp, and the proof is in the results. 

Saying “by accident” doesn’t resonate with me as anything else but you downplaying his eye for talent to suit your argument. Is it really by accident when you get 5 to 6 good players with potential off the wavier wire or is that just what you want it to be. 

Macc’s faults are his faults

Macc’s good moves are his luck.

okay, gotcha.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Patriot Killa said:

 Is it really by accident when you get 5 to 6 good players with potential off the wavier wire

Mostly, yes.  And if that's the best thing you can say about a GM, the GM sucks. 

Get at least one of the following:  Legit QB/edge rusher/# 1 corner/elite O-lineman thru the draft and then we'll talk.  He has yet to do that. 

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Mostly, yes.  And if that's the best thing you can say about a GM, the GM sucks. 

Get at least one of the following:  Legit QB/edge rusher/# 1 corner/elite O-lineman thru the draft and then we'll talk.  He has yet to do that. 

But god forbid he selects a corner/olineman earlier than expected, he’ll get sh*t on for that too,right?

Jet fans are funny people.

[UnitedWhofans]

I gave him a B+. 

[#27TheDominator]

17 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

 

17 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

McGuire looks to be a 6th round steal if he keeps up his exciting play and progress.

There he is.  My candidate for most overrated Jet of 2018.  The kid had a few nice runs, but he averaged 3.6 ypc.  That is worse than Powell and Forte, who everyone wants to put out to pasture.  As for his continuing to progress, he did not have more than 30 yards rushing in a game after October 1st. 

When you said Xavier, my initial thought was Coleman who played about 5 snaps on D, but I realize now you meant Cooper who played a bunch down the stretch. 

These waiver wire pickups are nice, but they are steals for waiver wire pickups.  They would not be getting as much run if we had actual players on roster.  If we had any decent EDGE players Bass and Ealy probably wouldn't see the light of day.  I like Anderson, but the failures of Smith, Steward and Hansen eased his path. 

[Patriot Killa]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

There he is.  My candidate for most overrated Jet of 2018.  The kid had a few nice runs, but he averaged 3.6 ypc.  That is worse than Powell and Forte, who everyone wants to put out to pasture.  As for his continuing to progress, he have more than 30 yards rushing in a game after October 1st. 

When you said Xavier, my initial thought was Coleman who played about 5 snaps on D, but I realize now you meant Cooper who played a bunch down the stretch. 

These waiver wire pickups are nice, but they are steals for waiver wire pickups.  They would not be getting as much run if we had actual players on roster.  If we had any decent EDGE players Bass and Ealy probably wouldn't see the light of day.  I like Anderson, but the failures of Smith, Steward and Hansen eased his path. 

Yes! Cooper..I forgot his last name so I just stuck to his first name. He played with a lot of energy down the stretch. Smith is indeed a failure. I wouldn’t write off Hansen or Stewart just yet...they didn’t get much time but Hansen flashed mad Stewertvprovably would of showed more of he wasn’t played a gadget player/ or even played much at al.

[Bugg]

On 4/28/2017 at 6:57 AM, sourceworx said:

Mike Williams

Deshaun Watson

You know....guys that produce points.  

OUCH. But very true.

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

But god forbid he selects a corner/olineman earlier than expected, he’ll get sh*t on for that too,right?

Jet fans are funny people.

Not if that player ends up elite.  Those are premium positions, unlike safety.  

[Patriot Killa]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not if that player ends up elite.  Those are premium positions, unlike safety.  

And then when it takes more than 3 training camps sessions to shine, he’ll be sh*tted on then, too. I’m not wrong. You know that much to be true.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Patriot Killa said:

And then when it takes more than 3 training camps sessions to shine, he’ll be sh*tted on them, too. I’m not wrong. You know that much to be true.

 

Ah that's right.  The old "You can't judge a draft class for 3 years" tripe.  

[bla bla bla]

I liked the pick, still like the pick. Didn't think QB was a wise move last draft unless they knew what they had in Hack. I am excited to see this 2018 team.

[Beerfish]

My comments from this thread have not changed.

Bills have what looks like a #1 CB in TreDavious White, an extra 1st rounder this year a 3rd they used to trade up last year to get a WR.

We got a in the box SS, one year after drafting a small fast LB to do the same thing.

Hey Adams will be a player for a number of years and has some good attrubutes but unless he starts creating a lot of turnovers taking a box SS at 6 is still stupid.

[Philc1]

12 hours ago, Beerfish said:

My comments from this thread have not changed.

Bills have what looks like a #1 CB in TreDavious White, an extra 1st rounder this year a 3rd they used to trade up last year to get a WR.

We got a in the box SS, one year after drafting a small fast LB to do the same thing.

Hey Adams will be a player for a number of years and has some good attrubutes but unless he starts creating a lot of turnovers taking a box SS at 6 is still stupid.

I don’t know who tight ends love facing more in man coverage Lee or Adams

[Sperm Edwards]

On 1/10/2018 at 7:51 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Ah that's right.  The old "You can't judge a draft class for 3 years" tripe.  

A * attached to that theory is that if a player gets out to a decent start then you can judge him.

You can judge someone who starts out good as good, but can't judge someone who starts out bad as bad.

What a convenient set of ground rules to thwart out and dismiss any disagreement or dissent.  I'm going to try that out in my next debate or disagreement. Anything I say that initially looks very wrong? You can't use that; my statements can't be refuted until 3 full years have gone by, at which time this discussion will have been long forgotten, never to be revisited. So I get to stand on and count any of my wins, while my opponent isn't permitted to count any of my losses.

rofl

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

I don’t know who tight ends love facing more in man coverage Lee or Adams

Over the last 2 years, these are the teams that have allowed the most TD's to TE's:

1) Browns:  23

2) Dolphins 20

3) Jets:  19

Panthers:  19

5) Lions:  17

6) Giants:  16

 

Back to back 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder spent to stop TE's, and we still can't do it. 

#JetUp