I just want to ask a question, not being a wise guy, but

[ASH1962]

Houston traded up to #13 and gave up this years 1, next years 1, a 2 and a 3 I think (or whatever the actual trade was, I do not remember but you get the point).

Would we not have been ecstatic to get this for the #6 pick? Are we to believe Hou would not have given up this lot for the #6, but gave it up for #13? I love the Adams pick, hope he will be a great player, but we listened to all of the BS about trading down, all of the nonsense about the phones ringing off of the wall, and yet again, picked a defensive player while we have zero offense and zero speed on offense and ST's. Not sure if Adams can return punts or kicks.

It struck me as really strange last night that Houston gave up so much for #13 but we could not get that same lot for #6.

Am I crazy?

 

 

 

 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, ASH1962 said:

Houston traded up to #13 and gave up this years 1, next years 1, a 2 and a 3 I think (or whatever the actual trade was, I do not remember but you get the point).

Would we not have been ecstatic to get this for the #6 pick? Are we to believe Hou would not have given up this lot for the #6, but gave it up for #13? I love the Adams pick, hope he will be a great player, but we listened to all of the BS about trading down, all of the nonsense about the phones ringing off of the wall, and yet again, picked a defensive player while we have zero offense and zero speed on offense and ST's. Not sure if Adams can return punts or kicks.

It struck me as really strange last night that Houston gave up so much for #13 but we could not get that same lot for #6.

Am I crazy?

 

 

 

 

probably didn't call the jets, thinking the price would be way worse.

[BigRy56]

2 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

Houston traded up to #13 and gave up this years 1, next years 1, a 2 and a 3 I think (or whatever the actual trade was, I do not remember but you get the point).

Would we not have been ecstatic to get this for the #6 pick? Are we to believe Hou would not have given up this lot for the #6, but gave it up for #13? I love the Adams pick, hope he will be a great player, but we listened to all of the BS about trading down, all of the nonsense about the phones ringing off of the wall, and yet again, picked a defensive player while we have zero offense and zero speed on offense and ST's. Not sure if Adams can return punts or kicks.

It struck me as really strange last night that Houston gave up so much for #13 but we could not get that same lot for #6.

Am I crazy?

 

 

 

 

 

They would've had to give up another 2 along with all of that to move up to #6

[Vader]

You don't try to trade up as high as possible. You try to trade up just high enough to get what u want without overpaying...

 

[munchmemory]

Creative/imaginative GM vs our guy.   I always read posts from folks saying stuff like "Well, who would you have taken?"  It's not up to us.  We don't get paid millions of dollars to make these decisions/evaluations.  See, a great GM is working constantly behind the scenes to create scenarios like the one you mentioned above.  Over the last three years, Mcc has shown that this level of creativity eludes him.  

[Matt39]

If the Jets internally decided they didnt want Watson or Mahomes I'm fine with that. If that's the case you have to try and trade down at all costs with the current state of the roster, imo. Sitting there and taking a SS is what I dont get. Adams could have potentially been there in the early teens. This kid basically has to be a combo of Ed Reed/Ronnie Lott for it to make sense. The Jets seem to continually miss on high picks at non premium positions and do it all again every 3-4 years. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

12 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

 

12 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

Houston traded up to #13 and gave up this years 1, next years 1, a 2 and a 3 I think (or whatever the actual trade was, I do not remember but you get the point).

Would we not have been ecstatic to get this for the #6 pick? Are we to believe Hou would not have given up this lot for the #6, but gave it up for #13? I love the Adams pick, hope he will be a great player, but we listened to all of the BS about trading down, all of the nonsense about the phones ringing off of the wall, and yet again, picked a defensive player while we have zero offense and zero speed on offense and ST's. Not sure if Adams can return punts or kicks.

It struck me as really strange last night that Houston gave up so much for #13 but we could not get that same lot for #6.

Am I crazy?

 

 

 

 

 

 

If all those picks were to hit, of course it would be an excellent trade opportunity that we missed out on.  But that's not the NFL draft.  The argument to trade down because we're a bad team that needs as much help as we can get is less compelling to me than the argument for taking a surefire blue chip player to add to our talent devoid roster.  If Adams and Fournette were both gone, I'd have made that trade and been happy

[JoJoTownsell1]

I wanted to trade down to 12. Not sure the Jets wanted to trade down to 25 when they had a guy like Adams available. The guys available at 25 were pretty good, but with a lot more question marks.

Look at the 2014 draft.Picks between 6 and 17 you have 9 pro bowlers. 

Picks between 22 and 31- You have  1 pro bowler. 

Personally, I'd prefer one Leonard Williams or Adams over two Calvin Pryors or Darron Lee's. 

 

[dcJet]

I don't like that trade.   These are late picks so it's like two second rounders, a third and a 4th.  More than half the guys in the bottom of the first round and after bust. 

I'll take the sure thing -- a possible great player with Adams, instead of maybe 2 jag starters and 2 busts.

[dcJet]

To parapharase another poster.  We didnt put up with all that sucking for 6 months to just get 2 Jags and 2 busts.

[Integrity28]

You guys act as if all trade offers are run past all GMs at all times. You can only negotiate and/or react to the offers you know about. Maybe Houston didn't call us, because they knew Watson wasn't an option for us, and SD, CAR, PHI all picked after us. 

Maybe Houston didn't decide they wanted to do something at all until well after the Jets picked.

If you want to complain, just complain, but stop rationalizing the complaints with naive and/or illogical musings.

[phill1c]

12 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

you have to try and trade down at all costs

Hmm, so, because you have a bad roster, you should make trades that end up costing draft capital instead of using the existing draft capital to its most productive degree?

It sounds like you're advocating trading down even if you don't receive the equivalent value, which, of course, is absurd.

Can you better explain what you mean?

[phill1c]

And, of course, my take is that we could have drafted Troy Palumalo and guys would be crying because we didn't end up selecting Mike Glennon or trading down for Dorian Boose and Anthony Becht.

[Jetster]

1 minute ago, ASH1962 said:

Houston traded up to #13 and gave up this years 1, next years 1, a 2 and a 3 I think (or whatever the actual trade was, I do not remember but you get the point).

Would we not have been ecstatic to get this for the #6 pick? Are we to believe Hou would not have given up this lot for the #6, but gave it up for #13? I love the Adams pick, hope he will be a great player, but we listened to all of the BS about trading down, all of the nonsense about the phones ringing off of the wall, and yet again, picked a defensive player while we have zero offense and zero speed on offense and ST's. Not sure if Adams can return punts or kicks.

It struck me as really strange last night that Houston gave up so much for #13 but we could not get that same lot for #6.

Am I crazy?

 

 

 

 

Just because you trade for a sh*t load of picks doesn't mean you'll be successful. BB had the luxury of having Tom Brady, but go back & look at some of the past Patriots drafts, they weren't that great. His best draft was getting Gronk & Hernandez. 

He converted McCourty to safety because he decided he was to important to lose! Paid him too. And here we have fans telling us that safety is not an important position, lol. Pull up the posts from last year where each & every week, fans were lambasting Pryor & Gilchrist for SUCKING AZZ. Bowles tried everything at safety, Miles, bringing up Middleton. 

If the position is so irrelevant than why did KC just give Berry 70 million f*cking dollars. Why did Seattles defense not look nearly as strong when Earl Thomas got hurt? Look what Landin Collins did for the Giants defense last year, he energized the entire secondary. Macc had ZERO to do with drafting Calvin Pryor. In his 3rd draft, call it luck or whatever, he took the BPA in the 1st round, 2 studs, Williams & Adams (FOOTBALL PLAYERS) that will lead our defense going forward. 

There's a sh*tload of very good players still left in this draft. The 1st round is not the end all & never has been, the same lame teams keep picking there year after year. In the past a guy like Adams would drop & Jet fans would be screaming for him like Sapp & the idiots running this team would get cute & pick Kyle f*cking Brady. 

Pan the Lee pick all you want but drafting Adams just gave Lee a license to do a lot more than he was able to last year covering for the lame azzes missing tackles all over the place last year. 

These next 3 picks (hopefully 4 if we can unload Richardson) will be where the rubber hits the road going forward. Plus the huge amount of free agent money next year (Decker, Harris, Pryor, Gilchrist) probably all gone, some maybe after this draft & his 4th draft coming up in 2018. F*ck people, everyone screams REBUILD THE RIGHT WAY, but it's painful & takes time & patience. 

This team was devoid of talent through horrific drafting before Macc got here. Why take WR when next year they'll be PLENTY of guys looking for a new team. Let's hope Tannenbaum keeps overspending & we steal Jarvis Landry from them. They'll be plenty of good RBs in the 3rd round tonight. Rebuilds are like blocks, you gotta stack him, at least now we might have a couple of team leaders in Williams & Adams. If Mo has a rebirth & Lee, Jenkins and Burris progress, Claiborne stays healthy, they could be fun to watch. Can't wait for tonight.

[MTJ06]

43 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

Houston traded up to #13 and gave up this years 1, next years 1, a 2 and a 3 I think (or whatever the actual trade was, I do not remember but you get the point).

Would we not have been ecstatic to get this for the #6 pick? Are we to believe Hou would not have given up this lot for the #6, but gave it up for #13? I love the Adams pick, hope he will be a great player, but we listened to all of the BS about trading down, all of the nonsense about the phones ringing off of the wall, and yet again, picked a defensive player while we have zero offense and zero speed on offense and ST's. Not sure if Adams can return punts or kicks.

It struck me as really strange last night that Houston gave up so much for #13 but we could not get that same lot for #6.

Am I crazy?

 

 

 

 

If you can get the player you want at 12 why would you move up to 6 and pay more $$$ even if they picks traded were the same?

Pick	Team	Contract Value	Signing Bonus	2017 Cap
1	CLE	$30,275,992	$20,158,903	$5,504,726
2	SF	$28,902,911	$19,160,299	$5,255,075
3	CHI	$28,029,149	$18,524,835	$5,096,209
4	JAC	$27,030,534	$17,798,570	$4,914,643
5	TEN (FROM LAR)	$25,282,971	$16,527,615	$4,596,904
6	NYJ	$22,162,335	$14,258,062	$4,029,515
7	LAC	$19,665,824	$12,442,418	$3,575,604
8	CAR	$17,169,314	$10,626,774	$3,121,693
9	CIN	$17,044,347	$10,535,888	$3,098,972
10	BUF	$16,357,943	$10,036,686	$2,974,172
11	NO	$15,296,937	$9,265,045	$2,781,261
12	CLE (FROM PHI)	$13,799,018	$8,175,649	$2,508,912
13	ARI	$13,424,544	$7,903,305	$2,440,826

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexkay/2017/04/27/2017-nfl-draft-rookie-salary-projections-for-first-round-picks/#41b22021534c

 

 

 

[Matt39]

10 minutes ago, phill1c said:

Hmm, so, because you have a bad roster, you should make trades that end up costing draft capital instead of using the existing draft capital to its most productive degree?

It sounds like you're advocating trading down even if you don't receive the equivalent value, which, of course, is absurd.

Can you better explain what you mean?

I'm saying if KC/HOU proposed to us what they did with Buffalo/CLE you take it since we weren't drafting a QB anyways.The Jets are going to suck next year so they're going to have to take a QB in round 1 sooner rather than later. Give yourself another pick to do so.

[legler82]

34 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

Houston traded up to #13 and gave up this years 1, next years 1, a 2 and a 3 I think (or whatever the actual trade was, I do not remember but you get the point).

Would we not have been ecstatic to get this for the #6 pick? Are we to believe Hou would not have given up this lot for the #6, but gave it up for #13? I love the Adams pick, hope he will be a great player, but we listened to all of the BS about trading down, all of the nonsense about the phones ringing off of the wall, and yet again, picked a defensive player while we have zero offense and zero speed on offense and ST's. Not sure if Adams can return punts or kicks.

It struck me as really strange last night that Houston gave up so much for #13 but we could not get that same lot for #6.

Am I crazy?

 

 

 

 

Once Mahomes was off the board Cleveland was able to take advantage of a panicked Texans FO and raise the price.  

[JETSfaninNE]

27 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Creative/imaginative GM vs our guy.   I always read posts from folks saying stuff like "Well, who would you have taken?"  It's not up to us.  We don't get paid millions of dollars to make these decisions/evaluations.  See, a great GM is working constantly behind the scenes to create scenarios like the one you mentioned above.  Over the last three years, Mcc has shown that this level of creativity eludes him.  

Yup exactly.  Pretty obvious Macc has no creativity or idea what he is doing, trading a future 4th rd pick for a 5th rd pick and being able to grab a starting T a year ahead of schedule and then knowingly get at least a 4th or even better a 3rd back in compensatory pick the following year.  I think you got it right when you stated you don't get paid millions of dollars to make these decisions, since you can't even give our own guy credit when he makes one.  If you don't like the position that was taken fine, gripe about it.  But its  obvious we have many positions of need and the backend of the secondary was just as high as any need on offense.  We just locked up a 10 yr starter and we still have 3 more picks in the top 3 rounds.  Lets see if Macc can still get creative.

[phill1c]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

I'm saying if KC proposed to us what they did with Buffalo you take it since we weren't drafting a QB anyways.The Jets are going to suck next year so they're going to have to take a QB in round 1 sooner rather than later. Give yourself another pick to do so.

You may have been thinking that, but you said "at all costs" so that's not what you communicated. And now you're mentioning a hypothetical scenario, which cannot be proved or disproved. In the end, I think if it made sense to trade the pick, it would have been traded. I choose to believe that Mac has done this enough to recognize a good deal from a bad one. But, I admit, I would like to see some positive evidence very soon.

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, phill1c said:

You may have been thinking that, but you said "at all costs" so that's not what you communicated. And now you're mentioning a hypothetical scenario, which cannot be proved or disproved. In the end, I think if it made sense to trade the pick, it would have been traded. I choose to believe that Mac has done this enough to recognize a good deal from a bad one. But, I admit, I would like to see some positive evidence very soon.

At all costs was a poor choice of words. However the #1 goal in this draft should have been to turn 6 overall into more picks. Instead we got a strong safety. Joy.

[phill1c]

7 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

At all costs was a poor choice of words. However the #1 goal in this draft should have been to turn 6 overall into more picks. Instead we got a strong safety. Joy.

Yes, it was a horrible choice of words.

But there's more wrong: there are additional opportunities for trades. The draft didn't end at the first round. In fact, it goes on and on forever it appears.

 

[Snell41]

We very well may have talked to HOU, in fact given the connection I bet we did. The problem is had we taken exactly what HOU gave up, we would have been grossly under compensated for the pick. A gm can't do that. A little less than value is one thing, but as was mentioned we likely would have garnered another 2nd rounder to be fair equal value. Also remember 2 QB's were on the board with no real threats between us and the 12th pick to draft one until KC traded up.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, phill1c said:

Yes, it was a horrible choice of words.

I will say 8 Hail Marys.

[K_O_Brien]

Houston have already given up two firsts, a second, a sixth and Brock Osweiler to acquire Deshaun Watson and a fourth. Rick Smith would have been run of town if he had to give up another second to move up to number six, when there was no need to. 

[ASH1962]

24 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I'm saying if KC/HOU proposed to us what they did with Buffalo/CLE you take it since we weren't drafting a QB anyways.The Jets are going to suck next year so they're going to have to take a QB in round 1 sooner rather than later. Give yourself another pick to do so.

This was my point exactly which the haters have turned into my complaining about the Adams pick which I certainly did not.

[NoBowles]

I would have been very happy with that trade haul. Problem is, that trade probably does not help Bowles and Maccagnan save their jobs, Adams may. This is the position you are in when you have an awful, awful owner who has no clue on how to run a successful franchise, or put a proper power structure in place. If your a GM that is looking at the franchise for now and 3 years from now, they are much more likely to make that trade. We also don't know if it was offered to the Jets or not.

[phill1c]

10 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I will say 8 Hail Marys.

LOL Good one. I will say 4 for being absurdly harsh.

[phill1c]

3 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

I would have been very happy with that trade haul. Problem is, that trade probably does not help Bowles and Maccagnan save their jobs, Adams may. This is the position you are in when you have an awful, awful owner who has no clue on how to run a successful franchise, or put a proper power structure in place. If your a GM that is looking at the franchise for now and 3 years from now, they are much more likely to make that trade. We also don't know if it was offered to the Jets or not.

Hmm, so you've made up a whole negative scenario that fits your screen name based on a hypothetical trade. The owner may be horrible politically, well, really, no doubt about that. But nothing offered here that has any fact behind it makes your opinion valid. The Jets picked the BPA, which also happened to be at a position of DIRE need. The coach and GM already have huge votes of confidence. The only people even remotely considering a change have it written on their screen names in internet chat rooms.

[NoBowles]

Just now, phill1c said:

Hmm, so you've made up a whole negative scenario that fits your screen name based on a hypothetical trade. The owner may be horrible politically, well, really, no doubt about that. But nothing offered here that has any fact behind it makes your opinion valid. The Jets picked the BPA, which also happened to be at a position of DIRE need. The coach and GM already have huge votes of confidence. The only people even remotely considering a change have it written on their screen names in internet chat rooms.

Wow, just wow. First off, I am not bitching about the pick, I am answering the question posed by the OP. I actually like Adams a lot as a player, I just do get the complaining about taking a S with the 6th overall pick, and would have loved to have gotten that type of haul for 6, thats all.

Regarding Maccagnan and Bowles having huge votes of confidence, I have a bridge for sale. Its in Brooklyn, and its a great bridge, and I'd be willing to negotiate a good deal if your interested. Looking at this roster, if and when this team goes 4-12 this year, you really think both Maccagan and Bowles will be back again, here? Have you followed this owner and team for long? He fired Mangini after having 2 winning seasons.

Regarding the politics, no need for you to shove your libtard agenda into this post, keep it to yourself.

[JetsFanatic]

1 hour ago, ASH1962 said:

Houston traded up to #13 and gave up this years 1, next years 1, a 2 and a 3 I think (or whatever the actual trade was, I do not remember but you get the point).

Would we not have been ecstatic to get this for the #6 pick? Are we to believe Hou would not have given up this lot for the #6, but gave it up for #13? I love the Adams pick, hope he will be a great player, but we listened to all of the BS about trading down, all of the nonsense about the phones ringing off of the wall, and yet again, picked a defensive player while we have zero offense and zero speed on offense and ST's. Not sure if Adams can return punts or kicks.

It struck me as really strange last night that Houston gave up so much for #13 but we could not get that same lot for #6.

Am I crazy?

 

 

 

 

Costs a ton more to trade for 6 rather then    13.

[HighPitch]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

probably didn't call the jets, thinking the price would be way worse.

Really? 

He certainly called. Its called due diligence

[Drums]

What's done is done.

[JiFtheOracle]

1 hour ago, ASH1962 said:

Houston traded up to #13 and gave up this years 1, next years 1, a 2 and a 3 I think (or whatever the actual trade was, I do not remember but you get the point).

Would we not have been ecstatic to get this for the #6 pick? Are we to believe Hou would not have given up this lot for the #6, but gave it up for #13? I love the Adams pick, hope he will be a great player, but we listened to all of the BS about trading down, all of the nonsense about the phones ringing off of the wall, and yet again, picked a defensive player while we have zero offense and zero speed on offense and ST's. Not sure if Adams can return punts or kicks.

It struck me as really strange last night that Houston gave up so much for #13 but we could not get that same lot for #6.

Am I crazy?

 

 

 

 

Who knows.  We never will.

This post got me thinking though; when was the last time a blockbuster draft day trade down actually worked for the team accumulating all the picks? Obviously we wont know about last years and this years trade because those players havent taken the field but looking back at the 2 big ones in recent years I can remember, the team getting all the picks didnt get any better.

Falcons traded with the Browns for Julio - the Browns suck

Redskins traded with Rams for RGIII - Rams still suck

Am I missing any other big ones?   

[jamesr]

8 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

Really? 

He certainly called. Its called due diligence

Thing is, the conversation is more likely to be "what are you looking for" rather than "here's what I'm offering".

If people rang Macc and he said "I'll take anything that's going", he'd get killed for that and rightly so. You have to get a good return on your pick, otherwise you're essentially giving away the exact things you're trying to accumulate.

[phill1c]

27 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Wow, just wow. First off, I am not bitching about the pick, I am answering the question posed by the OP. I actually like Adams a lot as a player, I just do get the complaining about taking a S with the 6th overall pick, and would have loved to have gotten that type of haul for 6, thats all.

Regarding Maccagnan and Bowles having huge votes of confidence, I have a bridge for sale. Its in Brooklyn, and its a great bridge, and I'd be willing to negotiate a good deal if your interested. Looking at this roster, if and when this team goes 4-12 this year, you really think both Maccagan and Bowles will be back again, here? Have you followed this owner and team for long? He fired Mangini after having 2 winning seasons.

Regarding the politics, no need for you to shove your libtard agenda into this post, keep it to yourself.

Like you have a bridge...you probably live under a bridge.

"libtard"? Wow, it's like I stepped into a time capsule and wound up in 1988.