Nothing on the tiny backer?

[Paradis]

3 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

Can I wait a season or two to see how they develop and if they improve or not? 

no, actually you can't. That's why loser teams do, they wait around for 3-4 seasons... Yes, there's some players that get better over time, but one can distinguish sucking without the need for laborious development.

Let me put it this way, the number of players who suck, then suddenly become good - are few. So few  that you don't get the aforementioned season or two. 

[jetspenguin]

7 hours ago, gEYno said:

Gotta credit Todd Bowles for coaching him up.

that is NOT gonna happen here hahahahahaha

[MDL_JET]

9 minutes ago, Paradis said:

no, actually you can't. That's why loser teams do, they wait around for 3-4 seasons... Yes, there's some players that get better over time, but one can distinguish sucking without the need for laborious development.

Let me put it this way, the number of players who suck, then suddenly become good - are few. So few  that you don't get the aforementioned season or two. 

I agree but I was talking about guys on the back end of the roster. Ones we haven’t seen a ton of yet. 6th round picks I think deserve a little time to develop no? 

[Paradis]

9 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

I agree but I was talking about guys on the back end of the roster. Ones we haven’t seen a ton of yet. 6th round picks I think deserve a little time to develop no? 

Sure. They get to hang around and fight for ST snaps and scraps, but next TC they'll have to stave off the next wave. 

[Beerfish]

As I said before Lees impact is totally dependant on two things,

1)  Our Dline actually playing well and not loafing thus keeping him clean.

2)  Other teams not scheming to run at him and or go after him with a TE or Rb.

[hmhertz]

8 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Not Kevin Greene ? I think I would lean toward Greene 

Kevin Greene is not his position coach, Mike Caldwell Assistant Head Coach

& inside line backer coach is

[Charlie Brown]

8 hours ago, gEYno said:

Who was hired by????????????????????????????????

You have to stop this!!

Didn't you get the memo????

Everything bad that happens on the Jets should be placed on Bowles and anything good that happens should attributed to someone else...

[Jetster]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Who said Jenkins is a scrub?  I don't recall ever reading that.  What I have read is that he is not a high upside player.  He was slow in the runs, but did fairly well in the jumps.  He does have tremendous reach and huge hands.  Sort of the opposite of Dylan Donahue. 

The main issue with Jenkins is that people want to rant about him starting from day one, but that was what most people expected of him pre-draft.  He would be a plug and play guy, but not to expect a superstar.  A nice need pick to replace Pace, but it is unlikely that he will turn into Terrell Suggs. 

BS...Jag was the word most associated with him. What's really fun is all of these young guys are getting used to playing with each other & seem to be getting excited as they start diagnosing plays etc. I think Adams & Maye are the catalysts. You don't need superstars at every defensive position. You need guys who know their roles a few playmakers. We're still looking for our edge rushers, let's hope we can draft one & Luck into a Ziggy Ansah.

[#27TheDominator]

58 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

I agree but I was talking about guys on the back end of the roster. Ones we haven’t seen a ton of yet. 6th round picks I think deserve a little time to develop no? 

You said we had a "good young talent base" When the guys on the back end of your roster have literally never seen the field, they cannot be considered part of a "talent base"  They are hope for the future.  It does not mean they should all be cut, but counting on them or calling them "talent" is ridiculous.  Understand that these players are behind Buster Skrine on the depth chart, not Patrick Peterson. 

5 minutes ago, Jetster said:

BS...Jag was the word most associated with him. What's really fun is all of these young guys are getting used to playing with each other & seem to be getting excited as they start diagnosing plays etc. I think Adams & Maye are the catalysts. You don't need superstars at every defensive position. You need guys who know their roles a few playmakers. We're still looking for our edge rushers, let's hope we can draft one & Luck into a Ziggy Ansah.

Actually, he is a JAG.  Just Another Guy.  Not a stud, though he had a nice game yesterday.  Of course there is the chance that he will turn out to be more, but it isn't likely.  4.8 guys don't become speed rushers.  The trouble with this place is half the place thinks JAG is such an insult and the other half thinks that stocking a team with JAGs (replacement level players) is an accomplishment. 

I agree that he is a guy that seems to know his role and fulfill it.  The problem is, his role is the easier OLB role to fill.  You can't luck into Ziggy Ansah drafting players that run 4.8.  Mauldin was another edge guy who was kind of a slug.  We need plus athletes at impact positions and we aren't finding them. 

[CanadaSteve]

9 hours ago, KRL said:

That won't happen, the critics always hide when there's success by a player they've trolled

Yes, its a common theme on this website.

Here is my question: We were predicted by many to go 0-16, or at best 2-14.  We are currently 4-5.  Does this mean the team is better than we thought talent-wise, and IF it is, does Mac get credit for that?  Or should he still be fired because he didn't draft DeShaun Watson?

[Smashmouth]

46 minutes ago, hmhertz said:

Kevin Greene is not his position coach, Mike Caldwell Assistant Head Coach

& inside line backer coach is

thanks.....I didnt know we have ILB and OLB coaches

[Smashmouth]

38 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

You have to stop this!!

Didn't you get the memo????

Everything bad that happens on the Jets should be placed on Bowles and anything good that happens should attributed to someone else...

well in fairness Bowles does not coach the LB's and Bowles still botches up time management and in game adjustments

[CanadaSteve]

4 hours ago, Warfish said:

If it's a "Beat the Bastard Bostonian's then Barter for Baker" Party, then yes.  I'd love to come.

Sounds like a fun night.  Can I come?  I'll bring tea....

[Smashmouth]

2 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Yes, its a common theme on this website.

Here is my question: We were predicted by many to go 0-16, or at best 2-14.  We are currently 4-5.  Does this mean the team is better than we thought talent-wise, and IF it is, does Mac get credit for that?  Or should he still be fired because he didn't draft DeShaun Watson?

Macc is doing a good job I think this organization felt it could still compete with past veterans and that was a mistake in Macc's first 2 years. As soon as Macc went into full rebuild mode hes done a good job IMHO. 

[Smashmouth]

8 hours ago, Maxman said:

I think I would lean less towards Greene and more towards Mike Caldwell.

yup I didn't realize that.

 

Mike Caldwell for HC 

 

CARRY ON

 

 

 

[Smashmouth]

8 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Darron Lee has progressed all the way up to looking like an average ILB in the NFL and will never be worthy of his draft slot and won’t be worth giving a second contract to that’s not at average ILB numbers. You halfwits stroking your nuts over his progress are benefitting from lowered expectations and short memories. 

I didn't realize average

[redlichtie]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Again, the problem people had with Lee, just like Jamal Adams, was never about the players themselves.  No one here in their right mind hated either player. 

What we hate is where they were taken in the draft, and the inability of the GM to successfully evaluate or draft impact players at QB, Edge Rusher, and other important positions. 

Lee had better not be a bust based on where we took him.  But Macc painted himself into that corner, not Darron Lee himself.  

Lee was drafted right where he was generally predicted to go, Adams was universally rated a top 3 pick(some even had him above Myles Garrett as best player in the draft)...and we got him at 6!....result..

We desperately needed to add speed to our defense and LBer unit(Lee) and our safeties might have been the worst in the league so getting the top rated safety to come out over the last few years(Adams) was a solid move at the very least,  meanwhile Marcus Maye was touted as a late first rounder going anywhere as high as 18-20...we got him in the 2nd....what’s not to like?

for sure we desperately need an edge rusher but who exactly were you drafting at 6 this year or 20 last year? What were you giving up to trade into Number 1 overall to get a difference maker like Garrett?

We know Mac was prepared to go up and get Tunsil last year when he started to drop so we know he’s prepared to be aggressive for premium players at premium positions but ultimately how much are people prepared to give up for these moves? It’s like people think we can just move up without having to sacrifice those valuable 2nd or 3rd round picks. The way the board has fallen those key position players haven’t matched the value where we’ve picked. It’s easy to sit in hindsight and say we should’ve picked this player or that player but at the time the costs involved just didn’t merit pulling the trigger and i’m sure we’d all then be whining about trading away valuable draft picks, our roster is so devoid of talent apparently that we need all the help we can get.

Historically we’ve had GM’s that have chased players at positions of need while leaving the ‘best available’ talent on the board and it got us largely nowhere while we all screamed at the GM for passing over the Warren Sapp’s of this world. This way we are slowly adding talent, not every pick will work out but I can’t kill Mac for any of the picks he’s made other than with the wonderful benefit of hindsight.

[JohnnyLV]

Let's not forget Jordan Jenkins in this as well. His elevated play at setting an edge gives Lee more opportunities to make a play

[C Mart]

9 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Not Kevin Greene ? I think I would lean toward Greene 

You should lean towards Mike Caldwell. He’s the ILB coach. 

 

[detectivekimble]

Lee is tied for second among ILBs/MLBs with 7 tackles for losses.  He also has 2 sacks and 2 forced fumbles.  He's looking good.

[LionelRichie]

4 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Yes, its a common theme on this website.

Here is my question: We were predicted by many to go 0-16, or at best 2-14.  We are currently 4-5.  Does this mean the team is better than we thought talent-wise, and IF it is, does Mac get credit for that?  Or should he still be fired because he didn't draft DeShaun Watson?

we are looking for a path to the super bowl and I don't see it with the "talent" that Macc has accumulated in 3 drafts and ton of $ in FA.   hell, we are paying revis $6M to sit on his ass and watch the games from his couch.   

Macc has demonstrated that he doesn't understand today's NFL.   he seems to grade all positions equally and doesn't weight players according to positional importance.   I will never understand "liking" mahomes and watson but not at #6 and then drafting a freaking safety.  You can get a safety in rd 2 (see Maye, Marcus).   

so lee is playing better, as a jet fan i think that's great.  he's still not a game changer and guy that you gameplan around.   that's what we should be looking for in 1st rd picks.  

[RSJ]

Lee has looked great. Perhaps he is is comfortable now and we are seeing that great athletic ability.

[MDL_JET]

24 minutes ago, LionelRichie said:

we are looking for a path to the super bowl and I don't see it with the "talent" that Macc has accumulated in 3 drafts and ton of $ in FA.   hell, we are paying revis $6M to sit on his ass and watch the games from his couch.   

Macc has demonstrated that he doesn't understand today's NFL.   he seems to grade all positions equally and doesn't weight players according to positional importance.   I will never understand "liking" mahomes and watson but not at #6 and then drafting a freaking safety.  You can get a safety in rd 2 (see Maye, Marcus).   

so lee is playing better, as a jet fan i think that's great.  he's still not a game changer and guy that you gameplan around.   that's what we should be looking for in 1st rd picks.  

If not Lee, is there a game changer we should have picked? I wanted Lynch but lookin at it now, outside of QB, doesn’t seem like much was available. 

[LionelRichie]

7 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

If not Lee, is there a game changer we should have picked? I wanted Lynch but lookin at it now, outside of QB, doesn’t seem like much was available. 

it's more of a theme with macc - his 1st rd picks so far are DT, ILB (tiny), S - none of which are impact positions in today's NFL.   if i was GM I probably would have rolled the dice on WR consecutive picks after lee.  

my big problem with Macc was the '17 draft where we could have traded down and added an '18 1st or taken mahomes or watson.   both of those QB's would have provide hope to a fan base desperate for a future.   right now the team is overachieving but at best treading water. 

this team needs game changers - QB, WR, OLB, OT.   what has Macc done to address those positions?   we have a $17M JAG at DE, $6M in revis sitting on his couch, and $6M in dead money for TB's backup QB.     

[SenorGato]

5 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Yes, its a common theme on this website.

Here is my question: We were predicted by many to go 0-16, or at best 2-14.  We are currently 4-5.  Does this mean the team is better than we thought talent-wise, and IF it is, does Mac get credit for that?  Or should he still be fired because he didn't draft DeShaun Watson?

I honestly don’t care who is in charge so long as they pick up one or two QBs this offseason. Between FA and the draft there is zero reason for the Jets to not have a passing game next year. All they need to do to find a passer and a pass rusher through the draft is the opposite of what the franchise has always done. The Jets have always been willing to spend a little in FA and there could/should be two really good veteran QBs available. 

 

 

[MDL_JET]

2 minutes ago, LionelRichie said:

it's more of a theme with macc - his 1st rd picks so far are DT, ILB (tiny), S - none of which are impact positions in today's NFL.   if i was GM I probably would have rolled the dice on WR consecutive picks after lee.  

my big problem with Macc was the '17 draft where we could have traded down and added an '18 1st or taken mahomes or watson.   both of those QB's would have provide hope to a fan base desperate for a future.   right now the team is overachieving but at best treading water.   

You can’t sit there and say you want this team taking game changing, impact players and then say you’d take two WRs after being ok with Lee. I can’t take that seriously. 

[SenorGato]

I would like to not see Mahomes and Watson lumped together as if they were interchangeable on draft day. I see it way too often. I don’t know if Mahomes is good or not but Watson was a badass prospect. 

[C Mart]

1 hour ago, LionelRichie said:

it's more of a theme with macc - his 1st rd picks so far are DT, ILB (tiny), S - none of which are impact positions in today's NFL.   if i was GM I probably would have rolled the dice on WR consecutive picks after lee.  

my big problem with Macc was the '17 draft where we could have traded down and added an '18 1st or taken mahomes or watson.   both of those QB's would have provide hope to a fan base desperate for a future.   right now the team is overachieving but at best treading water. 

this team needs game changers - QB, WR, OLB, OT.   what has Macc done to address those positions?   we have a $17M JAG at DE, $6M in revis sitting on his couch, and $6M in dead money for TB's backup QB.     

???

not impact in today’s NFL? A fast ILB, who has been making plays all over the field the past 3 weeks, isn’t needed in today’s NFL?  A S that can line up all over the field isn’t needed in today’s NFL?  A disruptive 300lb DL isn’t needed in today’s NFL? Ok then.  It’s not good enough they aren’t busts but now they have to be HOFers by the time they turn 22 yrs old.  

And I see it mentioned somewhere in here if a player doesn’t do anything in his 1st or 2nd yr they are basically a jag and won’t improve.  

Is it any wonder there are many in here who are always critical and negative towards every move Mcc makes and every decision Bowles makes. 

Its a shame many here don’t see what’s being developed with this team. These guys are improving, playing faster, gaining confidence, pulling for one another, appear to like each other. Is this a finished product? No. But this team is on the upswing. 

[LIJetsFan]

Good post C Mart, thanks.  

[redlichtie]

12 hours ago, detectivekimble said:

Lee is tied for second among ILBs/MLBs with 7 tackles for losses.  He also has 2 sacks and 2 forced fumbles.  He's looking good.

No i’m Sorry you’re wrong, he’s not ‘an impact player’ or ‘a difference maker’ (I know because so many Jets fans say so)so these stats are clearly made up and entirely bogus..they simply cannot be right, he was drafted way too soon and speedy LBers with that many TFL’S, INT’S and Sacks are not premium players and can be easily had in the middle rounds or even picked up as UDFA’s

you must be mistaken

[Philc1]

Induct him to Canton

[Philc1]

11 hours ago, SenorGato said:

I would like to not see Mahomes and Watson lumped together as if they were interchangeable on draft day. I see it way too often. I don’t know if Mahomes is good or not but Watson was a badass prospect. 

When we sign McCown to a 3-year extension and draft a CB u will forget about Watson and Sam Darnold 

[redlichtie]

17 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

You said we had a "good young talent base" When the guys on the back end of your roster have literally never seen the field, they cannot be considered part of a "talent base"  They are hope for the future.  It does not mean they should all be cut, but counting on them or calling them "talent" is ridiculous.  Understand that these players are behind Buster Skrine on the depth chart, not Patrick Peterson. 

Actually, he is a JAG.  Just Another Guy.  Not a stud, though he had a nice game yesterday.  Of course there is the chance that he will turn out to be more, but it isn't likely.  4.8 guys don't become speed rushers.  The trouble with this place is half the place thinks JAG is such an insult and the other half thinks that stocking a team with JAGs (replacement level players) is an accomplishment. 

I agree that he is a guy that seems to know his role and fulfill it.  The problem is, his role is the easier OLB role to fill.  You can't luck into Ziggy Ansah drafting players that run 4.8.  Mauldin was another edge guy who was kind of a slug.  We need plus athletes at impact positions and we aren't finding them. 

It’s not that we aren’t finding them, those plus athletes you talk about don’t tend to last much beyond the top 5 picks in the draft. Then you get into the TimWilliams’ of the world who come with serious baggage/deficiencies. I’m as annoyed as anyone that we have never properly addressed the edge rush position going all the way back to John Abraham(that was the year 2000 btw!!)that way precedes Maccagnan and Bowles. We tried to with Gholston who was the dictionary definition of a plus athlete and we all know how that went.

Jenkins is a capable, above average disciplined player with some upside, he’ll be even more effective when surrounded by better talent and in particular a speed rusher off the other edge should elevate not only Jenkins play but the rest of the D. You can’t have a unit of Erik McMillan style riverboat gamblers making splash plays everywhere but freelancing out of basic assignments and gap responsibilities, you need the JJ’s of this world too, the final piece in our puzzle is indeed adding a dynamic speed rusher to get to QB’s quicker and while that isn’t Jordan Jenkins his role is vital in building a strong defensive unit that we can move forward with.

[redlichtie]

9 hours ago, C Mart said:

???

not impact in today’s NFL? A fast ILB, who has been making plays all over the field the past 3 weeks, isn’t needed in today’s NFL?  A S that can line up all over the field isn’t needed in today’s NFL?  A disruptive 300lb DL isn’t needed in today’s NFL? Ok then.  It’s not good enough they aren’t busts but now they have to be HOFers by the time they turn 22 yrs old.  

And I see it mentioned somewhere in here if a player doesn’t do anything in his 1st or 2nd yr they are basically a jag and won’t improve.  

Is it any wonder there are many in here who are always critical and negative towards every move Mcc makes and every decision Bowles makes. 

Its a shame many here don’t see what’s being developed with this team. These guys are improving, playing faster, gaining confidence, pulling for one another, appear to like each other. Is this a finished product? No. But this team is on the upswing. 

Great post as ever CMart

the other thing I think with our defence is it’s still evolving away from the Rex Ryan type of player which was all about behemoths up front who while great athletes for their size simply aren’t going to have the electrifying burst at 300lbs + that a 250lb player can have. If you look at the D Bowles ran in Arizona he utilised some big men up front(Calais Campbell 310, DanWilliams 325) but favoured greater speed and burst of smaller lighter players around them(Darnell Dockett 285, Larry Foote 234, Deone. Bucannon 210) he also had some pretty good shutdown corners in Patrick Peterson and Cro.

It’s happening a bit too slowly for my liking but you can see the pattern emerging through the last couple of seasons, we are adding big, long and athletic corners and trying to add greater speed and athleticism without entirely overhauling the defensive unit, which is where guys like Darron Lee come in. It;s taking a while for sure but this is a unit that fielded Calvin Pace(270) Sheldon Richardson(294) and Quinton Coples(290) at OLB....like you said there is a development taking place, it’s evolution not revolution and that means growing pains but you can see what they are trying to do.

[CanadaSteve]

12 hours ago, LionelRichie said:

we are looking for a path to the super bowl and I don't see it with the "talent" that Macc has accumulated in 3 drafts and ton of $ in FA.   hell, we are paying revis $6M to sit on his ass and watch the games from his couch.   

Macc has demonstrated that he doesn't understand today's NFL.   he seems to grade all positions equally and doesn't weight players according to positional importance.   I will never understand "liking" mahomes and watson but not at #6 and then drafting a freaking safety.  You can get a safety in rd 2 (see Maye, Marcus).   

so lee is playing better, as a jet fan i think that's great.  he's still not a game changer and guy that you gameplan around.   that's what we should be looking for in 1st rd picks.  

True....but to play devils advocate, and for the sake of open dialogue.  I was VERY upset with the Darron Lee pick.  Since Paxton Lynch fell, I wanted us to take him.  If we took him, he would have been a completely wasted draft pick in the 1st round.  The guy cannot beat out Trevor Siemien and Brock Osweiller.  And we complain about Hack!

So, does he get a passing grade (Mac) because he passed on a QB, even though he was graded as a first rounder, and took a player that is now contributing?  Or do we still give him grief because he didn't pull the trigger on Lynch?  The next question then is this?  Is Mac just afraid now to pull the trigger on a QB, knowing that if the next one bomb's, his ass is gone?  If that is why he didn't pull the trigger, than that could be a concern, because sooner or later, you have to draft someone.

I made this comment in another thread: This was my only concern of Mac when hired: He comes from an organization that has totally ignored the QB position draft wise for over a decade.  They chose to sign FA QB's while dabbling in 6 round possibilities at the position.  What gets me is they appeared to be gun-shy after drafting Carr with the first overall pick, but the issue wasn't Carr: It was the fact he got murdered without an O-Line.  They then signed Schaub to big money, and kept going with a stop-gap.  They then finally took another chance at QB in the first round and found Watson.  In actuality, hitting with a QB in the first round at a 50 percent rate is pretty damn good!

It is time for our GM to grow a sack and take a shot at a QB in the first round.