Do we really want Kirk Cousins?

[bla bla bla]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I do understand and I'm not happy about it but I don't think Cousins is capable of winning a Super Bowl as an "offensive" team.  If you're going to win with Cousins you'll need a dominant defense.

My preference is to draft Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold (who can be an offensive superstar) and build an strong offense around them.  at that point I agree - 80% offense.

Brady has never won a super bowl without a top 10 defense. The Redskins had 20 players on IR (2nd to only the Giants). Cousins lead Pass offenses have been 10th, 3rd, and 12th in the NFL. Not sure I can blame him for the running game. The inability for his team to stay healthy has hurt him the most IMO.

[kelly]

On 1/4/2018 at 4:30 PM, Philc1 said:

You do realize the redskins stadium is outdoors?  

[SenorGato]

3 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Brady has never won a super bowl without a top 10 defense. 

Yea but he proved he can do it. Cousins? Where is the evidence?

One does not pick up on the nuances of winning at 30, especially at that price! It requires YEARS of forging your will with fire and cooling it ice blood. 

[flgreen]

57 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

How many teams with a to 10 QB have not signed the QB to a big deal and moved on from him without a replacement in place?

Cousins has been with the Redskins a long time. If he's not convinced them he's their franchise QB, why would anyone else pay him like one?

Because Dan Snyder is a moron?  

[SenorGato]

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

How many teams with a to 10 QB have not signed the QB to a big deal and moved on from him without a replacement in place?

Cousins has been with the Redskins a long time. If he's not convinced them he's their franchise QB, why would anyone else pay him like one?

QED and QFT 

This  is DIRECTLY tied to the quality of player Cousins is. The Redskins have long been renowned for their wisdom and winning ways. They paid this guy ~$45 million over two years to prove that he was a man, that he could do for teams what Brady and Manning and SB winners do, and he just took the money and laughed to the banks. Maybe there were stats but not wins, not wins. 

 

[flgreen]

16 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

QED and QFT 

This  is DIRECTLY tied to the quality of player Cousins is. The Redskins have long been renowned for their wisdom and winning ways. They paid this guy ~$45 million over two years to prove that he was a man, that he could do for teams what Brady and Manning and SB winners do, and he just took the money and laughed to the banks. Maybe there were stats but not wins, not wins. 

 

Since Dan  Snyder has owned the team they are 132-171.  2 Playoff wins

[JetsFanatic]

17 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Since Dan  Snyder has owned the team they are 132-171.  2 Playoff wins

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

[bla bla bla]

18 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Yea but he proved he can do it. Cousins? Where is the evidence?

One does not pick up on the nuances of winning at 30, especially at that price! It requires YEARS of forging your will with fire and cooling it ice blood. 

Wait so only SB winning QBs can prove they can win a Super Bowl? Brees started for 8 years before he won a super bowl (age 30) and he only had 2 seasons where he won over 9 games prior to that. 

Not saying you are one but I hate fans that are Super Bowl or failure with the QB position. If the NFL has taught us anything it's that any given team can win on any given day, just being in the conversation automatically gives you a shot at a Super Bowl. This is not like a series where the best team will eventually win 4 out of 7 games. Big Ben and Brady are on their last legs, with the way we played this past season I am cautiously optimistic to add a top 10 QB for 6-8 years and an additional $60M in FAs plus 4 high draft picks. 

[bla bla bla]

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

How many teams with a to 10 QB have not signed the QB to a big deal and moved on from him without a replacement in place?

Cousins has been with the Redskins a long time. If he's not convinced them he's their franchise QB, why would anyone else pay him like one?

They have tried to sign him long term, Cousins doesn't want to play there. He says all the right things to the media but if he wanted to be a Redskin he would have countered their previous offer. This is a situation that has never happened before in the NFL, we'd be fools not to take advantage of it.

[Patriot Killa]

47 minutes ago, kelly said:

Can you stop replying to everything with BBT gifs..the show sucks and you aren’t a woman.

[jetstream23]

The thing I like most about signing a FA QB like Cousins would be that it immediately frees up our #6 pick and both 2nd rounders to upgrade other parts of the team.  Moving from #6 to #3 or #4 would have a cost.....moving higher than that would be exorbitant and likely not even possible.  Cousins is a very good QB who doesn't have the Bust risk that any of these rookies have, even Rosen and Darnold.  Sign Cousins and then go BAP at #6, possibly an OLineman or stud pass rusher.  Then come back early in Round 2 to get a RB and another piece, maybe a CB.  That would be an excellent offseason IMO.

I think RB Barkley will be out of reach at #6 but there will be other guys available early in Round 2.  Just look at this year's top rookie RBs and where they were drafted.  We passed on Alvin Kamara, Kareem Hunt, Dalvin Cook, etc.

Signing Cousins gets the Jets an instant starting QB with no Bust risk and, as importantly, unlocks the Draft for us.  JMHO.

[SenorGato]

Big Bang Theory is at least as funny as Nick Cannon, and Nick Cannon is hilarious. 

[Charlie Brown]

56 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Because Dan Snyder is a moron!!!!! (fixed)

People are saying because Washington didn't do X,Y or Z that makes it right???

Oh Boy.....

[SenorGato]

25 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Wait so only SB winning QBs can prove they can win a Super Bowl? Brees started for 8 years before he won a super bowl (age 30) and he only had 2 seasons where he won over 9 games prior to that. 

Not saying you are one but I hate fans that are Super Bowl or failure with the QB position. If the NFL has taught us anything it's that any given team can win on any given day, just being in the conversation automatically gives you a shot at a Super Bowl. This is not like a series where the best team will eventually win 4 out of 7 games. Big Ben and Brady are on their last legs, with the way we played this past season I am cautiously optimistic to add a top 10 QB for 6-8 years and an additional $60M in FAs plus 4 high draft picks. 

Like it or not the QB position is about wins and losses. Either outcome is a skill a player is actually born with as opposed to learn, though attempts have been made and some might argue that Manning succeeded. Winning or losing is in the DNA. 

From there Cousins has proven to be a 7-9 win guy who will lose you a WC game. The proof is in the pudding. 2015 9-7 WC loss, 8-8, and 7-9. He is even declining! Probably from being so old on top of a born loser. 

You bring up Brees but what has he won lately? Guy has been living it up compiling stats for a decade now! 

[Patriot Killa]

25 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Big Bang Theory is at least as funny as Nick Cannon, and Nick Cannon’s career and fame is hilarious. 

 

[YouPlay2Win]

The thing I like most about signing a FA QB like Cousins would be that it immediately frees up our #6 pick and both 2nd rounders to upgrade other parts of the team.  Moving from #6 to #3 or #4 would have a cost.....moving higher than that would be exorbitant and likely not even possible.  Cousins is a very good QB who doesn't have the Bust risk that any of these rookies have, even Rosen and Darnold.  Sign Cousins and then go BAP at #6, possibly an OLineman or stud pass rusher.  Then come back early in Round 2 to get a RB and another piece, maybe a CB.  That would be an excellent offseason IMO.
I think RB Barkley will be out of reach at #6 but there will be other guys available early in Round 2.  Just look at this year's top rookie RBs and where they were drafted.  We passed on Alvin Kamara, Kareem Hunt, Dalvin Cook, etc.
Signing Cousins gets the Jets an instant starting QB with no Bust risk and, as importantly, unlocks the Draft for us.  JMHO.

This is my rational for signing Cousins. He’s not elite but I think he’s better than the tyrod taylor , alex smith types. He’s definitely better than mccown . I think they can be a 10 win team with Cousins. Jets easily could have won the Saints game and Chargers game with a competent QB. This also leaves the whole draft for other positions...Oline/edge/rb/cb. Why the hate ? He’s improved statistically and his surrounding talent level has been questionable . Unless you trade up for the top pick, these qbs prospects all have question marks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[detectivekimble]

2 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

The thing I like most about signing a FA QB like Cousins would be that it immediately frees up our #6 pick and both 2nd rounders to upgrade other parts of the team.  Moving from #6 to #3 or #4 would have a cost.....moving higher than that would be exorbitant and likely not even possible.  Cousins is a very good QB who doesn't have the Bust risk that any of these rookies have, even Rosen and Darnold.  Sign Cousins and then go BAP at #6, possibly an OLineman or stud pass rusher.  Then come back early in Round 2 to get a RB and another piece, maybe a CB.  That would be an excellent offseason IMO.

I think RB Barkley will be out of reach at #6 but there will be other guys available early in Round 2.  Just look at this year's top rookie RBs and where they were drafted.  We passed on Alvin Kamara, Kareem Hunt, Dalvin Cook, etc.

Signing Cousins gets the Jets an instant starting QB with no Bust risk and, as importantly, unlocks the Draft for us.  JMHO.

The Jets can get good really quickly if they sign Cousins.  They'll still have plenty of cap and plenty of draft picks.  They could even get a king's ransom for that #6 pick.

[Rangers9]

Look there's a bunch of vet Qbs like him who will be available and should be upgrades for the Jets in 2018. And Cousins is one of them. But if the criterion for making that decision is not winning important games esp in the playoffs not many can make that assertion. Cousins hasn't really won much. They got scorched in the playoffs last year against GB. But do I like him for the Jets. Sure, why not. 

[Gas2No99]

Cousins is a quality starter, but won't get you over the hump.

Is he an upgrade for the Jets at QB? OF COURSE!

But if his price tag is going to be as astronomical as some here speculate, then it's BAD value for a QB who ISN'T a closer. I've seen him choke in enough games to know he will NOT be worth his asking price. 

Some valid, sound arguments IN FAVOR of Cousins have been made in previous posts, but it's not enough to sell me on signing Cousins at his desired price tag. I'd rather take a shot with a cheap, young, dynamic, QB draft pick.

[slats]

14 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Look there's a bunch of vet Qbs like him who will be available and should be upgrades for the Jets in 2018. And Cousins is one of them. But if the criterion for making that decision is not winning important games esp in the playoffs not many can make that assertion. Cousins hasn't really won much. They got scorched in the playoffs last year against GB. But do I like him for the Jets. Sure, why not. 

Is Maccagnan about building a championship team or just keeping his job? Signing Cousins keeps his job, almost certainly. Almost as certain, it's not a championship move. Much, much more risk with the rookies, obviously, but also much more potential reward should he hit on the right guy. 

[Rangers9]

5 minutes ago, slats said:

Is Maccagnan about building a championship team or just keeping his job? Signing Cousins keeps his job, almost certainly. Almost as certain, it's not a championship move. Much, much more risk with the rookies, obviously, but also much more potential reward should he hit on the right guy. 

There's a 1 out of 31 chance of winning a SB. Your odds are pretty low to get that ring. So imo you try to position yourself to be in contention. If you make the playoffs you can with luck etc be a SB team. And you don't even have to be the best team in the NFL to win it all. The Jets did it twice in 2009 and 2010. And we did it with an inexperienced Qb who wasn't a franchise Qb. So getting Cousins etc isn't to me just about saving your job. It can get you to the playoffs. And in the playoffs good things can happen. If you don't make the playoffs nothing happens except you get a better draft pick. 

[SenorGato]

20 minutes ago, slats said:

Is Maccagnan about building a championship team or just keeping his job? Signing Cousins keeps his job, almost certainly. Almost as certain, it's not a championship move. Much, much more risk with the rookies, obviously, but also much more potential reward should he hit on the right guy. 

Lost me here, only skipped the sentence before because every single individual transition thrown into a vacuum that does not exist is not a championship move. 

Besides lower payroll I don’t know what the bigger potential reward is. 

[slats]

5 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

There's a 1 out of 31 chance of winning a SB. Your odds are pretty low to get that ring. So imo you try to position yourself to be in contention. If you make the playoffs you can with luck etc be a SB team. And you don't even have to be the best team in the NFL to win it all. The Jets did it twice in 2009 and 2010. And we did it with an inexperienced Qb who wasn't a franchise Qb. So getting Cousins etc isn't to me just about saving your job. It can get you to the playoffs. And in the playoffs good things can happen. If you don't make the playoffs nothing happens except you get a better draft pick. 

Half the league makes the playoffs. I'm not interested in being a top 50% team, I want a championship team constructed. In today's NFL, that means an elite level QB. I don't see Cousins being that guy, and paying him $30M/year makes it more difficult to put the rest of a championship team together. It's riskier, but the more I think about it, the more I'm 100% in on the best rookie they can get at #6 (or higher with a trade up, if need be). Swing for the fences, pay him his slotted salary and build a team around him. 

[slats]

1 minute ago, SenorGato said:

Lost me here, only skipped the sentence before because every single individual transition thrown into a vacuum that does not exist is not a championship move. 

Besides lower payroll I don’t know what the bigger potential reward is. 

The potential reward should be obvious: a better QB than Kirk Cousins at a significantly lower cap number. 

[SenorGato]

1 minute ago, slats said:

In today's NFL, that means an elite level QB. 

You mean like this:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2016

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2015

or moreso? 

 

[slats]

1 minute ago, SenorGato said:

You mean like this:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2016

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2015

or moreso? 

 

Oh, stats. Cool. Never saw those before. 

[SenorGato]

13 minutes ago, slats said:

The potential reward should be obvious: a better QB than Kirk Cousins at a significantly lower cap number. 

Oh yeah true 

8 minutes ago, slats said:

Oh, stats. Cool. Never saw those before. 

Oh good Jah....

[Rangers9]

35 minutes ago, slats said:

Half the league makes the playoffs. I'm not interested in being a top 50% team, I want a championship team constructed. In today's NFL, that means an elite level QB. I don't see Cousins being that guy, and paying him $30M/year makes it more difficult to put the rest of a championship team together. It's riskier, but the more I think about it, the more I'm 100% in on the best rookie they can get at #6 (or higher with a trade up, if need be). Swing for the fences, pay him his slotted salary and build a team around him. 

I agree with you about not paying Cousins that much money. If a rookie can start and do the job, fine. Look, even Watson in training camp didn't win the job. So I draft a Qb and sign a vet. But I only start a rookie Qb who can win games. If not ready I start the vet. I don't give up a season to develop any player. Again if you make the playoffs (and only 12 out of 31 make it) you have a shot at a ring. And nine win teams have won a SB. 

[Jetsplayer21]

3 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

The thing I like most about signing a FA QB like Cousins would be that it immediately frees up our #6 pick and both 2nd rounders to upgrade other parts of the team.  Moving from #6 to #3 or #4 would have a cost.....moving higher than that would be exorbitant and likely not even possible.  Cousins is a very good QB who doesn't have the Bust risk that any of these rookies have, even Rosen and Darnold.  Sign Cousins and then go BAP at #6, possibly an OLineman or stud pass rusher.  Then come back early in Round 2 to get a RB and another piece, maybe a CB.  That would be an excellent offseason IMO.

I think RB Barkley will be out of reach at #6 but there will be other guys available early in Round 2.  Just look at this year's top rookie RBs and where they were drafted.  We passed on Alvin Kamara, Kareem Hunt, Dalvin Cook, etc.

Signing Cousins gets the Jets an instant starting QB with no Bust risk and, as importantly, unlocks the Draft for us.  JMHO.

Plus Todd Bowles and Mac wouldn’t develop a young qb correctly. A coach/ gm like that need one already potty trained. We should take the blue chip OT at 6. They may have to hold down Todd Bowles who will be screaming “ DEFENSE, ONLY DEFENSE!”

[usanyj]

People talking about the kings ransom of picks it would take to move up.  Eagle fans don't talk about the ransom they had to pay to move up and get Wentz with the mvp like number he put up before his injury.  If you pay a ransom and miss, obviously its crippling.  If you hit, no one cares how much you gave up, since like most have said, the draft can be a crap shoot anyway.

[bla bla bla]

7 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Look there's a bunch of vet Qbs like him who will be available and should be upgrades for the Jets in 2018. And Cousins is one of them. But if the criterion for making that decision is not winning important games esp in the playoffs not many can make that assertion. Cousins hasn't really won much. They got scorched in the playoffs last year against GB. But do I like him for the Jets. Sure, why not. 

Cousins only playoff appearance was in his first starting season (2015) and he went 63% 329 and 2 TDs for a QB rating of 91.7...Not sure that loss really falls on him.

7 hours ago, slats said:

Half the league makes the playoffs. I'm not interested in being a top 50% team

Not one for math are ya? 37% make the playoffs chief. 12 teams out of 32.

[slats]

12 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Not one for math are ya? 37% make the playoffs chief. 12 teams out of 32.

Lol, whatever, I'm feeling participation trophy here. 

[Rangers9]

38 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Cousins only playoff appearance was in his first starting season (2015) and he went 63% 329 and 2 TDs for a QB rating of 91.7...Not sure that loss really falls on him.

Not one for math are ya? 37% make the playoffs chief. 12 teams out of 32.

Cousin's started and played in their playoff game last January against Green Bay a 35-18 loss. 

[adb280z]

Is Cousins that far off from Matt Ryan?  Their production is pretty similar since Cousins became the starter.

[bla bla bla]

1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

Cousin's started and played in their playoff game last January against Green Bay a 35-18 loss. 

What are you talking about? The (8-7-1) Redskins did not make the playoffs last year. The game you are referring to happened in January 2016 (the 2015 season, his first as a starter)

 

Kirk Cousins Playoff Stats