A Darnold comparision I haven't heard yet

[zonajetfan]

The more and more I hear about this kid, and remember he is still a kid, a name continues to pop into my mind. Now first off, I'm a little older than some here. I just turned 40 and have been watching and involved with football for many years, so my list of possible matches for this youngster stretches farther back than some. Secondly, I'm not of course saying Sam will have the type of career this player had, he just has a similar "always cool" demeanor, work ethic, blue-collar type attitude, competitiveness and especially play style and skill set.  That player is Joe Montana.

Montana is famous for his Joe cool attitude, the John Candy SB story illustrates that perfectly, but he was just that guy. Calm and confident under pressure, the moment was never too big for him. He played with a quiet confidence, but was never the guy labeled as cocky. From what I've seen Sam play and speak and coaches who know him best, this same aura surrounds Sam.

Montana was a "gym rat" type guy, had tremendous work ethic and knew the opponents he was facing inside and out. This is a common trait among the best of the best of course i.e Manning, Brady, Brees. So this trait is a must regardless of anything else. Sam though, does seem to fit the bill for this based on people who know him best and have seen it firsthand.

Montana came from the coal-mining, blue-collar area of Pennsylvania. This would seem to be the basis for his strong work ethic, along with his parents and family of course. He didn't have a ton of football experience under his belt when he was drafted, he only played HS football for two years and back then of course Freshmen weren't eligible for varsity teams in college and he played sparingly for the freshman team at Notre Dame. He didn't become the full time starter till his redshirt junior season at Notre Dame. Darnold is the product of two hard working parents. His father is a plumber and his mother a school teacher. Sam also has limited football experience. He only played 2 years in HS at QB. He played the overwhelming percentage of his sophomore season in HS at LB and WR. At USC, he played the better part of 2 years as the starting QB. Again, this is just to illustrate that both these young men were raw and had tons of potential for growth and thrived with limited experience. 

Now the play style and skill set are the best match for this comparison in my opinion. Montana was sneaky athletic and maneuvered around the rush always looking for the play down the field. He had some gunslinger in him in his prime and especially his early years in the NFL. He had an above average arm, but not the strongest one either. He anticipated his receiver to be open and often "threw them open". Sam has an extremely similar physical makeup to skillset as described above. The size, arm strength, always looking for the play downfield and anticipation throws are easy to see as a natural comparison for Montana. 

Now the huge caveat to all this is Montana had a savant for a teacher in Bill Walsh. Probably the best of the best for offensive minds, but Montana had greatness inside him already clearly. Walsh got that greatness out of him. Can Bates do the same for Sam? Bates doesn't have to be Bill Walsh for Sam to be great, but if he can connect and they can create that same type of bond and connection, maybe Sam can reach some of the same heights Montana did. Montana also had immense talents surrounding him as we all know. Rice, Craig, Clarke, Taylor. His supporting cast was exceptional, the Jets will have to surround him with great playmakers like all great QB's have. He will turn 21 in a couple months, so they have the time to do this. Having the "it guy" as your QB in the building though, is the hardest part and hopefully for the Jets and all us fans Sam Darnold is it.

 

[Joe the Breadman]

I see where you are coming from but Mac has a real issue drafting offensive talent. For Darnold to shine the Jets will need a total facelift on Offense.

Don't know if Mac is the right guy to make those kind of changes within the team. He  seemingly holds most things offense in low regard. But he sure loves the defensive backfield.

[thebuzzardman]

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[TuscanyTile2]

Just now, thebuzzardman said:

.

 

 

This

[thebuzzardman]

Just now, TuscanyTile2 said:

This

Ha. I had to edit out my response because Walsh was mentioned in the original post. 

[TuscanyTile2]

10 minutes ago, Joe the Breadman said:

I see where you are coming from but Mac has a real issue drafting offensive talent. For Darnold to shine the Jets will need a total facelift on Offense.

Don't know if Mac is the right guy to make those kind of changes within the team. He  seemingly holds most things offense in low regard. But he sure loves the defensive backfield.

I think it's much easier to draft offensive talent when that's what your team is shooting for.  Macc has been trying to plug leaks in the defense since he got here.  I might be mixing the years up but:

-He overspent in FA for DBs in his first year. 

-He used our top 2 picks in the draft on safeties last year. 

-2 years ago he had to fix the LBs in the draft

-This year he had to replenish the D-line.

 

Getting an edge rusher and an LT are going to require some luck (having a high draft pick in the right year) but getting a good WR or RB feels like it's a lot easier.

[TuscanyTile2]

Btw OP - I love the Montana comparison but it's too high of a ceiling to ask of any rookie.

[jetstream23]

16 minutes ago, Joe the Breadman said:

I see where you are coming from but Mac has a real issue drafting offensive talent. For Darnold to shine the Jets will need a total facelift on Offense.

Don't know if Mac is the right guy to make those kind of changes within the team. He  seemingly holds most things offense in low regard. But he sure loves the defensive backfield.

This.  And, the offensive overhaul and additions should have started the second Darnold was drafted.  Just look at Arizona....traded up to get Rosen as their hopeful franchise guy and then immediately began adding offensive players around him.  AND...their new head coach is a former defensive coordinator. 

[T0mShane]

Regarding Sam Darnold, He was an old man who fished alone in a skiff in the Gulf Stream and he had gone eighty-four days now without taking a fish. In the first forty days a boy had been with him. But after forty days without a fish the boy's parents had told him that the old man was now definitely and finally salao, which is the worst form of unlucky, and the boy had gone at their orders in another boat which caught three good fish the first week. It made the boy sad to see the old man come in each day with his skiff empty and he always went down to help him carry either the coiled lines or the gaff and harpoon and the sail that was furled around the mast. The sail was patched with flour sacks and, furled, it looked like the flag of permanent defeat.

The old man was thin and gaunt with deep wrinkles in the back of his neck. The brown blotches of the benevolent skin cancer the sun brings from its reflection on the tropic sea were on his cheeks. The blotches ran well down the sides of his face and his hands had the deep-creased scars from handling heavy fish on the cords. But none of these scars were fresh. They were as old as erosions in a fishless desert.

Everything about him was old except his eyes and they were the same color as the sea and were cheerful and undefeated.

"Santiago," the boy said to him as they climbed the bank from where the skiff was hauled up. "I could go with you again. We've made some money."

The old man had taught the boy to fish and the boy loved him.

"No," the old man said. "You're with a lucky boat. Stay with them."

"But remember how you went eighty-seven days without fish and then we caught big ones every day for three weeks."

"I remember," the old man said. "I know you did not leave me because you doubted."

"It was papa made me leave. I am a boy and I must obey him."

"I know," the old man said. "It is quite normal."

"He hasn't much faith."

"No," the old man said. "But we have. Haven't we?"

"Yes," the boy said. "Can I offer you a beer on the Terrace and then we'll take the stuff home."

"Why not?" the old man said. "Between fishermen."

They sat on the Terrace and many of the fishermen made fun of the old man and he was not angry. Others, of the older fishermen, looked at him and were sad. But they did not show it and they spoke politely about the current and the depths they had drifted their lines at and the steady good weather and of what they had seen. The successful fishermen of that day were already in and had butchered their marlin out and carried them laid full length across two planks, with two men staggering at the end of each plank, to the fish house where they waited for the ice truck to carry them to the market in Havana. Those who had caught sharks had taken them to the shark factory on the other side of the cove where they were hoisted on a block and tackle, their livers removed, their fins cut off and their hides skinned out and their flesh cut into strips for salting.

When the wind was in the east a smell came across the harbour from the shark factory; but today there was only the faint edge of the odour because the wind had backed into the north and then dropped off and it was pleasant and sunny on the Terrace.

"Santiago," the boy said.

"Yes," the old man said. He was holding his glass and thinking of many years ago.

"Can I go out to get sardines for you for tomorrow?"

"No. Go and play baseball. I can still row and Rogelio will throw the net."

"I would like to go. If I cannot fish with you, I would like to serve in some way."

"You bought me a beer," the old man said. "You are already a man."

"How old was I when you first took me in a boat?"

"Five and you nearly were killed when I brought the fish in too green and he nearly tore the boat to pieces. Can you remember?"

"I can remember the tail slapping and banging and the thwart breaking and the noise of the clubbing. I can remember you throwing me into the bow where the wet coiled lines were and feeling the whole boat shiver and the noise of you clubbing him like chopping a tree down and the sweet blood smell all over me."

 

Philip Rivers. 

[zonajetfan]

10 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Btw OP - I love the Montana comparison but it's too high of a ceiling to ask of any rookie.

Again, I'm not expecting the same things that Montana accomplished. That is asking far too much, I just see Montana as a comparison for Darnold. The rest is up to the coaching, FO and Darnold himself.

[zonajetfan]

10 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

This.  And, the offensive overhaul and additions should have started the second Darnold was drafted.  Just look at Arizona....traded up to get Rosen as their hopeful franchise guy and then immediately began adding offensive players around him.  AND...their new head coach is a former defensive coordinator. 

Agreed, the Jets must surround Darnold with the talent to succeed. I personally believe the receiving corp is better than most people believe, but the TE position is a must for any young QB and protection is paramount. Let us all hope the FO starts to act this way also.

[dbatesman]

I’d say a combo of Montana and Brady, but also Favre, with a little Elway thrown in. Only better

[kdels62]

53 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Regarding Sam Darnold, He was an old man who fished alone in a skiff in the Gulf Stream and he had gone eighty-four days now without taking a fish. In the first forty days a boy had been with him. But after forty days without a fish the boy's parents had told him that the old man was now definitely and finally salao, which is the worst form of unlucky, and the boy had gone at their orders in another boat which caught three good fish the first week. It made the boy sad to see the old man come in each day with his skiff empty and he always went down to help him carry either the coiled lines or the gaff and harpoon and the sail that was furled around the mast. The sail was patched with flour sacks and, furled, it looked like the flag of permanent defeat.

The old man was thin and gaunt with deep wrinkles in the back of his neck. The brown blotches of the benevolent skin cancer the sun brings from its reflection on the tropic sea were on his cheeks. The blotches ran well down the sides of his face and his hands had the deep-creased scars from handling heavy fish on the cords. But none of these scars were fresh. They were as old as erosions in a fishless desert.

Everything about him was old except his eyes and they were the same color as the sea and were cheerful and undefeated.

"Santiago," the boy said to him as they climbed the bank from where the skiff was hauled up. "I could go with you again. We've made some money."

The old man had taught the boy to fish and the boy loved him.

"No," the old man said. "You're with a lucky boat. Stay with them."

"But remember how you went eighty-seven days without fish and then we caught big ones every day for three weeks."

"I remember," the old man said. "I know you did not leave me because you doubted."

"It was papa made me leave. I am a boy and I must obey him."

"I know," the old man said. "It is quite normal."

"He hasn't much faith."

"No," the old man said. "But we have. Haven't we?"

"Yes," the boy said. "Can I offer you a beer on the Terrace and then we'll take the stuff home."

"Why not?" the old man said. "Between fishermen."

They sat on the Terrace and many of the fishermen made fun of the old man and he was not angry. Others, of the older fishermen, looked at him and were sad. But they did not show it and they spoke politely about the current and the depths they had drifted their lines at and the steady good weather and of what they had seen. The successful fishermen of that day were already in and had butchered their marlin out and carried them laid full length across two planks, with two men staggering at the end of each plank, to the fish house where they waited for the ice truck to carry them to the market in Havana. Those who had caught sharks had taken them to the shark factory on the other side of the cove where they were hoisted on a block and tackle, their livers removed, their fins cut off and their hides skinned out and their flesh cut into strips for salting.

When the wind was in the east a smell came across the harbour from the shark factory; but today there was only the faint edge of the odour because the wind had backed into the north and then dropped off and it was pleasant and sunny on the Terrace.

"Santiago," the boy said.

"Yes," the old man said. He was holding his glass and thinking of many years ago.

"Can I go out to get sardines for you for tomorrow?"

"No. Go and play baseball. I can still row and Rogelio will throw the net."

"I would like to go. If I cannot fish with you, I would like to serve in some way."

"You bought me a beer," the old man said. "You are already a man."

"How old was I when you first took me in a boat?"

"Five and you nearly were killed when I brought the fish in too green and he nearly tore the boat to pieces. Can you remember?"

"I can remember the tail slapping and banging and the thwart breaking and the noise of the clubbing. I can remember you throwing me into the bow where the wet coiled lines were and feeling the whole boat shiver and the noise of you clubbing him like chopping a tree down and the sweet blood smell all over me."

 

Philip Rivers. 

Yes 

[Larz]

Montana was a pure pocket passer 

Darnold is best extending plays and throwing on the run

Big ben

[Grandy]

Personally I think the best comp for him is Rivers, with a side of Romo, and Ben topped off with Rodgers.

[C Mart]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

This.  And, the offensive overhaul and additions should have started the second Darnold was drafted.  Just look at Arizona....traded up to get Rosen as their hopeful franchise guy and then immediately began adding offensive players around him.  AND...their new head coach is a former defensive coordinator. 

Last year the Jets drafted WRs in the 3rd & 4th round, TE in the 5th, RB in the 6th

This offseason they signed 2 C/OG w/starting experience. They resigned an OG, C & OT from last yrs team. They signed a RB that over his 4 yr career has avgd approx 750 yards and 25 catches a season and taking a flyer on another RB (Rawls) that over his 3 yr career has avgd 450 yards and 10 catches a season (altho he has been trending down). They signed a WR that 2 yrs ago had 75+ catches for 1000+ yrds

This weekend they drafted a TE in the 4th and in the 6th a change of pace RB, KR.  

[Larz]

1 minute ago, Grandy said:

Personally I think the best comp for him is Rivers, with a side of Romo, and Ben topped off with Rodgers.

I'll take it! 

[Drums]

He's the first Sam Darnold.

[New York Mick]

Joe ******* Montana for the next 15 years. Where do I sign?

[New York Mick]

16 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Personally I think the best comp for him is Rivers, with a side of Romo, and Ben topped off with Rodgers.

Hopefully not the crybaby Rivers part. 

[Grandy]

26 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Hopefully not the crybaby Rivers part. 

We're talking the trunky build with the odd-ball throwing motion.

[David Harris]

How many offensive starters has Mac drafted?

im counting one- Brandon Shell 

maybe you can give him Robby Anderson...kinda lucky as he was an udfa.  There’s not a clear starter at TE.

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, Larz said:

Montana was a pure pocket passer 

Darnold is best extending plays and throwing on the run

Big ben

Roethlisberger is one of the most unique players to ever play the game. He’s basically an offensive lineman with the brain of Steve Young and the arm of Troy Aikman. When young tykes ask me in twenty years who was the best quarterback of this era, I will tell them it’s Ben Roethlisberger and that Tom Brady was the Barry Bonds of football. No one is Roethlisberger. 

[CanadienJetsFan]

Montana is "creme de la creme", I'd settle for Steve Young.

[Larz]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Roethlisberger is one of the most unique players to ever play the game. He’s basically an offensive lineman with the brain of Steve Young and the arm of Troy Aikman. When young tykes ask me in twenty years who was the best quarterback of this era, I will tell them it’s Ben Roethlisberger and that Tom Brady was the Barry Bonds of football. No one is Roethlisberger. 

Big ben

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, Larz said:

Big ben

Larz: “Big Ben.”

Clown-faced speaker: “I’m sorry, sir. Do you mean Big Mac?”

Larz: “Big Ben.”

[dbatesman]

In all seriousness, Jameis Winston.

[Larz]

Just now, T0mShane said:

Larz: “Big Ben.”

Clown-faced speaker: “I’m sorry, sir. Do you mean Big Mac?”

Larz: “Big Ben.”

Tom : 

[HessStation]

4 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

In all seriousness, Jameis Winston.

Best one yet tbh.

[Larz]

4 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

In all seriousness, Jameis Winston.

That came up in a podcast I think maybe Dilfer said it. Pretty good comparison 

[ASH1962]

^

[zonajetfan]

2 hours ago, Larz said:

Montana was a pure pocket passer 

Darnold is best extending plays and throwing on the run

Big ben

Actually Montana was excellent at maneuvering within the pocket and throwing on the run, this is similar to Darnold in the way that he avoids the rush and looks for open receivers downfield.

[zonajetfan]

14 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

In all seriousness, Jameis Winston.

He has similar qualities to Jameis as well sure, I'm speaking more than just turnover prone and gunslinger mentality as stated in the OP.

[The Crusher]

3 hours ago, dbatesman said:

I’d say a combo of Montana and Brady, but also Favre, with a little Elway thrown in. Only better

I see Eli Manning, Frankenstein and the heat miser. 

[Bruce Harper]

He reminds me a bit of Luck.  Maybe a bit more improvisational and a little rougher, mechanics-wise.