Brandon Shell

[Sonny Werblin]

15 hours ago, sirlancemehlot said:

Should mac be allowed to stay because he drafted a mediocre lineman?  I fear our expectations have hit a new low. 

Basically if Mac manages to avoid jumping onto Chris Johnson's desk, dropping his pants, and pushing out a steaming hot pile of his previous evenings meal, he's good. 

[Sonny Werblin]

9 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

Shell isn't bad, but definitely overrated around these parts.  Ideally the Jets will get themselves an immediate upgrade at LT, in which case they could have let Shell and Beachum battle it out for the RT job.  If Shell's health is a concern at the start of next year, then that same solution with a new LT and Beachum at RT would be the ideal solution.

Ryan Kalil is a UFA and word is that he is a big supporter of Ron Rivera who might be fired. Perhaps he can be convinced to take a pile of cash to be Sam's C and to lead our rudderless O line? If that happens, I can envision a radical transformation of the O line from a weakness to a strength if the Jets also draft Jonah Williams to play LT, go with Shell and Beachum at RT, find a G in the 4th round of the draft or sign one in free agency and make Long and Winters compete with the new guy for the starting G positions.

Ryan Kalil would be the key though. The O line needs a leader -- a guy with some gravitas who can show them how to become dominant. Without a guy like Kalil (and I see no one other than him), it doesn't work. 

And if Rivera is fired, I'd add him to my short list of experienced NFL coaches. Basically, when Rivera gets solid QB play, his team wins. That works for me now that we actually have a QB.

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

Macc is safe barring some great HC coming in that wants his staff in place.

Bowles is gone and still fighting which is a good message to our young players to keep fighting no matter what.  it's taken almost 4 full years but I've finally been impressed w/ Bowles these last couple of weeks. 

McAdoo made the Eli move b/c he thought he was secure.  why would he think otherwise? he came off an 11 win season in year 1 w/o a QB and the team was injury ravaged year 2.  He knew it was time to move on from Eli and w/ the blessing of ownership sat Eli to make the move easier in the offseason to get rid of him.  Then whiny social media giant fans went nuts and the idiotic Giants listened to them so they now may have Eli in 2019 and 2020 which ensures they will continue to suck.

Lol no.. macadoo knew he was facing the ax, he lost the lockroom.. why giant owners just did him a favor and cut him loose few months early. You honestly don’t think his job was secure for this yr, but they just took the rare step of firing a HC mid season for the Eli thing ? Ha. You only fire a HC midsession when you are already made your mind while ago you dont want him back, and even then they usually don’t . Eli was bad last yr, macadoo thought maybe a mobile qb could do better then the statue Eli, behind that bad OL. Maybe he was right, but surely geno smith wasn’t the answer lol..

yes, it’s sad it took bowles literally having nothing to lose, not even his job to show some balls. Had he done such past few yrs, his job may be secure.. 

mac has to be wondering, yes if HCs dont want to come here knowing mac is on the hot seat, his job is def in jeopardy. Winning a few more games secures him.. Why I said he would risk injury to darnold.. 

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Lol no.. macadoo knew he was facing the ax, he lost the lockroom.. why giant owners just did him a favor and cut him loose few months early. You honestly don’t think his job was secure for this yr, but they just took the rare step of firing a HC mid season for the Eli thing ? Ha. You only fire a HC midsession when you are already made your mind while ago you dont want him back, and even then they usually don’t . Eli was bad last yr, macadoo thought maybe a mobile qb could do better then the statue Eli, behind that bad OL. Maybe he was right, but surely geno smith wasn’t the answer lol..

yes, it’s sad it took bowles literally having nothing to lose, not even his job to show some balls. Had he done such past few yrs, his job may be secure.. 

mac has to be wondering, yes if HCs dont want to come here knowing mac is on the hot seat, his job is def in jeopardy. Winning a few more games secures him.. Why I said he would risk injury to darnold.. 

It was all about social media.  Saint Eli could do no wrong.  McAdoo did a nice job with the Giants.  They had not been to the playoffs since 2011 and year 1 he led them there with a terrible QB.  Year 2 it fell apart due to Eli continuing to play poorly and a million injuries.

Obviously Geno was not the answer, he just wanted Eli's streak to end so it wouldn't hang over the Giants decision making process. He got the ok from management then when social media exploded management sided with the fans which is something good teams do not do.  In the past the Giants didn't listen to fans and the media, in recent years they have and it's why they suck and have no hope right now.

 

As for Darnold, you can't play scared.  If he's healthy he plays, he's still developing and every snap is important

[Jetsplayer21]

9 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

It was all about social media.  Saint Eli could do no wrong.  McAdoo did a nice job with the Giants.  They had not been to the playoffs since 2011 and year 1 he led them there with a terrible QB.  Year 2 it fell apart due to Eli continuing to play poorly and a million injuries.

Obviously Geno was not the answer, he just wanted Eli's streak to end so it wouldn't hang over the Giants decision making process. He got the ok from management then when social media exploded management sided with the fans which is something good teams do not do.  In the past the Giants didn't listen to fans and the media, in recent years they have and it's why they suck and have no hope right now.

 

As for Darnold, you can't play scared.  If he's healthy he plays, he's still developing and every snap is important

Macadoo knew he was gone after, the pope Eli and he grew apart, and having worst record in nfl is not tolerating at least on 1 side of Hudson.. not only Eli,  he threw many of his players under the bus to media, they called him back out.. he wasn’t coming back.. geno was laughable Hail Mary.. 

my point is desperate HCs, gms do desperate things. If bowles thinks winning out just may save his job, he would play darnold even if the whole starting OL was down and macs laughable reserves were getting him killed. We have no nick foles in case our guy gets hurt.. darnold I believed learned more on bench then sluggin it regressing with a bad O

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Macadoo knew he was gone after, the pope Eli and he grew apart, and having worst record in nfl is not tolerating at least on 1 side of Hudson.. not only Eli,  he threw many of his players under the bus to media, they called him back out.. he wasn’t coming back.. geno was laughable Hail Mary.. 

my point is desperate HCs, gms do desperate things. If bowles thinks winning out just may save his job, he would play darnold even if the whole starting OL was down and macs laughable reserves were getting him killed. We have no nick foles in case our guy gets hurt.. darnold I believed learned more on bench then sluggin it regressing with a bad O

I don't think Bowles would put Darnold's career in jeopardy.  

[Bleedin Green]

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Ryan Kalil is a UFA and word is that he is a big supporter of Ron Rivera who might be fired. Perhaps he can be convinced to take a pile of cash to be Sam's C and to lead our rudderless O line? If that happens, I can envision a radical transformation of the O line from a weakness to a strength if the Jets also draft Jonah Williams to play LT, go with Shell and Beachum at RT, find a G in the 4th round of the draft or sign one in free agency and make Long and Winters compete with the new guy for the starting G positions.

Ryan Kalil would be the key though. The O line needs a leader -- a guy with some gravitas who can show them how to become dominant. Without a guy like Kalil (and I see no one other than him), it doesn't work. 

And if Rivera is fired, I'd add him to my short list of experienced NFL coaches. Basically, when Rivera gets solid QB play, his team wins. That works for me now that we actually have a QB.

Kalil is a little long in the tooth (by NFL standards), so I think they would need to also start looking for a long-term option at C in the draft as well, but I would be totally on board with that move for the next few years.  Center is definitely a major need this offseason, and that would be a huge win.

[Sperm Edwards]

17 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

Shell isn't bad, but definitely overrated around these parts.  Ideally the Jets will get themselves an immediate upgrade at LT, in which case they could have let Shell and Beachum battle it out for the RT job.  If Shell's health is a concern at the start of next year, then that same solution with a new LT and Beachum at RT would be the ideal solution.

Isn't it strange how PFF is a site to be taken very seriously back in September, when they had Darron Lee rated highly (his YTD rankings were carried by his week 1 performance/stats while knowing the Detroit offense's plays), or throughout the season for Jamal Adams. Then there are entire thread(s) started to show off the prowess of these players based on a PFF ranking.

But when the same site has Brandon Shell as the #54 ranked tackle - not the 54th ranked OLman; the 54th tackle in a league that starts just 32 per week - then this lowly ranking is to be ignored, and the assessment is Shell is really either average or above average. 

So what is it -- are their rankings worthwhile or not? Because their assessment of the OL gathered in to protect a FQB are: Beachum (#50 T), Carpenter (#55 G), Long (#38 C), Winters (#26 G), Shell (#54 T). Essentially the only OLman they have ranked as worthy of keeping is the inherited one drafted by John Idzik rofl. 

[Creepy Lurker]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Isn't it strange how PFF is a site to be taken very seriously back in September, when they had Darron Lee rated highly (his YTD rankings were carried by his week 1 performance/stats while knowing the Detroit offense's plays), or throughout the season for Jamal Adams. Then there are entire thread(s) started to show off the prowess of these players based on a PFF ranking.

But when the same site has Brandon Shell as the #54 ranked tackle - not the 54th ranked OLman; the 54th tackle in a league that starts just 32 per week - then it's to be ignored, and the assessment is Shell is really either average or above average. 

So what is it -- are their rankings worthwhile or not? Because their assessment of the OL gathered in to protect a FQB are: Beachum (#50 T), Carpenter (#55 G), Long (#38 C), Winters (#26 G), Shell (#54 T). Essentially the only OLman they have ranked as worthy of keeping is the inherited one drafted by John Idzik rofl. 

Wow. That’s eye opening and terrible. Beachum/Long would be good depth due to flexibility and being able to backup all 5 spots on the line between the both of them. Shell won’t cost a roster spot early in the year so we will have extra flexibility and need to sign/draft as much o-line as possible.

Just gut the f*cking thing with a 2 year plan to replace every single starter and backup over that time. Only thing we’ll need on defense next year is a corner or 2 so we can really invest heavily in o-line/offense over next 2 offseasons. 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Creepy Lurker said:

Wow. That’s eye opening and terrible. Beachum/Long would be good depth due to flexibility and being able to backup all 5 spots on the line between the both of them. Shell won’t cost a roster spot early in the year so we will have extra flexibility and need to sign/draft as much o-line as possible.

Just gut the f*cking thing with a 2 year plan to replace every single starter and backup over that time. Only thing we’ll need on defense next year is a corner or 2 so we can really invest heavily in o-line/offense over next 2 offseasons. 

should come as no surprise, you should get what your investment is.

[Jetsfan80]

5 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Ok.. opinion. Don't see why we can’t give kid a chance.. I don’t think anyone thought 6th round pick  Tom Brady would amount to much until he was given a chance.

The moment Brady arrived in New England, he started impressing Belichick.  So much so that he passed Damon Huard and Michael Bishop on the depth chart in just his 2nd year in the league.

Davis Webb couldn't pass Geno Smith on the Giants depth chart, and was cut by the Giants.

Maybe the Giants got it wrong by doing so, but it's not at all the same situation as Brady's when he was a rookie/2nd year guy.

[Jetsplayer21]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The moment Brady arrived in New England, he started impressing Belichick.  So much so that he passed Damon Huard and Michael Bishop on the depth chart in just his 2nd year in the league.

Davis Webb couldn't pass Geno Smith on the Giants depth chart, and was cut by the Giants.

Maybe the Giants got it wrong by doing so, but it's not at all the same situation as Brady's when he was a rookie/2nd year guy.

Fair point. But we are only asking if Webb is worthy of the number 2.. so far he hasn’t Proved/earned shi!.. unless he plays a bit down the stretch and proves he could be number 2, don’t see how jets just award him that title going into next yr 

[Bleedin Green]

27 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Isn't it strange how PFF is a site to be taken very seriously back in September, when they had Darron Lee rated highly (his YTD rankings were carried by his week 1 performance/stats while knowing the Detroit offense's plays), or throughout the season for Jamal Adams. Then there are entire thread(s) started to show off the prowess of these players based on a PFF ranking.

But when the same site has Brandon Shell as the #54 ranked tackle - not the 54th ranked OLman; the 54th tackle in a league that starts just 32 per week - then it's to be ignored, and the assessment is Shell is really either average or above average. 

So what is it -- are their rankings worthwhile or not? Because their assessment of the OL gathered in to protect a FQB are: Beachum (#50 T), Carpenter (#55 G), Long (#38 C), Winters (#26 G), Shell (#54 T). Essentially the only OLman they have ranked as worthy of keeping is the inherited one drafted by John Idzik rofl. 

Yeah, I hadn't look at the PFF rankings particularly recently, but I did remember that they were far less positive about Shell than many around here.  He's certainly been quite unimpressive, but ultimately comes with a much lower level of expectation from many, given he's a low draft pick still on a rookie contract, so seems to get graded on a curve by many.  I'd be curious to see how PFF thinks of Long's ranking as a G, as although the sample size is a bit small at this point, he's certainly performed better there than at center (although that's not really saying all that much).

In truth, it would be great if the Jets could do a full replacement of the OL across the board, but that is rather unfeasible to do in one offseason, which is why I think letting Shell and Beachum fight it out for the RT spot is a more likely option that would still be a better situation in the short term (assuming of course LT is properly addressed in the process).

[Bleedin Green]

22 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Fair point. But we are only asking if Webb is worthy of the number 2.. so far he hasn’t Proved/earned shi!.. unless he plays a bit down the stretch and proves he could be number 2, don’t see how jets just award him that title going into next yr 

That's what training camp and preseason is for.  You don't worry about evaluating your backup at the expense of your rookie starter.  If you were talking about the potential switch from a long-established veteran starter, or the splitting of reps at another position where that might be appropriate (i.e., not QB), there might be a different argument.  However, benching a guy who still has plenty of growing to do, only in order to worry about a potential future backup for a coaching staff that isn't even here yet, is a bit far-fetched.

[Jetster]

Shame that Shell got injured last week. 

There is so much more to rating offensive line play, like, are you starting a rookie QB? how tough is the defense your playing? Is your RB talent lacking? Does your WR core get quick separation? 

I mean come on, our Oline has been asked to hold up with the worst 3rd down & distance in the entire league. There is no way there is another team that runs & 1st and 2nd down as much as the NY Jets. I even posted during the game thread, "is it illegal to throw on 1st down?". 

The line isn't great, I'm sure it's below average but there are teams up & down this league with Oline issues & injuries. Once you start having injuries it keeps getting worse. I don't think you need an all pros up & down the line, I think you need continuity, depth, the proper scheme & a QB that can 1-Get the ball out quickly or 2- move in the pocket to buy another second or two or 3- scramble & throw on the run and 4- Run for what he get & slide or run out of bounds. 

Sam has shown all of those qualities. Sign Trent Brown & Kalil, draft Jonah Williams & start him at RT, draft a Center/Guard with our high 3 and bring him along by pushing Winters & Long. 

That would be 3 additions, you'd still have Beachum & Shell for depth at both tackle spots, you'd have your 2nd third rounder for a WR, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, for BPA on OFFENSE. 

Plus you've only signed 2 offensive players so far for maybe 15/17 million. 100 million to go.

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

That's what training camp and preseason is for.  You don't worry about evaluating your backup at the expense of your rookie starter.  If you were talking about the potential switch from a long-established veteran starter, or the splitting of reps at another position where that might be appropriate (i.e., not QB), there might be a different argument.  However, benching a guy who still has plenty of growing to do, only in order to worry about a potential future backup for a coaching staff that isn't even here yet, is a bit far-fetched.

Point is he grew more sitting watching for few weeks, then regressing after being rushed to start. I know fans are very impatient, and expect a rookie qb to play great out of get go. But it’s a marathon, not a sprint for darnold. Plus playing with a backup Caliber O, isn’t helping him.. we have taken for granted health of qbs, but take a look around the league.. If one more OL goes down, we can’t just let our franchise player get murdered behind worst OL in nfl. Just so Todd bowles can brag about five wins and use that as excuse why he should stay.. Darnold is not just here to entertain season ticket holders, we have to look to next yr already..

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

Yeah, I hadn't look at the PFF rankings particularly recently, but I did remember that they were far less positive about Shell than many around here.  He's certainly been quite unimpressive, but ultimately comes with a much lower level of expectation from many, given he's a low draft pick still on a rookie contract, so seems to get graded on a curve by many.  I'd be curious to see how PFF thinks of Long's ranking as a G, as although the sample size is a bit small at this point, he's certainly performed better there than at center (although that's not really saying all that much).

In truth, it would be great if the Jets could do a full replacement of the OL across the board, but that is rather unfeasible to do in one offseason, which is why I think letting Shell and Beachum fight it out for the RT spot is a more likely option that would still be a better situation in the short term (assuming of course LT is properly addressed in the process).

Shell gets graded on a curve and he doesn't. When you're finishing up your 3rd season no one wants to hear, "Well I only cost a 4th round draft pick." That excuse lasts as a rookie and maybe into year 2 if you barely played as a rookie. 

Could just be that he was good value for a 5th round draft pick, but still isn't a good enough starter for the team to ever stop looking for his replacement and isn't worth an extension unless it's for backup money. There are players like this. They can have a great game occasionally and even potentially stretch together a few good games in a row. That doesn't therefore mean better things are on the horizon.

Will he get even better? I dunno. I certainly wouldn't bet on it; not while we're breaking in a young QB.

[Bowles Movement]

Everybody is writing him off for next season but we still havent gotten a diagnosis from his knee MRI.   It could be a MCL strain that is better in 4 weeks

[HawkeyeJet]

Here's my opinion.

Most people sharing an opinion(myself included) on Shell likely don't have a real basis of opinion because A) No one watches the OL from around the NFL, B ) has any idea what they are looking at even if they do watch it.

[Bowles Movement]

11 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Here's my opinion.

Most people sharing an opinion(myself included) on Shell likely don't have a real basis of opinion because A) No one watches the OL from around the NFL, B ) has any idea what they are looking at even if they do watch it.

We know when his man beats him and gets a sack.  I havent seen that happen often this year.   As far as his run blocking I couldnt tell you

[BurnleyJet]

Shell is a total Jag, not a big loss. The whole line needs rebuilding.

[Thai Jet]

8 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Well bowles, and mac are in “ win now “ because five or 6 wins may save their jobs.. desperate HCs, gms shouldn’t be allowed to make decisions in wash seasons. Look how desperate macadoo was last yr, idiot was so desperate he thought geno fing smith could come in and save his job ??

LOL

[JetFreak89]

7 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Isn't it strange how PFF is a site to be taken very seriously back in September, when they had Darron Lee rated highly (his YTD rankings were carried by his week 1 performance/stats while knowing the Detroit offense's plays), or throughout the season for Jamal Adams. Then there are entire thread(s) started to show off the prowess of these players based on a PFF ranking.

But when the same site has Brandon Shell as the #54 ranked tackle - not the 54th ranked OLman; the 54th tackle in a league that starts just 32 per week - then this lowly ranking is to be ignored, and the assessment is Shell is really either average or above average. 

So what is it -- are their rankings worthwhile or not? Because their assessment of the OL gathered in to protect a FQB are: Beachum (#50 T), Carpenter (#55 G), Long (#38 C), Winters (#26 G), Shell (#54 T). Essentially the only OLman they have ranked as worthy of keeping is the inherited one drafted by John Idzik rofl. 

I'd have to assume that LT is included in their T ratings so would that not mean there are 64 starters every week? Not to say that 54th out of 64 is anything to be proud of...

 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

8 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Isn't it strange how PFF is a site to be taken very seriously back in September, when they had Darron Lee rated highly (his YTD rankings were carried by his week 1 performance/stats while knowing the Detroit offense's plays), or throughout the season for Jamal Adams. Then there are entire thread(s) started to show off the prowess of these players based on a PFF ranking.

But when the same site has Brandon Shell as the #54 ranked tackle - not the 54th ranked OLman; the 54th tackle in a league that starts just 32 per week - then this lowly ranking is to be ignored, and the assessment is Shell is really either average or above average. 

So what is it -- are their rankings worthwhile or not? Because their assessment of the OL gathered in to protect a FQB are: Beachum (#50 T), Carpenter (#55 G), Long (#38 C), Winters (#26 G), Shell (#54 T). Essentially the only OLman they have ranked as worthy of keeping is the inherited one drafted by John Idzik rofl. 

Right on!  You can't make this sh** up.  We know the truth. Talking heads and  "experts" will tell you how well the O-line played this week, amongst other self-serving "observations"  Just trust your lyin eyes.

[bostonmajet]

5 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

Shell is a total Jag, not a big loss. The whole line needs rebuilding.

Couldn't agree more; we only have to find 3-4 other OL, a pass rusher, and a couple of WRs. Let's just toss a JAG aside - we only want pro-bowlers on this team..

EDIT - I came off much harsher than I intended. People want to eject JAGs (just a guy) when this team has so many holes to fill - two other threads we are all for ejecting Cannon as the number 3/4 RB who plays well on ST is just so easily replaceable....

[UnitedWhofans]

Depending on the injury, the Jets will have 2 main holes on their OL.

C because Long seems to have settled in at LG and LT

The top C in FA is Ryan Kalil

[Barton]

Jets might have the worst tackle tandem in the NFL

[Sarge4Tide]

Shell officially to Injured Reserve

Veteran LB Emmanuel Lamur signed off waivers from Oakland

[jetstream23]

On 12/17/2018 at 6:06 AM, Sonny Werblin said:

Ryan Kalil is a UFA and word is that he is a big supporter of Ron Rivera who might be fired. Perhaps he can be convinced to take a pile of cash to be Sam's C and to lead our rudderless O line? If that happens, I can envision a radical transformation of the O line from a weakness to a strength if the Jets also draft Jonah Williams to play LT, go with Shell and Beachum at RT, find a G in the 4th round of the draft or sign one in free agency and make Long and Winters compete with the new guy for the starting G positions.

Ryan Kalil would be the key though. The O line needs a leader -- a guy with some gravitas who can show them how to become dominant. Without a guy like Kalil (and I see no one other than him), it doesn't work. 

And if Rivera is fired, I'd add him to my short list of experienced NFL coaches. Basically, when Rivera gets solid QB play, his team wins. That works for me now that we actually have a QB.

This is a good idea.  Somebody should make this happen!