Interesting PFF article on Bowles/Bucs

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

8 hours ago, Barkus said:

The joke is on the bucs. They don't know that the Bowles cover zero defense is literal. The secondary doesn't cover anybody, hello wide open wr all over the field!

When Blake Bortles is laughing at your Defense there should be some kind of league policy that forces the HC (if he’s a supposed D guru) and his DC to resign immediately following the game...it’s bad for the league as a whole.

Shame for Tampa fans this guy Bowles is inflicted on them.  Bowles only looks like he might know what he’s doing when 10 of his 11 starters are All Pro like in Arizona.  That’s not the case in Tampa.

[Integrity28]

I can hear the echoes of the “Bowles will coach up these DL studs” rhetoric...

[rammagen]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

Tampa Bay basically invented the modern NFL 4-3 Defense, and acquired and developed the players to play it.  They are going to throw it away for Bowles.

The 4-3 actually uses quicker, lighter players.  Don’t you think that is better in the Tampa Bay heat?

 

as opposed to slow fat people? I lived in South Florida for over 40 yrs grew up there played outside everyday. Once you adjust you adjust. These are athletes, I think the bigger difference is not the heat but the fact they need to work on changing their front 7 to suit this new style. It will buy Bowles a yrs or 2 extra as they swap pieces 

[rammagen]

22 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Somehow interesting isnt the word I would use to describe the Bucs but especially Bowles.

Apparently though someone like @rammagen would.  Guess he misses Todd

No I dont I just like the fact that you have no reply other to buttfumble facts, so I thought I would return the favor. How does ms cleo feel about the bucs got any feelings on that? 

[section314]

2 hours ago, sourceworx said:

LOL

Bowles is loyal to a fault. As a person that's a good trait to have. As a head coach it's a huge weakness.

Yes, but in a Catch 22 sort of way, that's why Bowles has his new job.

[section314]

The point I find interesting from this piece is that Bowles is switching the defense, and the GM went out and drafted White and the two press corners, and then signed Suh to upgrade the defense on all 3 levels.Whether or not it works, only time will tell. They had a concrete plan, and acted accordingly. Our ex GM never did.

[MaxAF]

With the addition of Bruce Arians and Todd Bowles, the Bucs are shaping up to be one of the most fascinating teams to watch in 2019. In fact, they are a sTaff favorite here at PFF:

The writer of this article obviously has not watched a Jet game in the last 3 years.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, rammagen said:

No I dont I just like the fact that you have no reply other to buttfumble facts, so I thought I would return the favor. How does ms cleo feel about the bucs got any feelings on that? 

LOL, so you decided all I do is buttfumble, which isnt even true and the response it to mindlessly add a buttfumble to a post that doesnt come close to requiring one.  Three straight posts?  That makes you what exactly?  That you got your panties so twisted off of a buttfumble that it sent you off says a lot

Then to pile on you add some pointless Ms Cleo reference into the equation?  OK
 

[joewilly12]

2 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

I wonder if Bowles will be wearing his cement shoes or if he will actually move on the sidelines ? Best bet is throw him up in the booth and leave him there, just remind him when the game is over.

Cement shoes and cement head 

[JoJoTownsell1]

8 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

And that is why PFF sucks.

 Smart people are annoying, right?

[JoJoTownsell1]

47 minutes ago, MaxAF said:

With the addition of Bruce Arians and Todd Bowles, the Bucs are shaping up to be one of the most fascinating teams to watch in 2019. In fact, they are a sTaff favorite here at PFF:

The writer of this article obviously has not watched a Jet game in the last 3 years.

Many high end Defensive/Offensive coordinators have failed as Head Coaches and returned to being very good Coordinators. The premise that Bowles couldn't win with the Jets and therefore he won't do well in Tampa is foolish. JIm Schwartz/Wade Phillips were busts as a Head Coach and returned to being a elite Defensive Coordinators.

With that said, Winston is a knucklehead, Ronald Jones appears to be a bust, and the defensive talent doesn't look very good. But if Arians can work his magic with Winston that team can score a TON of points with Evans/Howard/Godwin. 

[rammagen]

11 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

LOL, so you decided all I do is buttfumble, which isnt even true and the response it to mindlessly add a buttfumble to a post that doesnt come close to requiring one.  Three straight posts?  That makes you what exactly?  That you got your panties so twisted off of a buttfumble that it sent you off says a lot

Then to pile on you add some pointless Ms Cleo reference into the equation?  OK
 

if read the post you buttfumbled it will make sense, just go ahead and ignore me  I will do the same to you. In the other conversation you gave no valid facts I pointed that out and your response was buttfumble. No reply to points I made, you were wrong I pointed it out and rather admit it you buttfumble. I am just returning the favor for you

[bitonti]

When PFF says the Jets QBs are awesome or Jamal Adams is the best safety in football, everyone loves PFF

when they praise Bowles it's a sh*t-burger organization 

the truth BTW is in between 

but as for Bowles - he wasn't the problem with this team. Adam Gase isn't demonstrably any better. The difference is they spent 122 MIL more on players for Gase than they did for Bowles. These guys are both low end options and it wouldn't surprise me if Gase is making what Bowles made or even less. 

 

put it another way people were pissed Bowles didn't develop the offense etc but that's like being pissed your Kia Sorrento can't tow your houseboat to the lake 

[varjet]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

The point I find interesting from this piece is that Bowles is switching the defense, and the GM went out and drafted White and the two press corners, and then signed Suh to upgrade the defense on all 3 levels.Whether or not it works, only time will tell. They had a concrete plan, and acted accordingly. Our ex GM never did.

This is exactly right.  

Mac did a far worse job than most have realized.  He and Bowles together were completely inept.  There was no concept of scheme fit or team building. 

Gase basically called him out, and Mac was gone. 

[section314]

1 minute ago, varjet said:

This is exactly right.  

Mac did a far worse job than most have realized.  He and Bowles together were completely inept.  There was no concept of scheme fit or team building. 

Gase basically called him out, and Mac was gone. 

One other point, the entire world knew the Jets were going to move Darron Lee. The fact that there wasn't even a sniff anywhere of any Tampa interest kind of tells you whose pick he was. It sure as hell wasn't Todd's.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, rammagen said:

if read the post you buttfumbled it will make sense, just go ahead and ignore me  I will do the same to you. In the other conversation you gave no valid facts I pointed that out and your response was buttfumble. No reply to points I made, you were wrong I pointed it out and rather admit it you buttfumble. I am just returning the favor for you

Would that be the post that you claimed Gase only had success with Peyton?  That you penalized him because you said he never worked and developed a young QB, ignoring that he won with Tebow and Tannehill.  Or that losing your starting qb two of three seasons and being only 2 games under .500 is meaningless?

Every one is those points deserve to be buttfumbled.  Don't like it, too bad it's a public forum.   Got to love the logic where you think you were wrongly bfed so you respond by blindly bf my post.  Makes sense

 

 

[MaxAF]

3 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Many high end Defensive/Offensive coordinators have failed as Head Coaches and returned to being very good Coordinators. The premise that Bowles couldn't win with the Jets and therefore he won't do well in Tampa is foolish. JIm Schwartz/Wade Phillips were busts as a Head Coach and returned to being a elite Defensive Coordinators.

With that said, Winston is a knucklehead, Ronald Jones appears to be a bust, and the defensive talent doesn't look very good. But if Arians can work his magic with Winston that team can score a TON of points with Evans/Howard/Godwin. 

I get what you’re saying but man that Defense seemed so out of sync and got blown up so many times over and over I would think he could have made some adjustments to stop the blown coverages, open receivers over the middle, etc. Maybe if he focuses on just the Defense and gets back with Ariana he will get the MoJo back

[JoJoTownsell1]

3 minutes ago, MaxAF said:

I get what you’re saying but man that Defense seemed so out of sync and got blown up so many times over and over I would think he could have made some adjustments to stop the blown coverages, open receivers over the middle, etc. Maybe if he focuses on just the Defense and gets back with Ariana he will get the MoJo back

I think one of Bowles biggest failures was trusting Kacy Rodgers year after  year. I am not saying that Bowles would be my #1 rated DC in the league, just that some guys are better when they focus on one side of the ball. 

[Losmeister]

bowles leads a stunted d...sounds right

[56mehl56]

4 hours ago, bitonti said:

When PFF says the Jets QBs are awesome or Jamal Adams is the best safety in football, everyone loves PFF

when they praise Bowles it's a sh*t-burger organization 

the truth BTW is in between 

but as for Bowles - he wasn't the problem with this team. Adam Gase isn't demonstrably any better. The difference is they spent 122 MIL more on players for Gase than they did for Bowles. These guys are both low end options and it wouldn't surprise me if Gase is making what Bowles made or even less. 

 

put it another way people were pissed Bowles didn't develop the offense etc but that's like being pissed your Kia Sorrento can't tow your houseboat to the lake 

 - he wasn't THE problem but he had a major part in it. Every year other than taking Darnold all the top picks were on D. Bowles couldn't develop herpes in a Tijuana whorehouse. 

[bitonti]

4 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

  all the top picks were on D. Bowles couldn't develop herpes in a Tijuana whorehouse. 

when guys like Mauldin, Ardarius Stewart and Hackenberg are instantly out of the league it's hard to blame Bowles for not developing 

he was a convenient scapegoat and i'm sure we'll find a new one next offseason

that's not the same as building a program 

[#27TheDominator]

4 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

 Smart people are annoying, right?

No. Just math. 

[56mehl56]

13 minutes ago, bitonti said:

when guys like Mauldin, Ardarius Stewart and Hackenberg are instantly out of the league it's hard to blame Bowles for not developing 

he was a convenient scapegoat and i'm sure we'll find a new one next offseason

that's not the same as building a program 

Bowles had more than enough talent on D to enable that unit to be much much better than it was .  His schemes flat out sucked and seemed to use players out of position constantly. If Williams comes in and the same players struggle ( specifically I'm talikn about Leo and Tru ) then I'll eat crow. 

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

Bowles had more than enough talent on D to enable that unit to be much much better than it was .   

he started Frankie Luvu and Darryl Roberts at fs

and not by choice

it was half a defense 

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

he started Frankie Luvu and Darryl Roberts at fs

and not by choice

it was half a defense 

And he game planned like he had a pass rush that was producing 5+ sacks a game. He brought pressure and left his DB's ten yards down the filed. Smart QB's, hell even mediocre QBS's like Bortles picked them apart like it was taking candy from a baby - yet Bowles never adjusted . You can argue he didn't have the talent , I'll argue he never put his players in the best position to win, the classic demise of a coach who's to married to his schemes and not flexible enough to counter. 

[MaxAF]

4 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I think one of Bowles biggest failures was trusting Kacy Rodgers year after  year. I am not saying that Bowles would be my #1 rated DC in the league, just that some guys are better when they focus on one side of the ball. 

As much as I was totally frustrated with his coaching. It’s apparent that he was out of his league as a HC; I did like the guy as a person and hope he does well in his new job.

[Apache 51]

Bowles stood on the sideline looking like he was waiting for the suppository up his ass  start to work. See yah.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

7 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

 Smart people are annoying, right?

People who are just smart enough to sell dumb are the most annoying people there are.

[NoBowles]

7 hours ago, bitonti said:

When PFF says the Jets QBs are awesome or Jamal Adams is the best safety in football, everyone loves PFF

when they praise Bowles it's a sh*t-burger organization 

the truth BTW is in between 

but as for Bowles - he wasn't the problem with this team. Adam Gase isn't demonstrably any better. The difference is they spent 122 MIL more on players for Gase than they did for Bowles. These guys are both low end options and it wouldn't surprise me if Gase is making what Bowles made or even less. 

 

put it another way people were pissed Bowles didn't develop the offense etc but that's like being pissed your Kia Sorrento can't tow your houseboat to the lake 

Bowles had three ocs in 3 years, how on earth do you come off saying he isn’t the problem? We’re his hand chosen ocs the problem?? If not, why is he hiring and firing them at one per year clip? Come on bit, challenge yourself to be better

[RoadFan]

8 hours ago, bitonti said:

When PFF says the Jets QBs are awesome or Jamal Adams is the best safety in football, everyone loves PFF

when they praise Bowles it's a sh*t-burger organization 

the truth BTW is in between 

but as for Bowles - he wasn't the problem with this team. Adam Gase isn't demonstrably any better. The difference is they spent 122 MIL more on players for Gase than they did for Bowles. These guys are both low end options and it wouldn't surprise me if Gase is making what Bowles made or even less. 

 

put it another way people were pissed Bowles didn't develop the offense etc but that's like being pissed your Kia Sorrento can't tow your houseboat to the lake 

Some of what you say I agree with; like PFF is in between.

But I wholeheartedly disagree about Bowles and Gase.  Gase was 5-1 head to head vs Bowles.

After 4 years, I can only recall one game  that stands out where I felt Bowles outcoached the other guy on the sideline.  The opener at Detroit.  And that was Patricia's 1st as a HC.

On the other hand, I did watch Gase's Dolphins win a handful of games they weren't supposed to in his 3 years.  His teams were mediocre, but at least he mixes in a gadget every so often to level the playing field against stronger opponents. 

Gase was 2-4 against Belichick.   Blowes was 1-7.

Even by the way they speak, Gase is clearly much smarter.

Blowes' teams were boring and unwatchable.   If not for Sam last season, it would have been more of the same.  And it was when he was out with the foot injury.

[Bugg]

5 hours ago, bitonti said:

when guys like Mauldin, Ardarius Stewart and Hackenberg are instantly out of the league it's hard to blame Bowles for not developing 

he was a convenient scapegoat and i'm sure we'll find a new one next offseason

that's not the same as building a program 

All true. But you have to at least try to have a serious passing offense. Simply not winning anything expecting you can win 13-10 every week. By design under the current rules offenses are going to succeed a few times every game, and defenses are obviously going to fail. Bowles(and Rex Ryan and Herman Edwards; a trend, tell Woody Johnson how tough your defense will be and the job is yours!) were fixated on their defense, never got remotely interested in seeing that done. In the 2017 draft, this team with no offense to speak of was a clown car waiting to happen, taking 2 safeties at the top. 

[joewilly12]

2 hours ago, Apache 51 said:

Bowles stood on the sideline looking like he was waiting for the suppository up his ass  start to work. See yah.

4 years of that turd 4 years of my life I will never get back worse than Rich Kotite. 

[bitonti]

17 hours ago, NoBowles said:

Bowles had three ocs in 3 years, how on earth do you come off saying he isn’t the problem? We’re his hand chosen ocs the problem??  

Gase's offense was ranked 32nd last year worse than Bowles/ Jeremy Gates

the QB was the problem. Full stop. nothing Bowles did as a coach was as bad as what Mac did as a GM. 

this is coming off like I'm defending Bowles and think he's some sort of great coach. He was over his head as a HC but both he and Gase are low end options, and paid like it. 

If by some miracle the Jets had kept Bowles and signed all these players, the team would be similarly better (from 4-12 to 8-8 ish). They can get 3 or 4 games better just if Darnold takes the next step.  

put it another way the days when the coach can really change these outcomes are over. We are never going back to late 90's Parcells (which also had BB on the staff). The players change the game and decides who wins and loses. for as good as BB is as a coach if Jared Goff shows up to that game last year the Pats lose that SB 

the coach can only do so much it becomes about firing these guys and the HC gets the blame (part of the job) but it's the players not the coaches 

 

 

[NoBowles]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Gase's offense was ranked 32nd last year worse than Bowles/ Jeremy Gates

the QB was the problem. Full stop. nothing Bowles did as a coach was as bad as what Mac did as a GM. 

this is coming off like I'm defending Bowles and think he's some sort of great coach. He was over his head as a HC but both he and Gase are low end options, and paid like it. 

If by some miracle the Jets had kept Bowles and signed all these players, the team would be similarly better (from 4-12 to 8-8 ish). They can get 3 or 4 games better just if Darnold takes the next step.  

put it another way the days when the coach can really change these outcomes are over. We are never going back to late 90's Parcells (which also had BB on the staff). The players change the game and decides who wins and loses. for as good as BB is as a coach if Jared Goff shows up to that game last year the Pats lose that SB 

the coach can only do so much it becomes about firing these guys and the HC gets the blame (part of the job) but it's the players not the coaches 

 

 

There are literally countless examples of the contrary throughout the history of the NFL. And again, if its all the players, and the GM, riddle me this, why was Bowles getting rid of OC's every year? And riddle me one more, if you wouldn't mind, why are HC's paid about 3x what GM's are paid?

[bitonti]

22 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

There are literally countless examples of the contrary throughout the history of the NFL. And again, if its all the players, and the GM, riddle me this, why was Bowles getting rid of OC's every year? And riddle me one more, if you wouldn't mind, why are HC's paid about 3x what GM's are paid?

The history of the NFL is a long time and it includes the pre-salary cap era. 

Bowles was firing OC's because someone has to get fired at the end of every year it's a Jets tradition. I don't know if any of those were his decisions

 

that last line is flat out wrong. Mac and Bowles made similar, low end of the league money. like they both made 3 mil a year or so

It's possible for Mike McCarthy to make 3x a GM but that's not how the Jets have operated since the Parcells days. several HCs like Belly and Andy Reid do both jobs and it could be argued earn those high salaries.