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Chris & Woody's Butler

Thread for those of us giving Gase a clean slate.

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2 hours ago, Butterfield said:

I am willing to give him a clean slate, but that doesn’t equate to being a fanboy either.  

I didn’t particularly like the hire to begin with, and nothing has really changed since then.  So we will see.  

For whatever reason, this offseason has made me really disinterested in the jets and football in general.  Not at all excited for the season, like I usually am at this time.

 

This is about right. I will say one thing that has won me over with Gase is his personality. Not that this is a dating site or some sh*t, but he seems to be a lot more flexible in dealing with people than I previously thought. You see him talking to all these different players like L Bell, Robby, Sam and he kind of comes off light but also all about business. He tells Bell, “I want every play to have an answer, that’s what I’m going to spend all my time doing is making sure every play has an answer.” That’s communication skills we didn’t know about prior to him signing here. 

It’s his X’s And O’s, in game clock management and situational management that I’m looking forward to seeing. That’s whats going to say if he’s a better coach or not. Because I refuse to ignore the stats. His offenses were not good in Miami and they weren’t really good in Chicago either. I know that he had some injured QB’s but it is what it Is. I’m not letting that be the end all/be all or the primary excuse to why his offenses statistically ranked poorly. 

Waiting and seeing on Gase. Impressed so far though.

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12 minutes ago, JiF said:

What has he done to earn a clean slate?  NOTHING!!!!

He fired Macc.  That's a good start. 

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6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He fired Macc.  That's a good start. 

Technically, CJ did...but yeah, we dont know if it's actually a good thing or not.  Hope is fun though.  Especially as a Jets fan.

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1 hour ago, Peace Frog said:

I edited it.  Apologies.  

Thank you for your contribution maintaining the peace, Frog. 

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16 hours ago, The Walrus said:

I do think the man will be better for his stop in Miami. He seems to be sticking to the side he knows, not sure if he did that at the fins.

It's exactly what he did with the Fins and made pretty poor defensive coordinator choices. So..he went out and hired a guy whose defenses haven't ranked much better than Todd Bowles the last five years. 

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17 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

It's exactly what he did with the Fins and made pretty poor defensive coordinator choices. So..he went out and hired a guy whose defenses haven't ranked much better than Todd Bowles the last five years. 

I think Gregg Williams was pushed onto Gase by Chris Johnson and Mike Maccagnan. They wanted to make both coordinator hires for Rhule, which is why those negotiations fell apart. Williams will be a culture shift after four years of Bowles' laid back style, but I don't expect him to last here more than two seasons. 

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3 hours ago, JiF said:

Technically, CJ did...but yeah, we dont know if it's actually a good thing or not.  Hope is fun though.  Especially as a Jets fan. 

You seriously doubt whether firing Macc was a good thing?  Yikes. 

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14 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You seriously doubt whether firing Macc was a good thing?  Yikes. 

I have no idea and neither does anyone else.  Remember when Idzick was the "adult in the room" and then we hired Mac "a personal guy", I hope Joe Douglas is good at this job, we dont know that he will be better than Mac.  Hard to be worse but said the same think about Izdick.  Gase has sucked everywhere he's been other than with Peyton Manning so yeah, it's all hope that the he figures it out and Joe Douglas is good at something he's never done before. 

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I have no idea and neither does anyone else.  Remember when Idzick was the "adult in the room" and then we hired Mac "a personal guy", I hope Joe Douglas is good at this job, we dont know that he will be better than Mac.  Hard to be worse but said the same think about Izdick.  Gase has sucked everywhere he's been other than with Peyton Manning so yeah, it's all hope that the he figures it out and Joe Douglas is good at something he's never done before. 

 

Macc was proven, statistically, to be the worst GM at drafting (fewest players drafted that are still in the league). And it wasn’t even close. So yes, we do know he sucked badly and deserved to be fired.

 

Idzik sucked too. Douglas MIGHT suck. But Macc was quantifiable awful. So yes, we DO know he deserved to get fired.

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Macc was proven, statistically, to be the worst GM at drafting (fewest players drafted that are still in the league). And it wasn’t even close. So yes, we do know he sucked badly and deserved to be fired.

 

Idzik sucked too. Douglas MIGHT suck. But Macc was quantifiable awful. So yes, we DO know he deserved to get fired.

Never said he didnt deserve to be fired.  He absolutely did.  We just dont know that we've upgraded yet.  All we can do is hope Joe Douglas is better.  Hard to imagine being worse but again, this is the Jets we're talking about.   

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5 hours ago, Grandy said:

I don't believe that he'd do that.

Rosen was supposed to be the most pro ready QB prospect, but ended up with the worst season of all the rookie QB's. He is also a statue in the pocket and lacks throw on the run ability, and mobility. Which is what a QB needs for his system. Darnold would've actually been the perfect fit as he has an extremely similar skillset to his former pupil Mr. Pat Mahomes. 

Also Darnold as a prospect has a much higher ceiling than Rosen, and probably Murray too. Remember, Kingsbury took the OC job at USC to potentially coach Darnold back when it was 50/50 that he'd return to college or go pro. 

Two things you said I differ with, my friend. #1 is just my opinion, #2 Is a fact.

1. I think saying Darnold and Mahomes have similar skill sets is a bit of a stretch at this point. Darnold showed an ability to make plays outside the pocket, but I don’t think his mobility approaches that of Mahomes. I also think Darnold has an above average arm from what he showed last year, just not on the level of Mahomes.

The future looks bright for Darnold, but Mahomes is already an elite QB. There isn’t a player in the league I’d take over him. Again, that’s just my opinion.

2. Klingsbury didn’t take the USC OC job until after last season ended. He was only there a few weeks, then sought his release to pursue an NFL job. Sam had already finished his rookie year by then.

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24 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Two things you said I differ with, my friend. #1 is just my opinion, #2 Is a fact.

1. I think saying Darnold and Mahomes have similar skill sets is a bit of a stretch at this point. Darnold showed an ability to make plays outside the pocket, but I don’t think his mobility approaches that of Mahomes. I also think Darnold has an above average arm from what he showed last year, just not on the level of Mahomes.

The future looks bright for Darnold, but Mahomes is already an elite QB. There isn’t a player in the league I’d take over him. Again, that’s just my opinion.

2. Klingsbury didn’t take the USC OC job until after last season ended. He was only there a few weeks, then sought his release to pursue an NFL job. Sam had already finished his rookie year by then.

Okay woah I'm dumb 

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35 minutes ago, JiF said:

Never said he didnt deserve to be fired.  He absolutely did. 

That wasn't exactly clear....

 

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You seriously doubt whether firing Macc was a good thing?  Yikes. 

1 hour ago, JiF said:

I have no idea and neither does anyone else. 

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3 hours ago, slats said:

I think Gregg Williams was pushed onto Gase by Chris Johnson and Mike Maccagnan. They wanted to make both coordinator hires for Rhule, which is why those negotiations fell apart. Williams will be a culture shift after four years of Bowles' laid back style, but I don't expect him to last here more than two seasons. 

So he had Vance and Matt pushed on him too?

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20 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Okay woah I'm dumb 

No you’re not, lol.

Its like a full time job keeping up with the coaching carousel. The only reason I knew is because I’m a fan of Klingsbury and his offense.

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20 hours ago, Warfish said:

Does it make any difference in any way if fans "give Gase a clean slate" or not, whatever that means?

If we all say yes, will Gase be better?  If we don't, will he be worse?

I didn't like his hire, and still don't.  If he wins, I'll like it alot more.  If he loses, I won't.  Pretty much like every coach that came before him.

It doesn't matter what I think of him, it matters what he does for us.

I agree with this. Does anyone really think Adam Gase gives a sh*t about whether each and every fan is giving him a clean slate? I liked the hire and really don't know what to think about the new GM? I just want the guy, unlike every HC prior to him, to actually earn his paycheck. Take the Jets to their first SB before I die and I'll like him. If he becomes another Toilet, I'll hate him. Pretty simple.

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20 hours ago, Chris & Woody's Butler said:

Like many I was up in arms over the Gase hiring.  I hated it...everything about it.  But amazingly, I'm now a huge believer that this guy just might be nuts enough to exorcise all the demons we've had to deal with forever.

He got Macc bounced, which got us a front office the likes of which we've never had, and the more I watch and observe of this guy the more I like him.

So I figured I'd start a thread for others like me that have had a change of heart and are kinda all in and fired up about Gase.

Count me in.  Can't believe I"m saying it but I'm a believer!

i think the jury is still out on who forced mac out.  mac was already on thin ice.  and while the end really shouldn't justify the means it looks like the jets have improved their front office.  it's almost like the jets finally decided to have football guys running the team.  this is the first time at least since parcells and before him...?

as for gase, his win-loss record with the doltfins at least matches up with the top jet coaches since the teams inception.  and he the first coach in a very long time who came in with previous nfl hc experience.  assuming he's a bright guy and capable of learning then he should do better than before.

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27 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That wasn't exactly clear....

 

What wasnt clear?  Yes, he deserved to be fired.  No, it's not guaranteed to be a "good thing" because Douglas could be worse. 

We dont know if it's a good thing.  We hope it is.  While awful, things can get worse. 

See Rex to Bowles. 

Tannebaum to Izdick. 

Sanchez to Geno

See Jets entire franchise history and you'll see examples of it could be bad and get even worse. 

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Macc was proven, statistically, to be the worst GM at drafting (fewest players drafted that are still in the league). And it wasn’t even close. So yes, we do know he sucked badly and deserved to be fired.

 

Idzik sucked too. Douglas MIGHT suck. But Macc was quantifiable awful. So yes, we DO know he deserved to get fired.

You don't seriously believe if we win 9 or 10 games this year, it's because of the brilliant coaching of Gase, and not personal. Do you. If you do, then it was coaching, or lack of it, that played a part in our performance the last three years. Mac didn't pick bowles. Charlie Casserly and Ron Wolf did.

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2 hours ago, JiF said:

I have no idea and neither does anyone else.  Remember when Idzick was the "adult in the room" and then we hired Mac "a personal guy", I hope Joe Douglas is good at this job, we dont know that he will be better than Mac.  Hard to be worse but said the same think about Izdick.  Gase has sucked everywhere he's been other than with Peyton Manning so yeah, it's all hope that the he figures it out and Joe Douglas is good at something he's never done before. 

I feel you. This could be his Peter Principle position. But you gotta like his pedigree. I also, frankly, really like the fact that the Jets came at him with four years at like $8M, and he negotiated himself 6 for $18M. If he looks out for the team the way he looks out for himself, we could have ourselves a good one. 

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5 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

It's exactly what he did with the Fins and made pretty poor defensive coordinator choices. So..he went out and hired a guy whose defenses haven't ranked much better than Todd Bowles the last five years. 

To be clear though - Bowles defense outperformed Gase's offense in Miami.

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

To be clear though - Bowles defense outperformed Gase's offense in Miami.

If we’re really being clear, we should also note that Gase went 5-1 against Bowles over three years in Miami. 

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1 hour ago, slats said:

If we’re really being clear, we should also note that Gase went 5-1 against Bowles over three years in Miami. 

So you're saying he was 18-24 vs. guys who didn't suc like Bowles sucked? :-k

 

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10 hours ago, JiF said:

What has he done to earn a clean slate?  NOTHING!!!!

it's what he hasn't done.  He has not lost a game yet

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You don't seriously believe if we win 9 or 10 games this year, it's because of the brilliant coaching of Gase, and not personal. Do you. If you do, then it was coaching, or lack of it, that played a part in our performance the last three years. Mac didn't pick bowles. Charlie Casserly and Ron Wolf did.


If we win 9-10 games, it’ll be because of Sam Darnold.

This idea that Macc deserves all kinds of credit for throwing a bunch of money at a LB who can’t cover and a RB is ludicrous. 5 offseasons and we don’t have a pass rush or corners and we’ll need to replace nearly the entire offense (outside of Darnold) after the 2020 season. Great job!

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 


If we win 9-10 games, it’ll be because of Sam Darnold.

This idea that Macc deserves all kinds of credit for throwing a bunch of money at a LB who can’t cover and a RB is ludicrous. 5 offseasons and we don’t have a pass rush or corners and we’ll need to replace nearly the entire offense (outside of Darnold) after the 2020 season. Great job!

Crowder, Herndon, Anderson, Enunwa, and Bell. Good skill players. Bell was a steal at that price. Mosley is a 4 time pro bowler, who has a rep as a motivator and leader in the locker room. All were very good signings. As for the pass rush. If QW, is what everybody says he is, everybody will have an easier time getting pressure. Not even mentioning Polite. Corner is a question mark. Who will we need to replace????

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The way he is with the media should have you guys jumping for joy. Yeah, this is probably his last chance at being a legit NFL coach, and I hope he takes the bull by the horns. That said, his 'take no s**t' approach I find refreshing. The media sucks, guys. You know it and I know it. Sports, news, music, all clowns. If you choose to ignore this I really can't help you. 

 

Give him a chance. And by that I mean, in NY temperament, this year and up to week 8 of next year. We are way too reactionary, generally speaking. 

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I can give him a clean slate but it doesn't really matter.

The one who matters is Gase giving himself a clean slate here. If he learns from past mis-steps in his coaching career and becomes a more effective and well rounded coach then great for us. 

As far as I can tell he seems aware enough to do so.

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15 hours ago, JiF said:

Never said he didnt deserve to be fired.  He absolutely did.  We just dont know that we've upgraded yet.  All we can do is hope Joe Douglas is better.  Hard to imagine being worse but again, this is the Jets we're talking about.   

Well he was a O lineman in college so that's a positive..

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9 hours ago, genot said:

Crowder, Herndon, Anderson, Enunwa, and Bell. Good skill players. Bell was a steal at that price. Mosley is a 4 time pro bowler, who has a rep as a motivator and leader in the locker room. All were very good signings. As for the pass rush. If QW, is what everybody says he is, everybody will have an easier time getting pressure. Not even mentioning Polite. Corner is a question mark. Who will we need to replace????

Crowder and Bell will be gone after 2020.  And you didn't mention the OL.  We'll need to replace Beachum, Osemele, probably Winters, and may need an upgrade at Center.  IF Edoga works out, he might be the only current OL on the roster who is a starter on the line in 2021.

QW is being forced to play NT in his first season.  IF he is a pass rusher he'll be doing so at the 3-4 DE spot where we've had many difficulties over the years generating any pass rush.   Polite is a major question mark.  Trumaine Johnson is a press corner, not a # 1 corner.  The rest of our CB's suck. 

Macc put us in terrible shape for the future.  He deserves very little credit for throwing a bunch of money at our problems and still failing to address any of our biggest issues (OL, Pass Rush, Corner).  If he had done any semblance of solid drafting over his 5 offseasons here, we wouldn't have these problems. 

This idea that Macc got fired DESPITE a great offseason is infuriating.  He did NOT have a great offseason.  He continued to spend heavy resources at positions that simply don't matter.  Him finally taking a pass rusher in Polite and an OL in Edoga was simply a matter of too little, too late. 

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28 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Crowder and Bell will be gone after 2020.  And you didn't mention the OL.  We'll need to replace Beachum, Osemele, probably Winters, and may need an upgrade at Center.  IF Edoga works out, he might be the only current OL on the roster who is a starter on the line in 2021.

QW is being forced to play NT in his first season.  IF he is a pass rusher he'll be doing so at the 3-4 DE spot where we've had many difficulties over the years generating any pass rush.   Polite is a major question mark.  Trumaine Johnson is a press corner, not a # 1 corner.  The rest of our CB's suck. 

Macc put us in terrible shape for the future.  He deserves very little credit for throwing a bunch of money at our problems and still failing to address any of our biggest issues (OL, Pass Rush, Corner).  If he had done any semblance of solid drafting over his 5 offseasons here, we wouldn't have these problems. 

This idea that Macc got fired DESPITE a great offseason is infuriating.  He did NOT have a great offseason.  He continued to spend heavy resources at positions that simply don't matter.  Him finally taking a pass rusher in Polite and an OL in Edoga was simply a matter of too little, too late. 

Bell is 27. Crowder isn't making big bucks. Why will they be gone.Beachum's replacement will be found in the draft. Strong draft for WR, and Tackles. Leo and QW, will play inside when in a 4-3. If Shepard can take a step up, maybe he'll be inside with QW, and Leo will be at end. You worry too much. Polite could turn out too be the steal of the draft. at least on passing downs he can contribute. It is possible that his tape at Florida, is something he can bring to the NFL. Sometimes the draft doesn't go the way you want it, and you can't do what is planned. Sometimes the draft is weak in positions of need. We're lucky. Next year, we'll have the chance to draft a stud LT, and #WR. If Polite works out, one shutdown corner away from a dominant defense. Don't count out Trumaine Johnson. Kacy Rodgers didn't use him the way he was used by every other DC, since he's been in the NFL. You mentioned in your last post about Darnold. If we win it will be because of him. Hopefully he'll be here for 10 yrs.

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Just now, genot said:

Bell is 27. Crowder isn't making big bucks. Why will they be gone.Beachum's replacement will be found in the draft. Strong draft for WR, and Tackles. Leo and QW, will play inside when in a 4-3. If Shepard can take a step up, maybe he'll be inside with QW, and Leo will be at end. You worry too much. Polite could turn out too be the steal of the draft. at least on passing downs he can contribute. It is possible that his tape at Florida, is something he can bring to the NFL. Sometimes the draft doesn't go the way you want it, and you can't do what is planned. Sometimes the draft is weak in positions of need. We're lucky. Next year, we'll have the chance to draft a stud LT, and #WR. If Polite works out, one shutdown corner away from a dominant defense. Don't count out Trumaine Johnson. Kacy Rodgers didn't use him the way he was used by every other DC, since he's been in the NFL. You mentioned in your last post about Darnold. If we win it will be because of him. Hopefully he'll be here for 10 yrs.

 

  • Bell's contract is set up where he'll be wanting a new deal after 2020.  He'll be gone. 
  • Crowder is a FA after 2020. 
  • Beachum replacement:  Easier said than done.  If we do indeed win 9+ games this year, we might not be able to find a franchise LT without trading up.  We should have drafted a LT with one of our early picks the last 5 years. 
  • Who plays DE in the 4-3 looks?
  • If Polite doesn't work out, we have no pass rusher.  Heaping a lot on the 3rd rounder who dropped because of some sketchy reasons, like lack of athleticism and poor decisions-making.
  • Stud LT AND WR?  Interesting.  How will we do that, exactly?  Is the draft THAT deep at LT and WR that a mid-late 1st and 2nd will cover us there?
  • "One shutdown corner away".  And where will we find that?  Those don't tend to be allowed to walk in Free Agency. 
  • I think Trumaine plays well this year under Williams.  But he's not a # 1 corner, and he needs a pass rush to be effective. 
  • Darnold is the one and only thing that makes this roster look like anything special or exciting.  We're agreed that we go as far as he takes us.  But stop acting like Macc did a good job of building around him.  He didn't. 

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36 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

  • Bell's contract is set up where he'll be wanting a new deal after 2020.  He'll be gone. 
  • Crowder is a FA after 2020. 
  • Beachum replacement:  Easier said than done.  If we do indeed win 9+ games this year, we might not be able to find a franchise LT without trading up.  We should have drafted a LT with one of our early picks the last 5 years. 
  • Who plays DE in the 4-3 looks?
  • If Polite doesn't work out, we have no pass rusher.  Heaping a lot on the 3rd rounder who dropped because of some sketchy reasons, like lack of athleticism and poor decisions-making.
  • Stud LT AND WR?  Interesting.  How will we do that, exactly?  Is the draft THAT deep at LT and WR that a mid-late 1st and 2nd will cover us there?
  • "One shutdown corner away".  And where will we find that?  Those don't tend to be allowed to walk in Free Agency. 
  • I think Trumaine plays well this year under Williams.  But he's not a # 1 corner, and he needs a pass rush to be effective. 
  • Darnold is the one and only thing that makes this roster look like anything special or exciting.  We're agreed that we go as far as he takes us.  But stop acting like Macc did a good job of building around him.  He didn't. 

You would depress everyone at a playboy mansion party. everything is a worst case scenario. We'll try and resign Bell and Crowder. If not, they'll be replaced. The one player you didn't mention was Robby. Im concerned about losing him. He would be alot harder to replace than a Crowder, or even Bell. Next years draft is loaded at WR. DE in a 4-3. Leo, Jenkins, Polite, Copeland. They'll experiment. Every team has holes in our division. If we went on every fan forum in the league. We'd here about what they're team is lacking in order to compete. Don't take my first sentence too seriously. Pretty much just ribbin you791969096_OscarMadison.jpg.f2ba7094652b3d39aec9567817c65ffd.jpg

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