SOJF Slur - Kettle ......

[SAR I]

29 minutes ago, CTM said:

the Sartoon is rebranding his SOJFdom into something less offensive. Old trick

The fact that you can't name 5 things you didn't like about the 6-2 finish and still choose to be an ignorant SOJF really sums things up nicely.  Certain partisans act the same way.  Whine about things, can't actually articulate why.  "I just don't like him" isn't an intelligent platform.

Last chance.  The 5 Things CTM Didn't Like About The Jets 6-2 Finish:

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

SAR I

[SAR I]

16 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Steelers had basically 3 coaches in that same period. 

Yet the SOJF's here in the Slur-Kettle wanted Adam Gase removed after 4 games.

Think about that.

SAR I

[CTM]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

The fact that you can't name 5 things you didn't like about the 6-2 finish and still choose to be an ignorant SOJF really sums things up nicely.  Certain partisans act the same way.  Whine about things, can't actually articulate why.  "I just don't like him" isn't an intelligent platform.

Last chance.  The 5 Things CTM Didn't Like About The Jets 6-2 Finish:

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

SAR I

I don't want Gase fired Sartoon

[Maxman]

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, CTM said:

I don't want Gase fired Sartoon

Cool. Then tell us the 5 things you liked about the 6-2 finish. Let’s be fans, not enemies. 

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

SAR I

[joewilly12]

 

[CTM]

10 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Cool. Then tell us the 5 things you liked about the 6-2 finish. Let’s be fans, not enemies. 

1. Sartoon rebranding from SOJF to ORJF

2.

3.

4.

5.

SAR I

.

[Eaton Beaver]

8 hours ago, SAR I said:

It's not BS!  See!  I saw the 2011 disaster years before.......and now I'm seeing the 2022 success years before.  Objective Realists are like that-  every season is different but one can read the tea leaves from one to another.

It's not BS or flip-flopping.  It's embracing what one sees with ones eyes.  Join me on the happy train.  It has a choo-choo whistle and everything, even a dining car with ice cream.  Don't jump on every year.  But 2020?  Let's go!

SAR I

WTF?  You make some good points, but, Happy train with choo choo whistles and ice cream. Let me know what you are drinking or smoking,,,,,ALL ABOARD!!!!!

[jgb]

The most SOJF argument I've seen on this board ironically comes from the Homers when they are defending the Jets.

It goes something like this:

NON-HOMER: Jets should've taken Mahomes

HOMER: Even if we took Mahomes [or one of the other 5 Pro Bowl QBs passed on by Macc], he'd stink here.

With "defenders" like that, do the Jets really need enemies?

Now let's do a thought experiment. Say your kid and the kid down the block get arrested for vandalism. Which kid do you yell at? Are disappointed in? That's right. Your own. You don't care about that kid down the block. Homers are the softie wife telling you to stop being so hard on the kid when you're telling him you're disappointed.

[jgb]

15 hours ago, SAR I said:

It's a great time to be a Jets fan.  Don't let Mets Nation bring you down to their level.

Even Mets fans feel sorry for Jets fans.

[TNJet]

Fire Gase that is all.

[jgb]

9 hours ago, SAR I said:

The fact that you can't name 5 things you didn't like about the 6-2 finish and still choose to be an ignorant SOJF really sums things up nicely.  Certain partisans act the same way.  Whine about things, can't actually articulate why.  "I just don't like him" isn't an intelligent platform.

Last chance.  The 5 Things CTM Didn't Like About The Jets 6-2 Finish:

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

SAR I

We can like it but still question whether it is a harbinger of greatness. It’s not black and white.

9 hours ago, SAR I said:

Yet the SOJF's here in the Slur-Kettle wanted Adam Gase removed after 4 games.

Think about that.

SAR I

Sticking with HCs doesn’t make a team great. Hiring good HCs makes a team great.

[playtowinthegame]

19 hours ago, SAR I said:

I always picture a SOJF as a Mets, Islanders, and Knicks fan, doesn't know what winning looks like or feels like, the only way he can bond with his friends and his teams is to play the victim.  As a Ranger and Yankee fan, these concepts are foreign to me.  Both teams, FYI, declared they were rebuilding, were smart about it, and look at that-  both are years ahead of schedule.  With the Jets, I see the same thing happening.

It's a great time to be a Jets fan.  Don't let Mets Nation bring you down to their level.

SAR I

 

Don't drag the Mets into this. I bet you the majority of the grumpy SOJF are petulant and disgruntled Yankees fans angry they're not seeing any Championship parades anymore so they take it out on the Jets franchise. 

GO METS!

 

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

 

Don't drag the Mets into this. I bet you the majority of the grumpy SOJF are petulant and disgruntled Yankees fans angry they're not seeing any Championship parades anymore so they take it out on the Jets franchise. 

**** the Yankees!

GO METS!

 

Accurate.

While its pretty rare to find a Mets fan who is also a NY Giants fan (far more are either Jets fans or simply don't care about football), it's also highly common to find a Jets fan who is also a Yankees fan, purely based on the sheer number of Yankee fans there are.

Pinning SOJF on Mets fans is a weak move.  

[freestater]

I thought this was going to be about SF's TE. 

[SAR I]

4 hours ago, TNJet said:

Fire Gase that is all.

SOJF that is all.

SAR I

[CTM]

32 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Accurate.

While its pretty rare to find a Mets fan who is also a NY Giants fan (far more are either Jets fans or simply don't care about football), it's also highly common to find a Jets fan who is also a Yankees fan, purely based on the sheer number of Yankee fans there are.

Pinning SOJF on Mets fans is a weak move.  

As op said, it's projection.

Sartoon = Jets/Yankees fan

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, jgb said:

We can like it but still question whether it is a harbinger of greatness. It’s not black and white.

What I'm asking is what exactly during the 6-2 finish did you not like from a standpoint of being a harbinger of good things to come?  Because I saw a team that was 50% castoffs and unknowns play pretty disciplined and focused football and I saw a coaching staff working their asses off to make that happen.  I saw a beat up and downtrodden 1-7 team pick itself up off the canvas and win the second round in surprising fashion.  I saw a head coach not only not lose the team but galvanize them.  Them be good harbingers.

3 hours ago, jgb said:

Sticking with HCs doesn’t make a team great. Hiring good HCs makes a team great.

I'm sorry, but asking for a HC to be fired after 4 games with a 3rd string quarterback is ludicrous, just about the most SOJetsie thing we've ever seen and that's saying a lot.

Firing a good HC prematurely doesn't make a team great either.  NFL history is full of teams who got rid of a great head coach too soon.  Not saying Gase is great, but how do we know?  7-9 with that Maccagnan + Injuries roster is one hell of an accomplishment.  Sorry you SOJF's need a cuddly and lovable demeanor, if Adam Gase had a big mouth like Rex Ryan, pretty eyes like Herm Edwards, and pranced around the sidelines with a big rah-rah smile like Pete Carroll, you'd love him, you'd say he was so energetic and bold, so New York.  The lengths you people will go to to make yourselves miserable.

SAR I

[SAR I]

59 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

 

Don't drag the Mets into this. I bet you the majority of the grumpy SOJF are petulant and disgruntled Yankees fans angry they're not seeing any Championship parades anymore so they take it out on the Jets franchise. 

GO METS!

 

Incorrect.

We Yankees fans aren't so impatient and we know what it takes to build a winner.  We've had our fill of Championships-  in my lifetime alone I've seen 26 Playoff appearances, 11 American League championships, and 8 World Series championships.  Our Yankee experience makes us better Jets fans.  We aren't so hard-up for a NFL winner when we get a MLB one every year.  My Rangers are somewhat similar.  We had a 10 year run with 3 Conference Finals appearances, 1 Stanley Cup Finals appearance, and the victory in '94 is honestly enough, I don't need another.

Only Mets fans would hire an airplane and demand their brand new head coach be fired in Week 4 after a month of games with no quarterback, dumbest SOJF move in history.  Yankees fans were watching Aaron Judge and DJ LeMahieu dominate the ALDS at that time.

SAR I

[SAR I]

56 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Pinning SOJF on Mets fans is a weak move.  

Seriously?

Every Mets and Islanders fan I know is twitchy, they get rattled so easily, so sensitive, go from 0 to 60 in a blink of an eye, are bonded together by their futility and frustration, have ludicrous thoughts about what's wrong with their teams and how to fix them.

Sound familiar?  Hire any planes recently?

SAR I

[jgb]

23 minutes ago, SAR I said:

What I'm asking is what exactly during the 6-2 finish did you not like from a standpoint of being a harbinger of good things to come?  Because I saw a team that was 50% castoffs and unknowns play pretty disciplined and focused football and I saw a coaching staff working their asses off to make that happen.  I saw a beat up and downtrodden 1-7 team pick itself up off the canvas and win the second round in surprising fashion.  I saw a head coach not only not lose the team but galvanize them.  Them be good harbingers.

Two main reasons, for me:

1. The second-half schedule versus the first.

2. The Jets are one of the least-deep teams in the league due to Macc horribleness and will be disproportionately affected by inevitable injuries until it is corrected (not a quick fix).

Obviously a 6-2 finish is better than a worse finish. The problem is you conflate lack of overflowing optimism for "hating" or some desire to be miserable. As Jets fans we don't have to try very hard to achieve that, if that were our wish.

Honestly, the biggest hope for the future is JD. For once we hired a guy whose current employer fought hard to keep. The Eagles know and value his contributions. That's a good sign.

  

23 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I'm sorry, but asking for a HC to be fired after 4 games with a 3rd string quarterback is ludicrous, just about the most SOJetsie thing we've ever seen and that's saying a lot.

Firing a good HC prematurely doesn't make a team great either.  NFL history is full of teams who got rid of a great head coach too soon.  Not saying Gase is great, but how do we know?  7-9 with that Maccagnan + Injuries roster is one hell of an accomplishment.  Sorry you SOJF's need a cuddly and lovable demeanor, if Adam Gase had a big mouth like Rex Ryan, pretty eyes like Herm Edwards, and pranced around the sidelines with a big rah-rah smile like Pete Carroll, you'd love him, you'd say he was so energetic and bold, so New York.  The lengths you people will go to to make yourselves miserable.

SAR I

Again, you are putting everyone who disagrees with you into one box. It is not binary. Fans are distributed as a bell curve. For every fan "all in" on Gase despite his red flags like you there is one fan screaming for everyone to be fired after every loss. Both are rare, but both are loud and persistent so we think they are more numerous than they actually are. Most fans are in the middle. Hopeful, but measured. 

I'll also note that those who wanted Gase to be fired "after 4 games" were not basing their opinion solely on those 4 games. He didn't hatch from an egg at 1:00PM ET on September 8, 2019. He has a coaching history, and it isn't very good. If we brought in Andy Reid this off season and he started next season 0-4, no one would be calling for his head. 

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, freestater said:

I thought this was going to be about SF's TE. 

LOL.  This is the Slur-Kettle.  A necessary right of passage in order to get onboard the Jets 2020 Happy Train.

SAR I

[ZachEY]

16 hours ago, SAR I said:

It's perfectly fine for someone to be down on the Jets when the Jets are in a down period. 

It's not fine for someone to be down on the Jets when the Jets are ascending and things are looking positive.  That is the very definition of SOJF.  Someone who can't accept success and actually enjoys the suffering, its part of their character, they wouldn't know how to function without it.

It's February 2020.  After the last two years, and the last eight games in particular, JN should be a SOJF-free zone.

SAR I

That they are ascending, and things are looking positive, is your narrative, based on a fairly limited examination of the circumstances.  Let's take a deeper dive, shall we?

You constantly speak about 6-2 to finish the season.  From a Mark Sanchez stan, this is certainly understandable, as one half is seen as justification for positive thinking about a whole.  Still, the football season is 16 games, and the Jets started their season 1-7, against the tougher portion of the schedule, and then finished 6-2 against the easier portion.  Let's look at that 6-2 with a little more critical eye:

11/10 - We beat the Daniel Jones led Giants.  A team that finished the season 4-12.  Will be picking 4th in the draft.

11/17 - We beat the Dwayne Haskins led Redskins.  A team that finished the season 3-13.  Will be picking 2nd in the draft.

11/24 - We beat the Raiders.  This is the signature win over this stretch.  Impressive win, no doubt.

12/1 - We lose to the Bengals.  This is our history making 2nd loss to a win-less team in a season.  Not only do we lose, but we are non-competitive in this game.

12/8 - We beat the Dolphins.  A team that finished the season at 5-11, with their first win coming against us.  We need a last second FG to do so.  Will be picking 5th in the draft.

12/12 - We lose to the Ravens.  We are not competitive in this game.  Expectations were low, and that's fine, but the fact is, we were not competitive.

12/22 - We beat the Devlin Hodges led Steelers.  Barely.

12/29 - We beat the Matt Barkley led Bills.  A team resting for the playoffs.  Barely.

So, one of the wins came against a team resting it starters for the playoffs, one came against a team starting the black and yellow Luke Falk, and three came against teams picking in the top 5 of the draft, and there's a loss in there against a team picking #1 in the draft.

So, while it IS in fact great to finish 6-2 after a disastrous, and injury plagued start, a little context to that record doesn't offer the narrative that "things are different now."  The narrative it does portray is that the team is good enough to beat the dregs of the league.  If not being content with that makes you a SOJF, then it speaks exactly to my point about what the name truly is.

Regarding the record, you've also credited Adam Gase as 'not losing the team.'  While I'm no fan of billboards or airplanes, I'm not sure, 'not losing the team' is the high water mark we ought to be looking for as Jets fans.  What if I also suggested that perhaps the performance towards the latter end of the season was because, with so many injuries, the majority of the young players and non-name players out there were still on their first contract or smaller contracts, and had something personal to play for?  That seems pretty plausible too.

You're also basing your position on the notion that Sam Darnold is a top QB (at least in the AFC).  This is nice to believe, but 'objective reality' is the stats.  The stats have Darnold as a bottom 5 NFL QB.  Do I think he's better than that?  Of course.  Do I think that the offensive line is holding him back?  Of course.  But, just how much that is is up to everyone's imagination, and nothing more.

And, if we are blaming the offensive line, there's no evidence that this will be fixed this year.  We can believe in Joe Douglas, but we have no evidence he can perform.  We can also take the very realistic position that an entire offensive line is too much a task to fix in one off-season.

So, more realistically, the Jets had a nice finish to the season, against the dregs of the league, and it doesn't mean all that much going forwards.  What matters is, can Darnold be better than his numbers indicate?  Can Joe Douglas fix/fill the gaping holes at OL, WR, CB, and OLB.  Next years schedule looks much more difficult.  I think you're in for a big surprise if you think the performance that got us 6-2 is going to be good enough when we travel to LA x2, KC, and Seattle, just to name a few.

[Jetworks]

8 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

That they are ascending, and things are looking positive, is your narrative, based on a fairly limited examination of the circumstances.  Let's take a deeper dive, shall we?

You constantly speak about 6-2 to finish the season.  From a Mark Sanchez stan, this is certainly understandable, as one half is seen as justification for positive thinking about a whole.  Still, the football season is 16 games, and the Jets started their season 1-7, against the tougher portion of the schedule, and then finished 6-2 against the easier portion.  Let's look at that 6-2 with a little more critical eye:

11/10 - We beat the Daniel Jones led Giants.  A team that finished the season 4-12.  Will be picking 4th in the draft.

11/17 - We beat the Dwayne Haskins led Redskins.  A team that finished the season 3-13.  Will be picking 2nd in the draft.

11/24 - We beat the Raiders.  This is the signature win over this stretch.  Impressive win, no doubt.

12/1 - We lose to the Bengals.  This is our history making 2nd loss to a win-less team in a season.  Not only do we lose, but we are non-competitive in this game.

12/8 - We beat the Dolphins.  A team that finished the season at 5-11, with their first win coming against us.  We need a last second FG to do so.  Will be picking 5th in the draft.

12/12 - We lose to the Ravens.  We are not competitive in this game.  Expectations were low, and that's fine, but the fact is, we were not competitive.

12/22 - We beat the Devlin Hodges led Steelers.  Barely.

12/29 - We beat the Matt Barkley led Bills.  A team resting for the playoffs.  Barely.

So, one of the wins came against a team resting it starters for the playoffs, one came against a team starting the black and yellow Luke Falk, and three came against teams picking in the top 5 of the draft, and there's a loss in there against a team picking #1 in the draft.

So, while it IS in fact great to finish 6-2 after a disastrous, and injury plagued start, a little context to that record doesn't offer the narrative that "things are different now."  The narrative it does portray is that the team is good enough to beat the dregs of the league.  If not being content with that makes you a SOJF, then it speaks exactly to my point about what the name truly is.

Regarding the record, you've also credited Adam Gase as 'not losing the team.'  While I'm no fan of billboards or airplanes, I'm not sure, 'not losing the team' is the high water mark we ought to be looking for as Jets fans.  What if I also suggested that perhaps the performance towards the latter end of the season was because, with so many injuries, the majority of the young players and non-name players out there were still on their first contract or smaller contracts, and had something personal to play for?  That seems pretty plausible too.

You're also basing your position on the notion that Sam Darnold is a top QB (at least in the AFC).  This is nice to believe, but 'objective reality' is the stats.  The stats have Darnold as a bottom 5 NFL QB.  Do I think he's better than that?  Of course.  Do I think that the offensive line is holding him back?  Of course.  But, just how much that is is up to everyone's imagination, and nothing more.

And, if we are blaming the offensive line, there's no evidence that this will be fixed this year.  We can believe in Joe Douglas, but we have no evidence he can perform.  We can also take the very realistic position that an entire offensive line is too much a task to fix in one off-season.

So, more realistically, the Jets had a nice finish to the season, against the dregs of the league, and it doesn't mean all that much going forwards.  What matters is, can Darnold be better than his numbers indicate?  Can Joe Douglas fix/fill the gaping holes at OL, WR, CB, and OLB.  Next years schedule looks much more difficult.  I think you're in for a big surprise if you think the performance that got us 6-2 is going to be good enough when we travel to LA x2, KC, and Seattle, just to name a few.

Really hard to argue with this well-thought out-post. That won't stop some of you, for course, but I just felt the need to point it out. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, Jetworks said:

Really hard to argue with this well-thought out-post. That won't stop some of you, for course, but I just felt the need to point it out. 

 

Yep.  And given the heavy roster turnover that's about to happen this offseason, that 6-2 finish will mean next to nothing in terms of how we'll do in 2020.  

And before anyone says "But what about Sam?  Doesn't that carry over a bit?"  No, it doesn't.  Geno Smith finished the 2013 season with 3 excellent games in his final 4 contests.  It didn't mean a damn thing in 2014 when we went 4-12. 

Either Sam can play or he can't.  Year 3 he runs out of excuses if he sucks.  

[Jet Nut]

36 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And before anyone says "But what about Sam?  Doesn't that carry over a bit?"  No, it doesn't.  Geno Smith finished the 2013 season with 3 excellent games in his final 4 contests.  It didn't mean a damn thing in 2014 when we went 4-12. 

 

Another example of why you have to look at more than just the numbers, have to look inside of them.  

And lets not compare, Geno was 3 games.  

As a rookie

Vs seeing development of a 2nd year QB.  Kind of apples and oranges here.

[CTM]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Another example of why you have to look at more than just the numbers, have to look inside of them.  

And lets not compare, Geno was 3 games.  

As a rookie

Vs seeing development of a 2nd year QB.  Kind of apples and oranges here.

FWIW the most advanced statistical model we have for qb play shows sam played worse in 2019 than 2018

[jgb]

53 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

That they are ascending, and things are looking positive, is your narrative, based on a fairly limited examination of the circumstances.  Let's take a deeper dive, shall we?

You constantly speak about 6-2 to finish the season.  From a Mark Sanchez stan, this is certainly understandable, as one half is seen as justification for positive thinking about a whole.  Still, the football season is 16 games, and the Jets started their season 1-7, against the tougher portion of the schedule, and then finished 6-2 against the easier portion.  Let's look at that 6-2 with a little more critical eye:

11/10 - We beat the Daniel Jones led Giants.  A team that finished the season 4-12.  Will be picking 4th in the draft.

11/17 - We beat the Dwayne Haskins led Redskins.  A team that finished the season 3-13.  Will be picking 2nd in the draft.

11/24 - We beat the Raiders.  This is the signature win over this stretch.  Impressive win, no doubt.

12/1 - We lose to the Bengals.  This is our history making 2nd loss to a win-less team in a season.  Not only do we lose, but we are non-competitive in this game.

12/8 - We beat the Dolphins.  A team that finished the season at 5-11, with their first win coming against us.  We need a last second FG to do so.  Will be picking 5th in the draft.

12/12 - We lose to the Ravens.  We are not competitive in this game.  Expectations were low, and that's fine, but the fact is, we were not competitive.

12/22 - We beat the Devlin Hodges led Steelers.  Barely.

12/29 - We beat the Matt Barkley led Bills.  A team resting for the playoffs.  Barely.

So, one of the wins came against a team resting it starters for the playoffs, one came against a team starting the black and yellow Luke Falk, and three came against teams picking in the top 5 of the draft, and there's a loss in there against a team picking #1 in the draft.

So, while it IS in fact great to finish 6-2 after a disastrous, and injury plagued start, a little context to that record doesn't offer the narrative that "things are different now."  The narrative it does portray is that the team is good enough to beat the dregs of the league.  If not being content with that makes you a SOJF, then it speaks exactly to my point about what the name truly is.

Regarding the record, you've also credited Adam Gase as 'not losing the team.'  While I'm no fan of billboards or airplanes, I'm not sure, 'not losing the team' is the high water mark we ought to be looking for as Jets fans.  What if I also suggested that perhaps the performance towards the latter end of the season was because, with so many injuries, the majority of the young players and non-name players out there were still on their first contract or smaller contracts, and had something personal to play for?  That seems pretty plausible too.

You're also basing your position on the notion that Sam Darnold is a top QB (at least in the AFC).  This is nice to believe, but 'objective reality' is the stats.  The stats have Darnold as a bottom 5 NFL QB.  Do I think he's better than that?  Of course.  Do I think that the offensive line is holding him back?  Of course.  But, just how much that is is up to everyone's imagination, and nothing more.

And, if we are blaming the offensive line, there's no evidence that this will be fixed this year.  We can believe in Joe Douglas, but we have no evidence he can perform.  We can also take the very realistic position that an entire offensive line is too much a task to fix in one off-season.

So, more realistically, the Jets had a nice finish to the season, against the dregs of the league, and it doesn't mean all that much going forwards.  What matters is, can Darnold be better than his numbers indicate?  Can Joe Douglas fix/fill the gaping holes at OL, WR, CB, and OLB.  Next years schedule looks much more difficult.  I think you're in for a big surprise if you think the performance that got us 6-2 is going to be good enough when we travel to LA x2, KC, and Seattle, just to name a few.

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, CTM said:

FWIW the most advanced statistical model we have for qb play shows sam played worse in 2019 than 2018

I hate statistical models 

Players in sports where their play is dependent on others, stats don't always tell the entire story.  And any story that involves a kid playing without help and mono is kind of misleading.

[Warfish]

15 hours ago, SAR I said:

The 5 Things Warfish Didn't Like About The Jets 6-2 Finish:

1. Too little, too late.  Garbage Time wins are not In-Contention wins.

2. Wins mostly against horrible teams (Buffalo being the only win vs. a 2019 winning team).  

3. Included a loss to an 0-11 team.

4. Went 6-2, still finished 32nd in Offense.  Sam now 2 for 2 in meaningful missed time seasons.  

5. For the second year running, a late "spurt" after we've been effectively eliminated has created a (potentially) false sense of how good players or the team are.

Teddy's post is also an EXCELLENT reference (and much better written) as to my concerns.

There was much I liked about the 6-2 finish as well, but these are my concerns.

[peebag]

20 hours ago, JustEndTheSuffering said:

I’m going to get made fun of for this but idc. I’ve been on this site for a little over a year and I still don’t know what SOJF means. I’ve seen it said so many times I’ve looked it up and I still have no idea so please somebody explain to me what I’m God’s name does SOJF stands for. 

America!

[Sperm Edwards]

22 hours ago, SAR I said:

I think you forget a third group:

1.  Blind Homers.  "Jets don't do anything wrong!"

2.  SOJF's "Whoa is me, Jets suck, I'm a victim!"

3.  Objective Realists.  "Hey, we sucked for awhile but I like what I'm seeing, we've turned the corner."

I'm on this site frequently and I don't know any #1's.  I see a handful of #3's.  And then I see an army of #2's looking to cry and whine and pick snarky fights with the #3's.  There are times when we've all got the right to be upset.  2016 is a good season for that.  Every other Pennington season '03-'05-'07 is like that.  Too many to mention.  But 2020?  This is a time to be joyful.  Things are looking very good.  Hating on Christopher Johnson and Adam Gase and Jamal Adams and PSL's, the 1-7 start, the sh-t's old already.  6-2 was real.  Darnold taking a step was real.  The D is real.  We are allowed to be optimistic.  You are allowed to be optimistic.  So do so.

SAR I

99% of Jets fans in #1 believe themselves to be part of #3, and ever has it been that way.

[playtowinthegame]

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

That they are ascending, and things are looking positive, is your narrative, based on a fairly limited examination of the circumstances.  Let's take a deeper dive, shall we?

You constantly speak about 6-2 to finish the season.  From a Mark Sanchez stan, this is certainly understandable, as one half is seen as justification for positive thinking about a whole.  Still, the football season is 16 games, and the Jets started their season 1-7, against the tougher portion of the schedule, and then finished 6-2 against the easier portion.  Let's look at 6-2 with a little more critical eye:

11/10 - We beat the Daniel Jones led Giants.  A team that finished the season 4-12.  Will be picking 4th in the draft.

11/17 - We beat the Dwayne Haskins led Redskins.  A team that finished the season 3-13.  Will be picking 2nd in the draft.

11/24 - We beat the Raiders.  This is the signature win over this stretch.  Impressive win, no doubt.

12/1 - We lose to the Bengals.  This is our history making 2nd loss to a win-less team in a season.  Not only do we lose, but we are non-competitive in this game.

12/8 - We beat the Dolphins.  A team that finished the season at 5-11, with their first win coming against us.  We need a last second FG to do so.  Will be picking 5th in the draft.

12/12 - We lose to the Ravens.  We are not competitive in this game.  Expectations were low, and that's fine, but the fact is, we were not competitive.

12/22 - We beat the Devlin Hodges led Steelers.  Barely.

12/29 - We beat the Matt Barkley led Bills.  A team resting for the playoffs.  Barely.

So, one of the wins came against a team resting it starters for the playoffs, one came against a team starting the black and yellow Luke Falk, and three came against teams picking in the top 5 of the draft, and there's a loss in there against a team picking #1 in the draft.

So, while it IS in fact great to finish 6-2 after a disastrous, and injury plagued start, a little context to that record doesn't offer the narrative that "things are different now."  The narrative it does portray is that the team is good enough to beat the dregs of the league.  If not being content with that makes you a SOJF, then it speaks exactly to my point about what the name truly is.

Regarding the record, you've also credited Adam Gase as 'not losing the team.'  While I'm no fan of billboards or airplanes, I'm not sure, 'not losing the team' is the high water mark we ought to be looking for as Jets fans.  What if I also suggested that perhaps the performance towards the latter end of the season was because, with so many injuries, the majority of the young players and non-name players out there were still on their first contract or smaller contracts, and had something personal to play for?  That seems pretty plausible too.

You're also basing your position on the notion that Sam Darnold is a top QB (at least in the AFC).  This is nice to believe, but 'objective reality' is the stats.  The stats have Darnold as a bottom 5 NFL QB.  Do I think he's better than that?  Of course.  Do I think that the offensive line is holding him back?  Of course.  But, just how much that is is up to everyone's imagination, and nothing more.

And, if we are blaming the offensive line, there's no evidence that this will be fixed this year.  We can believe in Joe Douglas, but we have no evidence he can perform.  We can also take the very realistic position that an entire offensive line is too much a task to fix in one off-season.

So, more realistically, the Jets had a nice finish to the season, against the dregs of the league, and it doesn't mean all that much going forwards.  What matters is, can Darnold be better than his numbers indicate?  Can Joe Douglas fix/fill the gaping holes at OL, WR, CB, and OLB.  Next years schedule looks much more difficult.  I think you're in for a big surprise if you think the performance that got us 6-2 is going to be good enough when we travel to LA x2, KC, and Seattle, just to name a few.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, TeddEY said:

That they are ascending, and things are looking positive, is your narrative, based on a fairly limited examination of the circumstances.  Let's take a deeper dive, shall we?

You constantly speak about 6-2 to finish the season.  From a Mark Sanchez stan, this is certainly understandable, as one half is seen as justification for positive thinking about a whole.  Still, the football season is 16 games, and the Jets started their season 1-7, against the tougher portion of the schedule, and then finished 6-2 against the easier portion.  Let's look at that 6-2 with a little more critical eye:

11/10 - We beat the Daniel Jones led Giants.  A team that finished the season 4-12.  Will be picking 4th in the draft.

11/17 - We beat the Dwayne Haskins led Redskins.  A team that finished the season 3-13.  Will be picking 2nd in the draft.

11/24 - We beat the Raiders.  This is the signature win over this stretch.  Impressive win, no doubt.

12/1 - We lose to the Bengals.  This is our history making 2nd loss to a win-less team in a season.  Not only do we lose, but we are non-competitive in this game.

12/8 - We beat the Dolphins.  A team that finished the season at 5-11, with their first win coming against us.  We need a last second FG to do so.  Will be picking 5th in the draft.

12/12 - We lose to the Ravens.  We are not competitive in this game.  Expectations were low, and that's fine, but the fact is, we were not competitive.

12/22 - We beat the Devlin Hodges led Steelers.  Barely.

12/29 - We beat the Matt Barkley led Bills.  A team resting for the playoffs.  Barely.

So, one of the wins came against a team resting it starters for the playoffs, one came against a team starting the black and yellow Luke Falk, and three came against teams picking in the top 5 of the draft, and there's a loss in there against a team picking #1 in the draft.

So, while it IS in fact great to finish 6-2 after a disastrous, and injury plagued start, a little context to that record doesn't offer the narrative that "things are different now."  The narrative it does portray is that the team is good enough to beat the dregs of the league.  If not being content with that makes you a SOJF, then it speaks exactly to my point about what the name truly is.

Regarding the record, you've also credited Adam Gase as 'not losing the team.'  While I'm no fan of billboards or airplanes, I'm not sure, 'not losing the team' is the high water mark we ought to be looking for as Jets fans.  What if I also suggested that perhaps the performance towards the latter end of the season was because, with so many injuries, the majority of the young players and non-name players out there were still on their first contract or smaller contracts, and had something personal to play for?  That seems pretty plausible too.

You're also basing your position on the notion that Sam Darnold is a top QB (at least in the AFC).  This is nice to believe, but 'objective reality' is the stats.  The stats have Darnold as a bottom 5 NFL QB.  Do I think he's better than that?  Of course.  Do I think that the offensive line is holding him back?  Of course.  But, just how much that is is up to everyone's imagination, and nothing more.

And, if we are blaming the offensive line, there's no evidence that this will be fixed this year.  We can believe in Joe Douglas, but we have no evidence he can perform.  We can also take the very realistic position that an entire offensive line is too much a task to fix in one off-season.

So, more realistically, the Jets had a nice finish to the season, against the dregs of the league, and it doesn't mean all that much going forwards.  What matters is, can Darnold be better than his numbers indicate?  Can Joe Douglas fix/fill the gaping holes at OL, WR, CB, and OLB.  Next years schedule looks much more difficult.  I think you're in for a big surprise if you think the performance that got us 6-2 is going to be good enough when we travel to LA x2, KC, and Seattle, just to name a few.

 

[Jet Nut]

Its not an 18-0 season, even an 8-0 ending, but 6-2 is 6-2 no matter how you try and twist it to fit your agenda.  The game by game breakdown is as pointless as thinking it was too little (?) too late.  They played better, Sam played better, their opponents are what they were.  Period.  

And lets not forget the last couple of years, this same schedule we never would have won 6 of 8.  It all means little other than to give some hope, nothing more.  But that's a start