KRL Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 With the rumors of Gase going to "wide line splits" I did some research on the benefits of it. Below are links to two articles focusing on Mike Leach and what he did at Texas Tech. The links give you the full breakdown, I included a couple of interesting points for those who don't want to read everything: http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2008/10/linemen-splits.html But there's a new trend for wide splits, and that's with air-it-out passing teams like Texas Tech. Traditionally passing teams took very narrow splits to stop inside penetration, Texas Tech takes exceptionally large splits. Their rationale is a few-fold: (a) make the pass rushers come from farther away and enlarge the pocket, (b) open up throwing lanes for the quarterback, and (c) because they throw so much, all they need is a block or two to have an effective draw play -- the defensive ends aren't even really a factor. They can do this because they are almost exclusively a "man" pass protection team, just as the old Lavell Edwards BYU offenses were. (Indeed, Mike Leach's offense is a direct descendent from BYU's offense, he spent time there as an assistant, and many of his other coaches had experience at BYU as players or coaches when Edwards and Norm Chow were there.) https://247sports.com/college/oklahoma/Board/86/Contents/Why-Leach-used-extra-wide-line-splits-39710703/ To me, the ultimate offenses in terms of distribution are what we do and the old school wishbone offense and both of them have wide splits with their lineman. We would do it for zone run lanes and pass blocking assignments because the edge guys are now wider from the QB than they would be. We start out at three feet. If we had no trouble in blocking them than we would widen, if we had trouble then we’d tighten them. Defenses would try to keep a guy in the middle of a gap and shoot that gap, if they did that we would keep it at three feet. We would just take deeper drop steps to get angles in our run game. No defenses ever had success in doing that [shooting gaps] against us because, again, it wasn’t something they would consistently do so they weren’t comfortable in doing it. They’re not good at just shooting gaps because they haven’t done it except for three practices in preparing to defend us. The interplay of the wide line splits with the run game was also interesting, however. The wide line splits made it impossible to use double-teams like traditional zone running teams did, and as a result it was more about each lineman blocking his man one-on-one. But, because the only time Leach wanted to run the ball is if the numbers in the box were extremely favorable, the wide line splits helped his linemen in their run blocking because they almost always had angles. If the defense tried to stretch out with his linemen, there were almost always running lanes inside; if they tried to pinch down and shoot the gaps, it was easy enough for his linemen to block down and seal the edge for his runners to scoot around edge. And while his teams weren’t known for their rushing prowess, they did have some success. In 2008, for example, Leach’s top two rushers combined for 1,475 yards on over 5.8 yards per carry. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 32EBoozer Posted March 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted March 4, 2020 Over/Under Bellichek figures out how to beat it in 5 plays. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nico002 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Interesting, it makes a little bit of sense with a mobile QB like Darnold. Though I don’t love any shceme they makes it harder to run the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32EBoozer Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, nico002 said: Interesting, it makes a little bit of sense with a mobile QB like Darnold. Though I don’t love any shceme they makes it harder to run the ball. But, because the only time Leach wanted to run the ball is if the numbers in the box were extremely favorable, the wide line splits helped his linemen in their run blocking because they almost always had angles. If the defense tried to stretch out with his linemen, there were almost always running lanes inside; if they tried to pinch down and shoot the gaps, it was easy enough for his linemen to block down and seal the edge for his runners to scoot around edge. And while his teams weren’t known for their rushing prowess, they did have some success. In 2008, for example, Leach’s top two rushers combined for 1,475 yards on over 5.8 yards per carry. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ This would be more conceivable if you had OL who are agile enough to block in open space. Our OLmen do not move well. Thanks MacDaddy! You need athletes on the line to make this effective. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sec101row23 Posted March 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted March 4, 2020 The problem you run into in the NFL with this philosophy is that the defensive fronts are much quicker, faster and stronger than college D-lines, thus they can exploit the “wide line splits” much easier. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxgreen Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Hated facing Leach's teams when they ran this stuff. Didn't matter how good the pass rush was they always found an opening. Then Cristobal just ran the ball right up the Coug's gut all game and didn't let the offense make any errors. Beat them by a field goal. Thankfully he took his Air Raid to Miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 immediate thoughts before going through the huge effort of clicking the links assume they talked about teams having difficulty changing strategies to shooting the gaps, because shooting gaps is the most effective defense to it ... makes sense at NFL level, i can't imagine defensive players won't be able to effectively attack it ... but perhaps less effectively than a traditional blocking scheme. --- Fact is our pass-blocking, as well as our run-blocking, s*cked *$$ last year ... so any change is good. Bell's play s*cked *$$ last year ... he's better in space than smash-mouth ... so this change would seem to be good for him --- I'd assume side to side lateral agility and arm length (for the push to keep the D at 3 feet) are more important for this style ... anyone have info on our existing players and where they graded out on this ... how does it compare to others/ the average of the top 5 or 10 or even 20 OT's in the draft, how do they measure out in these area's vs. the competition. --- Do we know if Gase or dwarf or O-line coach Derrick Frazier (only 1 year coaching experience listed on Jets homepage) or any of our Offense coaches have experience with it? thx for the read KRL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 sounds like they want to use darnold's strengths more. will be interesting to see the OL they sign and draft to execute this. could be a trade down to get someone like josh jones to max out on athleticisim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomebodytoAnybody47 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Where did you read Gase was doing that?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRL Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 My initial thoughts are: - We'll probably be looking for OLinemen who can move well in space. Since there's more "territory" to cover you can't have "plodders" - We'll probably have more "college elements" in the offense next year. Since wide splits are connected to "air raid / option" offenses - Speed at the skill positions will be at a premium. Since you're spreading out the defense horizontally you better have players that can take advantage of those "gaps" 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRL Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Samtorobby47 said: Where did you read Gase was doing that?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Steve Spurrier pops into my head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 10 minutes ago, Augustiniak said: sounds like they want to use darnold's strengths more. will be interesting to see the OL they sign and draft to execute this. could be a trade down to get someone like josh jones to max out on athleticisim. Andre Dillard played for Leach and there were articles about trading for him with Jeffery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantasy Island Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, 32EBoozer said: Over/Under Bellichek figures out how to beat it in 5 plays. Because he cheats!!! And Gase sucks. That combo is solid. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantasy Island Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 49 minutes ago, sec101row23 said: The problem you run into in the NFL with this philosophy is that the defensive fronts are much quicker, faster and stronger than college D-lines, thus they can exploit the “wide line splits” much easier. QW says hi and huh?. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 59 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said: This would be more conceivable if you had OL who are agile enough to block in open space. Our OLmen do not move well. Thanks MacDaddy! You need athletes on the line to make this effective. It’s not inconceivable that our 2020 OL will consist of 4 or 5 new starters. This is ideal timing for a scheme change. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetster Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said: It’s not inconceivable that our 2020 OL will consist of 4 or 5 new starters. This is ideal timing for a scheme change. And they sure as hell won't be all rookies! So look for guys that fit this scheme & you have your answers as to who JD will be targeting. Sounds like athletic guys with Inspector Gadget arms are in play to knock guys off stride just long enough to make plays with speedy guys spreading out all over the field. Making defenders play wider & more of the field horizontally & Vertically with speed is definitely a challenge for teams, ie. Chiefs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenbloodblitz Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 People be stupid. -Robert Steven Anderson 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUM-KNEE Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Sounds like a plus for Bell if we can get the horses to do it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, Jetster said: And they sure as hell won't be all rookies! So look for guys that fit this scheme & you have your answers as to who JD will be targeting. Sounds like athletic guys with Inspector Gadget arms are in play to knock guys off stride just long enough to make plays with speedy guys spreading out all over the field. Making defenders play wider & more of the field horizontally & Vertically with speed is definitely a challenge for teams, ie. Chiefs. I know that people don't like him, but Fant fits this to a tee. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Yeah, Pauline said it, it has to happen. I'll wait for Mehta's confirmation. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetster Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: I know that people don't like him, but Fant fits this to a tee. Good point. I bet Mekhi Becton would be ideal. I'm hoping he gets to us, I think he'd be the pick for sure! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, Jetster said: Good point. I bet Mekhi Becton would be ideal. I'm hoping he gets to us, I think he'd be the pick for sure! I wonder how they will consider endurance and conditioning? That is a place where a giant like Becton may have issues, even though he has proven he can really move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 12 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: I know that people don't like him, but Fant fits this to a tee. so would josh jones, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said: so would josh jones, no? He is the draft pick we keep hearing is a "fit." Eleven sure seems early though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 The wider the splits you have the less you can double team and or help out. I forsee the oline getting beat right off the line and like last year the qb running for his life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: He is the draft pick we keep hearing is a "fit." Eleven sure seems early though. which is why i definitely think a trade back to 14-15 is in play. my early, uninformed hunch is that there will emerge 2 clear tiers of the top OTs. if one of the top tier tackles is there at 11 the jets will take him, but if not they will look to trade back a few spots, with the thinking that either they take a guy like josh jones, or they take a wr and then address tackle in the 2nd round even if they trade up, where the tackle they get won't be that much worse than the guys they were considering at 15. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRL Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Augustiniak said: which is why i definitely think a trade back to 14-15 is in play. my early, uninformed hunch is that there will emerge 2 clear tiers of the top OTs. if one of the top tier tackles is there at 11 the jets will take him, but if not they will look to trade back a few spots, with the thinking that either they take a guy like josh jones, or they take a wr and then address tackle in the 2nd round even if they trade up, where the tackle they get won't be that much worse than the guys they were considering at 15. Great point!!! It "feels" like #11 will be a sweet spot for a trade down. Teams looking for a QB (Herbert, Love), a WR (Jeudy, Lamb) or a defensive player that slips (Brown?) will give Douglas a call 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetster Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 13 minutes ago, KRL said: Great point!!! It "feels" like #11 will be a sweet spot for a trade down. Teams looking for a QB (Herbert, Love), a WR (Jeudy, Lamb) or a defensive player that slips (Brown?) will give Douglas a call I agree with this. Being right outside the top 10 & not in the QB market makes the Jets pick pretty damn sweet. There will be some incredible prospects at 11 based on most mocks. Teams know the Jets will trade based on their needs in a great draft for Oline & WR. I get a feeling we're movin on back. Back it up, back it up. Beep...beep...beep. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 4 hours ago, 32EBoozer said: Over/Under Bellichek figures out how to beat it in 5 plays. I was thinking the same thing. Jets start 3 and 0, wide split mania is running wild. We feel unbeatable. Belichick in week four and its all over lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Probably why I’m reading about the Josh Jones stuff. I’ve read he’s good in space 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkeyeJet Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 A potential large collateral impact of a move like this is that it could decrease the learning curve for young OL coming from college, which has become a huge issue in recent years. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, KRL said: Great point!!! It "feels" like #11 will be a sweet spot for a trade down. Teams looking for a QB (Herbert, Love), a WR (Jeudy, Lamb) or a defensive player that slips (Brown?) will give Douglas a call i also wonder if we as fans don't have a good handle on which OTs will be in what tier. could be that thomas is closer to 2nd tier than 1st. also think that if the jets trade back in 1st round, they will target certain wrs in early 2nd and look to trade up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agoldstein54 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 if this is true i think it actually bodes well for chuma edoga, but i don't see how brian winters or jonathon harrison would do well with this. If we had three solid interior players its a lot more realistic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRL Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, Augustiniak said: i also wonder if we as fans don't have a good handle on which OTs will be in what tier. could be that thomas is closer to 2nd tier than 1st. also think that if the jets trade back in 1st round, they will target certain wrs in early 2nd and look to trade up. Another good point!!! I keep hearing "love" being given to Ezra Cleveland and Austin Jackson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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