Yesterday was proof that a dominant O-line is important

[nycdan]

5 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I've been saying this a lot. Cheaper signing a Center than a Guard plus, with pick #23, maybe Wyatt Davis if he falls & use the Thuney money on a pass rusher. 1 free agent signing, move McGovern to Guard, 1 of our 3 top draft picks on Wyatt Davis (cheap 5 years), stud Oline + a pass rusher! Win..win.

Or maybe target Linsley and Scherff.  Slide McGovern out and either let Elflein walk or keep him and trade Lewis.  Now you've got a really good starting lineup and some depth at the G/C position.  If Cam Clark pans out, you've got even more to work with.  It's a bit more of a cap investment, but I think Scherff would come a few million dollars cheaper than Thuney and still be quite an upgrade.

[Sperm Edwards]

20 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Speaking of GB losing Linsley in March... That's an interesting option for us.  Slide McGovern out to G and you've probably upgraded 2 positions while creating depth.  Then if you bring in Thuney or Scherff, the middle of the line is suddenly a strength.

I’ve been hoping he’s a Jets FA addition for a month now. 

[chirorob]

3 hours ago, Biggs said:

There's another side to that coin.  The Tampa Bay front, like the Giants front that upset Brady was great.  The team with the better defense won the game.  

So basically, we need an O Line, a QB, and a pass rush.

Piece of cake.

[Jetster]

1 hour ago, chirorob said:

So basically, we need an O Line, a QB, and a pass rush.

Piece of cake.

It can be done. Hardest part is the QB. Oline can be finished with 2 moves & we have the money and draft capital. Edge rushers are expensive & hard to draft. 

[#27TheDominator]

5 hours ago, neckdemon said:

Rodgers sacked 5 times and pressured more. Hall of fame qb in an mvp year looked pretty mediocre yesterday and a lot of it had to do with his o-lines terrible performance. Idc who you are, if your protection sucks you are going to have a hard time. The Giants unraveled Brady's almost undefeated year by pressuring him in the superbowl. 

BUILD THE OLINE!!!!

 

Mediocre?  He trhew for 350 yards and 3 TDs.  Darnold having a day like that ia a wet dream.  They scored 4 more points than the Bucs averaged all season and they certainly left points on the field.  I didn't see them as being on Rodgers.  

[Beerfish]

Most of the playoff QBs had tons of time to throw, even rogers had time often. 

The one bit of success the jets have had over the last 15 years or so , D'Brick and Mangold.

But "You can find olineman anywhere"

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Most of the playoff QBs had tons of time to throw, even rogers had time often. 

The one bit of success the jets have had over the last 15 years or so , D'Brick and Mangold.

But "You can find olineman anywhere"

Literally no one has argued this.

The only thing people have argued is not to use a # 2 pick on a LT when we just used a # 11 pick on a LT.  No one would have any issue with the Jets using the Seattle first rounder on a RT or Interior OL.  

[bitonti]

I agree with the original poster 

And the evidence is the Tampa Bay offensive line 

[rldev]

What I got out of the Tampa game that Murphy-Bunting was allowed to mug receivers in the open field on crucial game changing plays. He will not get away with that against KC.

[Sperm Edwards]

28 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Mediocre?  He trhew for 350 yards and 3 TDs.  Darnold having a day like that ia a wet dream.  They scored 4 more points than the Bucs averaged all season and they certainly left points on the field.  I didn't see them as being on Rodgers.  

But GB lost so therefore Rodgers is part of the problem, rather than an over-reliance on him to throw 4 or 5 TDs instead of merely 3.

Try to keep up. 

[Greensleeves]

6 hours ago, heymangold said:

yeah.  trade for watson, sign thuney and at 23 draft another G.

Becton-Thuney-McGovern-Rookie-Fant

For the life of me, I don't know why anyone be against this.

[nyjbuddy]

5 hours ago, Biggs said:

It's a team game that's about allocating resources.  There are lots of ways to win championships.  Dallas had arguably the best OL in the league for several years.  They didn't sniff a SB.  

Agreed.

If you look at KC, they have built their team in a different way than most.

O-line: Eric Fisher is their only 1st round lineman.  Retier(7th), Kilgore(5th), Wisnieski(2nd), Allegretti(7th), Rankin(3rd), Remmers(UDFA), Wylie(UDFA), Durant(UDFA). 

RB: Drafted a RB in the 1st round. Clyde Edwards-Helaire, 2020, 1st round pick

WR/TE: Didn't spend high end draft capital on pass catchers and spent money in free agency.  Hill(5th), Robinson(4th), Hardman(2nd), Kemp(UDFA), Pringle (UDFA), Kelce(3rd), Seals-Jones(UDFA), Keizer(UDFA).  Signed Watkins to a 3 year $48M.  A new 1 year contract for 2020 worth up to $16M.

The KC way of building a team is not a pattern to follow but does provide evidence that there is multiple ways to build a team that can win a championship and remain competitive.  With Reid and Mahomes, many of these things go unnoticed.  Having Hill and Kelce also doesn't hurt.

[Jetster]

12 minutes ago, nyjbuddy said:

Having Hill and Kelce also doesn't hurt.

Uh, THIS. Guys like this, make everyone else just that much better & make it easier for them to contribute. Do you see what happens when Hill flashes arcross the formation? Or when Kelce goes in motion? I mean SERIOUSLY these 2 guys are at or near THE BEST at their position in the entire league! Tyreek Hill makes Diggs look slow!

We were throwing to a rookie without camp, a cast off in Perriman, Herndon & Crowder was our best WR. My gawd! 

[Integrity28]

Nobody disagrees with this.

[bitonti]

36 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

For the life of me, I don't know why anyone be against this.

Because thuney is old and Fant sucks. Draft Sewell, pay him less than thuney and they can play anyone at guard 

[Beerfish]

43 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Literally no one has argued this.

The only thing people have argued is not to use a # 2 pick on a LT when we just used a # 11 pick on a LT.  No one would have any issue with the Jets using the Seattle first rounder on a RT or Interior OL.  

Page one post shaystadiumjetsfan post......literally

[#27TheDominator]

22 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

But GB lost so therefore Rodgers is part of the problem, rather than an over-reliance on him to throw 4 or 5 TDs instead of merely 3.

Try to keep up. 

Yeah, I mean if he played like that for a full season it would only be 5,500 yards 48 TDs/16INT @ 68%    MVP season?  Possibly.  

[Sperm Edwards]

26 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

For the life of me, I don't know why anyone be against this.

It’s more than adequate as a worst-case (whether it’s Thuney or Scherff or Linsley) it’s hard to imagine the Jets won’t go after at least one of them hard, and maybe two. 

It’s not imperative that we keep each of these higher-priced veterans past 2022, but it’s a huge kickstart while they start/continue to attempt retooling via the draft. Simply waiting to see if this or that draft investment has panned out, and if not to try again via the draft in 2022, to then decide the time has finally arrived to draft a QB in 2022 or 2023, is self-inflicted paralysis by overplanning.

• Watson
• Robinson
• Stud iOL FA (whether G or C, or both if it’s possible; even an AP center on top of adding a G isn’t likely to break the bank, and I’d rather throw ~$10-11MM per at Finley than keep Fant at $9MM)
• Worst case scenario of Fant at RT for another year isn’t ideal but it isn’t tragic. His run-blocking could do with some improvement, but I’d be more concerned bringing him back if his run-blocking and pass-blocking performances last year was reversed. Better if he was more adept at both, of course, but he’s not likely to get the QB killed. Or if he gets beat out by a rookie, even better. He seems versatile enough he could probably slide over to guard if needed, and can fill in probably anywhere except center if injuries dictate such a need.

Either way, the offense would already be transformed from disaster to dangerous, and the team isn’t depleted of all resources to at least incrementally upgrade the D.

[TheClashFan]

I see C and RT as the priorities.  Either sign a stud FA C or draft one early (late 1st or early 2nd is fine).  Move McGovern to RG, thus improving two spots on the OL at once. Draft a RT prospect in the 3rd (preferably) or 4th round to compete with (and hopefully soon replace) Fant.

I wouldn't draft an OL at #2 this draft.  If the Jets don't trade for a QB or want to draft one at #2, then trade down a bit for more picks. There are lots of holes to fill...such as WR, TE. I'd wait on a RB or any defensive players until round 3 at the soonest.  Prioritize the OL and weapons on offense.

Now, if the Jets do take an OL at #2, probably Sewell to plug in to LT, I won't complain b/c there's the chance to have two stud tackles along the OL. But, I also will figure that that means the Jets have serious reservations about Becton staying at LT.  He did have some apparent injury and fitness issues. 

Of course, all of this depends on who the Jets sign as free agents.

[bitonti]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

• Watson
• Robinson
• Stud iOL FA (whether G or C, or both if it’s possible; even an AP center on top of adding a G isn’t likely to break the bank, and I’d rather throw ~$10-11MM per at Finley than keep Fant at $9MM)
• Worst case scenario of Fant at RT for another year isn’t ideal but it isn’t tragic. His run-blocking could do with some improvement, but I’d be more concerned bringing him back if his run-blocking and pass-blocking performances last year was reversed. Better if he was more adept at both, of course, but he’s not likely to get the QB killed. Or if he gets beat out by a rookie, even better. He seems versatile enough he could probably slide over to guard if needed, and can fill in probably anywhere except center if injuries dictate such a need.

Here's Woody with the money he's not going to pay Watson/Robinson/Thuney

[heymangold]

59 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

For the life of me, I don't know why anyone be against this.

I’ve learned here that some Jets fans love wallowing in the SOJF mentality.  They don’t want nice things.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, TheClashFan said:

I see C and RT as the priorities.  Either sign a stud FA C or draft one early (late 1st or early 2nd is fine).  Move McGovern to RG, thus improving two spots on the OL at once. Draft a RT prospect in the 3rd (preferably) or 4th round to compete with (and hopefully soon replace) Fant.

I wouldn't draft an OL at #2 this draft.  If the Jets don't trade for a QB or want to draft one at #2, then trade down a bit for more picks. There are lots of holes to fill...such as WR, TE. I'd wait on a RB or any defensive players until round 3 at the soonest.  Prioritize the OL and weapons on offense.

Now, if the Jets do take an OL at #2, probably Sewell to plug in to LT, I won't complain b/c there's the chance to have two stud tackles along the OL. But, I also will figure that that means the Jets have serious reservations about Becton staying at LT.  He did have some apparent injury and fitness issues. 

Of course, all of this depends on who the Jets sign as free agents.

No doubt I’d rather have them draft Sewell than stay at #2 and draft a bust at QB or any other position. I don’t think anyone’s saying otherwise. But the hyper-focus on one non-QB is missing the forest by looking at the trees.

Adams can be a top strong safety, and the team can still be much better off with two cheap 1st rounders locked up for at least 4 more years, plus upgrade a 2022 4th to a 2021 3rd, plus the $16MM or more per season that Adams was hinting he felt he deserved. (IIRC his claim was he should have been paid comparably to one of the league’s best defenders, not merely like one of the best safeties, suggesting he ludicrously had the $20MM range in his head). 

They have a LT. Is Sewell a sure-thing upgrade? Many are saying yes as though he’s already proven he is, but is he such an upgrade to warrant passing on trading down essentially 2 drafts’ worth of picks? I think Watson’s worth that, and Fields or Wilson would be if I had a crystal ball and knew either was going to be a star passer. But otherwise using #2 on another T is disproportionate investment on a team with so many needs - including QB most of all - that it’s just overkill. Drafting a RT at #23 or #34 is more than ample investment, and most top teams do without sinking even that much draft capital.

From leaks it sounds like Douglas realizes this. Only hope it’s true. 

[Sperm Edwards]

17 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Here's Woody with the money he's not going to pay Watson/Robinson/Thuney

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

charity bet 

50 dollars to the charity of the winner choice if the Jets do not sign or acquire a player who makes more than 16 million dollars per season in the 2021 offseason 

2 overall draft picks not included  that's Jamal Adams, CJ Mosely money by the way

it's not what I want to have happen it's a prediction 

Watson/Robison/Thuney

they wont even sign one of those names or anyone else making 16 mil or higher per season 

 

[Ghost420]

4 hours ago, heymangold said:

Watson, Mims, Crowder, whatever RB is back there, Herndon.

you must not understand the affect of having an elite QB.

Everyone keeps bringing up Mims name like we know he is any good. He showed nothing at all last yr. 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, Ghost420 said:

Everyone keeps bringing up Mims name like we know he is any good. He showed nothing at all last yr. 

Then you weren't watching.  

Mims will be one of the 7 best WRs to come from the 2020 class despite being the 13th WR taken.  Book it.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

charity bet 

50 dollars to the charity of the winner choice if the Jets do not sign or acquire a player who makes more than 16 million dollars per season in the 2021 offseason 

2 overall draft picks not included  that's Jamal Adams, CJ Mosely money by the way

it's not what I want to have happen it's a prediction 

Watson/Robison/Thuney

they wont even sign one of those names or anyone else making 16 mil or higher per season 

 

Well since we don’t know if any of them are even available yet, except likely Robinson alone, it seems a silly bet for me at this time. I’d be betting on Robinson picking the Jets with or without Watson as much as the Jets making whatever offer.

The other player I threw out there is a center and none of them approach $16MM per. 

Depends what Douglas wants to do; people pretend to already know his philosophy or desires based on one offseason, but I don’t. Even still, you keep beating that drum as though there is some long list - or even a single hint of a leak of one instance - of either Johnson demanding their GM not sign a player because he was too expensive. 

It’s your thing, I get it. But it’s old. One would think after >10 years of yelling about it you’d come up with an example of even a leak that a GM’s hands were tied by ownership.

Bell, Mosley, Tru Johnson, extending Mo, and more. These were terrible decisions, but hey they spent crazy money on them it’s supposed to prove something. Someone probably drugged Woody/Chris & got those contracts done behind their backs.

I’ll bet Woody called in trading Adams from England, and threatened Douglas that he had to say it was all his own doing. Like every GM the Jets have had 100% of the time since he sadly bought the team.

[PepPep]

8 hours ago, neckdemon said:

Rodgers sacked 5 times and pressured more. Hall of fame qb in an mvp year looked pretty mediocre yesterday and a lot of it had to do with his o-lines terrible performance. Idc who you are, if your protection sucks you are going to have a hard time. The Giants unraveled Brady's almost undefeated year by pressuring him in the superbowl. 

BUILD THE OLINE!!!!

 

I agree. But I was also very impressed with the Bucs D. They are playing lights outs. It seems to me like year in year out (and this includes the Chiefs), teams that win SBs have their defenses step up when it matters. 

And guess who the QBs were in these games- HOF'ers: Rodgers, Brady and young stud Franchise QBs Mahomes, Allen. 

Jets need to get a stud Franchise QB- Watson. Or draft one at #2 and develop him Fields/Wilson. They need to sign Thuney to fortify that O-line, and they need a legit pass rusher- Rd. 2 (Basham Jr., Roche)/Seattle pick (Z.Collins, Ossai)/ or FA (Dupree, Barrett, Floyd, Okwara, etc.) 

Not saying all of these moves will work out but all these moves can happen and I think JD can make them happen. 

[Jetster]

1 hour ago, TheClashFan said:

I see C and RT as the priorities.  Either sign a stud FA C or draft one early (late 1st or early 2nd is fine).  Move McGovern to RG, thus improving two spots on the OL at once. Draft a RT prospect in the 3rd (preferably) or 4th round to compete with (and hopefully soon replace) Fant.

I wouldn't draft an OL at #2 this draft.  If the Jets don't trade for a QB or want to draft one at #2, then trade down a bit for more picks. There are lots of holes to fill...such as WR, TE. I'd wait on a RB or any defensive players until round 3 at the soonest.  Prioritize the OL and weapons on offense.

Now, if the Jets do take an OL at #2, probably Sewell to plug in to LT, I won't complain b/c there's the chance to have two stud tackles along the OL. But, I also will figure that that means the Jets have serious reservations about Becton staying at LT.  He did have some apparent injury and fitness issues. 

Of course, all of this depends on who the Jets sign as free agents.

I’ve said this from the beginning. If they are not taking a QB and don’t get great value to trade down, sign Thuney + Lindsey, draft Sewell & cut or TRADE Fant. 
No shame in losing your job to a stud like Becton moving over to RT to take your place because you drafted a generational Joe Thomas like LT in Sewell. 
That means with #23 & #34 you can go BPA at CB, WR, Edge rusher. 
That is a bad azz Oline! 
Sewell- Thuney- Lindsey- McGovern- Becton 

How would you like to play QB or RB behind thst Oline? Upgrade 3 positions for approx. 25 million minus the 8 million you save cutting Fant so 17 million total & maybe a another 3rd rounder? Plenty of teams would take Fants contract that aren’t in position to draft a Tackle that can play both spots. 
 

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

 

Bell, Mosley, Tru Johnson, extending Mo, and more. These were terrible decisions, but hey they spent crazy money on them it’s supposed to prove 

Those splashes were to bring them to the floor not to the cap...there was a time woody cared about winning, once they got rid of Rex that time finished. I don't think woody is evil he just doesn't care about winning. He gets paid the same either way 

[heymangold]

2 hours ago, Ghost420 said:

Everyone keeps bringing up Mims name like we know he is any good. He showed nothing at all last yr. 

Everyone loves Shenault and in 6 less games he had 200 less yards.  Mims is a solid talent that with a real QB, will make plays.

[neckdemon]

3 hours ago, nyjbuddy said:

Agreed.

If you look at KC, they have built their team in a different way than most.

O-line: Eric Fisher is their only 1st round lineman.  Retier(7th), Kilgore(5th), Wisnieski(2nd), Allegretti(7th), Rankin(3rd), Remmers(UDFA), Wylie(UDFA), Durant(UDFA). 

RB: Drafted a RB in the 1st round. Clyde Edwards-Helaire, 2020, 1st round pick

WR/TE: Didn't spend high end draft capital on pass catchers and spent money in free agency.  Hill(5th), Robinson(4th), Hardman(2nd), Kemp(UDFA), Pringle (UDFA), Kelce(3rd), Seals-Jones(UDFA), Keizer(UDFA).  Signed Watkins to a 3 year $48M.  A new 1 year contract for 2020 worth up to $16M.

The KC way of building a team is not a pattern to follow but does provide evidence that there is multiple ways to build a team that can win a championship and remain competitive.  With Reid and Mahomes, many of these things go unnoticed.  Having Hill and Kelce also doesn't hurt.

i like how you throw in kelce and hill at the end like they aren't 2 of the 3 best players on that team. mahomes' ability to throw dimes while scrambling is almost inhuman. you can't just emulate that model without a qb who has close to mahomes' ability in that regard. kelce and hill are a joke. they are 2 of the main reasons why that team is so damn good.

[nyjbuddy]

1 hour ago, PepPep said:

I agree. But I was also very impressed with the Bucs D. They are playing lights outs. It seems to me like year in year out (and this includes the Chiefs), teams that win SBs have their defenses step up when it matters. 

And guess who the QBs were in these games- HOF'ers: Rodgers, Brady and young stud Franchise QBs Mahomes, Allen. 

Jets need to get a stud Franchise QB- Watson. Or draft one at #2 and develop him Fields/Wilson. They need to sign Thuney to fortify that O-line, and they need a legit pass rusher- Rd. 2 (Basham Jr., Roche)/Seattle pick (Z.Collins, Ossai)/ or FA (Dupree, Barrett, Floyd, Okwara, etc.) 

Not saying all of these moves will work out but all these moves can happen and I think JD can make them happen. 

Another interesting tidbit from the final four teams: they all featured defensive coordinators that were at one time head coaches.  Leslie Frazier, Mike Pettine, Steve Spagnolo, Todd Bowles.  At one time these coaches were considered top coordinators, good enough to get a shot at being a head coach.  Also looking at recent super bowl match ups:

2019 Chiefs (Spagnolo) vs 49ers (Saleh)

2018 Patriots (None) vs Rams (Phillips)

2017 Eagles (Schwartz) vs Patriots (Patricia)

2016 Patriots (Patricia) vs Falcons (Richard Smith)

2015 Broncos (Phillips) vs Panthers (McDermott)

2014 Patriots (Patricia) vs Seahawks (Quinn)

There is no validity behind this trend, especially with the small sample size, but in recent super bowls: previous head coach DC > future head coach DC > DC with no future as head coach.  If you go back further I'm sure this trend quickly falls apart (2013 Seahawks(Quinn) vs Broncos(Del Rio)).

[nyjbuddy]

8 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

i like how you throw in kelce and hill at the end like they aren't 2 of the 3 best players on that team. mahomes' ability to throw dimes while scrambling is almost inhuman. you can't just emulate that model without a qb who has close to mahomes' ability in that regard. kelce and hill are a joke. they are 2 of the main reasons why that team is so damn good.

Like I said in the post, "The KC way of building a team is not a pattern to follow but does provide evidence that there is multiple ways to build a team that can win a championship and remain competitive."

The point was not to disregard the players on the Chiefs and their impact.  But many believe that there is only one way to build a team for success.  It may be to draft offensive line early in the draft (Chiefs lack high draft picks on their offensive line; Fisher being the only 1st rounder).  Others believe its investing early picks in pass catchers (Chiefs have not done that either).  Some want to stay away from 1st round RBs (Chiefs just selected CEH in the 1st round).  Others want to stay away from spending on high priced free agents (Chiefs signed Sammy Watkins to a fairly high contract, averaging $16M a year making him a top 15 WR).  These guidelines are backed by past experience and sound statistical analysis (bust rates of lineman vs other positions in the draft, cost of signing a pass catcher vs drafting one, career length and impact of running backs in todays NFL, etc) and they are all valid ways on constructing a successful team.  But what the Chiefs roster construction provides an example of a team that is successful that did not follow these rules.  In other words, there is no single silver bullet to building a successful NFL; there are many different ways to build a successful NFL team.

 

[Philc1]

On 1/25/2021 at 1:57 PM, sheastadiumjetfan said:

When you have a franchise quarterback like Mahomes And Andy Reidit doesn’t matter how bad your offense of line is

EricFisher left tackle is officially out for the Super Bowl 274.13 kB · 0 downloads

Get the franchise quarterback first 274.13 kB · 0 downloads

Too bad Watson isn’t anywhere near as good as Mahomes with Reid