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Yesterday was proof that a dominant O-line is important


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yeah.  trade for watson, sign thuney and at 23 draft another G. Becton-Thuney-McGovern-Rookie-Fant

Rodgers sacked 5 times and pressured more. Hall of fame qb in an mvp year looked pretty mediocre yesterday and a lot of it had to do with his o-lines terrible performance. Idc who you are, if your pro

You have to build all around and hope you get lucky on some draft of middle of the draft type picks. You look at the Chiefs Travis Kelce was drafted in the 3rd round. Tyreek Hill was drafted in the 5t

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2 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

Rodgers sacked 5 times and pressured more. Hall of fame qb in an mvp year looked pretty mediocre yesterday and a lot of it had to do with his o-lines terrible performance. Idc who you are, if your protection sucks you are going to have a hard time. The Giants unraveled Brady's almost undefeated year by pressuring him in the superbowl. 

BUILD THE OLINE!!!!

 

There's another side to that coin.  The Tampa Bay front, like the Giants front that upset Brady was great.  The team with the better defense won the game.  

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2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

There's another side to that coin.  The Tampa Bay front, like the Giants front that upset Brady was great.  The team with the better defense won the game.  

agreed that they are very good. but there are quite a few very good fronts in the league. This is why you need to have a great o-line that can mitigate that

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5 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

agreed that they are very good. but there are quite a few very good fronts in the league. This is why you need to have a great o-line that can mitigate that

It's a team game that's about allocating resources.  There are lots of ways to win championships.  Dallas had arguably the best OL in the league for several years.  They didn't sniff a SB.  

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1 minute ago, shawn306 said:

You have to build all around and hope you get lucky on some draft of middle of the draft type picks. You look at the Chiefs Travis Kelce was drafted in the 3rd round. Tyreek Hill was drafted in the 5th round. 

 

Absolutely.  Championship teams get game changing players in the middle and end of the draft.  

Rodgers had a monster year but what people miss is the Packers this past year ran the ball.  They averaged just under 28 rushing attempts per game which was 8th in the league.  They were 12th in the league in passing attempts.  Yesterday they ran the ball 16 times.  Tampa Bay ran it 24 times.  Tampa bay had 9 more rushing yards in those 8 extra attempts but it impacted the pass rush.  

Green Bay allowed Tampa Bay to take them out of their O.  Tampa Bay wasn't taken out of their O by the Green Bay D even though Tampa Bay's OL wasn't able to run the ball very effectively.  

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37 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

Rodgers sacked 5 times and pressured more. Hall of fame qb in an mvp year looked pretty mediocre yesterday and a lot of it had to do with his o-lines terrible performance. Idc who you are, if your protection sucks you are going to have a hard time. The Giants unraveled Brady's almost undefeated year by pressuring him in the superbowl. 

BUILD THE OLINE!!!!

 

After watching the games yesterday, the thing you took away was that we should build the Oline?

Have to say I went the opposite direction, brady is brady but if you dont have an elite QB you simply arent gonna beat the Chiefs or Bills for the next ten year.  Id actually raise the price for what Id pay for watson after seeing these teams yesterday.

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Because he's a free agent I was keeping an eye on Lindsey, Green Bay's Center. Absolute STUD, he was just jacking up Suh and all comers on the inside, it was the horrible play of the tackles that ruined the Packers offense. Shaq Barrett was MVP. We need to finish the Oline so Saleh can operate this stretch running Shanahan offense. Love to see a signing like Lindsey, McGovern goes to Guard & Wyatt Davis drafted. Use the money Thuney cost to get a pass rusher in here. Douglas is finishing these trenches FIRST on both sides of the ball. 

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Packers normally DO have a dominant line - but injuries meant they faced the Bucs front with backups in key spots.

Worrying that now KC are in the same place - starting backups / alternatives at both tackle spots in the Superbowl.

I'd also echo what was mentioned above about defense still mattering ... KC score loads of points yes, but their D was what held Buffalo from doing the same, and preventing it from even being close to a shootout. Similarly the Bucs D got to Rodgers far more than the Packers D got to Brady. Both GB and Buffalo had to settle for FGs far too often - that to me was the difference in both games. 

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42 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Packers normally DO have a dominant line - but injuries meant they faced the Bucs front with backups in key spots.

Worrying that now KC are in the same place - starting backups / alternatives at both tackle spots in the Superbowl.

I'd also echo what was mentioned above about defense still mattering ... KC score loads of points yes, but their D was what held Buffalo from doing the same, and preventing it from even being close to a shootout. Similarly the Bucs D got to Rodgers far more than the Packers D got to Brady. Both GB and Buffalo had to settle for FGs far too often - that to me was the difference in both games. 

Agreed.  This game will always come down to 3 simple things.  Having a  QB, getting to the QB, and protecting the QB.   If you want to beat the elite QBs you need to be able to pressure them with 4 man fronts.  Having to blitz and scheme pass rush only takes you so far because the good QB and competent offense will beat that.  

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Just look at all the teams in the final 4, they had great QB play. You don't get close without it. Watson could get us to 8 wins in the first year with Saleh I believe. QBs like Watson never shake free like this.......never.

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Fisher being out is a HUGE PROBLEM for KC. The Bills defense STINKS and they have a very weak Dline & LBs. 

Tampa has Suh in the middle, and Barrett & JPP! But, the key will be Devin White. White is a tremendous LB that can run with the likes of Kelce & has the power and quickness to knock him off his routes a bit. 

Buffalo who won all those games came into that game being #32 in the league giving up yards to opposing TEs, a recipe for disaster vs Kelce. Godwin got his mojo back, Tampa has 2 tough RBs in Fournette & Jones, I think Ariens & Bowles will have a great plan in place in 2 weeks. Bowles could never stop TEs when he was here, but he didn't have a Devin White either. Barrett & White will be the guys to watch with a decimated Oline. 

No one controls a clock as well as Brady. If I was a betting man, with KCs injuries on the Oline? I'm going Bucs in this one. They match up really well. 

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18 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.  This game will always come down to 3 simple things.  Having a QB, getting to the QB, and protecting the QB.   If you want to beat the elite QBs you need to be able to pressure them with 4 man fronts.  Having to blitz and scheme pass rush only takes you so far because the good QB and competent offense will beat that.  

How it is every single year. And won't change. We make these threads every year but the formula never changes. 

Need a good HC, good QB, good defense (aka a good team). Ta da! Superbowl.

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9 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Fisher being out is a HUGE PROBLEM for KC. The Bills defense STINKS and they have a very weak Dline & LBs. 

Tampa has Suh in the middle, and Barrett & JPP! But, the key will be Devin White. White is a tremendous LB that can run with the likes of Kelce & has the power and quickness to knock him off his routes a bit. 

Buffalo who won all those games came into that game being #32 in the league giving up yards to opposing TEs, a recipe for disaster vs Kelce. Godwin got his mojo back, Tampa has 2 tough RBs in Fournette & Jones, I think Ariens & Bowles will have a great plan in place in 2 weeks. Bowles could never stop TEs when he was here, but he didn't have a Devin White either. Barrett & White will be the guys to watch with a decimated Oline. 

No one controls a clock as well as Brady. If I was a betting man, with KCs injuries on the Oline? I'm going Bucs in this one. They match up really well. 

All good points.  But betting against KC, who will likely have Watkins and Bell back as well in two weeks, just feels like a really bad play.  Mahomes can move around and still make godlike throws and they can work fast throws underneath the Safety coverage all day.  TB is really good at stopping the run.  KC doesn't really need to run as much as most teams.  I think they're still going to put up 30 without breaking a sweat.  The bigger question for me is if KC's DBs can repeat their performance of blanketing the receivers.  Diggs is great, but now they have Evans, Godwin and Gronk to deal with.  

I'm expecting a great game but I'm still putting my nickels on Mahomes and Reid.

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2 hours ago, neckdemon said:

Rodgers sacked 5 times and pressured more. Hall of fame qb in an mvp year looked pretty mediocre yesterday and a lot of it had to do with his o-lines terrible performance. Idc who you are, if your protection sucks you are going to have a hard time. The Giants unraveled Brady's almost undefeated year by pressuring him in the superbowl. 

BUILD THE OLINE!!!!

 

excellent point.  anyone see the kc oline blocking about 20 yards down field on that short pass to hardman (i think).  50 yard gain.  mahommes is exceptional but that oline really knows how to block during all of those play action pass plays.

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2 hours ago, BCJet said:

After watching the games yesterday, the thing you took away was that we should build the Oline?

Have to say I went the opposite direction, brady is brady but if you dont have an elite QB you simply arent gonna beat the Chiefs or Bills for the next ten year.  Id actually raise the price for what Id pay for watson after seeing these teams yesterday.

I watched Brady stand in the pocket and have time to eat a sandwich before every throw. So yeah.

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38 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Fisher being out is a HUGE PROBLEM for KC. The Bills defense STINKS and they have a very weak Dline & LBs. 

Tampa has Suh in the middle, and Barrett & JPP! But, the key will be Devin White. White is a tremendous LB that can run with the likes of Kelce & has the power and quickness to knock him off his routes a bit. 

Buffalo who won all those games came into that game being #32 in the league giving up yards to opposing TEs, a recipe for disaster vs Kelce. Godwin got his mojo back, Tampa has 2 tough RBs in Fournette & Jones, I think Ariens & Bowles will have a great plan in place in 2 weeks. Bowles could never stop TEs when he was here, but he didn't have a Devin White either. Barrett & White will be the guys to watch with a decimated Oline. 

No one controls a clock as well as Brady. If I was a betting man, with KCs injuries on the Oline? I'm going Bucs in this one. They match up really well. 

I love this matchup and I agree TB D is much better than Buffalo's.  One thing about Mahomes is he tends to neutralize inside pass rushers by simply backing up.  Rodgers doesn't back up, he rolls outside the pocket.  Mahomes does both.  I also don't think Mahomes gets tight in a big spot.  He runs that 3rd down into the end zone easily.  

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2 hours ago, neckdemon said:

Rodgers sacked 5 times and pressured more. Hall of fame qb in an mvp year looked pretty mediocre yesterday and a lot of it had to do with his o-lines terrible performance. Idc who you are, if your protection sucks you are going to have a hard time. The Giants unraveled Brady's almost undefeated year by pressuring him in the superbowl. 

BUILD THE OLINE!!!!

 

I think it’s more important that it shows it’s best if your reliable pass blocking all pro LT - at worst top 3 in the game - doesn’t tear his ACL in practice on December 31st.

The OL that GB built was excellent, but after losing Bulaga in the offseason & Bakhtiari just before the postseason, the strength of the OL was up the middle and it’s not excellent when Bakhtiari is replaced by Billy Turner and Wagner is put under pressure he doesn’t typically face, and frankly just had a bad game.

100% agree build the line. 100% disagree if the prescribed remedy is using the #2 overall pick to do it.

Bakhtiari was a 4th round pick and might have been the best LT in football before ripping his ACL a few weeks ago; Linsley a 5th round pick and was 1st team AP; Jenkins a 2nd round pick and a probower in his 2nd season; Patrick undrafted; Turner a low/mid-priced FA who’s more of a swiss army knife than a career rock at any one position. They drafted Bulaga in the same slot as our Seattle pick this year but that was a decade ago (and is proof positive you can’t keep everyone for good even if you draft well, as GB’s probably going to lose Linsley in March as well to compound that loss last year and the unknown with Bakhtiari‘s knee next year).

They should upgrade with 2 FAs and, in addition to using at worst another day 2 pick on a G/T, should make it their business to push drafting OL in rounds 3-5 every year. Most won’t pan out (but that could be said for any position drafted on day 3) but they need to create a pipeline without repeatedly committing high picks there. Sometimes it’ll be Shell; sometimes it’ll be Winters; sometimes it could be Orlando Brown if our GM doesn’t have his head so far up his ass he instead takes another day 1-2 DT, this time from some Division III Iveneverheardofit State.

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3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

\

Bakhtiari was a 4th round pick and might have been the best LT in football before ripping his ACL a few weeks ago; Linsley a 5th round pick and was 1st team AP; Jenkins a 2nd round pick and a probower in his 2nd season; Patrick undrafted; Turner a low/mid-priced FA who’s more of a swiss army knife than a career rock at any one position. They drafted Bulaga in the same slot as our Seattle pick this year but that was a decade ago (and is proof positive you can’t keep everyone for good even if you draft well, as GB’s probably going to lose Linsley in March as well to compound that loss last year and the unknown with Bakhtiari‘s knee next year).

They should upgrade with 2 FAs and, in addition to using at worst another day 2 pick on a G/T, should make it their business to push drafting OL in rounds 3-5 every year. Most won’t pan out (but that could be said for any position drafted on day 3) but they need to create a pipeline without repeatedly committing high picks there. Sometimes it’ll be Shell; sometimes it’ll be Winters; sometimes it could be Orlando Brown if our GM doesn’t have his head so far up his ass he instead takes another day 1-2 DT, this time from some Division III Iveneverheardofit State.

Speaking of GB losing Linsley in March... That's an interesting option for us.  Slide McGovern out to G and you've probably upgraded 2 positions while creating depth.  Then if you bring in Thuney or Scherff, the middle of the line is suddenly a strength.

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This is the problem with small sample sizes. Just as easy to say yesterday proved that having an elite QB is most important considering the SB will feature the GOAT and the GOAT-heir-apparent.

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1 hour ago, sheastadiumjetfan said:

This Super Bowl will be very telling if a guy like Mahomes could still manage a win with this makeshift  line

Herbert had the worst graded line in the NFL according to PFF. Didn't seem to affect him much

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8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think it’s more important that it shows it’s best if your reliable pass blocking all pro LT - at worst top 3 in the game - doesn’t tear his ACL in practice on December 31st.

The OL that GB built was excellent, but after losing Bulaga in the offseason & Bakhtiari just before the postseason, the strength of the OL was up the middle and it’s not excellent when Bakhtiari is replaced by Billy Turner and Wagner is put under pressure he doesn’t typically face, and frankly just had a bad game.

100% agree build the line. 100% disagree if the prescribed remedy is using the #2 overall pick to do it.

Bakhtiari was a 4th round pick and might have been the best LT in football before ripping his ACL a few weeks ago; Linsley a 5th round pick and was 1st team AP; Jenkins a 2nd round pick and a probower in his 2nd season; Patrick undrafted; Turner a low/mid-priced FA who’s more of a swiss army knife than a career rock at any one position. They drafted Bulaga in the same slot as our Seattle pick this year but that was a decade ago (and is proof positive you can’t keep everyone for good even if you draft well, as GB’s probably going to lose Linsley in March as well to compound that loss last year and the unknown with Bakhtiari‘s knee next year).

They should upgrade with 2 FAs and, in addition to using at worst another day 2 pick on a G/T, should make it their business to push drafting OL in rounds 3-5 every year. Most won’t pan out (but that could be said for any position drafted on day 3) but they need to create a pipeline without repeatedly committing high picks there. Sometimes it’ll be Shell; sometimes it’ll be Winters; sometimes it could be Orlando Brown if our GM doesn’t have his head so far up his ass he instead takes another day 1-2 DT, this time from some Division III Iveneverheardofit State.

Good points, Lindsey was tremendous yesterday, I was watching him & from snap to standup he was stoning all comers including Suh. Rogers had zero pressure up the middle, it was all edge flushing him left & right. 

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3 hours ago, neckdemon said:

Rodgers sacked 5 times and pressured more. Hall of fame qb in an mvp year looked pretty mediocre yesterday and a lot of it had to do with his o-lines terrible performance. Idc who you are, if your protection sucks you are going to have a hard time. The Giants unraveled Brady's almost undefeated year by pressuring him in the superbowl. 

BUILD THE OLINE!!!!

 

Rodgers looked real good on the drive to get his team back in the game.  I think the pressure between his ears had more impact on him than the pressure from the Bucks D when they were knocking on the door. 

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3 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Speaking of GB losing Linsley in March... That's an interesting option for us.  Slide McGovern out to G and you've probably upgraded 2 positions while creating depth.  Then if you bring in Thuney or Scherff, the middle of the line is suddenly a strength.

I've been saying this a lot. Cheaper signing a Center than a Guard plus, with pick #23, maybe Wyatt Davis if he falls & use the Thuney money on a pass rusher. 1 free agent signing, move McGovern to Guard, 1 of our 3 top draft picks on Wyatt Davis (cheap 5 years), stud Oline + a pass rusher! Win..win.

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