It has to be Asked did Bill Bellichick hold back Tom Brady??????

[Philc1]

33 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

I think Charlie has a point when it comes to W/R's outside of the few years with Randy Moss and Gronk Brady did well with no name's to throw to..

Brady is the GOAT Qb

 

it is what it is. Jets fans bashing Brady sound like idiotic Yankee haters circa 2000 saying Jeter sucks

[More Cowbell]

4 minutes ago, shevys said:

Never had a true # 1? 

Moss was a flash in the pan compared to Edelman

[jago]

BB also had to build his teams for the weather. an air raid attack was not fit for 3-4 cold div games plus playoffs v likely contending teams like pit bal den and yes the nyj.
i take nothing from tom he raised everyones level and they went to near perfection when he did have moss.

[Savage69]

6 minutes ago, chirorob said:

So would i.

The 85 bears defense scored more points than they allowed for the entire playoffs.  

They just couldn't stop Marino in their 15-1 season..

[Savage69]

1 minute ago, jago said:

BB also had to build his teams for the weather. an air raid attack was not fit for 3-4 cold div games plus playoffs v likely contending teams like pit bal den and yes the nyj.
i take nothing from tom he raised everyones level and they went to near perfection when he did have moss.

Yep Brady passed for 50 td's with 8 picks when Moss came on Board..

[Charlie Brown]

Brady is great but I love Johnny U.......

Start looking at 26.00..........

As he said game after game ..

'Talks Cheap let play the Game"

Another era...

 

[jago]

They just couldn't stop Marino in their 15-1 season..

coincidentally watched most of SBXIX yest, prior year, 84 49ers v marino. very similar game to last night. montana/brady executed without much flair, got the lead and winning D wore down the kid phenom.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Savage69 said:

The one HC that stands out is the Tuna. In the first win over the Bronco's Phil Simms had 21 td's and 22 picks and 55% completions in the season. In the 2nd win over the Bills Hostetler was his Bowl QB..

Simms numbers were incredibly similar to Elway, who he beat in the SB.

Was a different time and era.  

[Jet Nut]

32 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Brady is great but I love Johnny U.......

Start looking at 26.00..........

As he said game after game ..

'Talks Cheap let play the Game"

Another era...

 

My fathers favorite pre Namath QB.  Always would tell me that Unitas was the best ever

[Jet_Engine1]

[Jet Nut]

47 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Belichick 11 games under .500 without TB12

And a total nonsense to compare 5 seasons with the lousy, running out of town Browns to his 20 years with the Pats.

 

[nyjunc]

2 hours ago, Biggs said:

Yup 3 playoff games and the opposition scored 13, 17 and 17.  The Rams at the time averaged over 30 per game and had a completely stacked O.  It was all Brady's 145 passing yards and 1 TD.   

That was the lone postseason where the D was almost great throughout but remember:

Div rd was in a blizzard vs Oakland

Championship Game was vs Kordell stewart

They did a great job in the SB for 3 quarters but had an almost historical collapse before Brady and the O saved them.

 

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

And a total nonsense to compare 5 seasons with the lousy, running out of town Browns to his 20 years with the Pats.

 

Those lousy browns just came off 3 AFC Championship Game appearances in the 5 years before BB then he had 4 losing seasons in 5 years with them.

 

By the way, he hady a losing record with NE too when Brady isn't his starter.

[Sonny Werblin]

3 hours ago, chirorob said:

The conservative plans that led him to setting the single season passing Touchdown Record?

One season out of how many? Remind me, did BB let Brady air it out in the SB that season?

[Sonny Werblin]

3 hours ago, Biggs said:

The win against the Rams was all defense.  The Pats D intimidated a completely stacked O and they changed the rules to help out the O after that win.  That actually made Brady more valuable going forward.  Cary on.  

The way I saw it, the Pats D sold out with extra DB's and dared the Rams to run the ball, and when Marshall Faulk came to the sideline and begged his HC to start running the ball more, his arrogant A-hole of a HC refused.

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

That was the lone postseason where the D was almost great throughout but remember:

Div rd was in a blizzard vs Oakland

Championship Game was vs Kordell stewart

They did a great job in the SB for 3 quarters but had an almost historical collapse before Brady and the O saved them.

 

I guess the one year when the actually had the No. 1 O in the NFL and scored 14 points it was the defenses fault?  

Your use of the term historical collapse by allowing the Rams to score 2 times is interesting.   After the first TD Brady lead the New England O on a 1 minute 25 second drive of 8 yards before punting.  After the Pats punted the Rams went on a 12 play drive that ended in a punt from the NE 49.   Brady and the Pats O then went on a 1:44 second 3 play drive for 5 yards that resulted in a punt.   The Punt was a 30 yarder to the Rams 45.  The Rams than had 3 straight completions for a TD.  The Pats got the ball back on the 30 and Brady drove them right down the field to the 30 to set up a 48 yard game winning kick.  

Brady was so good offensively that the Pats scored 17 points with 26.30 of total possession.  6 points and 9.8 minutes of total possession in the second half.  In another words, Brady left the ball in the hands of the Rams O for most of the game and an eternity in the 2nd half when the D was finally chipped for 2 TD's Between those two TD's Brady did nothing.  

Let me explain football to you.  It's a game of field position, defense, offense and special teams.  They all work together.  There was no collapse by the Pats D.  They held one of the great offenses in NFL History to 14 points despite their O being ineffective and leaving them on the field all game.  

When Brady had the greatest O in the NFL and a historically great O he put up 14 against the Giants and the D kept them in the game.  Of course it was the D's fault the Giants scored 17.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

Those lousy browns just came off 3 AFC Championship Game appearances in the 5 years before BB then he had 4 losing seasons in 5 years with them.

 

By the way, he hady a losing record with NE too when Brady isn't his starter.

They won 3 games the year before BB.  Lost 10 of their last 11 games.  

The following year under BB they doubled their win total.  Not great but doesnt make them a playoff team.

And off course this is relevant somehow.  

You watch the Pats these past 20 years and dont see a well coached team I dont know what to tell you

[jeremy2020]

Tampa's defense absolutely dominates the game...

..how good is brady?!

Let's talk about that Todd Bowles guy. He might make a good head coach.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

5 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Anyone who paid attention knew it was Brady not Belichick that was most responsible for the Pats dynasty.  Without Brady Belichick has proven to be a mediocre Head Coach.  

Maybe so, but it sure as sh*t wasn't Loyd Carr that developed Tom.  

Everyone here screams that quarterbacks need to be coached, supported, and developed by good coaching staffs.

Well, Mumbles did that.  He deserves credit for helping Tom reach his potential.

 

If Tom is on the Jets, he probably never even starts a game.  

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

I guess the one year when the actually had the No. 1 O in the NFL and scored 14 points it was the defenses fault?  

Your use of the term historical collapse by allowing the Rams to score 2 times is interesting.   After the first TD Brady lead the New England O on a 1 minute 25 second drive of 8 yards before punting.  After the Pats punted the Rams went on a 12 play drive that ended in a punt from the NE 49.   Brady and the Pats O then went on a 1:44 second 3 play drive for 5 yards that resulted in a punt.   The Punt was a 30 yarder to the Rams 45.  The Rams than had 3 straight completions for a TD.  The Pats got the ball back on the 30 and Brady drove them right down the field to the 30 to set up a 48 yard game winning kick.  

Brady was so good offensively that the Pats scored 17 points with 26.30 of total possession.  6 points and 9.8 minutes of total possession in the second half.  In another words, Brady left the ball in the hands of the Rams O for most of the game and an eternity in the 2nd half when the D was finally chipped for 2 TD's Between those two TD's Brady did nothing.  

Let me explain football to you.  It's a game of field position, defense, offense and special teams.  They all work together.  There was no collapse by the Pats D.  They held one of the great offenses in NFL History to 14 points despite their O being ineffective and leaving them on the field all game.  

When Brady had the greatest O in the NFL and a historically great O he put up 14 against the Giants and the D kept them in the game.  Of course it was the D's fault the Giants scored 17.

Not only that , but half the Pats points were scored by or completely set up by the defense.  Ty Law returned an interception for a TD and another interception that was returned to the Rams 30 led to a FG and 17-3 lead.  Brady was a game manager in 2001.  

[Philc1]

On 2/8/2021 at 9:06 PM, Jet Nut said:

And a total nonsense to compare 5 seasons with the lousy, running out of town Browns to his 20 years with the Pats.

 

You mean when he was their head coach?

[Philc1]

On 2/9/2021 at 12:06 AM, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Maybe so, but it sure as sh*t wasn't Loyd Carr that developed Tom.  

Everyone here screams that quarterbacks need to be coached, supported, and developed by good coaching staffs.

Well, Mumbles did that.  He deserves credit for helping Tom reach his potential.

 

If Tom is on the Jets, he probably never even starts a game.  

Charlie Weis developed Brady that’s why he got the Notre Dame job immediately after.  And Brady was good at Michigan he was just buried in the depth chart by recruits like Griese, Henson and Dreisbach who were way more hyped

 

Belichick has always been a defensive coach.  The one year he actually called offensive plays (2005) was statistically one of Brady’s worse seasons and they got eliminated by Jake freakin Plummer in the playoffs 

 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

You mean when he was their head coach?

Yeah when he was a HC.
For only 5 seasons.  Of a dysfunctional team on its way out of Cleveland and all that went with it.

Compared to the twenty at his second job.  Of a team he ran.
When he was the HC/GM.  Where the team is almost always in contention. 

Sorry, try as much as you want, 5 years doesnt trump 20

[Philc1]

23 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah when he was a HC.
For only 5 seasons.  Of a dysfunctional team on its way out of Cleveland and all that went with it.

Compared to the twenty at his second job.  Of a team he ran.
When he was the HC/GM.  Where the team is almost always in contention. 

Sorry, try as much as you want, 5 years doesnt trump 20

[jetophile]

On 2/8/2021 at 6:19 AM, extmenace said:

Belicheck didn’t hold back Brady. They made the super bowl 9 times together but what this win does make a little more clear is that Brady probably made belicheck greater than he may be viewed as. With that being said, most of your HOF coaches had HOF QB’s . . .

. . . that didn't both habitually cheat. I wrapped up the hanging chad at the end of that sentence for you.

[jetophile]

On 2/8/2021 at 2:20 PM, More Cowbell said:

Moss was a flash in the pan compared to Edelman

Moss also quit on the ball in the SB. 18-1, thanks, Randy! No sarcasm. Thanks, Randy, I mean it. ?

[jetophile]

On 2/8/2021 at 2:18 PM, Philc1 said:

Brady is the GOAT Qb

 

it is what it is. Jets fans bashing Brady sound like idiotic Yankee haters circa 2000 saying Jeter sucks

Did Jeter systematically cheat over the course of his professional career? 

[Biggs]

31 minutes ago, jetophile said:

Did Jeter systematically cheat over the course of his professional career? 

Jeter wasn't married so no he didn't cheat.  He also was nice enough to leave them an autographed baseball on the way out the door.

[jamesr]

Beli / Patsies had the challenge of sustaining a winning run across a long period of time while Brady was there. That is a challenge that TB has not (yet) had to deal with.

Brady was able to pick and choose his destination, where the surrounding talent was in place but they were missing a QB. He went from a weaker surrounding cast to a stronger one, and the combination was enough to make a strong run.

So I'd say it's inevitable that any QB will have lean years if they stay with the same team for over a decade ... if there was "holding back" it was more likely due to the ebb and flow of overall team talent.

[freestater]

I'll hand it to @Charlie Brown in one respect; Belichick the GM definitely held Brady back from the standpoint of the middling record of talent acquisition. When Pioli was around, those were talented teams. When Bill took over, they gradually became Colts North, a collection of jags and Brady. 

[y2k8]

 

You could argue that Brady didn't really become an elite QB until after the first 3 SBs were won. 

He didn't make First Team All-Pro until he was 30 years old.

Brady is now unquestionably the GOAT but today's perception of the player glosses over the how and why the first 3 championships were won and the several years between Championship #3 and #4 when he was truly elite and didn't win a SB.

[Charlie Brown]

1 hour ago, freestater said:

I'll hand it to @Charlie Brown in one respect; Belichick the GM definitely held Brady back from the standpoint of the middling record of talent acquisition. When Pioli was around, those were talented teams. When Bill took over, they gradually became Colts North, a collection of jags and Brady. 

This is what I meant and it made me sick!!!!!  

[jetophile]

3 hours ago, Biggs said:

Jeter wasn't married so no he didn't cheat.  He also was nice enough to leave them an autographed baseball on the way out the door.

He didn't cheat systematically at baseball which is really more what I meant; but true, he also didn't have a Sharon Shenocca as far as we know. Or be so stupidly narcissistically arrogant to mail her cash in a Yankees envelope with a reurn address to Steinbrenner's office while he was at it.

Oh, and fck Tom Cheat. I almost forgot myself.

[WestCoastOffensive]

On 2/7/2021 at 9:37 PM, Charlie Brown said:

Look I really really dislike the Pats and yes Tom Brady in the sporting sense.......

And I don't care what happened tonight ...

However, we have to pause and ask:

Did Bellichick actually hold up TB from being an even greater winning QB!!

Did he?

The answer for me is yes.. And it makes me sick!

I think it is scary thing to consider, but I actually believe TB would have been even MORE successful without Bellichick on a good team and that is a really frightening thought!

No; they won titles, for years in a row. BB accomplished a 20 year reign of terror that made Bill Walsh's corpse nervous. 

I think that comes with a price; low-drafting position. Your talent around your franchise players will have to be addressed in free agency, just to stay competitive.

[WestCoastOffensive]

10 hours ago, freestater said:

I'll hand it to @Charlie Brown in one respect; Belichick the GM definitely held Brady back from the standpoint of the middling record of talent acquisition. When Pioli was around, those were talented teams. When Bill took over, they gradually became Colts North, a collection of jags and Brady. 

The Man in Black could write songs about unheralded jags. Brady? He'd probably step on Brady's shoes one time; just to let him know.