Justin Fields Confusion Thread

[HawkeyeJet]

I'll say that the situation around Fields just shows me I don't really know what to look for in a QB based of watching games and clips.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that trained eyes can spot "processing" issues much greater than I can, and he has a lot bigger issue with that thank the weekend warrior scouts thought. 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

2 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I'll say that the situation around Fields just shows me I don't really know what to look for in a QB based of watching games and clips.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that trained eyes can spot "processing" issues much greater than I can, and he has a lot bigger issue with that thank the weekend warrior scouts thought. 

My opinion is that he's probably bombing some interviews, which is surprising, but wouldn't show up to outsiders who aren't in those meetings. This is a league that does not know how to project franchise QBs reliably so it's possible he ends up as another one of those guys that are very good who mysteriously drops in the draft.

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

Ohio state QBs

[Philc1]

9 minutes ago, SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN said:

Ohio state QBs

[Sonny Werblin]

Is anyone going to be at Fields’ pro day?

Frankly, the kid has been on the NFL radar for so long that I’m not sure anyone can get any additional information at his pro day. The zoom chalk talk is what’s important for Fields. Perhaps he bombed his zoom sessions already? Or, maybe he aced them and teams are feigning disinterest?

 

[JetBlue]

5 hours ago, Skeptable said:

Trey lance

I can see Lance.  Kapernaek 2.0.  Let him sit behind Joey G. for a year and then move him for pick and Lance takes over.  I think he may have the highest ceiling of any quarterback including TL.   He also probably needs the most work, hence his need to sit a year. 

[rex-n-effect]

The dropoff in media coverage reminds me a lot of when the team drafted Darnold. Darnold was all people could talk about until around his pro day and then one of the other guys earned the media focus. It seems like every year there are a number of top QB choices there is a frontrunner and shortly after everybody presumes him the top pick the criticism begins and then somebody else becomes the presumptive frontrunner. It's the danger of being crowned king too early. Once the fanfare dies off people start scrutinizing more and the only new conversation to have is critical. Better to let somebody else take the media focus. 

As much as everybody assumed Wilson to be the pick after Chris Simms said something we don't know who is at the top of the board for the Jets or anybody else. 

[Grandy]

3 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Is anyone going to be at Fields’ pro day?

Frankly, the kid has been on the NFL radar for so long that I’m not sure anyone can get any additional information at his pro day. The zoom chalk talk is what’s important for Fields. Perhaps he bombed his zoom sessions already? Or, maybe he aced them and teams are feigning disinterest?

 

I feel like that might have something to do with it. Perhaps teams found something concerning.

[Larz]

What’s to hype?

no pro day yet 

[Sonny Werblin]

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/san-francisco-49ers-trade-nfl-draft-justin-fields-rj-young

 

[Averagejetsfan1421]

If he was white, he would be top 3 pick ?‍♂️

[Ken Schroy]

17 hours ago, Grandy said:

For weeks now we've heard zilch about Justin Fields anywhere near the top of the draft (including us). With the Gil Brandt tweet saying the highest teams are on him is just top 5 while on the low end Rnd 4, the report that Lynch and Shanahan are going to see Jones instead, and the absolute lack of talk about him at 2  I'm genuinely stumped. Fields isn't my favorite prospect, but the difference between him, Wilson, and Lawrence isn't incredibly large imo. He's got an extremely rare combination of talent with 4.4 legs, a great arm, and accuracy at all levels of the field (especially downfield). Regardless of his issues with 1 reads, and sometimes poor pocket management I can't see how his talents wouldn't still carry his stock high. Perhaps it's due to poor impressions in zoom meetings teams have had, maybe people have found serious flaws in his tape, idk.

I've watched a great deal of him, and I will acknowledge there's some alarming things such as mental, and mechanical hiccups. Couple that with some very bad decisions from refusing to let a play die  there is some room for concern, however it's not that huge to me. For all his hiccups they only amounted to 9 interceptions over a career, meanwhile Darnold did the same stuff and hit that pick total in both of his seasons on their own (and was QB 1 according to 90% of the population). On the other hand though, this narrative difference could be attributed to a stronger class this year, but I'm still confused because Fields is smart, and hard working. The guy can definitely improve on his issues.

It's just puzzling that the talk on Fields is mute nationally. I've yet to see anyone involved in the NFL really go to bat for him, in fact this board is by far the most pro-Fields place I've ever seen. Guys like Simms have gone over why they're concerned, but his abilities are so impressive that combined with his body of work I can't see why anyone would have him outside the top 3. This whole narrative has been shifted, with a large lack of analysis and reason as to why. Would very much like to hear more of why the NFL thinks this way more in depth, because this guy was regarded as 1b for the longest time. Just feel confused with the whole shift of things against Fields. 

Could someone start a Justin Fields NOT Confused thread? I'm lost.

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

16 minutes ago, Averagejetsfan1421 said:

If he was white, he would be top 3 pick ?‍♂️

[jamesr]

23 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Yeah, I wrote that - then actually saw what was going on. 

I think I was clearly wrong there.

 It certainly is starting to look like Jones is their guy.  I'm shocked by it - but it does seem to be the case.

Well, it's the "Confusion" thread for a reason, I guess.

I'd still have thought they'd attend every QB pro day to be 100% certain, so when I saw they were skipping Fields I wondered if that was simply a mistake.

I wonder if Felds will end up being "the guy who drops" in this year's draft? Or will Carolina grab him at 8 regardless and claim they "stole" him?

[nycdan]

For the guy who was nearly head-to-head with Lawrence all through his college career and really up until the championship game to suddenly be talked about like possibly the 5th QB drafted, there is something going on.  Teams didn't just start seeing something that wasn't there.  Teams do start a lot of other scrutiny around this time though (as in, once he declares for the draft).  Interviews, background checks, etc.  I think there's probably something putting a damper on him.  I won't speculate as to what it could be because I have no idea, but this feels like something more than a Zabruder game tape that just got uncovered showing him missing wide open receivers.  This kid is a stunningly good college QB.

[k-met57]

23 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I'll say that the situation around Fields just shows me I don't really know what to look for in a QB based of watching games and clips.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that trained eyes can spot "processing" issues much greater than I can, and he has a lot bigger issue with that thank the weekend warrior scouts thought. 

watch the clemson game where he threw like a buzzilion TD's...watch his throws...how many of them are to the open guy vs the guy he wants to throw to, and how many completions are his receivers making ridiculously athletic catches.

[k-met57]

look chances are he is going to murder his pro day. the same guy orchestrating the zack wilson pro day is going to do his, they are going to try and show what he can do in the shanahan system (picks 2, 3 and 4)....so lets see....the buzz may get louder after today!!

[nycdan]

1 minute ago, k-met57 said:

watch the clemson game where he threw like a buzzilion TD's...watch his throws...how many of them are to the open guy vs the guy he wants to throw to, and how many completions are his receivers making ridiculously athletic catches.

So I have and I did again.  What's odd is that the biggest knock on Fields is his 'locking on' to his first read.  This 56 yard TD he clearly changed targets and threw a pretty damn nice ball.  Maybe a yard short but his receiver didn't have to work too hard to bring it in.  

But wait...here's Fields running left and turning and throwing across to field to his right.  The same thing the internet just knobslobbered over when Wilson did it in a scripted practice versus a national semi-final.  Again, not his first read.

Now the long throws do sometimes look a little short like this last TD pass.

But it was a 52 yard pass and it worked.  

So what exactly is wrong with this kid, based on this game?

[k-met57]

13 minutes ago, nycdan said:

So I have and I did again.  What's odd is that the biggest knock on Fields is his 'locking on' to his first read.  This 56 yard TD he clearly changed targets and threw a pretty damn nice ball.  Maybe a yard short but his receiver didn't have to work too hard to bring it in.  

But wait...here's Fields running left and turning and throwing across to field to his right.  The same thing the internet just knobslobbered over when Wilson did it in a scripted practice versus a national semi-final.  Again, not his first read.

Now the long throws do sometimes look a little short like this last TD pass.

But it was a 52 yard pass and it worked.  

So what exactly is wrong with this kid, based on this game?

this was a pretty terrible throw in a key spot. i will find more later when i have some free time. the above....the throw that he makes to opposite hash, i dont know if that works in the NFL....u can see how much easier it is for Wilson to make that throw vs Fields who needs to set his body and throw.

 

[legler82]

On 3/28/2021 at 11:03 PM, Grandy said:

For weeks now we've heard zilch about Justin Fields anywhere near the top of the draft (including us). With the Gil Brandt tweet saying the highest teams are on him is just top 5 while on the low end Rnd 4, the report that Lynch and Shanahan are going to see Jones instead, and the absolute lack of talk about him at 2  I'm genuinely stumped. Fields isn't my favorite prospect, but the difference between him, Wilson, and Lawrence isn't incredibly large imo. He's got an extremely rare combination of talent with 4.4 legs, a great arm, and accuracy at all levels of the field (especially downfield). Regardless of his issues with 1 reads, and sometimes poor pocket management I can't see how his talents wouldn't still carry his stock high. Perhaps it's due to poor impressions in zoom meetings teams have had, maybe people have found serious flaws in his tape, idk.

I've watched a great deal of him, and I will acknowledge there's some alarming things such as mental, and mechanical hiccups. Couple that with some very bad decisions from refusing to let a play die  there is some room for concern, however it's not that huge to me. For all his hiccups they only amounted to 9 interceptions over a career, meanwhile Darnold did the same stuff and hit that pick total in both of his seasons on their own (and was QB 1 according to 90% of the population). On the other hand though, this narrative difference could be attributed to a stronger class this year, but I'm still confused because Fields is smart, and hard working. The guy can definitely improve on his issues.

It's just puzzling that the talk on Fields is mute nationally. I've yet to see anyone involved in the NFL really go to bat for him, in fact this board is by far the most pro-Fields place I've ever seen. Guys like Simms have gone over why they're concerned, but his abilities are so impressive that combined with his body of work I can't see why anyone would have him outside the top 3. This whole narrative has been shifted, with a large lack of analysis and reason as to why. Would very much like to hear more of why the NFL thinks this way more in depth, because this guy was regarded as 1b for the longest time. Just feel confused with the whole shift of things against Fields. 

It’s not that confusing; Warren Moon wasn’t drafted. 

[HawkeyeJet]

22 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

watch the clemson game where he threw like a buzzilion TD's...watch his throws...how many of them are to the open guy vs the guy he wants to throw to, and how many completions are his receivers making ridiculously athletic catches.

I'd ask you to watch most of Lawrence, Wilson or Jones and see if it's much different (it isn't).

[section314]

16 hours ago, Averagejetsfan1421 said:

If he was white, he would be top 3 pick ?‍♂️

Absolutely, no question. Couldn't possibly be anything else.?

[legler82]

23 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I'll say that the situation around Fields just shows me I don't really know what to look for in a QB based of watching games and clips.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that trained eyes can spot "processing" issues much greater than I can, and he has a lot bigger issue with that thank the weekend warrior scouts thought. 

Don’t doubt yourself; the same “experts” thought Mahomes was a product of the air raid, Josh Allen was too inaccurate for the NFL & Justin Herbert was, dare I say it “slow to process” [gasp].

[Shockwave]

Been following the Draft now over 15 years and Fields has probably confused me moreso then any prospect but the Debate between him and Wilson has certainly taught me a ton. 

I think I am understanding more and more why theres so much confusion on Fields. He just simply was not asked to do things NFL QB's do mentally. It doesn't mean he can't do it. It just means the NFL didn't see it. He also has a bit of a hitch in his release that doesn't hurt his accuracy but some may not like. 

For Zach Wilson he altered his throwing motion this year to add a ton more torque so he has this beautiful quick release with power. I think he's kinda still perfecting it so it's not always perfect - but when he does it correctly its exactly what the NFL wants. He's also playing in an NFL type scheme and he does things that an NFL QB would do in terms of progressions and beating certain defenses. 

What does this all mean - At least what I think I have learned?

Zach Wilson's team, family and school put him in the best position to succeed. Because of that he is just much easier to project to the NFL than Justin Fields. He may be years ahead of Fields mentally as of right now and NFL FO's value that highly. Perhaps Fields learns it all within one year and by year 2 he's better then Wilson but thats what they value. 

For the Flip Side Justin Fields was not put int he right position by his team and coaches despite him literally being perfect physically and deadly accurate. No one ever corrected that throwing motion since high school. Georgia started Fromm over him. He then had to transfer and be at a school with a college offense that doesn't show the NFL anything. How did OSU help prepare him for the NFL? Why would anyone want their kid going to be a OSU QB after this?

Fields has 4.3 speed. Crazy accuracy and really should be looked at like the perfect NFL QB as he's extremely smart too. But with him and Trey Lance your asking a team to pull a Ravens and have a limited offense for a few years while they learn the nuances of the NFL.

They still will be taken high but this is the reason why Zach Wilson and Mac Jones are likely going ahead of them. On the Flip side you see how amazing a team looks when the Josh Allen/Lamar Jacksons fall in the draft but get the support they need and flourish as time goes on. 

[legler82]

23 hours ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

My opinion is that he's probably bombing some interviews, which is surprising, but wouldn't show up to outsiders who aren't in those meetings. This is a league that does not know how to project franchise QBs reliably so it's possible he ends up as another one of those guys that are very good who mysteriously drops in the draft.

I doubt he’s interviews yet. Plus most of this Fields tear down started before the season ended.

[k-met57]

4 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I'd ask you to watch most of Lawrence, Wilson or Jones and see if it's much different (it isn't).

i was pretty down on Lawrence after watching the last few games of the year for him. His "fadeaway throw" under pressure is going to get him killed (and intercepted) in the NFL. The notion that he is a generational QB is way blown out of proportion IMO.

i haven't watched much of Wilson but i bet he has a top of crap tape too, no doubt about it. The reason i like Wilson is just the "untapped potential factor"....WHAT IF he is mahomes or rodgers  

Fields, i see him as a Cam Newton type of a QB...i dont think he will ever be a true thrower / gunslinger...i think he will always be like a throw and run guy in the NFL. thats a very system specific skill for me

i dont think any of these guys are better then Darnold + multiple first round picks or Darnold + Chase....but if i had to choose i would choose Wilson.

[Integrity28]

23 hours ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

My opinion is that he's probably bombing some interviews, which is surprising, but wouldn't show up to outsiders who aren't in those meetings. This is a league that does not know how to project franchise QBs reliably so it's possible he ends up as another one of those guys that are very good who mysteriously drops in the draft.

Rothlesberger, Josh Allen, Aaron Rodgers, Brees, etc.

If there’s one thing we’ve learned, it’s that the NFL more consistently picks the wrong QBs early. It may have something to do with early choices going to sh*tty teams, too.

Situation matters. (Not a Sam argument, just a fact.)

[legler82]

16 hours ago, Averagejetsfan1421 said:

If he was white, he would be top 3 pick ?‍♂️

Does race remain a factor in the evaluation of NFL quarterbacks?

“If you listen to the critiques of Black quarterbacks vs. white quarterbacks, there’s a different standard applied to Blacks,” said Brooks, one of the few analysts to rank Fields among his top two signal-callers in this draft. “Justin Fields and Trey Lance (both underclassmen) have been advised by draft experts to go back to school to gain more experience, yet we never hear those suggestions lobbed at their white counterparts. That observation is important because media narratives also shape how scouts and evaluators perceive prospects.”

[legler82]

10 minutes ago, section314 said:

Absolutely, no question. Couldn't possibly be anything else.?

It’s usually never just one thing but some believe “that” plays a part. 

[k-met57]

5 minutes ago, legler82 said:

Does race remain a factor in the evaluation of NFL quarterbacks?

“If you listen to the critiques of Black quarterbacks vs. white quarterbacks, there’s a different standard applied to Blacks,” said Brooks, one of the few analysts to rank Fields among his top two signal-callers in this draft. “Justin Fields and Trey Lance (both underclassmen) have been advised by draft experts to go back to school to gain more experience, yet we never hear those suggestions lobbed at their white counterparts. That observation is important because media narratives also shape how scouts and evaluators perceive prospects.”

is this a black thing or a dual threat thing? if you ask me Lamar Jacksons success has done a disservice to all dual thread QB's....he went to a team that was picking low in the first round, runs a system thats very unique, and is committed to him in that system. Good luck getting a team in the top 10 with that type of OL / RB talent + willing to change their system to fit a dual thread QB. History has shown, you have to be able to throw to win in the NFL.

[section314]

2 minutes ago, legler82 said:

Does race remain a factor in the evaluation of NFL quarterbacks?

“If you listen to the critiques of Black quarterbacks vs. white quarterbacks, there’s a different standard applied to Blacks,” said Brooks, one of the few analysts to rank Fields among his top two signal-callers in this draft. “Justin Fields and Trey Lance (both underclassmen) have been advised by draft experts to go back to school to gain more experience, yet we never hear those suggestions lobbed at their white counterparts. That observation is important because media narratives also shape how scouts and evaluators perceive prospects.”

Go up the food chain a bit higher that "draft experts." What was the first thing Pete Carroll advised Sanchez?

[legler82]

5 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Rothlesberger, Josh Allen, Aaron Rodgers, Brees, etc.

If there’s one thing we’ve learned, it’s that the NFL more consistently picks the wrong QBs early. It may have something to do with early choices going to sh*tty teams, too.

Situation matters. (Not a Sam argument, just a fact.)

Somehow QB evaluations have turned into who is most ready to be effective week 1 as opposed to who potentially will be the best player. It makes sense since the life span of FO personnel are relatively short especially if they pick the wrong QB. 

[legler82]

3 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

is this a black thing or a dual threat thing? if you ask me Lamar Jacksons success has done a disservice to all dual thread QB's....he went to a team that was picking low in the first round, runs a system thats very unique, and is committed to him in that system. Good luck getting a team in the top 10 with that type of OL / RB talent + willing to change their system to fit a dual thread QB. History has shown, you have to be able to throw to win in the NFL.

Fields avoids using his athleticism to a fault so I don’t even think of him and Lamar in the same light. Also like I said already; it’s never just one thing but multiple. Dual threat might be in the mix.

[section314]

2 minutes ago, legler82 said:

Somehow QB evaluations have turned into who is most ready to be effective week 1 as opposed to who potentially will be the best player. It makes sense since the life span of FO personnel are relatively short especially if they pick the wrong QB. 

That's why I found it very interesting last week as I was watching the Alabama Pro Day when the sideline reporter said he heard a group of scouts asking one another if they thought Mac Jones had reached his ceiling?

[nycdan]

3 minutes ago, legler82 said:

Somehow QB evaluations have turned into who is most ready to be effective week 1 as opposed to who potentially will be the best player. It makes sense since the life span of FO personnel are relatively short especially if they pick the wrong QB. 

I occasionally wonder what Aaron Rodgers career would have looked like if he had started right away, or even after just 1 year on the bench.  Would he have been closer to mortal.  Or would he have 3 more years of league-crushing stats putting him dangerously close to wiping out all of Brees/Brady's career records (regular season).