Jimmy Sexton's influence on the Jets

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

They're only meaningful in the sense that Fitzpatrick, today, is a better QB than Sam Darnold.

Fitz since 2015 > Geno, McCown, Darnold, Flacco, Falk, Siemian.

Next up, we'll see who wins more games and produces more, the 2021 Jets QB or 198 year old Fitz with the WFT, lol.

[Joejet]

2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

I’d be curious if there are any other GM’s and starting  QBs who share an agent.

There is a new thing called the internet where you can probably get your answer.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

46 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I actually don't agree with this.

I think, by the lack of real rumors re: interest, and the teams left without QB solved for next year, Darnold's quickest path to a new, big contract is here.

Where else will he have a shot to do that?

Maybe. He’ll probably have an average season, that shows he’s not completely terrible but not enough for the Jets to sign him long term. He would probably still only get a 2 year deal on the open market. 
I think his situation is exactly like Trubisky. 

[More Cowbell]

6 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

They're only meaningful in the sense that Fitzpatrick, today, is a better QB than Sam Darnold.

Anyone who thinks Sam Darnold is collecting big checks at 38 from this league is out of their mind.

I give guys like Fitz, Brees, Brady a ton of credit for playing well enough late in their careers to earn a check but to say Fitz is looked at the same way a team would look at Darnold is just not being truthful. Nobody, not even when he was on Miami has ever looked at him as anything more than a place holder. Nobody I bringing in Darnold as a place holder. He will be brought in to be a starter.  The question was would Darnold start over Fitz. Yes, he would.  Any team that brings him in will give him a chance to start. Any team that brings in Fitz is purely  buying an insurance policy.  

[More Cowbell]

15 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I don't think it's going to happen, either.  I'm simply saying that playing next season for the Jets is, as of today, the most efficient way to get to that contract.

At this point, it's unlikely he starts anywhere else in 2021, so the best case scenario for him to quick money is putting together an adequate season here that can sell more people on the "it was Gase's fault" nonsense, and get him paid based on future hope.  It's sort of exactly how Sanchez got paid, no?

If his best path to another contract is here, there is no path

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Nobody is bringing in Darnold as a place holder. He will be brought in to be a starter. 

Just like Mark Sanch.....oh, right.  

Darnold will almost assuredly be a backup wherever he ends up in 2021.  

His only real chance to start in 2021 is here, with us, frankly.  If we retain him and the rookie QB either isn't picked or isn't ready.

5 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Any team that brings him in will give him a chance to start. Any team that brings in Fitz is purely  buying an insurance policy.  

Interesting then that no one has as yet traded for Darnold to have him start, and Fitz was signed to start for the WFT.

Keep in mind, we're also comparing a 23 year old #3 overall pick vs. a 38 year old 7th rounder.

[slimjasi]

1) Guys like Sexton have a bunch of clients, don't they? I'm sure this sort of conflict happens all the time. 

2) I presume Sexton wants what is best for Sam - as I have argued repeatedly, what's best for Sam is to get a fresh start somewhere else and my honest guess would be that Sam and Sexton both agree with that sentiment. 

3) Do we know that Sexton won't be representing Wilson? 

4) The Jets just fired Gase, who not only was represented by Sexton but also supposedly had a very strong working relationship with JD. I think that fact alone is a major hole in this theory. 

5) Douglas signed a six year contract with the Jets. This is the defining job of his NFL career. I just think his priority is to the Jets over Sexton. Bottom line: Sexton is replaceable, an NFL GM gig probably isn't. 

[doitny]

2 hours ago, Pac said:

No they wont..  about half the fans want them to run it back and trade down.

Drafting the twink at 2 would be a gut punch.

but are you reading what they say?

half the base only wants sam for 2 reasons.

1. if they cant get an 2nd rd pick for him

or

2. if they cant get a big Miami like trade for 2OA.

i bet if you ask them if they could trade sam for a 2nd rd pick and be stuck a 2OA most of them would say bye to sam and draft Wilson.

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

This isnt a conspiracy. It's just a thought. Darnold is still on the roster. Half the board seems to think he's still good/salvageable/still should be here...so Douglas has that going for him as well if he decides to keep him.

half the fanbase wont be able to save JDs job. the other half and the media will kill JD. who even though say nice things about sam have all said he has to go.

with a new QB you get a pass on this year. hes a rookie and he learning the ropes. sam will get no such pass.

and dont rule out the media mob. almost every one says draft wilson, trade sam. if JD goes against that and gets it wrong then he will look like the only guy who thought Sam should stay. hes done.

its safer for JDs job to get a new QB and get rid of sam.

BTW i believe we had a poll about wether we should keep sam or draft wilson and if i remember right it was more like 3/4 want to draft Wilson. its just those 25% that want sam keep starting threads and makes it seam like there are more of them.

 

[More Cowbell]

8 minutes ago, Samtorobby47 said:

Maybe. He’ll probably have an average season, that shows he’s not completely terrible but not enough for the Jets to sign him long term. He would probably still only get a 2 year deal on the open market. 
I think his situation is exactly like Trubisky. 

Trubisky actually had some offensive  talent around him

[slimjasi]

31 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Fitz since 2015 > Geno, McCown, Darnold, Flacco, Falk, Siemian.

Sad but true

[ZachEY]

26 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

If his best path to another contract is here, there is no path

We agree.

[More Cowbell]

16 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Just like Mark Sanch.....oh, right.  

Darnold will almost assuredly be a backup wherever he ends up in 2021.  

His only real chance to start in 2021 is here, with us, frankly.  If we retain him and the rookie QB either isn't picked or isn't ready.

Interesting then that no one has as yet traded for Darnold to have him start, and Fitz was signed to start for the WFT.

Keep in mind, we're also comparing a 23 year old #3 overall pick vs. a 38 year old 7th rounder.

You actually  think the situation with Sanchez and Darnold is the same? Sanchez played behind the best OL in the league, had Braylon Edwards, Santonio Holmes, Shone Green, and Dustin Keller.

 

[Pac]

1 hour ago, Adoni Beast said:

Half? Noway. Quarter maybe. The rest want to draft someone, not necessarily Wilson. 

But I’d say a majority of all Jets fans are over Samchez.

A lot of hate for Sam I'll give you that..

Again all I think the Sam "supporters" would like to see is 1 more year and a trade down.

If he sucks then there would be a treasure trove of draft capital to address the situation next offseason.

If he succeeds, we're set up for the next decade.

[Savage69]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I would imagine 50% of a GM’s job is cultivating relationships with agents, though.

Unless it's Watsons GM which would be cultivating massage therapists that give him the happy ending he wants and not sue him.. 

[Adoni Beast]

2 minutes ago, Pac said:

A lot of hate for Sam I'll give you that..

Again all I think the Sam "supporters" would like to see is 1 more year and a trade down.

If he sucks then there would be a treasure trove of draft capital to address the situation next offseason.

If he succeeds, we're set up for the next decade.

My counter

• We are in prime position in a great draft class to pick one WITHOUT trading up.

• What you get in a trade down this year cancels itself out by trading up next year for a QB. Zero sum.

• Next QB draft class currently stinks. Yes another Burrow or Wilson could come out of nowhere...but they also might not.

• Sam’s floor has been so low, that his ceiling is that much lower. Yes he can and probably will improve. But by how much? Let‘s say he’s Andy Dalton? That’s what you want?

• Sam’s a good kid and talented, but for him to truly get better and become a long term starter it will take years now in 1 system on same team. Its not a one training camp fix, so don’t expect the moon if he stays.

• Sam’s journey to talent realization won’t be cost affordable on a non-rookie deal. We’re going to pay this guy over 20mil/year be keeping him past 2021 to see if he can MAYBE become a top 18-20 starter in the league? Just take me to Sizzler and tell me it’s Le Cirque.

• Sam sucks...currently. His fault Jets fault, its irrelevant. For Sam to UNSUCK, it will take time...and $. Neither of which we should waste.

Thanks for having me, where can I validate my parking?

[Columbia Jet Fan]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

The "unexplainable reason" is kickbacks.  Massive kickbacks.

Let's say you're in the Sexton/Darnold inner circle.  You know that if the Jets let Darnold go, he becomes a back-up somewhere, and likely never gets the big contract, because, unlike a bunch of wishful Jets fans, you know he just doesn't have it.  He's likely out of the league in 3-4 years and two teams.

The alternative, convince one person, Woody Johnson, that Darnold can be salvaged if we just keep adding talent.  How much of that 120M you just scammed from Woody Johnson would you offer Douglas to make this happen?  Most GM's fail anyway, so do you really turn away a massive kickback because you believe you're going to fix the Jets and get another contract here?

By no means is this an endorsement of the conspiracy.  But, it's far from "unexplainable."

So Douglas - who makes more than $3mm per year - is going to give Darnold $120mm - which if he fails - will probably seal his fate as the Jets GM and seriously tarnish his ability to get another GM job. On that contract, Sexton will receive a max of 3% (so lets say in this insane scenario we guarantee the whole $120mm) as per NFL/agent rules - Sexton kicks some back to his boy Joe D. Hey we just made a whopping $3.6mm - Joe why don't you jeapordize your entire career - plus risk your entire contract with the Jets (I'm guessing this sort of bad boy act would make his existing contract voidable) for me splitting this fee with you 50/50. Sexton gets $1.8mm, JD gets $1.8mm. Somehow they need to hide this money - which likely means they are also committing to tax fraud, in addition to making them susceptible to a lifetime NFL ban + potential legal action. All that when they have already "made it" for less than either of their annual income? Are you nuts? Unless Sam is kicking in some money also which again would be basically impossible unless he is doing it with after-tax dollars/crypto. 

[ZachEY]

2 minutes ago, Columbia Jet Fan said:

So Douglas - who makes more than $3mm per year - is going to give Darnold $120mm - which if he fails - will probably seal his fate as the Jets GM and seriously tarnish his ability to get another GM job. On that contract, Sexton will receive a max of 3% (so lets say in this insane scenario we guarantee the whole $120mm) as per NFL/agent rules - Sexton kicks some back to his boy Joe D. Hey we just made a whopping $3.6mm - Joe why don't you jeapordize your entire career - plus risk your entire contract with the Jets (I'm guessing this sort of bad boy act would make his existing contract voidable) for me splitting this fee with you 50/50. Sexton gets $1.8mm, JD gets $1.8mm. Somehow they need to hide this money - which likely means they are also committing to tax fraud, in addition to making them susceptible to a lifetime NFL ban + potential legal action. All that when they have already "made it" for less than either of their annual income? Are you nuts? Unless Sam is kicking in some money also which again would be basically impossible unless he is doing it with after-tax dollars/crypto. 

Obviously Darnold would be in on the deal, were this to happen.  He'd be getting a cut of Darnold's money, not of Sexton's.  Of course you don't do it for 1.8M.  What about for 10M?

[Warfish]

28 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

You actually  think the situation with Sanchez and Darnold is the same?

I think that just like Sanchez, and Geno, Darnold will not be an NFL starting QB when he first leaves the Jets. 

He will have to go in somewhere else as a backup to start with.

 

 

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, Joejet said:

There is a new thing called the internet where you can probably get your answer.

That must be the new internet 

[Savage69]

13 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

My counter

• We are in prime position in a great draft class to pick one WITHOUT trading up.

• What you get in a trade down this year cancels itself out by trading up next year for a QB. Zero sum.

• Sam sucks...currently. His fault Jets fault, its irrelevant. For Sam to UNSUCK, it will take time...and $. Neither of which we should waste.

Thanks for having me, where can I validate my parking?

For most people marriage stops the sucking problem..

[slimjasi]

26 minutes ago, Pac said:

A lot of hate for Sam I'll give you that..

Again all I think the Sam "supporters" would like to see is 1 more year and a trade down.

If he sucks then there would be a treasure trove of draft capital to address the situation next offseason.

If he succeeds, we're set up for the next decade.

Depends on how you define "succeeds." Is he league average? Is he a little better than league average? Is he suddenly awesome? The most likely outcome of Sam returning is that the results are mixed and there is no clear path forward - half the board wants him extended and half the board wants to draft his replacement, except this time, we aren't picking #2 overall. 

The other thing is, don't you think it's best for Sam to go somewhere else? Let's say we do what you want. We pass on "the twink" and trade down with a team like Carolina. We take Chase/Smith/Waddle/Slater (assuming Pitts is gone) with the Carolina pick. Cool. Now fast-forward to the first home game, 2021. Sam goes 3 and out on the first drive. Late in the first half he throws a dumb interception in the red zone. Imagine the boos? Is he ready for that? If you are one of these guys who thinks the Jets have stunted his development, don't you also think he needs time to build his confidence back up? Doesn't he need to sit for a while and figure things out? I just think the pressure on him will be enormous in year 4 (with a rookie coach who has no attachments to him) and we will actually be setting him up to fail. 

It just feels like you Darnold guys are trying to force something that's not a fit anymore. 

[More Cowbell]

23 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I think that just like Sanchez, and Geno, Darnold will not be an NFL starting QB when he first leaves the Jets. 

He will have to go in somewhere else as a backup to start with.

 

 

There were no excuses for Sanchez and Geno to suck. Are you actually saying Darnold was in the same situation? 

[oatmeal]

40 minutes ago, Pac said:

A lot of hate for Sam I'll give you that..

Again all I think the Sam "supporters" would like to see is 1 more year and a trade down.

If he sucks then there would be a treasure trove of draft capital to address the situation next offseason.

If he succeeds, we're set up for the next decade.

Thank god this isn’t happening and that scrub will be jettisoned.
 

You guys can now cheer for Darnold on his next team as he reaches his career backup ceiling ?

[Bruce Harper]

2 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Thank god this isn’t happening and that scrub will be jettisoned.
 

You guys can now cheer for Darnold on his next team as he reaches his career backup ceiling ?

I actually think he may do okay somewhere else but I don't think he can be a top 10 guy.  And it's tough to win championships unless you swing for the fences at QB.

[mfmartin]

There were no excuses for Sanchez and Geno to suck. Are you actually saying Darnold was in the same situation? 

Geno Smiths top receiver was Jeremy Kerley for a whooping 523 yards.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

I give guys like Fitz, Brees, Brady a ton of credit for playing well enough late in their careers to earn a check but to say Fitz is looked at the same way a team would look at Darnold is just not being truthful. Nobody, not even when he was on Miami has ever looked at him as anything more than a place holder. Nobody I bringing in Darnold as a place holder. He will be brought in to be a starter.  The question was would Darnold start over Fitz. Yes, he would.  Any team that brings him in will give him a chance to start. Any team that brings in Fitz is purely  buying an insurance policy.  

Some of you guys are just delusional about Sam. I'm sorry. 

Fitz was 8000 times better than Sam last year. Any team bringing in Sam is bringing him in with the hope of developing his raw talent to help him reach his potential. He's damaged goods right now. The best he can hope for is a QB competition. Nobody is watching Sam's 2020 tape and thinking "Yep, that's our starter next year." The best he can hope for is that they see the physical talent and want a shot at developing it. 

[oatmeal]

30 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Depends on how you define "succeeds." Is he league average? Is he a little better than league average? Is he suddenly awesome? The most likely outcome of Sam returning is that the results are mixed and there is no clear path forward - half the board wants him extended and half the board wants to draft his replacement, except this time, we aren't picking #2 overall. 

The other thing is, don't you think it's best for Sam to go somewhere else? Let's say we do what you want. We pass on "the twink" and trade down with a team like Carolina. We take Chase/Smith/Waddle/Slater (assuming Pitts is gone) with the Carolina pick. Cool. Now fast-forward to the first home game, 2021. Sam goes 3 and out on the first drive. Late in the first half he throws a dumb interception in the red zone. Imagine the boos? Is he ready for that? If you are one of these guys who thinks the Jets have stunted his development, don't you also think he needs time to build his confidence back up? Doesn't he need to sit for a while and figure things out? I just think the pressure on him will be enormous in year 4 (with a rookie coach who has no attachments to him) and we will actually be setting him up to fail. 

It just feels like you Darnold guys are trying to force something that's not a fit anymore. 

No the logic around here seems to be:

Let your expiring contract, scrub, QB finish out his contract and the following year an adequate replacement will just fall out the sky into our laps. - Why?

Well because Adam Gase and “it wasn’t fair for Sam” ?‍♂️??

 

 

[Philc1]

5 hours ago, Matt39 said:

It's been well documented that Joe Douglas and Sam Darnold both employ Sexton as their representation. Thoughts on how much influence this could potentially have at 2?

Just total gut feeling that the Jets are not locked into a QB at 2 and there's some serious internal (and external push) to keep Darnold. This would obviously be bad and a total conflict of interest...but also worth noting that the two big signings the Jets made this offseason - (Davis and Lawson) are both represented by the same agency as Darnold and Douglas. Maybe we need to connect the dots? 

JD is laser locked onto Zach Wilson.  I look forward to you souring on Wilson in about 6 months after his first injury 

[Philc1]

19 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Some of you guys are just delusional about Sam. I'm sorry. 

Fitz was 8000 times better than Sam last year. Any team bringing in Sam is bringing him in with the hope of developing his raw talent to help him reach his potential. He's damaged goods right now. The best he can hope for is a QB competition. Nobody is watching Sam's 2020 tape and thinking "Yep, that's our starter next year." The best he can hope for is that they see the physical talent and want a shot at developing it. 

We had no roster and Adam Gase the dolt decided to construct the offensive gameplan around a 40 year old running back who couldn’t outrun most of the people on this messageboard.  No one is playing well under those circumstances 

[SayNoToDMC]

None. Were locked into a QB at #2. There's little to no doubt SF called us first about that trade package and we had no interest in biting

[varjet]

I think it is fairly certain there will be three QBs available at 3 that would provide the Jets with better QB play than what they have now, at a much lower cost over the next five years.  In addition to the re-boot, etc.

It is also possible that it could be crazy to put that QB out there with this team next year, but it would still be worth having the rookie sit for a year.  There is really no excuse why the roster would not be ready for the new QB next year. 

So we should take a chance at one of those QBs, don't worry about playing him, start Darnold, Morgan or someone else, trade Darnold for a 3rd this year/2nd next year, try and fix and flip Darnold if we can't get that trade now, and move forward.

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Just like Mark Sanch.....oh, right.  

Darnold will almost assuredly be a backup wherever he ends up in 2021.  

His only real chance to start in 2021 is here, with us, frankly.  If we retain him and the rookie QB either isn't picked or isn't ready.

Interesting then that no one has as yet traded for Darnold to have him start, and Fitz was signed to start for the WFT.

Keep in mind, we're also comparing a 23 year old #3 overall pick vs. a 38 year old 7th rounder.

Incidentally, I actually think there is a chance that Sam's career arc mimics Fitzpatrick's. I could totally see Sam becoming a backup for a few years, bouncing around the league, and then shining once a starter goes down and he is significantly older and more experienced (e.g. 2011 Fitz or 2015 Fitz) 

[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

We had no roster and Adam Gase the dolt decided to construct the offensive gameplan around a 40 year old running back who couldn’t outrun most of the people on this messageboard.  No one is playing well under those circumstances 

There's a meaningful gap between "not playing well" and "worst in the league for 3 years." that the Sam stans continue to ignore.

[slimjasi]

5 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

We had no roster and Adam Gase the dolt decided to construct the offensive gameplan around a 40 year old running back who couldn’t outrun most of the people on this messageboard.  No one is playing well under those circumstances 

[Philc1]

5 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

There's a meaningful gap between "not playing well" and "worst in the league for 3 years." that the Sam stans continue to ignore.

Enjoy Sam Bradford Jr