Mims vs Moore is pretty gross

[AFJF]

 

[T0mShane]

Elijah Moore isn’t even the best tiny receiving Moore drafted this year. Rondale Moore is already light years better.

[AFJF]

9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Elijah Moore isn’t even the best tiny receiving Moore drafted this year. Rondale Moore is already light years better.

Loved Rondale coming out but let's be honest here, the Jets have seemingly made zero effort, whether it's on the coaches or the QB, to get the ball in his hands in space.  Not sure if or how much it has changed, but NextGen a couple of weeks ago had Moore getting more separation than any receiver on the roster and it wasn't even close.  Was averaging over 4 yards of separation.  How you don't get the ball in his hands with that being the case is beyond me.

 

[Irish Jet]

13 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Elijah Moore isn’t even the best tiny receiving Moore drafted this year. Rondale Moore is already light years better.

 Better QB.

[Augustiniak]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Elijah Moore isn’t even the best tiny receiving Moore drafted this year. Rondale Moore is already light years better.

This coaching staff seems to do more than just play favorites - they act as if they have the clout and gravitas to be above questioning of their decisions.  I can’t understand why they love moore so much and hate mims so much. Also, you’d think at some point they’d begin to wonder if there’s some merit to what everyone is saying about getting mims involved - in light of their first quarter futility.  They’re coming across as entitled know it alls who think they’re above reproach because daddy is a big deal.

[Augustiniak]

5 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Loved Rondale coming out but let's be honest here, the Jets have seemingly made zero effort, whether it's on the coaches or the QB, to get the ball in his hands in space.  Not sure if or how much it has changed, but NextGen a couple of weeks ago had Moore getting more separation than any receiver on the roster and it wasn't even close.  Was averaging over 4 yards of separation.  How you don't get the ball in his hands with that being the case is beyond me.

 

You watch tom Brady, even at this age, most throws the ball is out quickly.  He lets the wrs make the yards.  Then when defenses think it’s a short pass, bam, long one.  The play designs for wilson usually call for him to hold the ball too long.  Quick slants, get the ball out, move the chains.  That’s what they need in the first quarter.

[BCJet]

Its the coaches job to get the ball into the hands of playmakers - teams manufacture touches for players all the time, we just have not done that so far.  

Mims needs to play more and be used on slants, back shoulder throws and to put pressure on the defense with the ability to get deep.  

Moore should get at least 2 bubble screens per game (and NOT in the way we did it sunday) and then when the defense starts to cheat up on him, we take a couple downfield shots to him.  

[FidelioJet]

15 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

You watch tom Brady, even at this age, most throws the ball is out quickly.  He lets the wrs make the yards.  Then when defenses think it’s a short pass, bam, long one.  The play designs for wilson usually call for him to hold the ball too long.  Quick slants, get the ball out, move the chains.  That’s what they need in the first quarter.

Our WR's have to catch the ball on 3rd downs in the first quarter for that to happen.

[Web72]

I’m glad to see this comparison. I was wondering about the amount of snaps vs the production. 
 

For all the pre season hype about Moore, the guy has been invisible. He belongs in the slot not outside. #freedenzel 

[JustInFudge]

Yes but if you gave him a test of the playbook, he’d Ace it.  Hell, he could write it verbatim, off the top of his dome piece! 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, Web72 said:

I’m glad to see this comparison. I was wondering about the amount of snaps vs the production. 
 

For all the pre season hype about Moore, the guy has been invisible. He belongs in the slot not outside. #freedenzel 

Maybe this has something to do with the jets not scoring in the first halves.

[68JET11]

All they kept telling us was that this new offense was supposed to be light years better than what Gase put on the field. So far it looks the same to me. No spread formations, everyone is bunched up together, no misdirection.... NOTHING. ZW was supposed to have come from this type of system. He does not seem comfortable at all.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that no defense is fooled by this offense. Yet when I watch opposing offenses I see, slants, screens, back shoulder throws, etc, etc, etc...

LaFleur needs help and it's clear that Saleh should recognize that. It's now 5 games in and there doesn't seem to be any progression forward for this offense. That's the alarming thing right now. I would think that week after week of practices, you'd get more of a rhythm going...

[Maynard13]

13 minutes ago, Web72 said:

I’m glad to see this comparison. I was wondering about the amount of snaps vs the production. 
 

For all the pre season hype about Moore, the guy has been invisible. He belongs in the slot not outside. #freedenzel 

Definitely but we have Crowder. Moore will take over the slot next year. 

[The Crusher]

Oh come guys, as soon as Mims earns his playing time in practice he will get more targets. Obviously our coaching  staff has a plan and Mims catching 75% of the balls thrown  to him for close to the highest yards per catch in the NFL obviously isn’t part of that plan. Trust the system. 

[Beaver]

Kind of hard to judge any receiver when the QB is dirting screens and 5 yard outs.

[The Crusher]

5 minutes ago, Beaver said:

Kind of hard to judge any receiver when the QB is dirting screens and 5 yard outs.

Yes until they drop the ones he doesn’t. 

[Gastineau Lives]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Elijah Moore isn’t even the best tiny receiving Moore drafted this year. Rondale Moore is already light years better.

Are you comparing the Cardinals offense to the Jets offense? You have to be, no?

[oatmeal]

17 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Oh come guys, as soon as Mims earns his playing time in practice he will get more targets. Obviously our coaching  staff has a plan and Mims catching 75% of the balls thrown  to him for close to the highest yards per catch in the NFL obviously isn’t part of that plan. Trust the system. 

Apparently Kyle Shannahan has his own version of mims in SF (talented young WR who’s in the dog house) Brandon Aiyuk.

49er beat and fans have been trying to figure out for a while now why Brandon don’t get the playing time and being that a large portion of our staff came from there, it’s all staring to make sense to me why Mims is being treated this way 

?‍♂️

[oatmeal]

16 minutes ago, Beaver said:

Kind of hard to judge any receiver when the QB is dirting screens and 5 yard outs.

Zach throws a dart = drop

WR finally gets separation = blown coverage sack or miss fire by the QB

It’s a all around cluster f***

[The Crusher]

32 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Apparently Kyle Shannahan has his own version of mims in SF (talented young WR who’s in the dog house) Brandon Aiyuk.

49er beat and fans have been trying to figure out for a while now why Brandon don’t get the playing time and being that a large portion of our staff came from there, it’s all staring to make sense to me why Mims is being treated this way 

?‍♂️

Maybe it’s getting to be better understood? But certainly doesn’t  make sense. At least the situation here with our WR getting the majority of the snaps playing dramatically underwhelming. 

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

Loved Rondale coming out but let's be honest here, the Jets have seemingly made zero effort, whether it's on the coaches or the QB, to get the ball in his hands in space.  Not sure if or how much it has changed, but NextGen a couple of weeks ago had Moore getting more separation than any receiver on the roster and it wasn't even close.  Was averaging over 4 yards of separation.  How you don't get the ball in his hands with that being the case is beyond me.

 

That's on the QB. If he's open and not getting the ball, either the QB doesn't  trust him or just is not looking his way

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

You watch tom Brady, even at this age, most throws the ball is out quickly.  He lets the wrs make the yards.  Then when defenses think it’s a short pass, bam, long one.  The play designs for wilson usually call for him to hold the ball too long.  Quick slants, get the ball out, move the chains.  That’s what they need in the first quarter.

I don't  believe that.  The QB is ultimately the guy that decides when the ball needs to cone out. The coaches just put the options in front of him. Brady won multiple  SB's using a short passing game so he knows the value of getting the ball into the hands of play makers. 

[Greenbloodblitz]

I'm sorry man I'm not being negative or tryin to derail the thread but this argument is ridiculous. There are just way too many variables.

We are not talking about two guys benching 225 on the same bench on the same day and let's see who puts up more. We're talking about situational football, at different times of the game, against different teams in different weather.

The argument is flimsy to say the least. Have them run the same exact three routes against the same DB five times in a row with the same exact throw and then tell me the stats.

I understand making threads to start conversation and for the sake of argument and it's healthy and I'm totally down. I also understand the where is Mims argument. Well obviously they're not just making an example out of a guy who's a great player right? There must be something the coaching staff is displeased with that's keeping him from getting on the field. Is it possible he considers himself a number one wide receiver and he's pissed off that they paid Corey Davis? Maybe he's still catching up due to injuries?

Maybe he has a bad attitude, maybe they expect more from him, maybe he thinks he's great already and they're trying to humble him? Maybe he's not a team player?

Obviously they're rotating the WR's just like the RB's. Dependent upon situational football and whose number is called, I don't think you can rank anybody five games into the season. You have to save that till the season is over to see who made their splash.

That being said I'm a Jets fan and I want all of these guys to be successful and that's the bottom line.

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, 68JET11 said:

All they kept telling us was that this new offense was supposed to be light years better than what Gase put on the field. So far it looks the same to me. No spread formations, everyone is bunched up together, no misdirection.... NOTHING. ZW was supposed to have come from this type of system. He does not seem comfortable at all.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that no defense is fooled by this offense. Yet when I watch opposing offenses I see, slants, screens, back shoulder throws, etc, etc, etc...

LaFleur needs help and it's clear that Saleh should recognize that. It's now 5 games in and there doesn't seem to be any progression forward for this offense. That's the alarming thing right now. I would think that week after week of practices, you'd get more of a rhythm going...

no argument here.  i'm still willing to give the benefit of the doubt since this is still only the 5th game they've played.  but we've seen this movie many times over the past 10 seasons.  this team has made a habit of not coming out of the gate fast.  they do make soe good adjustments at the half but the whole purpose of have an offensive coordinator is to try and determine what match ups win at the game's beginning.  after being down 2 or 3 scores is too late.  and wilson isn't helping himself by not throwing quickly.  of course some of that again goes back to the oc because the run game just hasn't been that consistent.

[SAR I]

SAR I

[AFJF]

14 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

That's on the QB. If he's open and not getting the ball, either the QB doesn't  trust him or just is not looking his way

This is what I mean.  Are they running plays where he's consistently the 3rd/4th option and the pass pro isn't good enough to let Zach get to that point or is Zach not seeing it?  We can assume, but we don't know.  

 

[Gastineau Lives]

6 minutes ago, SAR I said:

SAR I

Ok, we get it, you're a size queen (you've used this photo twice for two different players in two different threads)

 @T0mShane was once in love with Kelvin Benjamin and thought Brandin Cooks sucked because he was similarly afflicted.

[playtowinthegame]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

Loved Rondale coming out but let's be honest here, the Jets have seemingly made zero effort, whether it's on the coaches or the QB, to get the ball in his hands in space.  Not sure if or how much it has changed, but NextGen a couple of weeks ago had Moore getting more separation than any receiver on the roster and it wasn't even close.  Was averaging over 4 yards of separation.  How you don't get the ball in his hands with that being the case is beyond me.

Mike LaFleur trying to force his offensive roster to fit the offense he envisioned instead of building an offense that fits the strengths of the roster he was dealt. 

[More Cowbell]

14 minutes ago, AFJF said:

This is what I mean.  Are they running plays where he's consistently the 3rd/4th option and the pass pro isn't good enough to let Zach get to that point or is Zach not seeing it?  We can assume, but we don't know.  

 

The pass protection has been holding up a lot better now than the first 3 games. I think Zack is not reading the defenses well. 

[AFJF]

8 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Mike LaFleur trying to force his offensive roster to fit the offense he envisioned instead of building an offense that fits the strengths of the roster he was dealt. 

This was a concern I had just as the season was about to kick off.  We'd spent all off-season talking about how insanely deep this WR group is, but we were seeing TONS of 2 TE and 2 RB groupings with 3 WRs.  Was wondering if they didn't want to tip their hand before openging things up and giving Zach a ton of targets to choose from.

If I'm a DC, I"m thanking LeFleur for not forcing me to have to defend some combo of Davis, Moore, Mims, Crowder, Cole, Berrios but instead getting to plan for Davis, Cole, Moore, Griffin, Kroft.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, AFJF said:

This was a concern I had just as the season was about to kick off.  We'd spent all off-season talking about how insanely deep this WR group is, but we were seeing TONS of 2 TE and 2 RB groupings with 3 WRs.  Was wondering if they didn't want to tip their hand before openging things up and giving Zach a ton of targets to choose from.

If I'm a DC, I"m thanking LeFleur for not forcing me to have to defend some combo of Davis, Moore, Mims, Crowder, Cole, Berrios but instead getting to plan for Davis, Cole, Moore, Griffin, Kroft.

Well we thought mims would be an integral part of the offense.  Remove him and you lose a lot of size and speed.  There’s no TEs.  Moore has sucked.  Cole seems like a jag.  So this coaching staff doesn’t seem to have assembled much offensive weaponry for them.  

[FactsOnly]

Actually they’ve both flashed 

its on Clown Salad and LaFloor to not only put these guys in position but develop them as football players 

[JetBlue]

1 hour ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Are you comparing the Cardinals offense to the Jets offense? You have to be, no?

Have you watched the Cardinals this year?  It is true that their offense is light years better than ours, but that doesn't change the fact that Rondale Moore is a dramatic playmaker with the ball in his hands.  He returns punts, runs plays out of the back field, catches screen passes, plays the slot and his explosiveness and quickness is evident on every play.  Elijah is no where near as explosive as Rondale.   Even so, the Cardinals are using him much more effectively than Jets are using their Moore.  At some point we have to really start taking a hard look at this coaching staff.  I mean Mims and Moore are probably the most talented offensive players on the team, along with Michael Carter and they have like 6 or 7 receptions between the two of them??? On a 1 - 4 team?   

All I know is we better start seeing both of them on the field a lot more in the weeks to come or it prove this staff is in over it's head.   

[Gastineau Lives]

2 hours ago, AFJF said:

Loved Rondale coming out but let's be honest here, the Jets have seemingly made zero effort, whether it's on the coaches or the QB, to get the ball in his hands in space.  Not sure if or how much it has changed, but NextGen a couple of weeks ago had Moore getting more separation than any receiver on the roster and it wasn't even close.  Was averaging over 4 yards of separation.  How you don't get the ball in his hands with that being the case is beyond me.

 

 

1 minute ago, JetBlue said:

Have you watched the Cardinals this year?  It is true that their offense is light years better than ours, but that doesn't change the fact that Rondale Moore is a dramatic playmaker with the ball in his hands.  He returns punts, runs plays out of the back field, catches screen passes, plays the slot and his explosiveness and quickness is evident on every play.  Elijah is no where near as explosive as Rondale.   Even so, the Cardinals are using him much more effectively than Jets are using their Moore.  At some point we have to really start taking a hard look at this coaching staff.  I mean Mims and Moore are probably the most talented offensive players on the team, along with Michael Carter and they have like 6 or 7 receptions between the two of them??? On a 1 - 4 team?   

All I know is we better start seeing both of them on the field a lot more in the weeks to come or it prove this staff is in over it's head.   

 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, JetBlue said:

Have you watched the Cardinals this year?  It is true that their offense is light years better than ours, but that doesn't change the fact that Rondale Moore is a dramatic playmaker with the ball in his hands.  He returns punts, runs plays out of the back field, catches screen passes, plays the slot and his explosiveness and quickness is evident on every play.  Elijah is no where near as explosive as Rondale.   Even so, the Cardinals are using him much more effectively than Jets are using their Moore.  At some point we have to really start taking a hard look at this coaching staff.  I mean Mims and Moore are probably the most talented offensive players on the team, along with Michael Carter and they have like 6 or 7 receptions between the two of them??? On a 1 - 4 team?   

All I know is we better start seeing both of them on the field a lot more in the weeks to come or it prove this staff is in over it's head.   

The coaches would rather use berrios.  Other teams scheme to get their best guy the ball.