The last 2 SB losers…

[Integrity28]

Were loaded on offense, but couldn’t protect their QB. 

[Jetty]

Gotta secure the trenches. Bengals easily win this game if Macaulay Culkin had time to throw.

[BigRy56]

Ikem Ekwonu coming right up at 4…

[doitny]

Bengals dont even get to this game if they draft OL in rd 1. 

[TuscanyTile2]

33 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

Ikem Ekwonu coming right up at 4…

2 minutes ago, doitny said:

Bengals dont even get to this game if they draft OL in rd 1. 

I have a solution.  Draft Ekwonu, Thibs, and Burks all at #4.

[Peace Frog]

34 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

Ikem Ekwonu coming right up at 4…

This. 

[Peace Frog]

4 minutes ago, doitny said:

Bengals dont even get to this game if they draft OL in rd 1. 

There is no Jaamar Chase in this draft. 

[RutgersJetFan]

Conversely, the last two winners built teams in ways that we’ve been consistently told franchises shouldn’t build.

[T0mShane]

OL play is mostly bad to mediocre across the board and it’s incumbent upon teams to find workarounds to that unfortunate reality. 

[doitny]

21 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

There is no Jaamar Chase in this draft. 

doesnt matter. the WR and Edge we get will be good players and positions of need and at positions that move the needle. even if he went FS or CB that helps us more than an OL.

plus we had an OL that played well enough for 3 QBs not named Wilson to throw for 300 yds. a UDFA (Fant) gave up 1 sack all year.

i like Wilson and i give him another year but lets not lie to ourselves, it was him not the OL and sinking in more high draft capital is really stupid especially when you look around the league and nobody does it but losing teams and we have a million holes to fill.

[Peace Frog]

Just now, doitny said:

doesnt matter. the WR and Edge we get will be good players and positions of need and at positions that move the needle. even if he went FS or CB that helps us more than an OL.

plus we had an OL that played well enough for 3 QBs not named Wilson to throw for 300 yds. a UDFA (Fant) gave up 1 sack all year.

i like Wilson and i give him another year but lets not lie to ourselves, it was him not the OL and sinking in more high draft capital is really stupid especially when you look around the league and nobody does it but losing teams and we have a million holes to fill.

Missed my point. If we stay at 4, build a massive Oline. If we can move back grab WRs TEs and RBs galore. 

[Peace Frog]

23 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

OL play is mostly bad to mediocre across the board and it’s incumbent upon teams to find workarounds to that unfortunate reality. 

You have obviously come out of the concussion protocol. 

Happy for you dude. 

[Beerfish]

The landscape has changed in the NFL, it used to be that you had to draft a QB and hope he turned out good, now you can build your team and get a vet QB in a number of ways.  Star or near star QBs used to never be available.

[Jetsfan80]

54 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Conversely, the last two winners built teams in ways that we’ve been consistently told franchises shouldn’t build.

OK, that's false.  Teams with an established core can go out and spend in free agency and trade away a bunch of draft picks.  Teams like the Jets cannot.

Yes, the Rams bought a lot of their talent, but they also had established core players like Aaron Donald (the best non-QB in the entire league), Cooper Kupp (the best WR in the league this year), and a top-end LT in Andrew Whitworth.  They didn't draft Whitworth (though he had been a Ram since 2017), but they did draft Donald and Kupp. 

The Bucs brought in Brady, but they drafted Chris Godwin, Mike Evans, Donovan Smith, Tristan Wirfs, Devin White, Vita Vea and Antoine Winfield.

If your argument is the Jets need to go on a spending spree and trade their picks to become a SB contender, you would be wrong.  You have to have an established core FIRST, then you can feel free to go ahead and mortgage the future.

[Integrity28]

58 minutes ago, doitny said:

Bengals dont even get to this game if they draft OL in rd 1. 

Cool.

Nobody said they had to pass on Jamar Chase to invest in protecting Burrow. 

Derp response, frankly.

[Integrity28]

51 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Conversely, the last two winners built teams in ways that we’ve been consistently told franchises shouldn’t build.

That was the other thread. The one I opted not to start in favor of beer.

[doitny]

9 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Missed my point. If we stay at 4, build a massive Oline. If we can move back grab WRs TEs and RBs galore. 

missed my point. nobody has EVER won a SB like that,. well maybe in the 70s or 80s when ground and pound was the thing to do, i didnt feel the need to research that far, but not this century.

[Integrity28]

19 minutes ago, doitny said:

doesnt matter. the WR and Edge we get will be good players and positions of need and at positions that move the needle. even if he went FS or CB that helps us more than an OL.

plus we had an OL that played well enough for 3 QBs not named Wilson to throw for 300 yds. a UDFA (Fant) gave up 1 sack all year.

i like Wilson and i give him another year but lets not lie to ourselves, it was him not the OL and sinking in more high draft capital is really stupid especially when you look around the league and nobody does it but losing teams and we have a million holes to fill.

 

18 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Missed my point. If we stay at 4, build a massive Oline. If we can move back grab WRs TEs and RBs galore. 

Protecting the QB doesn’t seem like it should be a debate. It seems like table stakes. 

It’s weird that folks immediately took it to mean a prescribed first-round pick agenda from me. Not the case.

I was actually just giving a nod to the relevance of the strategy to invest in OL. You know, since Mac didn’t.

[Integrity28]

13 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The landscape has changed in the NFL, it used to be that you had to draft a QB and hope he turned out good, now you can build your team and get a vet QB in a number of ways.  Star or near star QBs used to never be available.

Rule changes.

Used to be a league with 5 good QBs and a bunch of bums. Now it’s 5 stars, 20 good QBs and 5 bums.

Everyone can throw for 75000 yards.

[doitny]

3 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Cool.

Nobody said they had to pass on Jamar Chase to invest in protecting Burrow. 

Derp response, frankly.

but they did invest in the OL . 

2022 - 2nd, 4th, 6th rd

2019- 1st and 4th rd

2018 1st rd C Price who got traded to the Giants before the year. 

[Peace Frog]

4 minutes ago, doitny said:

missed my point. nobody has EVER won a SB like that,. well maybe in the 70s or 80s when ground and pound was the thing to do, i didnt feel the need to research that far, but not this century.

Again you missed MY point. 

If the top 2 edge guys are gone, taking a not-Jamar Chase at 4 would be gross negligence. 

Either take the Oline man to build a wall or move back and take multiple WRs and TEs to hope you hit on 1 or 2. 

Fant AVT McGovern Onoku Bechton would be a world class line. 

That’s our best option at 4. 

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, doitny said:

but they did invest in the OL . 

2022 - 2nd, 4th, 6th rd

2019- 1st and 4th rd

2018 1st rd C Price who got traded to the Giants before the year. 

Google: average success rate of 4th - 7th round picks 

[doitny]

1 minute ago, Integrity28 said:

Google: average success rate of 4th - 7th round picks 

ok so what do you consider investment. i already showed you two 1st rd picks and a 2nd rd pick. 

[Jetsfan80]

32 minutes ago, doitny said:

ok so what do you consider investment. i already showed you two 1st rd picks and a 2nd rd pick. 

Over 4 drafts.  Which is decent, I suppose.  But for the first of of those 1st rounders (Price in '18) it was very clear early on that he wasn't going to work out, meaning he was a sunk cost.

Not taking an OL until the 6th round in the 2020 draft made no sense.  Especially since Jonah Williams had just suffered an injury that cost him the entire 2019 season.  

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

OK, that's false.  Teams with an established core can go out and spend in free agency and trade away a bunch of draft picks.  Teams like the Jets cannot.

Yes, the Rams bought a lot of their talent, but they also had established core players like Aaron Donald (the best non-QB in the entire league), Cooper Kupp (the best WR in the league this year), and a top-end LT in Andrew Whitworth.  They didn't draft Whitworth (though he had been a Ram since 2017), but they did draft Donald and Kupp. 

The Bucs brought in Brady, but they drafted Chris Godwin, Mike Evans, Donovan Smith, Tristan Wirfs, Devin White, Vita Vea and Antoine Winfield.

If your argument is the Jets need to go on a spending spree and trade their picks to become a SB contender, you would be wrong.  You have to have an established core FIRST, then you can feel free to go ahead and mortgage the future.

Agree ...when this team makes it to the playoffs it can evaluate better what it needs to get over the hump based on playoff performance just like the Rams have been doing. They realized Goff was not going to get it done and then they realized they also needed a few skill players Miller and OBJ that would have the biggest impact in the playoffs. Extra pass rush and WR and you can never go wrong. The biggest mistake the Jets made in 09-10 was not going after trustworthy competent WR's instead they tried the Drunk Buddy route and it failed surrounding a young QB with that pack of clowns certainly didn't help either

[Biggs]

We drafted a massive OL in round 1 last year.  

[Dunnie]

Bengals dont even get to this game if they draft OL in rd 1. 

false narrative

[rangerous]

true about needing a strong oline but how on earth did that 40 year old left tackle for the rams do so well?  you'd think that one of the olinemen, besides becton and fant, that the jets drafted or brought in would've been able to learn the position well enough.

[OilfieldJet]

8 hours ago, T0mShane said:

OL play is mostly bad to mediocre across the board and it’s incumbent upon teams to find workarounds to that unfortunate reality. 

Lol, everyone is below average?

[The Crusher]

8 hours ago, doitny said:

doesnt matter. the WR and Edge we get will be good players and positions of need and at positions that move the needle. even if he went FS or CB that helps us more than an OL.

plus we had an OL that played well enough for 3 QBs not named Wilson to throw for 300 yds. a UDFA (Fant) gave up 1 sack all year.

i like Wilson and i give him another year but lets not lie to ourselves, it was him not the OL and sinking in more high draft capital is really stupid especially when you look around the league and nobody does it but losing teams and we have a million holes to fill.

 

7 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Rule changes.

Used to be a league with 5 good QBs and a bunch of bums. Now it’s 5 stars, 20 good QBs and 5 bums.

Everyone can throw for 75000 yards.

Our consistency to be in the bottom 5 is  impressively depressing. 

[68JET11]

Bengals get to this game because Burrow can handle a pass rush and has top WR's.  Give Burrow a better OL, and that game wouldn't have come down to the last drive by the Rams. It would have been over sooner.

Don't try an convince us old folk, even though the game has changed that OL and DL still aren't the most important positions on the field other than the QB. It won't work. Games today are still won in the trenches and nobody can convince someone with knowledge of football otherwise.

[Biggs]

14 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

Bengals get to this game because Burrow can handle a pass rush and has top WR's.  Give Burrow a better OL, and that game wouldn't have come down to the last drive by the Rams. It would have been over sooner.

Don't try an convince us old folk, even though the game has changed that OL and DL still aren't the most important positions on the field other than the QB. It won't work. Games today are still won in the trenches and nobody can convince someone with knowledge of football otherwise.

Games in the NFL are won by exploiting mismatches that are presented by the opponent not the league.   The idea that in a salary capped league you can build a super team that can win the trenches in ever game would have meant the Dallas Cowboys were winning the SB in one of the last 8 years.  They haven't sniffed it.  

Had the Bengals had a better OL and you take away Chase or Trey Hendrickson, a third round draft pick of the NO Saints the Bengals don't sniff the SB.  

Games are won in a multitude of ways today.  Give Burrow a better OL and what playmakers on O and D do you subtract?  If you have a great OL and no weapons teams can blitz without fear.  

There are very few Aaron Donalds in the NFL.  He's one of the great players in NFL history for a reason.  

The Bengals need a better OL.  They will be drafting at 31 and the great players they have will need to get paid.  The window is very short.  They may try and build their OL and still never get back.

[sec101row23]

The Bengals O-line had two 2 starters that were injured.  It speaks more to needing quality depth.  I’d still rather have All-Pros and Pro-Bowlers at the skill positions than on the O-line.   

[UntouchableCrew]

8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

OK, that's false.  Teams with an established core can go out and spend in free agency and trade away a bunch of draft picks.  Teams like the Jets cannot.

Yes, the Rams bought a lot of their talent, but they also had established core players like Aaron Donald (the best non-QB in the entire league), Cooper Kupp (the best WR in the league this year), and a top-end LT in Andrew Whitworth.  They didn't draft Whitworth (though he had been a Ram since 2017), but they did draft Donald and Kupp. 

The Bucs brought in Brady, but they drafted Chris Godwin, Mike Evans, Donovan Smith, Tristan Wirfs, Devin White, Vita Vea and Antoine Winfield.

If your argument is the Jets need to go on a spending spree and trade their picks to become a SB contender, you would be wrong.  You have to have an established core FIRST, then you can feel free to go ahead and mortgage the future.

Correct.

Similar to how we drafted Brick, Mangold, Revis, Harris, Cotchery, Leon, Brad Smith, Kerry Rhodes, etc. and then went out and added Calvin Pace, Kris Jenkins, Alan Faneca, Damien Woody, and then swung on Favre.

[TuscanyTile2]

I've read some comments like "too bad Cincy didn't win but they're talented and young so their future is bright".  I really don't understand that type of attitude though, especially since we haven't even been to a SB in 50+ years.  Cincy hadn't gone in 33 years.