Zach Wilson’s short passes rating (Weeks 15-18)

[Smashmouth]

41 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

 

I’ll tell you why.
While this is nice to see - loved seeing him continue to progress to a point where he was top five over the last quarter of season at the thing he struggled with most early. but Zach still has a long way to go.

His talent is there, but things like this tend to over hype expectations. He will absolutely be better this year -it will be clear and obvious progress, but if people start expecting top 10 or as this shows top 5 play there’s going to be a lot of disappointment.

Zach’s still going to be a work on progress. By the end of next year I believe we will know we have our long awaited FQB, but there’s still going to be plenty of bumps in the road.



Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

24:25:31:32

 

 

20 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

When will it be acceptable to expect him to play like the #2 overall pick? 

That's the question. When ?

With the talent he has and being the second over all pick, I expect at the very least top 15 QB next year. He is going to have a solid OL one year into there development in this offense. He should have a much better grasp of the play book and the speed of the game. The only lingering question will be, and its the same for all QB's, does he have the processing power to play the position ? I think the answer to that question comes this year. You either have it or you don't . Understand x's and o's is easy, executing it with different variables in under 3 seconds is not. I still have a lot of hope for Zach but he has to put last year to bed quickly .

Fidelio you make the statement "don't expect top ten" and I expect top ten. The highest profile young QB's right now are Burrow and Herbert and they did it in year 1. Yes they have more talent to work with and I'm expecting Douglas to provide that talent for Zach in the draft and possibly via trade in the coming weeks. I expect a dynamic WR or 2 and another explosive RB to complement Carter. Anything less than that would be an absolute failure of the Jets to provide what Wilson needs to succeed

[The Crusher]

6 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

 

That's the question. When ?

With the talent he has and being the second over all pick, I expect at the very least top 15 QB next year. He is going to have a solid OL one year into there development in this offense. He should have a much better grasp of the play book and the speed of the game. The only lingering question will be, and its the same for all QB's, does he have the processing power to play the position ? I think the answer to that question comes this year. You either have it or you don't . Understand x's and o's is easy, executing it with different variables in under 3 seconds is not. I still have a lot of hope for Zach but he has to put last year to bed quickly .

Fidelio you make the statement "don't expect top ten" and I expect top ten. The highest profile young QB's right now are Burrow and Herbert and they did it in year 1. Yes they have more talent to work with and I'm expecting Douglas to provide that talent for Zach in the draft and possibly via trade in the coming weeks. I expect a dynamic WR or 2 and another explosive RB to complement Carter. Anything less than that would be an absolute failure of the Jets to provide what Wilson needs to succeed

Top 15 is a huge leap from the bottom of the barrel but I think that a very reasonable goal. But, with the upgrades this year from last year top ten would be far more indicative that we may have our guy. But top 15 is a nice start. 

[TuscanyTile2]

19 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

The highest profile young QB's right now are Burrow and Herbert and they did it in year 1. Yes they have more talent to work with

They both had really bad OLs. 

[Green Ghost]

18 hours ago, Bronx said:

 

People still want to use all kinds of sample sizes or look for stats that will make them feel better about what was a dismal rookie year for Zach.

We’re all hoping he will improve, and most of us think he can.  Last year is over, it’s time to move on to year 2.
Let’s stop trying to put lipstick on the pig the ‘21 season was for him.

[FidelioJet]

53 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

When will it be acceptable to expect him to play like the #2 overall pick? 

I think year three that should absolutely expected.  He should also be expected to be MUCH better this year. 

[JustInFudge]

 

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

I think year three that should absolutely expected.  He should also be expected to be MUCH better this year. 

That's s pretty sh*tty return on investment, no?  You take a player #2 overall because he has an apparent skill set (some said he was QB1) but it's going to take him 3 years to be any good?  Better hope at year 3, he's top 10 because if he's not, everyone is fired and we're back to the drawing board at QB.

 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

 

That's s pretty sh*tty return on investment, no?  You take a player #2 overall because he has an apparent skill set (some said he was QB1) but it's going to take him 3 years to be any good?  Better hope at year 3, he's top 10 because if he's not, everyone is fired and we're back to the drawing board at QB.

 

T minus 5 years!

[Green Ghost]

19 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

He's a pro QB who was drafted #2 overall so it's a bit embarrassing that it was ever an issue in the first place.  But I agree that he played better at the end of last year.

You beat me to the punch with that first sentence.

When the best thing we can say about the QB we took #2 overall is he finally stopped throwing short passes at his receivers ankles, what are we actually trying to do here? 
 

[TuscanyTile2]

13 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Let's face it fellas, we got ourselves a stud on our hands. He's going to make a leap next year that will blow your dicks off. Book it.

He already made the hall of fame after 1 start but he's going to make a gigantic leap next year too?  

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, Green Ghost said:

You beat me to the punch with that first sentence.

When the best thing we can say about the QB we took #2 overall is he finally stopped throwing short passes at his receivers ankles, what are we actually trying to do here? 
 

At his receivers' ankles?  That would've been an improvement in many cases!

[More Cowbell]

19 hours ago, Bronx said:

 

Hopefully it was just a matter of comfort for h and he won't  have this problem going forward. There is no denying Wilson played his best football in that last few games

[Gastineau Lives]

10 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

He already made the hall of fame after 1 start but he's going to make a gigantic leap next year too?  

I'll give you Shane's number you can have phone sex

[Hal N of Provo]

45 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Top 15 is a huge leap from the bottom of the barrel but I think that a very reasonable goal. But, with the upgrades this year from last year top ten would be far more indicative that we may have our guy. But top 15 is a nice start. 

Lots of off-season Kool Aid, but a really bad WR group has gotten weaker.

Banking on potential isn’t ideal.  

It’s nice that an NFL team now has a couple NFL level TEs and a RG.   

[Hal N of Provo]

30 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

T minus 5 years!

That would be awesome to draft him and get lots of stuff for him in a trade because he refuses to play on the Jets!

[FidelioJet]

18 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

He already made the hall of fame after 1 start but he's going to make a gigantic leap next year too?  

Who said he made the hall of fame after one start?   

[TuscanyTile2]

7 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

I'll give you Shane's number you can have phone sex

I won't even begin to consider it until he renounces Adam Gase.  In the meantime, I made this photo for you.

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

 

That's the question. When ?

With the talent he has and being the second over all pick, I expect at the very least top 15 QB next year. He is going to have a solid OL one year into there development in this offense. He should have a much better grasp of the play book and the speed of the game. The only lingering question will be, and its the same for all QB's, does he have the processing power to play the position ? I think the answer to that question comes this year. You either have it or you don't . Understand x's and o's is easy, executing it with different variables in under 3 seconds is not. I still have a lot of hope for Zach but he has to put last year to bed quickly .

Fidelio you make the statement "don't expect top ten" and I expect top ten. The highest profile young QB's right now are Burrow and Herbert and they did it in year 1. Yes they have more talent to work with and I'm expecting Douglas to provide that talent for Zach in the draft and possibly via trade in the coming weeks. I expect a dynamic WR or 2 and another explosive RB to complement Carter. Anything less than that would be an absolute failure of the Jets to provide what Wilson needs to succeed

All these QB’s are different. Start from different points, surrounded by different talent, coaching, systems etc. 

I mean you can expect what you want. You’re unlikely to see top 10 QB the play.   But he’s going to show more than enough growth and progress to comfortably warrant a third year.  
Then year three elite level performance should be expected/demanded. 

[The Crusher]

16 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Lots of off-season Kool Aid, but a really bad WR group has gotten weaker.

Banking on potential isn’t ideal.  

It’s nice that an NFL team now has a couple NFL level TEs and a RG.   

Lines been upgrade. TE’s been upgraded. We lost Cole and Crowder. We need to add another wideout in the draft. I guess on paper you can argue it’s weaker but hopefully that changes before season starts. 

[Gastineau Lives]

20 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I won't even begin to consider it until he renounces Adam Gase.  In the meantime, I made this photo for you.

Thanks man. Saved me the leg work.

[Bruce Harper]

14 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Let's face it fellas, we got ourselves a stud on our hands. He's going to make a leap next year that will blow your dicks off. Book it.

Can I keep mine?

[Gastineau Lives]

Just now, Bruce Harper said:

Can I keep mine?

That is not an option.

[Flashlite80]

21 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

He's a pro QB who was drafted #2 overall so it's a bit embarrassing that it was ever an issue in the first place.  But I agree that he played better at the end of last year.

First, to say his short passes were a problem is a kind way of saying downright embarrassing.  He did play better when he returned.

He was also terrible at beating the blitz.  Other teams sent the blitz constantly and he couldn't make them pay. Sure that's why we have two new tight ends.  Having Elijah Moore back should help too.  

[JoJoTownsell1]

21 hours ago, Copernicus said:

Zach Wilson came back from injury and continued to build on areas of success and made strides to overcome areas of weakness. His off season (like many QBs) had him going from state to state to work on his craft with his Wrs. Cant ask for much more.

Yup and let's remember that by the end of the season he had lost Moore/Davis and Berrios. The 3 guys many think aren't even good enough to be your WR group. So you would think that with those 3 guys back AND the addition of a stud or a high 1st round pick, we should see a big improvement in Wilson's game.  

[RichardTodd27]

6 hours ago, JiFapono said:

When will it be acceptable to expect him to play like the #2 overall pick? 

You need to lower your expectations. Zach set the bar pretty low by throwing 9 TD's against 11 Int's in his rookie year.

But he's smart, hard working and at times passes the eye test.

I'll take 20 TD's against 10 Int's with a completion percentage at 58%.

[FidelioJet]

22 hours ago, JiFapono said:

 

That's s pretty sh*tty return on investment, no?  You take a player #2 overall because he has an apparent skill set (some said he was QB1) but it's going to take him 3 years to be any good?  Better hope at year 3, he's top 10 because if he's not, everyone is fired and we're back to the drawing board at QB.

 

No. Of course not. 
He’ll be better this year and then an elite level QB for a decade +.  I think that’s a steal of an investment.  

But even if you do, it’s likely to be the case. You can expect what you want. That’s fine.  And bitch and complain all season when he’s not top 10 (even though he’s showing real improvement).  It’s fine. As a fan I certainly expect it from JN.  But I have  a different understanding and expectations.   I suspect you and I will be having a similar conversation to this weekly once the season starts

To be clear, I expect real growth.  I think the Josh Allen path is the one we should be looking to.   Look at Allen’s year 2 numbers - those are reasonable expectations. 

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

No. Of course not. 
He’ll be better this year and then an elite level QB for a decade +.  I think that’s a steal of an investment.  

Better is a not a challenging achievement by any standards after last season.  Elite is what you're asking for when you take a player #2 overall, so I hope you're right but he's going to have to make a pretty significant jump this season IMO to have that chance in year 3 because there are very few examples of a players who sucked for 2 years and then suddenly ascended into greatness at the QB position.  If he doesnt have a top 15 level type season, I dont see how the Jets give him year 3 with no competition to be honest.  

 

[ChewyandtheJets]

19 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Yup and let's remember that by the end of the season he had lost Moore/Davis and Berrios. The 3 guys many think aren't even good enough to be your WR group. So you would think that with those 3 guys back AND the addition of a stud or a high 1st round pick, we should see a big improvement in Wilson's game.  

My thoughts exactly.  Definitely looked calmer and more comfortable after the injury.   The leap between year 1 and 2 when you have 9 months to focus on your specific offense instead of 4 months trying learn an offense is pretty huge.  It’s hard to overstate how much E. Moore was missed.  He is our only receiver who creates separation and was rolling until his second injury knocked him out.  Notice in the video how little separation there is on each throw both before and after the catch.  Hopefully we get Williams or Wilson at pick 10 and the offense can open up a bit more with 4 professional receivers and two professional TEs.  Been a long long time since we could say that. 

[FidelioJet]

6 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Better is a not a challenging achievement by any standards after last season.  Elite is what you're asking for when you take a player #2 overall, so I hope you're right but he's going to have to make a pretty significant jump this season IMO to have that chance in year 3 because there are very few examples of a players who sucked for 2 years and then suddenly ascended into greatness at the QB position.  If he doesnt have a top 15 level type season, I dont see how the Jets give him year 3 with no competition to be honest.  

 

I think ultimately you're going to be disappointed in both aspects.

He's not going to be a top 15 QB - and he won't have competition in year 3. 

Now, top 15 the last quarter of the season - I think that's a reasonable expectation too.  Growth is the key.  

[Irish Jet]

Now do passes beyond 10 yards!

[JustInFudge]

43 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I think ultimately you're going to be disappointed in both aspects.

He's not going to be a top 15 QB - and he won't have competition in year 3. 

Now, top 15 the last quarter of the season - I think that's a reasonable expectation too.  Growth is the key.  

Seriously?  Unreasonable?  For the #2 overall pick?  That's not good.  While the league has some serious talent at the top end of for QB position right now, you have teams like the Steelers, Seahawks, Texans, ATL, Car, NYG, Was, Det, San Fran, Jax, Miami, NE, Philly, Nor all with sh*tty to no QB, that's half the league.  If he's not rated above every single on of those QB's, this team is proper ****ed.

 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

He’s already top 5 in my heart. 

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

Seriously?  Unreasonable?  For the #2 overall pick?  That's not good.  While the league has some serious talent at the top end of for QB position right now, you have teams like the Steelers, Seahawks, Texans, ATL, Car, NYG, Was, Det, San Fran, Jax, Miami, NE, Philly, Nor all with sh*tty to no QB, that's half the league.  If he's not rated above every single on of those QB's, this team is proper ****ed.

 

I think you're over complicating it.

The reality is Zach Wilson's talent is apparent, but he started from a relatively low place as far as being prepared to be an elite NFL QB - which means he just has further to go to get to that elite level.    It really is pretty simply.  

This idea of expecting some light to go on, like in a movie, and all of a sudden he goes from sucking to amazing - just doesn't work that way.  It's slow and steady progress.  Zach has clearly showed he's capable of that - but still has a long way to go.  That should be good news and have Jet fans excited.

I think we would have all liked him to have started from a higher point, but he didn't.  It's simply the reality we're faced with right now...So, we can set these high expectations giving us reasons to bitch for 18 weeks - or we can accept the reality and enjoy watching our young QB grow into, what I'm confident will be, a special one.

[Sonny Werblin]

Bottom line is that if the kid gets his pre-read right, knows where he is going with the ball and keeps his feet clean, he will look great. If he masters that part of the game, we're set because he seems to do more good than bad when the play breaks down and chaos ensues.

[Hex]

We can show all the stats we want, but if he doesn't carry this type of improvement to the next season it means nothing. Hopefully the addition of 2 good TEs will help a lot, as well as the added benefit of the OL sorting itself earlier in the year.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

I think you're over complicating it.

The reality is Zach Wilson's talent is apparent, but he started from a relatively low place as far as being prepared to be an elite NFL QB - which means he just has further to go to get to that elite level.    It really is pretty simply.  

This idea of expecting some light to go on, like in a movie, and all of a sudden he goes from sucking to amazing - just doesn't work that way.  It's slow and steady progress.  Zach has clearly showed he's capable of that - but still has a long way to go.  That should be good news and have Jet fans excited.

I think we would have all liked him to have started from a higher point, but he didn't.  It's simply the reality we're faced with right now...So, we can set these high expectations giving us reasons to bitch for 18 weeks - or we can accept the reality and enjoy watching our young QB grow into, what I'm confident will be, a special one.

I'm not over complicating anything.  I know you're the biggest Zac apologist on the board but how can you sit here and literally  write off the 2022 season because its unreasonable to expect the #2 overall pick top half of the league QB?   You are legit saying, we shouldnt have any expectations of the #2 overall pick in his 2nd year because of what?  Level of competition in college?  For **** sake, this participation trophy level logic.  lmfao

If Zach Wilson isnt at top 15 QB next year, it's ******* panic time dude.  You're high if you dont think they bring in a starter to take over in year 3.  HIGH!