Our DC

[Trotter]

17 minutes ago, WowOhWow said:

I genuinely don't understand the "we have to wait crowd".  No one is saying pre-season is a true indicator of regular season success/failure.  That said, we have been given the opportunity to watch our DC for a full season and now 2 of 3 pre season games.  We're just making observations on what we see.  It's like you're afraid of having an opinion and have to hide behind some silly pre-season reasoning.  

Are you and the other "have to waits" unable to formulate an opinion?  The Jets have not looked sharp.  Ulbrich's units in particular have not looked good since he walked in the building.

I think it's fair to say there's some concern.  No one is screaming fire in a crowded theatre.  We're just discussing our team.  If we adhered to you and all the other "have to waits" to be 4 games into the season before formulating an opinion what would we be talking about on here.

I loved the Salah hire. But I'm concerned the dude is a "buzz word bingo" type of coach.  Talks pretty while his team is getting tooled on.  I'm even more concerned he hasn't blown a gasket on his DC to get his @ss in gear and start looking like a pro team - regardless of who is on the field.  

This team needs to show progress.  I believe JD has put his money where his mouth is and gotten us more talent.  So far, our HC and DC talk all pretty but haven't shown up.  Now go ahead and tell me I should wait another 5-weeks before having an opinion.  

I would never tell anyone to wait for their opinion.

the defense stunk last year no question and that is in part to lack of talent and coaching.

my reasoning for 4 real games is let’s gave the true starters on the field together for a period of time. We simply did not have that last year due to lack of talent and injury.

you might be 100% right - but I can’t get behind the stance after 2 preseason games.

now am I capable of forming an opinion - absolutely after I ask my wife first.

[JustInFudge]

18 minutes ago, WowOhWow said:

Can you show me where they started to play better at the end of the year due to the good coaching?  They got carved up.

 

I said you saw a lot of those young guys playing better with experience ie: Carter, Echols, Pinnock, etc.  I did not say the unit as a whole was better.  

[Joe W. Namath]

The same people ripping Ulbrich are the same people who were calling for Lafluers head 5 weeks into last season.  Some never learn.

[LIJetsFan]

1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

The same people ripping Ulbrich are the same people who were calling for Lafluers head 5 weeks into last season.  Some never learn.

LaFluers turned it around mid way thru, Ulbrich not even a little.  

[#27TheDominator]

I think the issue is that Ulbrich has no real track record and the things he says do not inspire confidence.  He acts like it is a "monkey could call this D" and that things are simple.  That does not make you feel like things will get better with experience.  I think they did cover for the secondary last year.  I think the corners were weak.  People pumped up Hall, but he always seemed like a guy you were praying became Otis Smith.  The fact that went after 2 starting corners gave me hope.  The pass rush was bad and certainly should improve plenty.

  A D is generally only as good as its weakest link and the Jets had several last year.  You can cover for one weak spot, but not five.  This year they have more bodies.  They didn't look good against Philly's starters, but they were getting after the passer.  I am hopeful they will be middle of the pack.  I think we will also have been a bit spoiled.  We had some excellent defenses under Rex and Bowles.  We all prayed for offense.  I am hopeful that the O will work better and that will change the dynamic.  The D giving up a 3rd and 14 isn't so bad if your O gets one every now and then.  

[Joe W. Namath]

17 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

LaFluers turned it around mid way thru, Ulbrich not even a little.  

And now that ulbrich has some talent he will turn it around as well.

[Bungaman]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think the issue is that Ulbrich has no real track record and the things he says do not inspire confidence.  He acts like it is a "monkey could call this D" and that things are simple.  That does not make you feel like things will get better with experience.  I think they did cover for the secondary last year.  I think the corners were weak.  People pumped up Hall, but he always seemed like a guy you were praying became Otis Smith.  The fact that went after 2 starting corners gave me hope.  The pass rush was bad and certainly should improve plenty.

  A D is generally only as good as its weakest link and the Jets had several last year.  You can cover for one weak spot, but not five.  This year they have more bodies.  They didn't look good against Philly's starters, but they were getting after the passer.  I am hopeful they will be middle of the pack.  I think we will also have been a bit spoiled.  We had some excellent defenses under Rex and Bowles.  We all prayed for offense.  I am hopeful that the O will work better and that will change the dynamic.  The D giving up a 3rd and 14 isn't so bad if your O gets one every now and then.  

True this. If the defense just gets to the middle of the pack this year, it means the offense won't always be playing from behind. What was last year's dreadful stat of the team not having a lead in any game for how many quarters? That's a heavy load for a young offense: there's no margin for error/taking chances. And if the defense can generate a couple of three and outs here and there, and get a turnover once and a while, the offense gets a short field - that will have an impact as well. 

The weakest link is the key: last year, you might have had everyone thinking not only that they had to do their job, but compensate for the guys on either side of them. You just end up doing your own job badly. 

[#27TheDominator]

6 minutes ago, Bungaman said:

True this. If the defense just gets to the middle of the pack this year, it means the offense won't always be playing from behind. What was last year's dreadful stat of the team not having a lead in any game for how many quarters? That's a heavy load for a young offense: there's no margin for error/taking chances. And if the defense can generate a couple of three and outs here and there, and get a turnover once and a while, the offense gets a short field - that will have an impact as well. 

The weakest link is the key: last year, you might have had everyone thinking not only that they had to do their job, but compensate for the guys on either side of them. You just end up doing your own job badly. 

Yeah.  I just read an article about Ulbrich preaching the importance of stability and time in the system.  That having time in can make you know where to line up and what to do instinctively instead of thinking about it.  That makes you do everything faster.  He preached simplicity and technique.  It reminds me of something Sparano (RIP) said.  It sounded stupid, but if you've ever played almost anything it makes sense - Know and know you know.  Once you aren't worried about whether you are lined up correctly you will move faster.  

[varjet]

By the middle of the season we will know if Ulbrich has his act together.  I give it 50/50 from what I have seen. 

Saleh better be prepared to jump in to save Ulbrich and himself.  

[AZSOJ]

On 8/21/2022 at 7:20 AM, Jet Nut said:

I should have added “not counting some fans on a message board”.   
You keep reminding us what a group of the starting unit did against Philly starters did on one drive.  A drive that I think would have been stopped with out the help of a stupid penalty.  As I said the vaunted Denver D was shredded yesterday and no one is worried.  Last season had nowhere near the talent on this team before they lost half the unit to injury

 

I think all of you should read this post and then think about this scheme, the players and the CS.   Huston, we have a problem.... and it sits with the HC/CS who should make adjustments to the scheme based on personnel... that is coaching 101. 

Jets X factor does a really great article on the jets scheme, weaknesses. dependence on talent and what to expect this year. Really great article. If you are going to read one article today this should be the one. Even if you hate the Jets there is a lot here for you too. The article was too big to copy the entire thing and I had to divide it into 3 posts.

https://jetsxfactor.com/2022/08/24/system-personnel-game-planning/

 

BTW - Our DC blows. 

[#27TheDominator]

11 minutes ago, AZSOJ said:

 

I think all of you should read this post and then think about this scheme, the players and the CS.   Huston, we have a problem.... and it sits with the HC/CS who should make adjustments to the scheme based on personnel... that is coaching 101. 

Jets X factor does a really great article on the jets scheme, weaknesses. dependence on talent and what to expect this year. Really great article. If you are going to read one article today this should be the one. Even if you hate the Jets there is a lot here for you too. The article was too big to copy the entire thing and I had to divide it into 3 posts.

https://jetsxfactor.com/2022/08/24/system-personnel-game-planning/

 

BTW - Our DC blows. 

I read it.  Seems like bullsh*t to me.  Yes, they sucked last year.  Yes, they traded up and lost picks that could have helped the D.  I agree with that, but everybody is in love with Johnson and Hall, so they can't whine about it (like I can).  

The scheme needs athletes, but it is bullsh*t to act like they have to swap the scheme because they aren't loaded with first round picks.  Yes, the Seahawks had all-pros.  OTOH, Earl Thomas was a high first, but Wagner was a 2nd and Sherman was a 5th .  Yeah we are trying LB with converted safeties, but they hand-picked these dudes and the studs he is comparing them to were Greenlaw (5th) and Warner (3rd).  Sure they had Armstead, Ward and Bosa, but the Jets have some high picks too and Armstead was kind of a bust before they arrived.

The Jets went with a clean slate rebuild.  The D sucked last year, but that is exactly when you install your system and don't mix and match sh*t to fit the crap you have.  If you believe in the system, you stick with it.  I am not in love with the system or the coaches running it, but they have to coach what they know and believe in.  

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

I have very little confidence in Ulbrich because:

1. I don’t remember 1 in game adjustment that he made, let alone one that worked last year

2. Gregg Williams did much better with an equally as bad defensive roster 

3. While preseason must be considered for what it is, the fact is that offenses are also vanilla, not just defenses.  It’s inexcusable for even backup players to be so far out of position that there isn’t a player within 5 yards of the receiver … several times per game

4. Q Williams went from 2020 stud to ending last year as a dud.  His PFF grade dropped 15-20 points.  Coaches job is to make players better and adapt their scheme to their best players

5. Run defense went from good in 2020 to horrendous, despite what Saleh tries to sell us

6. I did not see the defense improve last year, which you would reasonably expect after transitioning to a new system

Not saying the story has been fully written but the first chapter sucked so bad I’m a little worried what’s to follow.

JD has given Saleh and Ulbich a competitive roster.  There can be NO EXCUSES if this defense doesn’t improve significantly 

 

 

[Beerfish]

Ulbrich is adamant he wants no dlineman to play more than 30-35 snaps.

The D scheme stinks.

[bostonmajet]

1 hour ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I have very little confidence in Ulbrich because:

1. I don’t remember 1 in game adjustment that he made, let alone one that worked last year

2. Gregg Williams did much better with an equally as bad defensive roster 

3. While preseason must be considered for what it is, the fact is that offenses are also vanilla, not just defenses.  It’s inexcusable for even backup players to be so far out of position that there isn’t a player within 5 yards of the receiver … several times per game

4. Q Williams went from 2020 stud to ending last year as a dud.  His PFF grade dropped 15-20 points.  Coaches job is to make players better and adapt their scheme to their best players

5. Run defense went from good in 2020 to horrendous, despite what Saleh tries to sell us

6. I did not see the defense improve last year, which you would reasonably expect after transitioning to a new system

Not saying the story has been fully written but the first chapter sucked so bad I’m a little worried what’s to follow.

JD has given Saleh and Ulbich a competitive roster.  There can be NO EXCUSES if this defense doesn’t improve significantly 

 

 

You are absolutely right about this, but much can be explained away. Of course, it doesn't mean that you won't be right about this year, but I think 4 games should tell the tale.

1. you got me - I don't remember either

2. yes, mostly but this kind of mess often happens when you are transition from one scheme to another especially when you don't have the right personal for either

3. again - this can happen with a lot of youth or in a new scheme - it 'appeared' to get a little better by end of year, but...

4. He had to learn a new position too and Saleh likes to rotate - also, I would not call him a stud; his brother went from dud to stud, however; also without the outside rush (tried to fix with carl), he is a bit exposed in this new system

5. yes, see above; also Saleh's defense depends on the LB and the DL just drives; of course we didn't really fix that problem, so we shall see

6. too many missing pieces; also a weak secondary with no pass rush is a bad combination even if you have a whole year.

 

- either way, the D is just a likely to be bad as it is to be improved, but I think the first 4 games should tell the tale. Also, vanilla offense often beats vanilla defense; and 1st string vanilla often embarrasses 2nd string defense.

I am hoping for the best, but prepared for the worst.

[FactsOnly]

Douglas is great at everything except finding football coaches

 

his Achilles heel

[jgb]

3 hours ago, FactsOnly said:

Douglas is great at everything except finding football coaches

 

his Achilles heel

QB

[68JET11]

If half a season goes by, and we see the same pattern out of Ulbrich, then I think he needs to go. If he can't game plan, and always plays the same defense then tell me what he's good for?  Does is take 2 quarters of football to recognize that your defense is getting eaten up by Falcons offense ? Come out in a new look, put together some defensive schemes to stop what AS was calling on the other side. To me, it just seems that he's clueless.

22 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

The same people ripping Ulbrich are the same people who were calling for Lafluers head 5 weeks into last season.  Some never learn.

You're getting just as bad as SAR1 was... The difference is that LaFleur acknowledged that something was wrong and fixed it. His offensive play calling was horrible the first 5 games. I know some are going to blame Wilson who knows. Maybe he was trying to keep the offense simple for his rookie QB. But, when he went upstairs and even when Wilson came back his game plans were at least creative, with little or nothing on offense to speak of as far as players are concerned. Ulbrich has has over a year now, and the same thing over and over. Hope you're right that he turns it around, but nothing I've seen has demonstrated that up to this point even with better players.

[Biggs]

He's set a very low floor.  I think there's a lot of room for improvement.  

[SickJetFan]

13 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I read it.  Seems like bullsh*t to me.  Yes, they sucked last year.  Yes, they traded up and lost picks that could have helped the D.  I agree with that, but everybody is in love with Johnson and Hall, so they can't whine about it (like I can).  

The scheme needs athletes, but it is bullsh*t to act like they have to swap the scheme because they aren't loaded with first round picks.  Yes, the Seahawks had all-pros.  OTOH, Earl Thomas was a high first, but Wagner was a 2nd and Sherman was a 5th .  Yeah we are trying LB with converted safeties, but they hand-picked these dudes and the studs he is comparing them to were Greenlaw (5th) and Warner (3rd).  Sure they had Armstead, Ward and Bosa, but the Jets have some high picks too and Armstead was kind of a bust before they arrived.

The Jets went with a clean slate rebuild.  The D sucked last year, but that is exactly when you install your system and don't mix and match sh*t to fit the crap you have.  If you believe in the system, you stick with it.  I am not in love with the system or the coaches running it, but they have to coach what they know and believe in.  

yeah I read this yesterday too and thought pretty much the same.  I dont think adding 1st round safeties and ILB will fix anything here.  The players do seem confused at times and to me a lot of the ILB and safeties always seem to have their back to the ball once snapped like they are racing to get somewhere instead of attacking which i find weird.  I think Ulbrich is a good skapegoat for Saleh to have.  Hopefully once the season gets started they will be blitzing more and help the DL get to the QB.  Lawson may save them all by himself (hopefully).

[Greenbloodblitz]

Funny I was actually just going to post about this and somebody already started a thread days ago.

Ulbrich doesn't come off like The brightest bulb. I can definitely be wrong maybe he's a great coach. Maybe the players love him?

He kind of reminds me of that dude that you pick up that sits in the backseat when you and a few buddies are going out for the night. You know that guy, he's not in charge of the radio or where we're going. Idk.. I just have a feeling if we're losing games this year this is the first guy getting canned.

[JustInFudge]

16 hours ago, AZSOJ said:

 

I think all of you should read this post and then think about this scheme, the players and the CS.   Huston, we have a problem.... and it sits with the HC/CS who should make adjustments to the scheme based on personnel... that is coaching 101. 

Jets X factor does a really great article on the jets scheme, weaknesses. dependence on talent and what to expect this year. Really great article. If you are going to read one article today this should be the one. Even if you hate the Jets there is a lot here for you too. The article was too big to copy the entire thing and I had to divide it into 3 posts.

https://jetsxfactor.com/2022/08/24/system-personnel-game-planning/

 

BTW - Our DC blows. 

Yeah, I disagree wholeheartedly with this take.  First and foremost, I explained the scheme and what they want to do, 2 pages ago, ignored probably because it was actual content and not feelings but I digress.  In that explanation of what they want to do, I shared that they simply could not do it last year, especially when Joyner went out early.  But just because they didnt have the players, that doesnt mean you give up and throw your scheme out the window.  You have to find who is going to fit it and the Jets were never going to be competitive last year.  So they committed to the scheme, deployed what they access too and the results were bad, duh but they learned from those lumps.  That secondary was historically inexperienced and you need lots of reps in this scheme because the eye discipline demand.  The result of this commitment, was you had 3 guys emerge in the secondary who are now going to be a big part of the fixture; Carter, Echols, Pinnock.  The value in the experience they gained should be huge when you couple that with a newly acquired veteran lead starting group sans Sauce, who is going to be a superstar.  

Time will tell if it all pays off, but I can assure, nobody in this thread knows if it will based on what's happened in the preseason.

[JustInFudge]

16 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I read it.  Seems like bullsh*t to me.  Yes, they sucked last year.  Yes, they traded up and lost picks that could have helped the D.  I agree with that, but everybody is in love with Johnson and Hall, so they can't whine about it (like I can).  

The scheme needs athletes, but it is bullsh*t to act like they have to swap the scheme because they aren't loaded with first round picks.  Yes, the Seahawks had all-pros.  OTOH, Earl Thomas was a high first, but Wagner was a 2nd and Sherman was a 5th .  Yeah we are trying LB with converted safeties, but they hand-picked these dudes and the studs he is comparing them to were Greenlaw (5th) and Warner (3rd).  Sure they had Armstead, Ward and Bosa, but the Jets have some high picks too and Armstead was kind of a bust before they arrived.

The Jets went with a clean slate rebuild.  The D sucked last year, but that is exactly when you install your system and don't mix and match sh*t to fit the crap you have.  If you believe in the system, you stick with it.  I am not in love with the system or the coaches running it, but they have to coach what they know and believe in.  

This.  100%.  The idea the "scheme" stinks is just ignorance.  It's the scheme that shut down Manning and the greatest offense ever and a bunch of teams have been trying to copy it since.  There is a reason why Gus Bradley, Dan Quinn and Robert Saleh all went on to HC'ing gigs off that Seattle staff.  

 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Gus Bradley, Dan Quinn and Robert Saleh all went on to HC'ing gigs off that Seattle staff.  

What a list of luminaries

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

What a list of luminaries

Gus sucked but Dan Quinn took the Falcons to the Super Bowl.  Pretty good if you ask me.

Jury still out on Robert Saleh, unless ofcourse you're T0mShane who is convinced he's terrible because Adam Gase.

 

[T0mShane]

48 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Gus sucked but Dan Quinn took the Falcons to the Super Bowl.  Pretty good if you ask me.

Jury still out on Robert Saleh, unless ofcourse you're T0mShane who is convinced he's terrible because Adam Gase.

 

That was Kyle Shanahan and Matt Ryan, tyvm. The 2016 Falcons finished 1st in points scored, 2nd in yardage on offense, but finished 27th/25th on defense. 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

That was Kyle Shanahan and Matt Ryan, tyvm. The 2016 Falcons finished 1st in points scored, 2nd in yardage on offense, but finished 27th/25th on defense. 

When Dan Quinn was head coach and they went to the Super Bowl under his leadership?  Neat!