Rosenblatt article on offensive collapse: Zach sucked, players preffered Mike White

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Did he just call Mangini a "rah rah" guy?  What?

He is a do it my way coach.  Why are we doing it that way?  Shut the **** up.  Because that is how I said to do it.  Now, what is the name of the practice squad free safeties wife's cat? 

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, football guy said:

Criticize the player all you want, hate him for all I care, but this is entirely made up story but Schultz. Not surprising considering he has a reputation for making things up/pushing misleading information... just seeing an opportunity to piggyback and "one up" Rosenblatt's story. 

This story didn't make sense to me so I'm glad you're saying it was entirely made up.  Obviously if it's true, then ZW needs to go.  But isn't he known to be a hard worker?  And wouldn't there have been a mutiny at the time?  

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

We could very well be looking back a year from now saying:

”yeah, the Jags game was a clear sign Saleh had already lost the locker room.  Should have moved on then.”

Saleh has major problems. If they try to bring in another kid coach to be OC, you can start the egg timer on Saleh’s career. 

[dbatesman]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Douglas’s drafts in Philly: 

 

If these were Douglas's drafts, then I guess we should have kept Maccagnan, because all those drafts were actually Brian Heimerdinger's fault.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

This story didn't make sense to me so I'm glad you're saying it was entirely made up.  Obviously if it's true, then ZW needs to go.  But isn't he known to be a hard worker?  And wouldn't there have been a mutiny at the time?  

The story references Zach being averse to the meetings/classroom side of football, which tracks. Kid has ADD. Josh Allen had similar issues and Daboll started holding chalk talks on an actual 20 yard football field so Allen would be able to see the practical application

[JoJoTownsell1]

On 1/19/2023 at 9:57 AM, derp said:

Was a good article. I honestly think Saleh has shielded a variety of big and small mistakes that Joe Douglas has made. Saleh is absolutely not blameless but he takes more heat and Douglas is far more responsible for the mess.

This offseason the Jets are a 7-10 team with no quarterback, tackles, center, or cap space. They’re not heading into an Ozzie Newsome methodical offseason, we’re heading into a pick your Mike (Tannenbaum, Maccagnan) scramble to throw together a roster type offseason. 

Every NFL team has holes.  It's the coaches job to make the best with what the GM has provided.  The giants roster is horrible but Daboll doesn't make excuses, he finds ways to win. 

Saleh was handed 3 rookie of the year candidates in this year's draft. JD isn't the problem.  

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

If these were Douglas's drafts, then I guess we should have kept Maccagnan, because all those drafts were actually Brian Heimerdinger's fault.

Douglas was VP of personnel. I listed the Eagles drafts for context.

[varjet]

57 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

C'mon.  Is there anyone on earth that thought Becton was going outside the first or Mims outside the 2nd?  I get that they're mentality might be a drawback, but they both did pretty well under Gase.  I think we are just fitting sh*t into a narrative now.  I can't speak to Wilson because he seemed like a pretty big gamble, but they were all getting drafted whether you think they "had zero shot of ever working in in the NFL based off of personality alone."

There are NFL draft busts in every draft because players get picked where they should not have.

Certain players look good on paper, or played well in college against future grocery baggers, but then can't translate it to the pro game that requires alot more of the players.

It is the job of a good GM to figure that out.  In hindsight, guys like Becton, Mims and Wilson did not have what it takes to be good NFL players..  In large part it is a deficiency between the ears.  

[#27TheDominator]

FWIW, I did not want to fire Mangini after 2008.  I felt linking themselves to that drunken anchor that did not actually want to play here was a mistake and I am not surprised they imploded down the stretch.  I'd have given them another year to see if they could make the  playoffs.  Same with Pete Carroll.  Everybody gets hung up on this great collapse.  Do you know who had teams that collapsed regularly down the stretch?  Tom Coughlin.  8 straight Eli's rookie year before they won the finale against the Cowboys.  6 of the last 8 in 2006,  3 of the last 5 in 2008 winning in OT against the Panthers.  8 of the last 11 in 2009.  sh*t.  Even when they won the super bowl in 2011 they had a 4 game losing streak and lost 5 of their last 8.  Coughlin's teams traditionally swooned down the stretch, but they still stood up twice and won the big game.  I think we'd be happy enough with that resume. 

[Dinamite]

See update from McFee show debunking it.

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, varjet said:

There are NFL draft busts in every draft because players get picked where they should not have.

Certain players look good on paper, or played well in college against future grocery baggers, but then can't translate it to the pro game that requires alot more of the players.

It is the job of a good GM to figure that out.  In hindsight, guys like Becton, Mims and Wilson did not have what it takes to be good NFL players..  In large part it is a deficiency between the ears.  

Absolutely true.  This is assuredly why Mims was available late 2nd.  Does he have any less of a deficiency between the ears than Antonio Brown or TO?  Sometimes those guys require different coaching.  Randy Moss was a notorious dog with Oakland, but went to the Patriots and did pretty well. 

[Dinamite]

 

[dbatesman]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Douglas was VP of personnel. I listed the Eagles drafts for context.

You know what I mean. Silly season around here.

[slimjasi]

21 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The story references Zach being averse to the meetings/classroom side of football, which tracks. Kid has ADD. Josh Allen had similar issues and Daboll started holding chalk talks on an actual 20 yard football field so Allen would be able to see the practical application

Eh, sounds like the story was hogwash. 

It doesn't make any sense that the first time we'd be hearing about Zach being late to meetings/not working hard is two weeks after the season is over from a nobody like Schultz. If he were consistently showing up late to meetings during the season, we would have gotten an inkling sometime after the NE game from the big Adam Schefter types. The media was all over Zach Wilson at that point. 

I'm gonna ride with Rapoport on this one. 

[oatmeal]

19 minutes ago, Dinamite said:

 

 

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Eh, sounds like the story was hogwash. 

It doesn't make any sense that the first time we'd be hearing about Zach being late to meetings/not working hard is two weeks after the season is over from a nobody like Schultz. If he were consistently showing up late to meetings during the season, we would have gotten an inkling sometime after the NE game from the big Adam Schefter types. The media was all over Zach Wilson at that point. 

I'm gonna ride with Rapoport on this one. 

 

28 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The story references Zach being averse to the meetings/classroom side of football, which tracks. Kid has ADD. Josh Allen had similar issues and Daboll started holding chalk talks on an actual 20 yard football field so Allen would be able to see the practical application

So let’s all put on our thinking caps 

1. LaFleur had to dumb down the offense for Zach 

2. Zach Wilson never missed a meeting and is a hard worker 

WTF am I missing here?

Is Zach Wilson just stupid? 
 

[56mehl56]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Watching the Jets play this season, Wilson had plenty of openings to run the ball where he simply refused to take them. I don’t know if it’s his programming or if he’s afraid to get hurt, but the dude was allergic to running forward. Appeared in nine games, had 28 rushes, which is crazy for a player who faces as much man to man defense as he does and has the speed he does.

But he did run a little more last season. I think this was a Sanchez type scenario where the CS was cautioning him not to run , especially after the 2nd knee injury this PS 

[C Mart]

39 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

This story didn't make sense to me so I'm glad you're saying it was entirely made up.  Obviously if it's true, then ZW needs to go.  But isn't he known to be a hard worker?  And wouldn't there have been a mutiny at the time?  

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet

The on-field product was not what anyone wanted. But Zach Wilson worked insanely hard, was on time and did what was necessary to prepare.

[Matt39]

30 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Absolutely true.  This is assuredly why Mims was available late 2nd.  Does he have any less of a deficiency between the ears than Antonio Brown or TO?  Sometimes those guys require different coaching.  Randy Moss was a notorious dog with Oakland, but went to the Patriots and did pretty well. 

It’s a competitive trait. AB and TO at least had that. Becton just wants to be a victim. Mims is just in la la land.

[56mehl56]

53 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Becton was pulling himself out of every other game as a rookie. Kid had no shot to be a pro lineman. The Jets weren’t in any position to be taking such a risk imo.

Complete BS and revisionist history. Even though Becton was a larger guy no one could have predicted he'd get injured. Injuries happen to any and all NFL players despite shape , size and conditioning. 

[slimjasi]

4 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

 

 

So let’s all put on our thinking caps 

1. LaFleur had to dumb down the offense for Zach 

2. Zach Wilson never missed a meeting and is a hard worker 

WTF am I missing here?

Is Zach Wilson just stupid? 
 

"Think of how stupid the average person is and then realize that half them are stupider than that"

George Carlin

(he should have used "median" instead of average, but you get the point!)

[football guy]

30 minutes ago, Dinamite said:

 

It was a totally made up story by Schultz. He has a deep history of making sh*t up for clickbait. In 2022-23 that isn’t frowned upon unfortunately.

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

Complete BS and revisionist history. Even though Becton was a larger guy no one could have predicted he'd get injured. Injuries happen to any and all NFL players despite shape , size and conditioning. 

Not really. Identifying him being soft could have been figured out.

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Not really. Identifying him being soft could have been figured out.

Having an injury doesn't make him soft. There's enough sh*t to worry about , you guys don't need to start BS rumours . 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

Having an injury doesn't make him soft. There's enough sh*t to worry about , you guys don't need to start BS rumours . 

He pulled himself out of a game for a cough. Skipped OTA’s etc. There were plenty of flags predraft that should have been identified. Especially…especially with Wirfs available. 

[56mehl56]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

He pulled himself out of a game for a cough. Skipped OTA’s etc. There were plenty of flags predraft that should have been identified. Especially…especially with Wirfs available. 

I don't know where to even start with you , so I won't , continue on with your rant about everything Jets . 

[thebuzzardman]

51 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The story references Zach being averse to the meetings/classroom side of football, which tracks. Kid has ADD. Josh Allen had similar issues and Daboll started holding chalk talks on an actual 20 yard football field so Allen would be able to see the practical application

You'd think the amphetamines he takes for that would speed up his decision making processes on the field. 

[TuscanyTile2]

13 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet

The on-field product was not what anyone wanted. But Zach Wilson worked insanely hard, was on time and did what was necessary to prepare.

The one bad thing about this is that it means ZW was trying his hardest and still put up Jamarcus Russell numbers.  Meanwhile, Jamarcus Russell wasn't working hard at all.

There's a famous story where the coaches suspected Jamarcus wasn't watching video so they sent him home with a video that had a bunch of plays and they asked him to watch it and let them know which ones he preferred to run.  The next day he said "all of them".  However, the coaches intentionally gave him a blank tape.  In other words, they knew he lied and wasn't watching tape at all.  THAT is the guy ZW compares to, statistically.

[C Mart]

Just now, TuscanyTile2 said:

The one bad thing about this is that it means ZW was trying his hardest and still put up Jamarcus Russell numbers.  Meanwhile, Jamarcus Russell wasn't working hard at all.

There's a famous story where the coaches suspected Jamarcus wasn't watching video so they sent him home with a video that had a bunch of plays and they asked him to watch it and let them know which ones he preferred to run.  The next day he said "all of them".  However, the coaches intentionally gave him a blank tape.  In other words, they knew he lied and wasn't watching tape at all.  THAT is the guy ZW compares to, statistically.

I believe Alex Smith had comparable stats. I could be wrong. 

[Dunnie]

Complete BS and revisionist history. Even though Becton was a larger guy no one could have predicted he'd get injured. Injuries happen to any and all NFL players despite shape , size and conditioning. 

I remember thinking WHOA when he was drafted and saw how massive he was. I was worried about knee issues immediately.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[56mehl56]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

The one bad thing about this is that it means ZW was trying his hardest and still put up Jamarcus Russell numbers.  Meanwhile, Jamarcus Russell wasn't working hard at all.

There's a famous story where the coaches suspected Jamarcus wasn't watching video so they sent him home with a video that had a bunch of plays and they asked him to watch it and let them know which ones he preferred to run.  The next day he said "all of them".  However, the coaches intentionally gave him a blank tape.  In other words, they knew he lied and wasn't watching tape at all.  THAT is the guy ZW compares to, statistically.

Working hard and being a good teammate does not equate to on field performance , they are two entirely different things. I can see fans killing ZW for his on field performance the rest of the stuff is petty douchebagery. 

[Matt39]

26 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I don't know where to even start with you , so I won't , continue on with your rant about everything Jets . 

Bectons career went really well. 

[Larz]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Absolutely true.  This is assuredly why Mims was available late 2nd.  Does he have any less of a deficiency between the ears than Antonio Brown or TO?  Sometimes those guys require different coaching.  Randy Moss was a notorious dog with Oakland, but went to the Patriots and did pretty well. 

I saw something on Mims last summer where he was crediting Moore I think with helping him with his body and conditioning.  I don’t think it a processing information issue as much as commitment and motivation. He’s not a natural receiver either. Some nice grabs but a lot of body catches too. I actually think he was drafted too soon based on his college profile because he fits into the “size/speed “ thing that NFL teams covet

[pointman]

On 1/19/2023 at 8:48 AM, T0mShane said:

Zach sucked, the receivers didn’t want to play with him, Saleh was a weak, passive jellyfish, LaFleur took the brunt of the blame even though he hated Zach, and when White got hurt against the Bills, the season was over. Good read, even if it’s well covered ground for us. 
 

 

Breaking news! After January, February will come. Stay tuned for more developments.

[56mehl56]

26 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I remember thinking WHOA when he was drafted and saw how massive he was. I was worried about knee issues immediately.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Didn't seem to be a problem for Trent Brown , Orlando Brown or Jordan Falelee . 

[derp]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Every NFL team has holes.  It's the coaches job to make the best with what the GM has provided.  The giants roster is horrible but Daboll doesn't make excuses, he finds ways to win. 

Saleh was handed 3 rookie of the year candidates in this year's draft. JD isn't the problem.  

Saleh isn't perfect. Joe Douglas is absolutely a big problem.

Saleh got those rookies to play very well, while they were healthy. He has also been handed 0 NFL caliber quarterbacks for two consecutive years.

Joe Douglas drafted a raw quarterback second overall, had zero contingency plan in case he wasn't ready, went into the next offseason and still didn't add an adequate contingency plan. His first draft class is a complete goose egg at this point. His rebuilt offensive line has exactly one long term starter on it and he needs answers at both tackle spots and center despite having two drafts to add developmental players at tackle and center knowing that Fant and McGovern would be free agents after this season.

He's traded significant mid-round capital that could've been used to build the depth of the roster for prospects who, mostly due to injury, they got very little out of this year. He abandoned his pragmatic spending this past offseason and pushed 2023 cap space into the 2022 roster to put together a 7-10 team - largely because of poor quarterback play and lack of depth - and now he needs to start cutting guys to improve the roster as he tries to find a quarterback, build an offensive line again, and improve the middle of the defense. He's made a lot of mistakes for the five good draft picks and one good free agent signing he's made.

Every GM makes bad picks. To me, the most concerning thing is that he came in labeled as pragmatic and methodical and in the draft and last free agency period he's been very, very aggressive - trading up, not taking obvious trade downs, not having good depth at key positions - but he's not good enough at evaluating to compensate for that. I wanted a methodical guy who's going to operate like the Ravens organization he came from and maximize assets, thought he kind of seemed like that when he came in, and it's just not who we've gotten at all the last couple of offseasons. He's going to run out of real estate to make the kinds of moves he's made because they compound over time and his hit rate just isn't good enough for him to be making them.