Rosenblatt article on offensive collapse: Zach sucked, players preffered Mike White

[56mehl56]

2 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

What really makes it bad is it was clear he was not NFL ready, yet they treated him like he was NFL ready, and really had no plan to get him NFL ready and just hoped throwing him out would get him there. If they had a legit plan in place that recognized his weaknesses, but they had a plan to address his weaknesses and play to his strengths, it would have been bad, but its far worse when you realize they had absolutely no plan in place

 

I don't feel the initial plan was flawed as everyone was starting at square one. Where in hindsight the plan went south was multi-faceted

1) Zach wasn't as ready as they had believed.

2) Knapp's tragic passing.

3) MLF being so rigid and forcing his system onto the players w/o seemingly much adaptability.

4) Not replacing Knapp with a quality hire.

5) Zach's two knee injuries plus Oline and Hall injuries.

6) This season the Jets D evolving faster than anyone anticipated and putting them in a playoff hunt in a year that was meant to further evaluate ZW. 

[RutgersJetFan]

14 minutes ago, football guy said:

I don't know what I have to prove... it came from the horses mouth. I would recommend polling players and have them tell you whether coaching impacts their production, then we can revisit this discussion. 

Thanks for the recommendation I'll get right on that.

[Bugg]

5 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I have eyes.  I hear this story about rolling out about every sh*tty QB we have ever have.  I watched Zach WIlson on designed roll outs launching lollipops straight up into the air.  Throws that became 50-50 balls for no good reason.  I am not sure that I could disagree more. Roll outs cut the field in half at best and are not a sustainable strategy, but Zach WIlson was not succeeding when they were called.  

Cannot as your base offense roll out most passing downs. Defenders will recognize it pretty quickly and since you're only using a fraction of the field have DBs fill the space accordingly. 

[Bugg]

5 hours ago, derp said:

Here's this talented QB who desperately needs high level coaching in order to be functional at the NFL level. I've got a green offensive coaching staff who's never done the job before, aside from Greg Knapp. This is clearly the group to develop him. And there's obviously no need to have another starting caliber NFL quarterback on the roster in case he's not ready day one. He did play behind the best OL in college against a cupcake schedule last year and only has a one year track record of success, so this should be fine.

It's not like these decisions are made in a vacuum. Douglas knew who the coaching staff would be when he picked Wilson. If he's that raw I don't care how talented he is, that stuff needs to be factored in. And if he didn't think Wilson was that raw, then it's a terrible evaluation.

Not sure Wilson is all that talented in the 1st place. This pick was a massive f___up. 

[RutgersJetFan]

2 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Not sure Wilson is all that talented in the 1st place. This pick was a massive f___up. 

F-up yes, massive who knows. Wilson checked out about as much as Allen did. Always more of a gamble when you're not drafting 1.

 

[derp]

4 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Not sure Wilson is all that talented in the 1st place. This pick was a massive f___up. 

I think he’s talented in the mobility and throw the ball far ways, which is why he got drafted high, but that half tongue in cheek post was written from the perspective of the talented GM. Get what you’re saying. I think the problem is he’s not good at the important but more subtle quarterback stuff.

[Bugg]

3 hours ago, win4ever said:

MLF reminds me of my AP Calculus teacher in high school.  One of the smartest math guys I've ever met, could easily solve equations I didn't even understand.  He had 8 kids in the class, and all of them graduated top 10.   Not a single one of us understood calculus that year, the AP test was bombed by everyone because he just didn't know how to teach.  He could show you how it's done, but he couldn't make any of us actually understand the process of how it's done.  

MLF reminds me of the guy.  He's scheming up open receivers, but he doesn't teach the process on how it occurs.  Going back to math, it was like the example question in a workbook that showed you how it's done.  But the very next question had one extra quirk and you had no idea how to deal with it.   This was my reply on Reddit to a similar question about MLF and the pros and cons.

Pro: He's good at scheming guys open, and that's a fairly overused phrase. In essence, he does a good job of moving guys around to have favorable matchups, and route combinations to get guys open.

I'm going to use a flood concept to the field side as an example, with three options. A quick hitter to the RB, a mid cross to a TE from the boundary side, and a deep cross from the boundary side as well. A deep clear out from the field side receiver. It's a concept that everyone uses, nothing fancy. The idea is that the QB rolls out into space, he has 3 tier level options with the option to run if all are well covered in man coverage.

The good part is that MLF moves around receivers late that the TE on the mid cross has inside leverage on the LB, the safety bites on the deep clear out, giving you a shot at the deep cross as well. The outlet to the RB is standard, nothing special about it. On tape, 2 of the guys are open, QB takes the outlet to RB for short gain.

He schemed up a good play, guys are open. He's very good at that.

The downside is that the scheme rarely has contingencies for unpredictable events.

Let's take the same play concept.

However in this case, the safety doesn't bite on the clear out, therefore the deep cross pattern is now out as an option. The second linebacker blitzes off the field side edge, but the RB releases out of the pocket.

At this point, the deep cross is covered, the TE hasn't made it across the formation yet, and since he's not hot, he isn't ready for the ball. The QB either has to evade the LB blitz, or dump it quickly to the RB. Defenses started to expect the quick dump off and having defenders ready for the RB quick pass.

What he needed to adjust was, the clear out needs a dual purpose. Instead of just clearing out, it needs a secondary route option so if things break down, they have a deep post. The RB needs to do a chip block release, because part of the set up is timing, and delaying the LB allows the TE to cross the formation.

Unfortunately he doesn't seem to do a good job of teaching, rather he does a good job of creating. The part that he's missing right now is getting the players to understand how to execute the system when defenses don't respect parts of the offense.

Going back to the flood concept, if defenses don't respect the clear out and RB release, your options are very limited. You then have to take deep shots across the field to readjust their plan. Unfortunately, he sticks to the gameplan (admittedly good at implementation), and that means low ceiling plays with 3 and outs.

Except what if you tried to teach calculus to a room of kids who couldn't do basic math, nor geometry nor algebra? Wilson played begin a relatively massive BYU line playing air raid football in a sh*tbag conference. So he never saw a real SEC pass rush spare 1x, which he didn't handle all that well.  So you try to forcefeed him quadratic equations and matrix calculus, not gonna work.  

[Bugg]

2 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

F-up yes, massive who knows. Wilson checked out about as much as Allen did. Always more of a gamble when you're not drafting 1.

 

Allen is 4 inches taller and runs like a fullback. So, not really. 

[peekskill68]

2 hours ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I don't think MLF is a good OC at this point in his career, but I feel bad for him, he was put in a position to fail and he did. He did not step up and take leadership responsibility, and that is on him, but he was not ready for this role, which is on the Jets.

 

The common theme in all this seems to be Douglas.  He seems willing to take these high risks swings (Becton vs. Wirfs for example) without any thought to hedging his bets.  So he scrambles/panics when things go sideways (overpaying for Duane Brown, no real back up for Wilson, etc.).  He is a first time GM who hired a first time HC, and who allowed this coach to hire a first time OC.  I can't tell if this is just inexperience here or massive hubris...

[RutgersJetFan]

1 minute ago, Bugg said:

Allen is 4 inches taller and runs like a fullback. So, not really. 

Oh calm your boobs. I was being facetious. Allen's QBASE scores were terrible.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

In Week 6, the Jets won in Green Bay, even though Wilson completed only 10 of 18 passes for 110 yards while playing through a separation of the AC joint in his left shoulder.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Just now, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

In Week 6, the Jets won in Green Bay, even though Wilson completed only 10 of 18 passes for 110 yards while playing through a separation of the AC joint in his left shoulder.

Don’t recall this injury ever being reported.

When and how did it happen?

[Bugg]

3 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Don’t recall this injury ever being reported.

When and how did it happen?

If true, Jets could be heavily fined for not complying with NFL injury reporting rules. Probably does happen all the time though, especially with skill position guys. Why should I tell a defense where my QB has an issue? 

[Maxman]

7 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Also since when the **** are jellyfish weak

@T0mShane just taunts them because he likes getting peed on.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

6 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

The team was winning so MLF continued to not say anything and Saleh felt there was no need to rock the boat . imo the Moore blow-up was what set this death spiral in motion and in essence opened all eyes. 

So Moore poisoned the entire team with his me first attitude? 

Agreed. 

[CanadienJetsFan]

This was quite a difficult article to read because it reinforced my opinion from the very first day Saleh was hired and JD traded Sam: Rookie HC + Rookie OC + Rookie DC + Rookie QB = Lots of growing pains and lots of bad football along the way.

Boy do I wish I was wrong.

Lafleur had to fall on the sword…It’s his job , not the players, to make all necessary adjustments. He didn’t 

Good coaches do, bad coaches can't.

Saleh is ultimately to blame for he hand picked Lafleur thinking he can. 

You got to question their coaching prowess if you were Woody. you must.

Even if the plan is to bring back Zach, ( understanding that they'll buy themselves a veteran QB and Zach gets to carry a clipboard)  just how can you be sure that they don't mess it up again???

IMO, Seeing that they failed face first trying to develop Zach, there’s zero reason in keeping Saleh as well. But I know Woody doesn’t have the stones to go get a Payton.

BTW, thanks  @Football guy for his inside info.

@football guy

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

1 hour ago, peekskill68 said:

The common theme in all this seems to be Douglas.  He seems willing to take these high risks swings (Becton vs. Wirfs for example) without any thought to hedging his bets.  So he scrambles/panics when things go sideways (overpaying for Duane Brown, no real back up for Wilson, etc.).  He is a first time GM who hired a first time HC, and who allowed this coach to hire a first time OC.  I can't tell if this is just inexperience here or massive hubris...

What does having no back up  for Wilson mean?  There are very few good NFL back ups (just like there are very few good NFL QBs).  Having a good back up QB is a short term solution designed to win games in one particular season. It is NOT a long term solution for a QB needy team.  A good back up can get a team wins in a playoff push season, but he is rarely able to step in as the future franchise QB if the young gun doesn't work out.  The Jets were not expected to challenge for the playoffs in 2022.  So if the Jets had a top notch back up QB - say Minshew (who some people on this board love, but he looks like nothing more than a very good back up and spot starter to me), what would that have done?  The Jets maybe - maybe win 2-3 more games and make the playoffs as the 6 or 7 seed. And maybe they compete like Miami and Baltimore did in a wild card game. Most likely, that move gets the Jets one more week of football.

And then some people here can be happy and say that the Jets broke the playoff drought. But what would that mean for 2023?  The QB problem would still exist.  

And all I heard the entire season was that Flacco was the answer to the QB question early in the season when Wilson was injured and that White was the answer later to the QB question later in the season when Wilson was benched. When neither worked out, it became Douglas' fault because he didn't sign some posters back up QB of choice (which varied from week to week among the likes of Trubisky, Minshew, Mayfield, and other has beens, never was, and never will bes). 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Rosenblatt in The Athletic with a little deep dive into what happened with LaFleur. Pretty much what we observed and heard from @football guy and @Mogglez, but the takeaway is that Zach sucked, the receivers didn’t want to play with him, Saleh was a weak, passive jellyfish, LaFleur took the brunt of the blame even though he hated Zach, and when White got hurt against the Bills, the season was over. Good read, even if it’s well covered ground for us. 
 

https://theathletic.com/4091050/2023/01/19/jets-offense-zach-wilson-robert-saleh-mike-lafleur/?source=pulsenewsletter&campaign=5932978

a quote:

Meanwhile, Zach Wilson sought to find the “fun” in football again. He called some former NFL quarterbacks who hit rough patches early in their careers for advice: Kurt Warner, Drew Brees and Young. Warner told The Athletic that he “enjoyed” talking to Wilson and getting to know him, though he wanted to keep their conversation private. He did say that Wilson’s willingness to make those calls is a positive sign.

“I think there’s a lot of things to learn when you’re open to believing you still have something to learn, and areas you can grow,” Warner said. “I respect him a lot for reaching out and listening … (but) it’s one thing to reach out and listen, and it’s another thing to be willing to do what it takes to change.”

 

Mike LaFleur’s offense initially took off under Mike White (above), but it crashed after White’s rib injury pushed Zach Wilson back into the starting lineup. (Mark Konezny / USA Today)

The Jets had planned to keep Wilson benched through the end of the season, but White suffered fractured ribs against the Bills in Week 14. Saleh named Wilson the starter for Week 15. In practice that week, Wilson threw a series of incompletions during team drills that frustrated Jets receivers, and the struggles carried into games.

You and I read different articles with regard to how Saleh came off.  I thought he comes off as a coach who, when faced with a boatload of issues, did what good leaders do - shield those below him as much as possible.  

[rangerous]

9 hours ago, BP said:

Wow shocking! No accountability at all. Wilson couldn’t complete passes in practice? Are you ******* kidding me? And then dopey saleh has him starting while the jets are dressed as circus performers?

At this point I don’t know who sucks more, Zach or saleh. Maybe they should both go read a book on a beach.

Do you think saleh starts zwilson without consulting milfy?  I seriously doubt milfy made his opinion heard or saleh is a lying turd since he’s been talking all about getting everyone on the same page and so on. In the article it says milfy told zwilson to only go to the first and second reads. After that he’s supposed to run. If Moore is the third read and zwilson was told to only look at the first two does that explain Moore not being targeted?  Sure sounds like it.  Zwilson should’ve sat for a season but I’m not so sure milfy’s offense would’ve done much better.

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

So Moore poisoned the entire team with his me first attitude? 

Agreed. 

That's what I also thought at the time. Turns out MLF had as much blame if not more for that situation. 

[Barton]

4 hours ago, football guy said:

Lol. Seriously though. I'm being totally honest with the fact that people inside the building were staunch defenders of Mike LaFleur. It wasn't just Saleh. The guy is extremely intelligent and he's a nice dude. The problem is that he truly lacked a lot of the leadership and confrontational skills required for a person in his position. You can get away with that being a PGC on Kyle Shanahan's staff. You can't when you're the head guy on offense. 

Not surprised. The dude said his wife is the leader of his family and she sat at the head of the table while he sat on the side like alittle boy. Was in 1 of the jets weekly videos. When I saw that, I said jets are doomed.

[maury77]

2 hours ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

This was quite a difficult article to read because it reinforced my opinion from the very first day Saleh was hired and JD traded Sam: Rookie HC + Rookie OC + Rookie DC + Rookie QB = Lots of growing pains and lots of bad football along the way.

Boy do I wish I was wrong.

Lafleur had to fall on the sword…It’s his job , not the players, to make all necessary adjustments. He didn’t 

Good coaches do, bad coaches can't.

Saleh is ultimately to blame for he hand picked Lafleur thinking he can. 

You got to question their coaching prowess if you were Woody. you must.

Even if the plan is to bring back Zach, ( understanding that they'll buy themselves a veteran QB and Zach gets to carry a clipboard)  just how can you be sure that they don't mess it up again???

IMO, Seeing that they failed face first trying to develop Zach, there’s zero reason in keeping Saleh as well. But I know Woody doesn’t have the stones to go get a Payton.

BTW, thanks  @Football guy for his inside info.

@football guy

RE the bolded part, that also falls on Douglas. When he was interviewing HC candidates, I presume the candidates told Douglas who they planned on hiring as their staff. Douglas knew that he was going to get first timers at HC, OC and DC along with probably drafting Wilson (who Douglas was reportedly smitten with as early as December). I articulated the same concerns you did back then, how could Douglas not foresee the current situation happening?

[peekskill68]

1 hour ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

What does having no back up  for Wilson mean?  There are very few good NFL back ups (just like there are very few good NFL QBs).  Having a good back up QB is a short term solution designed to win games in one particular season. It is NOT a long term solution for a QB needy team.  A good back up can get a team wins in a playoff push season, but he is rarely able to step in as the future franchise QB if the young gun doesn't work out.  The Jets were not expected to challenge for the playoffs in 2022.  So if the Jets had a top notch back up QB - say Minshew (who some people on this board love, but he looks like nothing more than a very good back up and spot starter to me), what would that have done?  The Jets maybe - maybe win 2-3 more games and make the playoffs as the 6 or 7 seed. And maybe they compete like Miami and Baltimore did in a wild card game. Most likely, that move gets the Jets one more week of football.

And then some people here can be happy and say that the Jets broke the playoff drought. But what would that mean for 2023?  The QB problem would still exist.  

And all I heard the entire season was that Flacco was the answer to the QB question early in the season when Wilson was injured and that White was the answer later to the QB question later in the season when Wilson was benched. When neither worked out, it became Douglas' fault because he didn't sign some posters back up QB of choice (which varied from week to week among the likes of Trubisky, Minshew, Mayfield, and other has beens, never was, and never will bes). 

On this we agree and I think it's at the core of what went wrong in 2022.  I'm pretty sure JD saw 2022 as another throwaway year to assess roster talent and get Zach snaps along the typical 2nd year QB growth curve.  I suspect he figured 6-8 wins back in the summer.  What he did NOT expect was a) starting off 7-4 and b) Zach showing negative growth.  It put him in a tight spot with an owner and fan base not sniffing the playoffs in over a decade and next to no contingency plan at the QB position if Zach didn't progress at the same speed as the rest of the team. 

[CanadienJetsFan]

15 minutes ago, maury77 said:

RE the bolded part, that also falls on Douglas. When he was interviewing HC candidates, I presume the candidates told Douglas who they planned on hiring as their staff. Douglas knew that he was going to get first timers at HC, OC and DC along with probably drafting Wilson (who Douglas was reportedly smitten with as early as December). I articulated the same concerns you did back then, how could Douglas not foresee the current situation happening?

I still scratch my head why he didn’t hire Pederson . What, was he afraid of Giants backlash?

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

This was quite a difficult article to read because it reinforced my opinion from the very first day Saleh was hired and JD traded Sam: Rookie HC + Rookie OC + Rookie DC + Rookie QB = Lots of growing pains and lots of bad football along the way.

Boy do I wish I was wrong.

Lafleur had to fall on the sword…It’s his job , not the players, to make all necessary adjustments. He didn’t 

Good coaches do, bad coaches can't.

Saleh is ultimately to blame for he hand picked Lafleur thinking he can. 

You got to question their coaching prowess if you were Woody. you must.

Even if the plan is to bring back Zach, ( understanding that they'll buy themselves a veteran QB and Zach gets to carry a clipboard)  just how can you be sure that they don't mess it up again???

IMO, Seeing that they failed face first trying to develop Zach, there’s zero reason in keeping Saleh as well. But I know Woody doesn’t have the stones to go get a Payton.

BTW, thanks  @Football guy for his inside info.

@football guy

Not to worry.  We're among the favorites to land a cast-off QB from the Raiders!

[Charlie Brown]

11 hours ago, football guy said:

 

Kind of gives some insight as to how LaFleur was married to his scheme, which was unnecessarily complex - specifically for the receivers. As we saw, many receivers had been in the dog house through MLF's two year stint here, so this isn't shocking. It had never been disclosed publicly, but we had noted a while back that MLF preferred Flacco/White to Zach in his scheme... he handpicked Zach as the QB he wanted to work with, but when Zach wasn't ready to play from within the pocket the way LaFleur wanted him to, it quickly became a "he" problem. In fairness to MLF, he, like many in the Shanahan tree, saw Zach as a player who can be a Patrick Mahomes-type player if he learned how to be like Kirk Cousins or Jimmy Garoppolo or Mike White 80% of the time while being the second-reaction playmaker 20% of the time. I don't think MLF was wrong. Problem? He didn't raise his hand to say "Zach is not ready to start" during his rookie year (he's known to be conflict avoidant) AND didn't really do much to ensure that Zach was improving in the day-to-day QB drills. In short, he didn't really have a plan. 

Again, a lot of fans on here were openly ranting about Zach's tendency to bail out of the pocket. MLF and the coaches would tell Zach to avoid negative plays at all costs- whether it be sacks or turnovers- and throwing the ball away was a win. He was praised for it internally until the first NE game, and when they lost/the heat was turned up on them, LaFleur then told him "don't do that anymore", which gave a ton of mixed messages. It certainly wasn't appreciated by Zach. He wanted answers "why" but was given non-answers by LaFleur. Still, Zach did listen. He adhered to the quick-pass gameplan against Buffalo and they won. Then, after the bye, the gameplan was to attack the Patriots downfield. There's no defending Zach in terms of how he played, excuses for the wind, offensive line play, and his post-game press conference, but the one thing we didn't see out of Zach that we probably could've used? Trying to extend plays outside of the pocket. Instead of rolling out to avoid the sack or throw the ball away, we saw more sacks. I wonder why... 

This has been detailed at nauseum by now. Moore grew frustrated with MLF, namely because he felt MLF was being fake. MLF said Moore was doing everything right to him and publicly, but was telling Miles Austin something else. But every time MLF would talk to Moore, he didn't say he was doing anything wrong. Finally he asked point blank and MLF basically said, wellll you're doing this this and this wrong, which set Moore off. 

As I've explained a few times on here, Zach got to a point where he hated Connor Hughes. Hughes tries to play buddy buddy with the players, but this year particularly he let his ego get the best of him... instead of being fair and rational, Hughes became more of a hot-take artist. After the first NE game, Hughes used the poor performance as an opportunity to character assassinate Zach by calling him immature, entitled, and selfish. Zach and his PR team took extreme exception to that, with his PR manager telling me (paraphrased) "this guy sucks Zach's d**k for the past year constantly asking for favors, and the first opportunity he gets he doesn't even bother to criticize Zach's game, rather, uses it as an opportunity to character assassinate him." If you look back at Zach's media availability between the first NE game and the last one, you'll notice Zach's hostility towards Connor. Doesn't make him right, but figured it adds more context. The one thing I'll saw that's a little inconsistent here: Zach planned to address the team, but Robert Saleh told him to wait (according to Zach's PR team at least).

Woody told LaFleur that he wouldn't be fired and suggested that decision would be left up to Saleh, but made it clear that MLF wouldn't get an extension, which would've meant MLF would spend 2023 as a lame-duck coach. Typically assistants and coordinators get a 2 or 3 year deal (MLF's was 3 years) and unless they wind up being a super-star coordinator, it's commonplace for them to at least have their contract extended for a year to avoid the "lame-duck" situation... sometimes coaches themselves turn down the extension, but its less common that a coordinator is told they won't have a year tacked onto their deal. 

Late to the party on this thread but if the system is complicated for the WRs it is twice as tough on a young rookie QB!

Indeed, the article points out that the MLF system is complicated for WRs who have been in the West Coast system before!

Coaches have to take a moment to install too much you can make players look awful!\

Look at Derek Carr. 

Gruden saw that Carr was far too conservative, so he opened up the playbook, which made Carr have more turnovers, but yet it made Carr a far more dynamic QB than he had been.  But Gruden stayed away from the middle or intermediary throws from the game plans for Carr because Carr wasn't as good at those throws.

Now.......

Juxtapose this with Josh Mac who stressed less risk-taking and more importantly primarily the use of Intermediary routes and throws which CArr wasn't as good at, and, well you have a QB today that the Raiders are looking to now move on to.

The point, not all QB can do everything, and it takes time for any QB to adjust, and that a smart OC is more than willing to adjust so that his skill players, including the QB can shine!

[HawkeyeJet]

Way late to the party here but glad my favorite argument, whether coaching matter not, has made a strong appearance.

[More Cowbell]

12 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Rosenblatt in The Athletic with a little deep dive into what happened with LaFleur. Pretty much what we observed and heard from @football guy and @Mogglez, but the takeaway is that Zach sucked, the receivers didn’t want to play with him, Saleh was a weak, passive jellyfish, LaFleur took the brunt of the blame even though he hated Zach, and when White got hurt against the Bills, the season was over. Good read, even if it’s well covered ground for us. 
 

https://theathletic.com/4091050/2023/01/19/jets-offense-zach-wilson-robert-saleh-mike-lafleur/?source=pulsenewsletter&campaign=5932978

a quote:

Meanwhile, Zach Wilson sought to find the “fun” in football again. He called some former NFL quarterbacks who hit rough patches early in their careers for advice: Kurt Warner, Drew Brees and Young. Warner told The Athletic that he “enjoyed” talking to Wilson and getting to know him, though he wanted to keep their conversation private. He did say that Wilson’s willingness to make those calls is a positive sign.

“I think there’s a lot of things to learn when you’re open to believing you still have something to learn, and areas you can grow,” Warner said. “I respect him a lot for reaching out and listening … (but) it’s one thing to reach out and listen, and it’s another thing to be willing to do what it takes to change.”

 

Mike LaFleur’s offense initially took off under Mike White (above), but it crashed after White’s rib injury pushed Zach Wilson back into the starting lineup. (Mark Konezny / USA Today)

The Jets had planned to keep Wilson benched through the end of the season, but White suffered fractured ribs against the Bills in Week 14. Saleh named Wilson the starter for Week 15. In practice that week, Wilson threw a series of incompletions during team drills that frustrated Jets receivers, and the struggles carried into games.

Would have liked to have read it but they kept asking me to subscribe 

[section314]

55 minutes ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

I still scratch my head why he didn’t hire Pederson . What, was he afraid of Giants backlash?

Very simple reason. JD didn’t have the #1 pick. Notice how fast Pederson came out of retirement when JAX came calling?

[Charlie Brown]

11 hours ago, Trotter said:

I read it in a different way - not saying my interpretation is correct.

Zach was a mess. He was inexperienced and was struggling with playing the position. MLF and Calabrese seemingly did nothing to help him address these issues. They had a gameplan and were simply trying to get Zach to fit into it.

Saleh needed to step in and take control of the situation but appeared to leave it to the guys he trusted to make the right calls.

If the article is accurate, I actually have an understanding of why Zach always seemed confused and simply not capable of being on the field. He was not being coached and desparatley needed to be.

Going into this season I could care less who the QB is as long as they are capable and can move this offense to wins. I will say in light of that article, I am not sure Zach is the complete bust I thought he was and it actually gave me a bit of hope that with the proper coaching, he could develop.

I am not making excuses for him - you want to say he sucks - have at it - I did for the majority of the season.

But that article is very damning on the coaching staff and makes me give a bit of slack to the qb.

You are 100% Correct and why I have said over and over again that the coaching lapses are ALARMING!!

Parcells used to say that you cannot coach the coaches and guess what this is precisely in many ways what Robert Saleh is trying to do! If MLF is not connecting with your key players either he has to be helped or replaced.... you just can't sit back and "hope" that he gets it right.

Bad Bad Move IMO!!

And I am fan of Saleh, wanted him as the HC and like his attitude but facts are facts!

[VJphillyfan]

Wait so Op is saying Zach Wilson sucked? I am shocked.

[Charlie Brown]

10 hours ago, Biggs said:

Lefleur isn't the boss.  Saleh is.  If you believe the team was divided that's on Saleh.  There is no one else to blame.  The inmates don't run the asylum.  

A new OC doesn't solve this.  A new QB doesn't solve this.  Saleh better figure out what running a football team really means.  Everyone has to be of a single mind and purpose and that clearly wasn't the case.  

I remember when Parcells didn't like the way the OC was calling the plays he called the plays for a few games.  Saleh probably isn't capable of that and that's a big part of the problem.

Thank you, this is an important post!

MLF should NOT have been OC according to this article and when it became evident that there was a problem Saleh let it fester instead of acting decisively, big problem!

[VJphillyfan]

7 hours ago, FactsOnly said:

The season was over when they benched Zach Wilson

5-4 vs 1-4

And if they didn’t bench Zach he’d be 5-7 or 5-8

 

They did your boy a favor, Chris.

[C Mart]

NFL OC

[Asymmetrical]

fwiw in the athletic podcast Rosenblatt gives a recap/some more context. Worth a listen but basically confirms what it looks like without all the entrail readings : #2 overall pick can't play, receivers get mad. MLF and the offense want Mike White because he's capable of completing a forward pass, he breaks every rib he has, season over, someone has to get fired.