Rosenblatt article on offensive collapse: Zach sucked, players preffered Mike White

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

What are you talking about? Lol. Saleh doesn't come off as weak at all. Stop making sht up boy.

Mostly tells us Zach sucking screwed things up and that LaFluer was just not a good communicator and things were way too complex and players expressed that. 

[BP]

Just now, section314 said:

The fact that Saleh let MLF pull all this sh*t and didn’t can him 5 mins after the season ended says all you need to know if he’s the guy to lead this team. 

I don’t think Saleh has a clue about much of anything. He’s another cheerleader jets head coach.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

9 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Yeah, pretty spot on article based on what I heard, but Saleh didn’t have a “jellyfish spine”; White got hurt…again.

Yeah, this whole fn mess is because of our QBs being made of glass and being trash. 

[Asymmetrical]

It is very funny that Zach got goaded into showing his ass by Connor Hughes. If Cimini gets a hard on for him he's going to cry in public.

Send this baby to the moon. 

[Augustiniak]

10 minutes ago, derp said:

What was LaFleur supposed to do when it became evident Wilson wasn’t ready to start? The roster’s pretty much constructed at that point. I get that he was a flawed OC and no issue with having him fired, but the lack of a viable alternative on the team if it turned out he wasn’t ready was a roster construction issue and that falls on Douglas.

Go to the HC and tell him that mike white should start. 

[freestater]

1 minute ago, BP said:

I don’t think Saleh has a clue about much of anything. He’s another cheerleader jets head coach.

I've never been impressed with those who need to rely on cheesy slogans and clichés. 

[SickJetFan]

25 minutes ago, football guy said:

Agreed. By all accounts MLF was the passive one. At the end of the day Saleh relies on MLF to run the offense and keep him in the loop on important developments. Instead of addressing necessary beliefs he kept them to himself/told other staffers. I personally believe MLF can be a very good coordinator one day but he lacked the balls to make critical decisions here... 

one of the things MLF said in training camp caught my eye.  Paraphrasing he was saying something to the effect that Zach should not worry about all 11 guys on defense and he was trying to teach him to focus only on his reads and not worry about where the Safety was or LBs on every play.  Basically telling him to forget about the whole field and to wear blinders.

Which I thought at the time was a really weird take even though Flacco also said something similar in another presser not long after MLF said it.  I mean it is probably a given at times to gloss over such a subject but to emphasize like he did was odd to me.  Weird thing to emphasize to a young QB and also teaching him to run away and throw away at same time.  Basically, forcing him into 1/2 reads and making him susceptible to turnovers not that he probably would have anyway.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, SickJetFan said:

one of the things MLF said in training camp caught my eye.  Paraphrasing he was saying something to the effect that Zach should not worry about all 11 guys on defense and he was trying to teach him to focus only on his reads and not worry about where the Safety was or LBs on every play.  Basically telling him to forget about the whole field and to wear blinders.

Which I thought at the time was a really weird take even though Flacco also said something similar in another presser not long after MLF said it.  I mean it is probably a given at times to gloss over such a subject but to emphasize like he did was odd to me.  Weird thing to emphasize to a young QB and also teaching him to run away and throw away at same time.  Basically, forcing him into 1/2 reads and making him susceptible to turnovers not that he probably would have anyway.

Probably trying to simplify things for a qb who was struggling.  

[Claymation]

12 minutes ago, section314 said:

Zach got us the lead vs Detroit but our great defense spit the bit. Where was the players hatred for Whitehead blowing the assignment on the Lion’s TD? That play and the Berrios drop was the season.

Exactly, but another play was the in NE game where both Whitehead and Joyner missed tackles on 3rd down and forever.

Make that tackle and NE doesn't score, Jets win. 

 

[SickJetFan]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

Probably trying to simplify things for a qb who was struggling.  

This was before the season started and in early days of training camp

[Augustiniak]

Just now, SickJetFan said:

This was before the season started and in early days of training camp

Exactly.  My guess is that MLF knew right away what he was dealing with

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Just now, Claymation said:

Exactly, but another play was the in NE game where both Whitehead and Joyner missed tackles on 3rd down and forever.

Make that tackle and NE doesn't score, Jets win. 

 

Lol. Omg. This happened on sooooo many plays. Whitehead constantly misses these types of tackles where it should be a gain of 1 but goes for bigger. They are NOT good.

[SickJetFan]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

Exactly.  My guess is that MLF knew right away what he was dealing with

I dont see how - there was no pass rush, pressure, etc.. and by all accounts of all the media present Zach was passing well and better than Flacco and White.

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

The problem is that MLF was historically bad down the stretch, largely without Zach. 

So, while Zach was clearly the biggest weakness on the team and has been the biggest bust of the JD era, MLF did not earn the right to come back. 

I dunno. Mike White isn't very good and had broken ribs. Flacco should be retired. It's not like he had all these great options 

JD built this qb room with the intent of not threatening Zach 

[derp]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

Go to the HC and tell him that mike white should start. 

It’s not like White’s been outstanding either and we know he’s had issues in practice. Nobody was saying he won the job in camp. It’s revisionist history to suggest he should’ve played.

The issue was not having a viable veteran on the roster for if Wilson wasn’t ready. Someone who’s at least a known replacement level commodity so there’s a floor in place if Wilson wasn’t ready. That wasn’t White. There was no backup plan. That’s on Douglas.

[Trotter]

7 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

What are you talking about? Lol. Saleh doesn't come off as weak at all. Stop making sht up boy.

Mostly tells us Zach sucking screwed things up and that LaFluer was just not a good communicator and things were way too complex and players expressed that. 

I read it in a different way - not saying my interpretation is correct.

Zach was a mess. He was inexperienced and was struggling with playing the position. MLF and Calabrese seemingly did nothing to help him address these issues. They had a gameplan and were simply trying to get Zach to fit into it.

Saleh needed to step in and take control of the situation but appeared to leave it to the guys he trusted to make the right calls.

If the article is accurate, I actually have an understanding of why Zach always seemed confused and simply not capable of being on the field. He was not being coached and desparatley needed to be.

Going into this season I could care less who the QB is as long as they are capable and can move this offense to wins. I will say in light of that article, I am not sure Zach is the complete bust I thought he was and it actually gave me a bit of hope that with the proper coaching, he could develop.

I am not making excuses for him - you want to say he sucks - have at it - I did for the majority of the season.

But that article is very damning on the coaching staff and makes me give a bit of slack to the qb.

[section314]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I dunno. Mike White isn't very good and had broken ribs. Flacco should be retired. It's not like he had all these great options 

JD built this qb room with the intent of not threatening Zach 

Could you imagine being JD and MLF somehow got the Pats OC job and Mac Jones lit it up?  You think this forum is nuts now??

[PepPep]

4 minutes ago, derp said:

Was a good article. I honestly think Saleh has shielded a variety of big and small mistakes that Joe Douglas has made. Saleh is absolutely not blameless but he takes more heat and Douglas is far more responsible for the mess.

This offseason the Jets are a 7-10 team with no quarterback, tackles, center, or cap space. They’re not heading into an Ozzie Newsome methodical offseason, we’re heading into a pick your Mike (Tannenbaum, Maccagnan) scramble to throw together a roster type offseason. 

JD is JD. He's no Ozzy but he also isn't Tanny or 'coffee cup' Macc. I think people need to realize that. For better or wore, he does things his own way.

JD has done a good job of signing players to non-commit contracts that don't put this team in 'cap hell'. You can't do that and NOT have seasons where there will be multiple FA's. So yes, one of our starting OT's and our C are FA's. Our OTHER OT (Brown) is under contract but hurt and the depth behind him, while not the most reliable, is healthy and will be competing for starting spots (Becton, Mitchell). Our C is a FA but this might be a good thing. He was solid but not stellar and there are a number of options in FA that could potentially be better (or just as good) options. Bradbury, Bozeman, Pocic, Clapp, Blythe, etc. 

As far as our QB situation. Yes, JD takes the hit on this. But it wasn't for lack of trying. He DID use a #2 overall pick on a QB. That guy IS on the roster. JD just whiffed and now Zach is simply not good enough to start. And again, despite that whiff, the fact that we are not tied to a massively overpriced QB that stinks (and yes, Zach is overpaid and stinks), and have SOME freedom to go after a FA, could be a GOOD thing. 

JD had some rough draft selections and whiffed on some FA signings but he is the best GM we have had in a very long time. He doesn't mortgage the future, he almost always wins in trades, he doesn't over-commit to FA signing and shows patience during the FA period.

And if you think he can't clear the cap space he needs to keep the critical FAs he needs or bring in the critical FAs he wants, you are mistaken. There are a ton of moves he can make.    

 

[section314]

1 minute ago, Trotter said:

I read it in a different way - not saying my interpretation is correct.

Zach was a mess. He was inexperienced and was struggling with playing the position. MLF and Calabrese seemingly did nothing to help him address these issues. They had a gameplan and were simply trying to get Zach to fit into it.

Saleh needed to step in and take control of the situation but appeared to leave it to the guys he trusted to make the right calls.

If the article is accurate, I actually have an understanding of why Zach always seemed confused and simply not capable of being on the field. He was not being coached and desparatley needed to be.

Going into this season I could care less who the QB is as long as they are capable and can move this offense to wins. I will say in light of that article, I am not sure Zach is the complete bust I thought he was and it actually gave me a bit of hope that with the proper coaching, he could develop.

I am not making excuses for him - you want to say he sucks - have at it - I did for the majority of the season.

But that article is very damning on the coaching staff and makes me give a bit of slack to the qb.

Basically telling the world that they have done pretty much everything in their power on all levels to ruin Wilson. I wish the CS was as good at the rest of their jobs are they are at that.

[Larz]

Putting guys in the doghouse without telling them why is malpractice. Let’s not beat around the bush here that’s awful for a high school coach. The head coach has to step in when the OC can’t teach the offense and responds by lying to players.  
 

What an absolute cluster.   Everyone looks really bad here. Anyone that reads this and wants to take victory lap isn’t seeing how bad it is.  Amazing that Saleh survived this.  No accountability from anyone.  

[football guy]

33 minutes ago, Trotter said:

So maybe I am trying to read way too much into this but when Zach all of a sudden was not ready until the Pitt game at the beg of the season, was that really because the docs did not clear him or what that a cover since MLF felt he simply was not ready to run the offense?

The main reason Zach was held out was due to their internal feeling to get him back 100% healthy. He could've come back earlier if he needed to be back, but I know there was a lot of internal concern with the offensive line and they wanted Zach back against a line that had enough reps to establish chemistry. It was moot point because the Jets were down to AVT and Connor McDermott at tackle for his return anyway 

[Trotter]

1 minute ago, section314 said:

Basically telling the world that they have done pretty much everything in their power on all levels to ruin Wilson. I wish the CS was as good at the rest of their jobs are they are at that.

Again, I am going by the article being accurate but other things fall into place as well.

The tweet from his mom about no one can be successful here - pure speculation but you get the feeling he had no to turn to in the org so he confided in his family. His Mom's tweet blames the fanbase which was stupid but who knows - maybe she didnt want to take it as far as naming the cs.

Maybe i am being gullible, but it really puts a little different spin on why he looked thew way he did on the field for me.

Now the issue is how do you fix it from a coaching perspective and do they try to move Zach in give it one more shot.

Who knows. 

[playtowinthegame]

Thank god they got rid of that boy OC Mikey Laflower. 

[Augustiniak]

10 minutes ago, Trotter said:

I read it in a different way - not saying my interpretation is correct.

Zach was a mess. He was inexperienced and was struggling with playing the position. MLF and Calabrese seemingly did nothing to help him address these issues. They had a gameplan and were simply trying to get Zach to fit into it.

Saleh needed to step in and take control of the situation but appeared to leave it to the guys he trusted to make the right calls.

If the article is accurate, I actually have an understanding of why Zach always seemed confused and simply not capable of being on the field. He was not being coached and desparatley needed to be.

Going into this season I could care less who the QB is as long as they are capable and can move this offense to wins. I will say in light of that article, I am not sure Zach is the complete bust I thought he was and it actually gave me a bit of hope that with the proper coaching, he could develop.

I am not making excuses for him - you want to say he sucks - have at it - I did for the majority of the season.

But that article is very damning on the coaching staff and makes me give a bit of slack to the qb.

nobody wanted to actually coach up wilson.  MLF only wanted to call and design plays and made everyone fit his scheme.  

[slats]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Saleh was a weak, passive jellyfish

Read the entire article simply to confirm that this wasn’t a part of it. 

[Trotter]

3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

nobody wanted to actually coach up wilson.  MLF only wanted to call and design plays and made everyone fit his scheme.  

Which is a big problem.

Let's put Zach aside - what about the other 50 on the roster and their development?

Is Zach the outlier here and everyone else was coached properly and showed growth or are their larger issues with this coaching staff? 

[derp]

8 minutes ago, PepPep said:

JD is JD. He's no Ozzy but he also isn't Tanny or 'coffee cup' Macc. I think people need to realize that. For better or wore, he does things his own way.

JD has done a good job of signing players to non-commit contracts that don't put this team in 'cap hell'. You can't do that and NOT have seasons where there will be multiple FA's. So yes, one of our starting OT's and our C are FA's. Our OTHER OT (Brown) is under contract but hurt and the depth behind him, while not the most reliable, is healthy and will be competing for starting spots (Becton, Mitchell). Our C is a FA but this might be a good thing. He was solid but not stellar and there are a number of options in FA that could potentially be better (or just as good) options. Bradbury, Bozeman, Pocic, Clapp, Blythe, etc. 

As far as our QB situation. Yes, JD takes the hit on this. But it wasn't for lack of trying. He DID use a #2 overall pick on a QB. That guy IS on the roster. JD just whiffed and now Zach is simply not good enough to start. And again, despite that whiff, the fact that we are not tied to a massively overpriced QB that stinks (and yes, Zach is overpaid and stinks), and have SOME freedom to go after a FA, could be a GOOD thing. 

JD had some rough draft selections and whiffed on some FA signings but he is the best GM we have had in a very long time. He doesn't mortgage the future, he almost always wins in trades, he doesn't over-commit to FA signing and shows patience during the FA period.

And if you think he can't clear the cap space he needs to keep the critical FAs he needs or bring in the critical FAs he wants, you are mistaken. There are a ton of moves he can make.    

 

I was comparing the upcoming offseasons, for the sake of making a point, not the general managers. Good general managers are proactive. Bad ones are reactive. Douglas started proactive and became reactive. This upcoming offseason is all of that coming to a head.

Too much trading up and not valuing mid round picks to build the depth and meat of the roster and too many free agents who don’t have internal replacements behind them. Last offseason was going on a signing spree and pushing money forward to field a competitive team, that didn’t completely work and this offseason he’ll need to unwind that and push money around again.

Lots of work to get rid of Maccagnan’s dead money only to create his own. And the handling of the QB situation was a disaster.

He’s absolutely better than the prior three and I’d love to be wrong but I’m pretty sure he’s begun going to dig himself a hole he won’t be able to get out of and he’ll get this offseason and maybe one more before that becomes obvious to everyone. And if that happens at least he’ll have left the team Sauce and Wilson.

[bitonti]

16 minutes ago, section314 said:

Could you imagine being JD and MLF somehow got the Pats OC job and Mac Jones lit it up?  You think this forum is nuts now??

I don't think MLF is a bad coach 

He will go somewhere else and find success 

He was fired because Zach is a terrible qb 

[slimjasi]

20 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I dunno. Mike White isn't very good and had broken ribs. Flacco should be retired. It's not like he had all these great options 

JD built this qb room with the intent of not threatening Zach 

Well, I agree that JD totally f*cked this up and I believe he should probably be fired if we aren't a playoff team next year. 

However, I never thought MLF was a good coordinator. Nice system but really bad situational play-calling and in-game adjustments. Of course, Saleh can take the fall for this, as well. All of these things can be true at the same time. 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Trotter said:

Which is a big problem.

Let's put Zach aside - what about the other 50 on the roster and their development?

Is Zach the outlier here and everyone else was coached properly and showed growth or are their larger issues with this coaching staff? 

MLF seems to have ‘stayed in his lane’ with the things he wanted to do, and avoided what he didn’t want to do.  So he avoided really coaching ZW, put wrs in the doghouse until they heeled and learned everything MLF wanted them to, and stuck to calling his plays and fitting round pegs into square holes to fit his system.  There doesn’t seem to have been much discussion of, ok, this is what we have, how can we get the most out of it.  And Saleh let his little friend have full reign of things on offense.  Typical jets structure, defensive HC who delegates the offense to unqualified coaches.

No doubt Wilson can look better than he has, but that doesn’t mean he’s starting material.  

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I don't think MLF is a bad coach 

He will go somewhere else and find success 

He was fired because Zach is a terrible qb 

MLF is a bad in game play caller who would definitely appear better with a better qb.  But the play calling wasn’t great and he’s still too rigid with how players fit into his system.  

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, Claymation said:

1) and if the QB comes here and turns this thing around he can be revered in this area and fanbase. Never underestimate Vanity.

2) Woody isn't bad, he is not Fred Wilpon

3) They are hiring a new OC

4) Saleh's and JD's jobs are safe

5) Outside of the AFC and NFC south divisions, they are all tough

6) Are the dimensions in MetLife the same as every other NFL Stadium, if so, not an issue then

7) Property taxes are worse in NJ but the school system is one of the best in country

? They suck

9) The Tri-State area loves a winner, start winning and never pay for a drink ever again

1) Nice thought, but history tells us that modern star players would rather go to good situations than build them - see the Knicks. 

2) Whether or not Woody is as bad as Fred Wilpon is not relevant to my point - my point is that Woody has a terrible reputation. 

3) Yes, confirming they have had recent struggles on offense - which was my point - and it goes back a LOT longer than one coordinator!

4) For now? yes. After another year of no playoffs? I suspect not but let's see what happens. 

5) Right, but the AFC East is one of the very toughest, and again, is led by a great team with a great young QB. Hard to think you are coming here and winning the division. 

6) Nothing to do with dimensions - it's a sh*tty home field advantage. My impression is that it's one of the quietest stadiums in the NFL. 

7) Ok 

(8) Agreed!

9) We know - this doesn't change the math. Winning here is easier said than done. 

[Biggs]

Lefleur isn't the boss.  Saleh is.  If you believe the team was divided that's on Saleh.  There is no one else to blame.  The inmates don't run the asylum.  

A new OC doesn't solve this.  A new QB doesn't solve this.  Saleh better figure out what running a football team really means.  Everyone has to be of a single mind and purpose and that clearly wasn't the case.  

I remember when Parcells didn't like the way the OC was calling the plays he called the plays for a few games.  Saleh probably isn't capable of that and that's a big part of the problem.

[BroadwayRay]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

The problem is that MLF was historically bad down the stretch, largely without Zach a quarterback.

The "stretch" consisted of three games where the team did not have a functional quarterback.

[football guy]

31 minutes ago, derp said:

What was LaFleur supposed to do when it became evident Wilson wasn’t ready to start? The roster’s pretty much constructed at that point. I get that he was a flawed OC and no issue with having him fired, but the lack of a viable alternative on the team if it turned out he wasn’t ready was a roster construction issue and that falls on Douglas.

LaFleur declared Wilson ready to start after his 2021 preseason. A QB coach or someone with deep knowledge of QB play is not going to generalize a player's readiness on a few preseason performances or practices. It's what goes on inside the QB room and on the field day in and day out that allows you to determine where a player is mentally and if they're ready to play. That disconnect was the problem, and whether that's on Rob Calabrese or Mike LaFleur is hard to say, but MLF did not make matters better. Matt Cavanaugh didn't join the organization until after the decision was already made... I'm sure had he been here throughout training camp he would've had a different perspective, but he wasn't, and if MLF was doing his job right he would've told his superiors that he wanted to start Mike White or Josh Johnson from the jump because he wanted to give Zach more time. Would he have gotten pushback? I'm sure of it. But at least MLF would've been doing his job right... So when the going got rough and Zach couldn't play within his system the way he showed in the preseason, it turned into "wellll Mike White, Josh Johnson, Joe Flacco can play in this scheme better than Zach can right now." 

No matter which way you spin it, LaFleur was either negligent or naïve. People interpreted him admitting that Zach probably should've started out on the bench as a shot at someone else in the building, but it was really MLF taking accountability for his own decisions. It would've been much easier to blame the Jets and the HC if they forced Zach onto MLF, but they didn't and he didn't push back on the plan to start a rookie Day 1 when he easily could have in all the months leading up to the draft. 

See the theme here?