Report: Quinnen Williams and Jets not far apart

[JustInFudge]

14 hours ago, jgb said:

So he’s not demanding $700 million per game like the worry warts insisted?

Is it a surprise this thread has like zero traction but the other one was like 10 pages deep after 20 hours of being posted?  lol 

[nycdan]

This isn't hard.  It's going to be somewhere right around the deal Simmons just got.  Maybe a tiny bit higher.

Player	Team	Age	Total Value	Avg./Year	Total Guaranteed	Fully Guaranteed	Free Agency
Aaron Donald	Rams	32	$95,000,000	$31,666,667	$65,000,000	$46,500,000	2025 Void
Jeffery Simmons	Titans	26	$94,000,000	$23,500,000	$59,330,000	$47,830,000	2028 UFA
Daron Payne	Commanders	26	$90,000,000	$22,500,000	$60,020,000	$46,010,000	2027 Void
Dexter Lawrence	Giants	26	$90,000,000	$22,500,000	$59,000,000	$46,500,000	2028 UFA

 

The 4-year extension for $100M with $60M guaranteed guess earlier seems almost spot-on.  Personally, I think it comes in just under, at around $96M with maybe $48-50M guaranteed (use the fully guaranteed column for reference on the extension).

This gives him the highest total value for a DT, with the highest fully guaranteed money.  And the highest AAV other than Donald.  He gets to keep playing with his brother who the Jets just took care of as well.  I honestly see this as a no-brainer to get done well before TC starts.

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, nycdan said:

This isn't hard.  It's going to be somewhere right around the deal Simmons just got.  Maybe a tiny bit higher.

Player	Team	Age	Total Value	Avg./Year	Total Guaranteed	Fully Guaranteed	Free Agency
Aaron Donald	Rams	32	$95,000,000	$31,666,667	$65,000,000	$46,500,000	2025 Void
Jeffery Simmons	Titans	26	$94,000,000	$23,500,000	$59,330,000	$47,830,000	2028 UFA
Daron Payne	Commanders	26	$90,000,000	$22,500,000	$60,020,000	$46,010,000	2027 Void
Dexter Lawrence	Giants	26	$90,000,000	$22,500,000	$59,000,000	$46,500,000	2028 UFA

 

The 4-year extension for $100M with $60M guaranteed guess earlier seems almost spot-on.  Personally, I think it comes in just under, at around $96M with maybe $48-50M guaranteed (use the fully guaranteed column for reference on the extension).

This gives him the highest total value for a DT, with the highest fully guaranteed money.  And the highest AAV other than Donald.  He gets to keep playing with his brother who the Jets just took care of as well.  I honestly see this as a no-brainer to get done well before TC starts.

One would hope. Certainly seems easier and obvious enough. 

[Bobby816]

Give him 24mill annually.

[Doggin94it]

18 hours ago, Jdeet said:

Should I explain to you how bonuses work in long term contracts ?  I’m thinking no. 

Good choice. I'm well aware of how bonuses work, but if you assume his AAV will be north of 24M across the life of the contract, expect the deal to come in at 4 new years, and you want to get his 2023 cap hit below, say, 5M, you're talking about roughly 129M spread across only 4 years of the deal, or close to 32.5M/per in cap hit those years. Even if Q is willing to do a pure extension (i.e. new year AAV at 24-25M but total deal AAV at ~22 or so once you factor in this year's 10M (110M over 5 instead of 120/5) you're talking about spreading 105M in cap costs over 4 years for an average cap hit of 26M.

Of course you can shave some of that down with void years, but void years mean that when Q hits the market next we have no leverage if he's still playing at an elite level (you can't tag someone who voids into FA). There's also no real need to whittle Q's cap hit down this year - who do you need big cap space for other than Rodgers? - so that would be the ultimate penny-wise pound foolish move.

I expect that we're likely to see the dominoes start to fall after 6/1, which is when the Jets can create 17M in 2023 cap room by cutting Mosely (at the cost of a 10M or so cap hit in 24) - I wouldn't be surprised if there's a deadline on that renegotiation soon, because there's no way Mosely sees 34M in cash salary from this team over the next two years. But that's just an educated guess.

Anyway, I'm interested to learn whatever it is you think you can teach me about how the cap works 

[jamesr]

12 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

 

I expect that we're likely to see the dominoes start to fall after 6/1, which is when the Jets can create 17M in 2023 cap room by cutting Mosely (at the cost of a 10M or so cap hit in 24) - I wouldn't be surprised if there's a deadline on that renegotiation soon, because there's no way Mosely sees 34M in cash salary from this team over the next two years. But that's just an educated guess.

 

Mosely can't be renegotiated until Sept 23 ... one year on from his last renegotiation.

[Jdeet]

29 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Mosely can't be renegotiated until Sept 23 ... one year on from his last renegotiation.

That is not true. 

[jamesr]

That is not true. 

Which bit - the Sept 23 bit, or the can't redo the deal but?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Doggin94it]

5 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Which bit - the Sept 23 bit, or the can't redo the deal but?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

The latter. The "1 year" rule applies only to successive negotiations that increase a player's P5 salary for a given year (you can always cut salary down)

 

https://overthecap.com/collective-bargaining-agreement/article/13/section/8

[Jdeet]

47 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

Good choice. I'm well aware of how bonuses work, but if you assume his AAV will be north of 24M across the life of the contract, expect the deal to come in at 4 new years, and you want to get his 2023 cap hit below, say, 5M, you're talking about roughly 129M spread across only 4 years of the deal, or close to 32.5M/per in cap hit those years. Even if Q is willing to do a pure extension (i.e. new year AAV at 24-25M but total deal AAV at ~22 or so once you factor in this year's 10M (110M over 5 instead of 120/5) you're talking about spreading 105M in cap costs over 4 years for an average cap hit of 26M.

Of course you can shave some of that down with void years, but void years mean that when Q hits the market next we have no leverage if he's still playing at an elite level (you can't tag someone who voids into FA). There's also no real need to whittle Q's cap hit down this year - who do you need big cap space for other than Rodgers? - so that would be the ultimate penny-wise pound foolish move.

I expect that we're likely to see the dominoes start to fall after 6/1, which is when the Jets can create 17M in 2023 cap room by cutting Mosely (at the cost of a 10M or so cap hit in 24) - I wouldn't be surprised if there's a deadline on that renegotiation soon, because there's no way Mosely sees 34M in cash salary from this team over the next two years. But that's just an educated guess.

Anyway, I'm interested to learn whatever it is you think you can teach me about how the cap works 

So we are really doing this?  Ok. So yes, the Jets will likely want to have a lower cap hit this year and next, to fit Aaron Rodgers and whatever other players they might want to bring in, for the Rodgers window, which is likely 2 years. Another mid to upper tier WR is possible, along with an experienced RB and another LB. 

So not unlike some other recent contracts (not including QBs obviously), 

Javon Hargrave - AAV 21 mil - 2023 cap hit 6.6

Jawaan Taylor - AAV 20 mil - 2023 cap hit 5.8 

Dalvin Tomlinson - AAV 14.2 mil - 2023 cap hit 4.3

And I can list 20+ more contracts which have much lower 1st year cap hits than AAV, with a multitude of ways to either spread the signing bonus, add void years, etc, though I don’t think they would do the void years in this case, due to his age and pedigree. But lower 1st year cap hit? Almost a certainty. 

Much of what you said is correct, other than the most important part. But hey, keep throwing them at me 😂. 

[jamesr]

The latter. The "1 year" rule applies only to successive negotiations that increase a player's P5 salary for a given year (you can always cut salary down)
 
https://overthecap.com/collective-bargaining-agreement/article/13/section/8

So you can only get a raise once a year ... but no limit on pay cuts?

Who negotiated that deal?


Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Jdeet]

10 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Which bit - the Sept 23 bit, or the can't redo the deal but?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Have explained this in other threads. They can restructure his contract. 100 times if both sides agree. 

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, Doggin94it said:

Good choice. I'm well aware of how bonuses work, but if you assume his AAV will be north of 24M across the life of the contract, expect the deal to come in at 4 new years, and you want to get his 2023 cap hit below, say, 5M, you're talking about roughly 129M spread across only 4 years of the deal, or close to 32.5M/per in cap hit those years. Even if Q is willing to do a pure extension (i.e. new year AAV at 24-25M but total deal AAV at ~22 or so once you factor in this year's 10M (110M over 5 instead of 120/5) you're talking about spreading 105M in cap costs over 4 years for an average cap hit of 26M.

Of course you can shave some of that down with void years, but void years mean that when Q hits the market next we have no leverage if he's still playing at an elite level (you can't tag someone who voids into FA). There's also no real need to whittle Q's cap hit down this year - who do you need big cap space for other than Rodgers? - so that would be the ultimate penny-wise pound foolish move.

I expect that we're likely to see the dominoes start to fall after 6/1, which is when the Jets can create 17M in 2023 cap room by cutting Mosely (at the cost of a 10M or so cap hit in 24) - I wouldn't be surprised if there's a deadline on that renegotiation soon, because there's no way Mosely sees 34M in cash salary from this team over the next two years. But that's just an educated guess.

Anyway, I'm interested to learn whatever it is you think you can teach me about how the cap works 

[Hal N of Provo]

1 hour ago, Doggin94it said:

Good choice. I'm well aware of how bonuses work, but if you assume his AAV will be north of 24M across the life of the contract, expect the deal to come in at 4 new years, and you want to get his 2023 cap hit below, say, 5M, you're talking about roughly 129M spread across only 4 years of the deal, or close to 32.5M/per in cap hit those years. Even if Q is willing to do a pure extension (i.e. new year AAV at 24-25M but total deal AAV at ~22 or so once you factor in this year's 10M (110M over 5 instead of 120/5) you're talking about spreading 105M in cap costs over 4 years for an average cap hit of 26M.

Of course you can shave some of that down with void years, but void years mean that when Q hits the market next we have no leverage if he's still playing at an elite level (you can't tag someone who voids into FA). There's also no real need to whittle Q's cap hit down this year - who do you need big cap space for other than Rodgers? - so that would be the ultimate penny-wise pound foolish move.

I expect that we're likely to see the dominoes start to fall after 6/1, which is when the Jets can create 17M in 2023 cap room by cutting Mosely (at the cost of a 10M or so cap hit in 24) - I wouldn't be surprised if there's a deadline on that renegotiation soon, because there's no way Mosely sees 34M in cash salary from this team over the next two years. But that's just an educated guess.

Anyway, I'm interested to learn whatever it is you think you can teach me about how the cap works 

I would not be surprised if Q wants the void years and JD is like “thanks for thinking of me, but not needed!” 

[JETS SB]

23 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Trying to follow this. One guy proves the other guy ignorant, and he gets the slam in his face. I would think showing actual players and numbers to prove a point, and not just spewing out contract language having nothing to do with the Jets situation, makes it a slam dunk the other way. But that's just me. I am an a-hole (who also happens to be a contract Attorney).

[Jetpain]

It has to be bothering Quinnen to not be around the facility with all the fun going on now that Rogers is in town.  Quinnens a young guy, been around losing here his entire career and now the Jet facility is fun and good vibes and he cant be in the building while hes' holding out.  Obviously there's a biz side, but he's also a young guy who wants to be around the fun they are currently having.  

[Jdeet]

8 minutes ago, JETS SB said:

Trying to follow this. One guy proves the other guy ignorant, and he gets the slam in his face. I would think showing actual players and numbers to prove a point, and not just spewing out contract language having nothing to do with the Jets situation, makes it a slam dunk the other way. But that's just me. I am an a-hole (who also happens to be a contract Attorney).

Meh, it’s fine. Not here to prove anyone wrong. I know a little about this stuff too 😂. I don’t think he is ignorant. Just poorly informed. 😂 I do agree with the a-hole part.  

[RutgersJetFan]

29 minutes ago, JETS SB said:

 I am an a-hole (who also happens to be a contract Attorney).

That's why you're Frederic Weis.

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

That's why you're Frederic Weis.

Legit lol

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Jdeet said:

So we are really doing this?  Ok. So yes, the Jets will likely want to have a lower cap hit this year and next, to fit Aaron Rodgers and whatever other players they might want to bring in, for the Rodgers window, which is likely 2 years. Another mid to upper tier WR is possible, along with an experienced RB and another LB. 

So not unlike some other recent contracts (not including QBs obviously), 

Javon Hargrave - AAV 21 mil - 2023 cap hit 6.6

Jawaan Taylor - AAV 20 mil - 2023 cap hit 5.8 

Dalvin Tomlinson - AAV 14.2 mil - 2023 cap hit 4.3

And I can list 20+ more contracts which have much lower 1st year cap hits than AAV, with a multitude of ways to either spread the signing bonus, add void years, etc, though I don’t think they would do the void years in this case, due to his age and pedigree. But lower 1st year cap hit? Almost a certainty. 

Much of what you said is correct, other than the most important part. But hey, keep throwing them at me 😂. 

What difference does it make if it’s QW’s $ hitting earlier/later vs Rodgers? Cap space is cap space. Whose name is attached to the line item is incidental; every dollar paid from team to player has to come off, no matter how it’s structured. After this many years @Doggin94it clearly knows this because it’s come up plenty here.

It makes no difference whose $ hits now vs later except to sportswriters with suspect math skills. Rodgers counting, say, $5MM more this year and QW counting $5MM less is irrelevant on paper (assuming the upcoming 2-2.5 yrs are guaranteed, which it is for each) because it’s all coming from the same team to the same players.

They’ll restructure Rodgers because it looks better but in the end the total is the same. 

[Jdeet]

12 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

What difference does it make if it’s QW’s $ hitting earlier/later vs Rodgers? Cap space is cap space. Whose name is attached to the line item is incidental; every dollar paid from team to player has to come off, no matter how it’s structured. After this many years @Doggin94it clearly knows this because it’s come up plenty here.

It makes no difference whose $ hits now vs later except to sportswriters with suspect math skills. Rodgers counting, say, $5MM more this year and QW counting $5MM less is irrelevant on paper (assuming the upcoming 2-2.5 yrs are guaranteed, which it is for each) because it’s all coming from the same team to the same players.

They’ll restructure Rodgers because it looks better but in the end the total is the same. 

You are dropping in, late to the party. I made one point - the Jets might actually lower their cap this year, when they extend Q. I didn’t need some apparent long time expert to tell me that it is or isn’t possible. Nor did I say it was a good or bad thing.  But thanks for the input. I think I have a few years experience in the subject 😂. 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, Jdeet said:

You are dropping in, late to the party. I made one point - the Jets might actually lower their cap this year, when they extend Q. I didn’t need some apparent long time expert to tell me that it is or isn’t possible. Nor did I say it was a good or bad thing.  But thanks for the input. I think I have a few years experience in the subject 😂. 

I’m very impressed by you.

[Jdeet]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

I’m very impressed by you.

Feeling is not mutual 

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Jdeet said:

Feeling is not mutual 

Yeah you sound great at what you do. Truly.

What’s the most bibs you folded in one hour at The Children’s Place?

[Jdeet]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah you sound great at what you do. Truly.

What’s the most bibs you folded in one hour at The Children’s Place?

Is that supposed to be humor? Try harder. 

[Greenseed4]

 

[BigRy56]

Of course they aren’t. The deal will get done before camp and everything will be all good

[JETS SB]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah you sound great at what you do. Truly.

What’s the most bibs you folded in one hour at The Children’s Place?

Guess I am not the biggest a-hole here. Seems like there are a lot of guys here who love to pick fights, especially among the long time posters and moderators. The worst thing I did was attack Jets fans for being negative. This "moderator" is attacking an NFL legend.

[jgb]

8 hours ago, Jdeet said:

You are dropping in, late to the party. I made one point - the Jets might actually lower their cap this year, when they extend Q. I didn’t need some apparent long time expert to tell me that it is or isn’t possible. Nor did I say it was a good or bad thing.  But thanks for the input. I think I have a few years experience in the subject 😂. 

 

8 hours ago, Jdeet said:

Feeling is not mutual 

 

8 hours ago, Jdeet said:

Is that supposed to be humor? Try harder. 

Just want to point out again that your first post introducing yourself you said you hate people who are divisive on the Internet.

But the good news is that it seems you’re integrating well.

[slats]

12 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

Even if Q is willing to do a pure extension (i.e. new year AAV at 24-25M but total deal AAV at ~22 or so once you factor in this year's 10M (110M over 5 instead of 120/5) you're talking about spreading 105M in cap costs over 4 years for an average cap hit of 26M.

I think this is likely, with a bonus paid upon signing but -maybe- a slightly lower cap number this year. It’s Rodgers’ money that they’ll want to move as up front as possible because he has the shorter career ahead. They’ll put a deal together for Q that allows them to spread it out into the future, if need be. 

[Jdeet]

39 minutes ago, slats said:

I think this is likely, with a bonus paid upon signing but -maybe- a slightly lower cap number this year. It’s Rodgers’ money that they’ll want to move as up front as possible because he has the shorter career ahead. They’ll put a deal together for Q that allows them to spread it out into the future, if need be. 

What? You can’t say that. The math guy will yell numbers at you and the sperm guy might insult you and then use obscure metaphors to someone make you feel even dumber. Or maybe not you because you have that moderator bond. It’s so fun here. I wish I could stay. Maybe I will pop in mid season. Jetsfan80 predicted I would quit and he was right.

Just a little suggestion to the assholes here and you obviously have an idea who you are, there are some people that know a few things about football, that you might not know, like the experience of playing QB in the NFL and winning super bowls. 

But I am sure you are too busy keeping track of Zach Wilson's water skiing and don’t have time for that bull sh*t. 

Take care of my brother. 

 

[Trotter]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

 

 

Just want to point out again that your first post introducing yourself you said you hate people who are divisive on the Internet.

But the good news is that it seems you’re integrating well.

Took about a week - it is the off season so things are a bit slow. Had this been September - no more than a day maybe two.

[jgb]

4 hours ago, Jdeet said:

What? You can’t say that. The math guy will yell numbers at you and the sperm guy might insult you and then use obscure metaphors to someone make you feel even dumber. Or maybe not you because you have that moderator bond. It’s so fun here. I wish I could stay. Maybe I will pop in mid season. Jetsfan80 predicted I would quit and he was right.

Just a little suggestion to the assholes here and you obviously have an idea who you are, there are some people that know a few things about football, that you might not know, like the experience of playing QB in the NFL and winning super bowls. 

But I am sure you are too busy keeping track of Zach Wilson's water skiing and don’t have time for that bull sh*t. 

Take care of my brother. 

 

[PepPep]

[Skeptable]

6 hours ago, Jdeet said:

What? You can’t say that. The math guy will yell numbers at you and the sperm guy might insult you and then use obscure metaphors to someone make you feel even dumber. Or maybe not you because you have that moderator bond. It’s so fun here. I wish I could stay. Maybe I will pop in mid season. Jetsfan80 predicted I would quit and he was right.

Just a little suggestion to the assholes here and you obviously have an idea who you are, there are some people that know a few things about football, that you might not know, like the experience of playing QB in the NFL and winning super bowls. 

But I am sure you are too busy keeping track of Zach Wilson's water skiing and don’t have time for that bull sh*t. 

Take care of my brother. 

 

Dan Orlovsky has joined the chat.... 

**Nailed it**