Training Camp Updates -- Tues Aug 22

[greenwichjetfan]

29 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

it's football guys can get hurt. sh*t happens. if it happens it happens. What difference does it make if they get hurt in 3 series in PS or in week 1 when the score counts?

There is value in shaking the rust taking some live bullets before the games count. That's why pretty much every coach does it every preseason. That's why Saleh is doing it and why Rodgers wants to do it. These guys will all be playing together for the first time and need to do all the little things so they can answer any questions they might not have known they had. Many of them are playing in a new system for the first time with a new QB. There are little details and communication things they'll want to try and be sure they're on the same page with.

You don't want the first Q of the Bills game to work things out and knock the rust off when this game could be the difference between winning the division or not, getting the 1 seed or not, making the playoffs or not.

 

28 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

When did this preaseason not mattering thing start? Does practice not matter either? It’s football injuries are going to happen. The more reps for guys who haven’t played together the better. 

This is where I am as well on the topic. The "meaning" of games is layered. The regular season is not a single entity; rather each week is 1/17th of the total. 

18 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

I was just pointing out the arguments. I could go either way.  This goes back a long way, but I am permanently scarred by the knee injury Namath suffered in a 1971 preseason game when he was tearing it up in camp. That injury was a back breaker.  

So the Namath injury was dramatically/significantly more scarring than the Vinny injury because Namath's occurred in a "meaningless" preseason game while Vinny's occurred on the first drop back of the "meaningful" regular season?

[Joe W. Namath]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

 

I was not high on Kuntz.  He did have some bone headed penalties last game.  But he seems to do 2 things pretty well.

1- get open

2- catch the ball

For that reason, I think he may make the team.

[nycdan]

1 minute ago, Larz said:

 

Just a reminder that AVT is 6'5" 310 lbs.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

16 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Well, guys like Andy Reid, Sean McDermott, John Harbaugh, etc., clearly disagree. 

Not sure I saw Lamar Jackson out there…

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

If they can salvage Becton to a dominant RT, then 2020 draft ain’t too bad! (I’m counting future all pro Ashtyn Davis)

[slimjasi]

7 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Not sure I saw Lamar Jackson out there…

not sure why I included Harbaugh (I guess we'll see if Jackson plays next week), but the point remains - starters, including star QBs, routinely play in the preseason. Happens every year. 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

2 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

 

This is where I am as well on the topic. The "meaning" of games is layered. The regular season is not a single entity; rather each week is 1/17th of the total. 

So the Namath injury was dramatically/significantly more scarring than the Vinny injury because Namath's occurred in a "meaningless" preseason game while Vinny's occurred on the first drop back of the "meaningful" regular season?

Yup.  An injury in a meaningless game is more devastating than an injury in a game that actually counts.  If you don't see the difference, I don't know what to say.  If a player sits out a preseason game, does anybody really care or remember?  When does winning a preseason game, or playing a portion of it count towards making the playoffs?  On the other hand, does any healthy player sit out the first game of the season to avoid injury ?  Look. I get the argument that you may want some players to play in the preseason to get ready for the games that do count, but I'm not sure I see the benefit in playing a few series or a quarter of a game from a preparation standpoint or why that is better than a practice in pads where the QBs don't get hit (intentionally). 

[Barry McCockinner]

4 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

If they can salvage Becton to a dominant RT, then 2020 draft ain’t too bad! (I’m counting future all pro Ashtyn Davis)

I think the RT thing is temporary and he'll be back to LT after this season. It's just what's best for the team in 2023.

[slimjasi]

Just now, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Look. I get the argument that you may want some players to play in the preseason to get ready for the games that do count, but I'm not sure I see the benefit in playing a few series or a quarter of a game from a preparation standpoint or why that is better than a practice in pads where the QBs don't get hit (intentionally). 

Maybe you don't see any benefit, but a lot of coaches and players do. 

[BigRy56]

Any news on Duane Brown’s physical?

[nycdan]

3 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I think the RT thing is temporary and he'll be back to LT after this season. It's just what's best for the team in 2023.

Just a reminder of what Becton *could* be at LT if he regains his rookie form:

It's like a magic trick.  he made Nick Bosa disappear.

[jetsons]

2 hours ago, nycdan said:

Especially when we trade for Jonathan Taylor and run a Wishbone offense.

[Barry McCockinner]

Just now, nycdan said:

Just a reminder of what Becton *could* be at LT if he regains his rookie form:

It's like a magic trick.  he made Nick Bosa disappear.

he erased the brothers that season. To be fair Nick got injured after only about 10 snaps.

[#27TheDominator]

10 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Yup.  An injury in a meaningless game is more devastating than an injury in a game that actually counts.  If you don't see the difference, I don't know what to say.  If a player sits out a preseason game, does anybody really care or remember?  When does winning a preseason game, or playing a portion of it count towards making the playoffs?  On the other hand, does any healthy player sit out the first game of the season to avoid injury ?  Look. I get the argument that you may want some players to play in the preseason to get ready for the games that do count, but I'm not sure I see the benefit in playing a few series or a quarter of a game from a preparation standpoint or why that is better than a practice in pads where the QBs don't get hit (intentionally). 

They barely even practice.  People talk about football shape, but without pads and hitting there is no football shape.  Guys like Rodgers and Brown may have been around long enough that they can crank it up on memory, but wearing a red jersey in practice is not really preparation for the season.

[Matt39]

17 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Yup.  An injury in a meaningless game is more devastating than an injury in a game that actually counts.  If you don't see the difference, I don't know what to say.  If a player sits out a preseason game, does anybody really care or remember?  When does winning a preseason game, or playing a portion of it count towards making the playoffs?  On the other hand, does any healthy player sit out the first game of the season to avoid injury ?  Look. I get the argument that you may want some players to play in the preseason to get ready for the games that do count, but I'm not sure I see the benefit in playing a few series or a quarter of a game from a preparation standpoint or why that is better than a practice in pads where the QBs don't get hit (intentionally). 

Do you think the Jets should practice or hit in practice? Where do you draw the line? No one cares about winning in preseason it’s about reps. 

[UntouchableCrew]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Preseason games can be more dangerous because there are players on the other side who may be desperate to make an impression, desperate enough to hurt one of your own guys. I wouldn’t play my starters unless I had an agreement with the opposing coach that he’d also be playing his. I don’t need any jints wannabe superheroes flying at Aaron Rodgers’ knees. 

That's my fear.

We're treating it like a tuneup but Giants players are fringe guys trying to make the roster by "flashing" and have nothing to lose.

[nycdan]

The only real concern would be a late hit by a NYG player desperate to make a splash.  They have to know that will get them cut more likely than retained, but sometimes desperate people are stupid.  Clearly the Jets OL knows they have to play through the whistle until there are no bodies moving near AR.  We have to hope for the best.

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

These two about to have a special season

 

Is Becton practicing without a knee brace?

[greenwichjetfan]

36 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Yup.  An injury in a meaningless game is more devastating than an injury in a game that actually counts.  If you don't see the difference, I don't know what to say.  If a player sits out a preseason game, does anybody really care or remember?  When does winning a preseason game, or playing a portion of it count towards making the playoffs?  On the other hand, does any healthy player sit out the first game of the season to avoid injury ?  Look. I get the argument that you may want some players to play in the preseason to get ready for the games that do count, but I'm not sure I see the benefit in playing a few series or a quarter of a game from a preparation standpoint or why that is better than a practice in pads where the QBs don't get hit (intentionally). 

You're all over the place. Of course I can understand the difference between preseason and regular season. No one is talking about winning a preseason game. No one is saying that the preseason games mean something towards the playoffs and the regular season doesn't. All I'm saying is that football players get hurt. There is randomness in it.

There is meaningful benefit to getting guys in tune with each other; especially in this year's case where Rodgers has never taken a snap on this team. The randomness of him getting hurt is not significantly more probable or impactful than him getting hurt on the second snap in week 1. Vinny getting hurt on his first dropback of the '99 regular season was so much better than Namath getting hurt in the preseason? What kind of nonsense is this? 

The only meaningful argument I've seen in favor of not letting him play is the below. Have the last word, I'm out.

1 hour ago, slats said:

Preseason games can be more dangerous because there are players on the other side who may be desperate to make an impression, desperate enough to hurt one of your own guys. I wouldn’t play my starters unless I had an agreement with the opposing coach that he’d also be playing his. I don’t need any jints wannabe superheroes flying at Aaron Rodgers’ knees. 

[UntouchableCrew]

10 minutes ago, nycdan said:

The only real concern would be a late hit by a NYG player desperate to make a splash.  They have to know that will get them cut more likely than retained, but sometimes desperate people are stupid.  Clearly the Jets OL knows they have to play through the whistle until there are no bodies moving near AR.  We have to hope for the best.

Yeah the hope is that our starting OL can just handle a bunch of guys who won't make the Giants roster but all it takes is one play.

[Gastineau Lives]

37 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Yup.  An injury in a meaningless game is more devastating than an injury in a game that actually counts.  If you don't see the difference, I don't know what to say.  If a player sits out a preseason game, does anybody really care or remember?  When does winning a preseason game, or playing a portion of it count towards making the playoffs?  On the other hand, does any healthy player sit out the first game of the season to avoid injury ?  Look. I get the argument that you may want some players to play in the preseason to get ready for the games that do count, but I'm not sure I see the benefit in playing a few series or a quarter of a game from a preparation standpoint or why that is better than a practice in pads where the QBs don't get hit (intentionally). 

Most of the difference between getting a qb injury in game 3 of the regular season and getting one because they played two or three series in a preseason game is emotional. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Because preseason games are completely meaningless and week 1 counts.  Because a few reps in a preseason game mean nothing and can be replicated in practices with pads without the contact on the QB.  Because the risk outweighs the reward.  Those would be the arguments. 

So using this logic, the same holds true for practices right?  They’re also meaningless.  
The logic is a huge fail.  Players get hurt.  Pretty much in practices, PS games or real games.  

 

[#27TheDominator]

27 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Most of the difference between getting a qb injury in game 3 of the regular season and getting one because they played two or three series in a preseason game is emotional. 

We Italians are an emotional lot.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Yup.  An injury in a meaningless game is more devastating than an injury in a game that actually counts.  If you don't see the difference, I don't know what to say.  If a player sits out a preseason game, does anybody really care or remember?  When does winning a preseason game, or playing a portion of it count towards making the playoffs?  On the other hand, does any healthy player sit out the first game of the season to avoid injury ?  Look. I get the argument that you may want some players to play in the preseason to get ready for the games that do count, but I'm not sure I see the benefit in playing a few series or a quarter of a game from a preparation standpoint or why that is better than a practice in pads where the QBs don't get hit (intentionally). 

There isn’t a difference.  Vinny being lost in game 1 or preseason game 4 is no different.  If you don’t get I don’t know what to tell you.  
Players have to play in order to play in the regular season and can get hurt.  Just as they can get hurt playing in actual games.  
No one gives a damn about winning preseason games.  Doesn’t mean you don’t need to practice.  That’s what counts towards making the playoffs.  Think Becton hasn’t needed to play on this PS?   

[David Harris]

1 hour ago, greenwichjetfan said:

 

This is where I am as well on the topic. The "meaning" of games is layered. The regular season is not a single entity; rather each week is 1/17th of the total. 

So the Namath injury was dramatically/significantly more scarring than the Vinny injury because Namath's occurred in a "meaningless" preseason game while Vinny's occurred on the first drop back of the "meaningful" regular season?

I love Curtis Martin, but I’ll never forgive him fumbling that ball. Vinny wasn’t dropping back, he lunged forward to try to recover the fumble.

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, David Harris said:

I love Curtis Martin, but I’ll never forgive him fumbling that ball. Vinny wasn’t dropping back, he lunged forward to try to recover the fumble.

I remember reading that the injury VT has was due to wear to the Achilles and it would have happened soon after

[JetsFlyer]

1 hour ago, nycdan said:

Just a reminder of what Becton *could* be at LT if he regains his rookie form:

It's like a magic trick.  he made Nick Bosa disappear.

Only myles made him look bad..that rookie year

[Barry McCockinner]

3 minutes ago, JetsFlyer said:

Only myles made him look bad..that rookie year

Clelin Ferrell got him too. He did have some trouble with speed rushers his rookie year but he also smothered some. The result is people saying "Mekhi can't block speed rushers".

[docdhc]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

So using this logic, the same holds true for practices right?  They’re also meaningless.  
The logic is a huge fail.  Players get hurt.  Pretty much in practices, PS games or real games.  

 

They can’t hit the QB in practice at least

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

I continue to marvel at the transformation of the EDGE position.

We went from Macc who basically neglected the position until his 4th or 5th year (and when he did, it was a flushed day 2 pick for Jachai freaking Polite) to this:

Lawson, JFM, Wilburt McDonald, Huff, JJ, Clemons

Around the time he was was canned, the team's top producing EDGE was Jordan Jenkins.

LOL

[Larz]

Saleh also said Corey Davis is still dealing with a personal matter, & "hopefully soon" he will be back

 

good news on CD

this fanbase deserves a full strength team on opening day 

[slimjasi]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I remember reading that the injury VT has was due to wear to the Achilles and it would have happened soon after

 

11 minutes ago, David Harris said:

I love Curtis Martin, but I’ll never forgive him fumbling that ball. Vinny wasn’t dropping back, he lunged forward to try to recover the fumble.

Maybe this is me making myself feel better about what happened, but I always wonder if Vinny was due to regress to the mean in 1999 (similar to Fitz in 2016), had he not gotten injured. 
 

Vinny was one of the best players in the entire league in 98, but that was quite an outlier season for him - maybe it was a flash in the pan? (The only other really good he had in his career was 96 and it wasn’t nearly as good). 
 

He always had major trouble avoiding the interceptions, with the exception of 98. He had already thrown one in that season opener before his injury and he would go on to throw 20 picks the following year upon his return. I just wonder if that torn Achilles saved us all from a different kind of pain . . . 

[SickJetFan]

2 hours ago, nycdan said:

Just a reminder of what Becton *could* be at LT if he regains his rookie form:

It's like a magic trick.  he made Nick Bosa disappear.

what he could be is playing LT for Dallas next year

[FidelioJet]

10 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

 

Maybe this is me making myself feel better about what happened, but I always wonder if Vinny was due to regress to the mean in 1999 (similar to Fitz in 2016), had he not gotten injured. 
 

Vinny was one of the best players in the entire league in 98, but that was quite an outlier season for him - maybe it was a flash in the pan? (The only other really good he had in his career was 96 and it wasn’t nearly as good). 
 

He always had major trouble avoiding the interceptions, with the exception of 98. He had already thrown one in that season opener before his injury and he would go on to throw 20 picks the following year upon his return. I just wonder if that torn Achilles saved us all from a different kind of pain . . . 

That team was absolutely going to be a top 5 offense.  What a Fing shame!

[genot]

2 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

I was not high on Kuntz.  He did have some bone headed penalties last game.  But he seems to do 2 things pretty well.

1- get open

2- catch the ball

For that reason, I think he may make the team.

If he makes the team, it will be because of his blocking ability. He obviously will be signed to the PS.