AVT 5th year option decision

[The Crusher]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Do you suggest throwing good money after bad because of optics?

Now, that's the way the Jets work - but it doesn't mean it's the proper decision.

Proper decision and the Jets are nothing more than a gigantic coincidence on the rare occasion it happens. 

[Alka]

15 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Taking a G in the first half of the first round (let alone trading up to do so) was always an awful decision.  
The fact that the guy can’t stay healthy makes a bad decision even worse. 
Would be crazy to pick it up. 

The future will decide which one of us is right.  He is a borderline all-pro guard when healthy, and lord knows the Jets need quality O line help.  Should he be let go, only to not get injured in the future and be an all-pro for another team, would make the Jets continue to look like a clown organization.

Pick up his option, and hope for the best.  If you are right, then it will have been a bad decision, but the reverse will make the Jets continue to look like a joke.  For the record, the Jets have made many, many more bad decisions than picking up AVT's option.

[Alka]

19 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

Seems like a no brainer but he has been injured a lot 

If AVT plays the entire 2024 season without substantial injury, and the Jets don't pick up his option as of May 2nd, then AVT will surely look for another team and a better contract.  If he plays at the probowl level that he is capable of, he will be certainly gone.

[FootballLove]

I don't believe we'd walk away from a mid 1st round pick plus TWO 3rd round picks so easily. I get he's had serious injuries. But he had no injury history prior to these. Now, if he's had multiple injuries AND he sucked when healthy (Becton-ish), then sure. Walk away. But AVT's been one of the best lineman in the sport when healthy. You roll the dice on healthy, and keep your fingers crossed. Maybe your toes, too.

 

[UntouchableCrew]

It’s a risk (and a real decision) but I think you pick it up and just pray he stays healthy. He can legitimately play at a position (OL) that is arguably the biggest weakness on the team.

[FidelioJet]

34 minutes ago, Alka said:

The future will decide which one of us is right.  He is a borderline all-pro guard when healthy, and lord knows the Jets need quality O line help.  Should he be let go, only to not get injured in the future and be an all-pro for another team, would make the Jets continue to look like a clown organization.

Pick up his option, and hope for the best.  If you are right, then it will have been a bad decision, but the reverse will make the Jets continue to look like a joke.  For the record, the Jets have made many, many more bad decisions than picking up AVT's option.

Borderline all-pro Guard is not worth of the number 15 pick.

[GreenFish]

I’d pick up the AVT option.

If I’m a QB needy team, I’m trading for Fields. If I’m the Bears, I’d keep him and trade back.

I’d pick up Fields option for sure. But a 3yr extension at $25M per year would be better.

A mistake for Fields would be what the Giants did and overpay. Mid 20’s is about right.

[TheClashFan]

It's a tough call, but I'd pick up the option on him and move him back to LG where he belongs. It's a risk b/c of consecutive serious injuries and one a lower leg, but they were not in the same place (unlike Becton), thus a lower chance at a chronic condition.

 

 

[Smashmouth]

12 hours ago, Dunnie said:

If you had used 'hope' instead of 'think'.... Id be with you. Love AVT ... But the best ability is avail'ability'. Especially on the OL.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

I used both Hope and Think

[bicketybam]

With the extra cap space wonder if Woody picks up Zax 5th year

That only makes sense in the ****ed up world you live in. Get help.

[Creepy Lurker]

2 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

6 hours ago, Matt39 said:

With the extra cap space wonder if Woody picks up Zax 5th year

That only makes sense in the ****ed up world you live in. Get help.

No it’s happening. Word on the street is that JetBlue agreed to change their name to JetGreen if Woody picks up the 5th year option. 

[Jethead]

no brainer. pick it up. upsides is vast, downside is Woody's $.

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, bicketybam said:

7 hours ago, Matt39 said:

With the extra cap space wonder if Woody picks up Zax 5th year

That only makes sense in the ****ed up world you live in. Get help.

 

[bicketybam]

 
http://content.invisioncic.com/y326398/monthly_2024_02/IMG_0267.gif.5c7fd962e0bdf8b13727819f1fc122af.gif

I think you were DOA when you shot out of the womb.

[Alka]

7 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Borderline all-pro Guard is not worth of the number 15 pick.

LOL!!  How many borderline all-pro offensive linemen are currently on the Jets roster?  The O line continues to be a joke.  

While in theory I may agree with your statement, the Jets need all the help they can get.  I hope our #15 pick from this past year can become a defensive edge borderline all-pro.  Now that would be something!!

[Beerfish]

Yes you pick it up but when a team happily is handing an ilb 17 million a year and seem to be afraid to make a good football decision you never know.

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, bicketybam said:

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

 
http://content.invisioncic.com/y326398/monthly_2024_02/IMG_0267.gif.5c7fd962e0bdf8b13727819f1fc122af.gif

I think you were DOA when you shot out of the womb.

go dry off and take a nap

[bitonti]

On 2/23/2024 at 4:31 PM, bonkertons said:

But yeah I think Tomlinson is going to stick around for another year if I had to guess. 

that dude sucks 

[bitonti]

Avt I like this player alot but  he's overrated because he's one of the 2 above average players on the line 

Being honest 15 mil is probably too much for a guy who suffered 2 major injuries in 2 years.

If it happens again what's his value?

Good teams let these guys go 

And in the case that he balls out they could still negotiate... Or if he walks and another team pays the Jets take the 3rd round comp in 2026 or whenever that arrives 

[derp]

54 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Avt I like this player alot but  he's overrated because he's one of the 2 above average players on the line 

Being honest 15 mil is probably too much for a guy who suffered 2 major injuries in 2 years.

If it happens again what's his value?

Good teams let these guys go 

And in the case that he balls out they could still negotiate... Or if he walks and another team pays the Jets take the 3rd round comp in 2026 or whenever that arrives 

Yeah, it seems like most of the thread is “pay him $15M because the OL is terrible”. Or don’t lock in top ten guard money on a guy who hasn’t played healthy or consistently functioned as a top ten guard.

Between that and the $13M that has been going to Tomlinson any borderline competent GM shouldn’t have any problem finding two guards who won’t hurt the team with some money left over.

No issue bringing AVT back but not at that price tag. Maybe they can work out a reasonable extension. But the price of that option is why guards hit the market and they will continue to do so. One of the reasons I don’t think iOL in the first is particularly prudent, the option just isn’t that valuable and it’s hard to get excess value on the rookie deal.

[slimjasi]

10 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

It’s a risk (and a real decision) but I think you pick it up and just pray he stays healthy. He can legitimately play at a position (OL) that is arguably the biggest weakness on the team.

Agreed

 

[bitonti]

48 minutes ago, derp said:

One of the reasons I don’t think iOL in the first is particularly prudent

If you take a guard in the top half of Rd 1 that guy better be Zack Martin or Quenton Nelson 

Side note the Jets could have sat at 6 and taken Quenton plus 3 2nd Rd picks they could have taken penei Sewell at 2 and what a difference that would have been 

The drafting of avt isn't discussed as much as Zach but it was a pretty bad whiff

Considering the guy Minnesota took with the Jets pick darrisaw is a borderline pro bowl left tackle 

[FidelioJet]

12 hours ago, Alka said:

LOL!!  How many borderline all-pro offensive linemen are currently on the Jets roster?  The O line continues to be a joke.  

While in theory I may agree with your statement, the Jets need all the help they can get.  I hope our #15 pick from this past year can become a defensive edge borderline all-pro.  Now that would be something!!

McD was a second round prospect.  I don’t thinking taking a 2nd round prospect at 15 is a very good idea either (especially when you his better already on the team) 

Just because the Jets can’t find a G later than 15 just means the Jets are are terrible organization- the league is littered with mid to late round starting guards.  
If you trade up to take a G at 15 he better be a boderline HOF otherwise it’s a bad pick. 

[derp]

8 hours ago, bitonti said:

If you take a guard in the top half of Rd 1 that guy better be Zack Martin or Quenton Nelson 

Side note the Jets could have sat at 6 and taken Quenton plus 3 2nd Rd picks they could have taken penei Sewell at 2 and what a difference that would have been 

The drafting of avt isn't discussed as much as Zach but it was a pretty bad whiff

Considering the guy Minnesota took with the Jets pick darrisaw is a borderline pro bowl left tackle 

Completely agree with your first line.

I bring up the Darrisaw thing a bunch. Quinn Meinerz who was talked about a lot here and I think they coached at the Senior Bowl went after the thirds they traded away.

A lot of us wanted Creed Humphrey too - was there for the taking instead of Moore. And obviously Wirfs vs. Becton. Imagine how this team looks with a Darrisaw - someone - Humphrey - Meinerz - Wirfs OL.

[T0mShane]

9 hours ago, bitonti said:

If you take a guard in the top half of Rd 1 that guy better be Zack Martin or Quenton Nelson 

Side note the Jets could have sat at 6 and taken Quenton plus 3 2nd Rd picks they could have taken penei Sewell at 2 and what a difference that would have been 

The drafting of avt isn't discussed as much as Zach but it was a pretty bad whiff

Considering the guy Minnesota took with the Jets pick darrisaw is a borderline pro bowl left tackle 

The alleged appeal of hiring Joe Douglas was that he was going to have an eye for OL talent, but that’s obviously proven to be wrong. Caveat: I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the OL went to hell with Zach Wilson under center because he was 1. Clueless and 2. held the ball too long. Caveat to the caveat: I also think there’s been a lot of bad positional coaching involved. I’ve never seen a group of OL consistently get cooked by simple stunts in the opposing DL. I think McGovern has been a drag on the OL at center, and I recall that when Denver let him walk the implication was that he was plum stupid. 

[derp]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The alleged appeal of hiring Joe Douglas was that he was going to have an eye for OL talent, but that’s obviously proven to be wrong. Caveat: I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the OL went to hell with Zach Wilson under center because he was 1. Clueless and 2. held the ball too long. Caveat to the caveat: I also think there’s been a lot of bad positional coaching involved. I’ve never seen a group of OL consistently get cooked by simple stunts in the opposing DL. I think McGovern has been a drag on the OL at center, and I recall that when Denver let him walk the implication was that he was plum stupid. 

All the caveats stand - but Douglas has done nothing to show an eye for OL talent. The philosophy to building it has been first and second round picks expected to start (with minimal returns thus far), developmental fourth rounders who haven’t developed, and eight figure AAV FA’s who largely haven’t worked out either.

Not that *all* of it is supposed to work out, but there’s just really nothing for him to hang his hat on.

[T0mShane]

13 minutes ago, derp said:

All the caveats stand - but Douglas has done nothing to show an eye for OL talent. The philosophy to building it has been first and second round picks expected to start (with minimal returns thus far), developmental fourth rounders who haven’t developed, and eight figure AAV FA’s who largely haven’t worked out either.

Not that *all* of it is supposed to work out, but there’s just really nothing for him to hang his hat on.

Agreed. I know I thought that he’d bring something in that area because of his Eagles and Ravens ties, but even in those situations there were whiffs. His last first rounded prior to taking the Jets job was Andre Dillard.

[Creepy Lurker]

34 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Agreed. I know I thought that he’d bring something in that area because of his Eagles and Ravens ties, but even in those situations there were whiffs. His last first rounded prior to taking the Jets job was Andre Dillard.

Words cannot describe my hatred for JD. 

[UntouchableCrew]

49 minutes ago, derp said:

All the caveats stand - but Douglas has done nothing to show an eye for OL talent. The philosophy to building it has been first and second round picks expected to start (with minimal returns thus far), developmental fourth rounders who haven’t developed, and eight figure AAV FA’s who largely haven’t worked out either.

Not that *all* of it is supposed to work out, but there’s just really nothing for him to hang his hat on.

Agreed. If you were to look at Joe Douglas’ entire Jets resume the failure to build the offensive line despite investing copious resources in it is his biggest failure. Whiffing on Zach Wilson is the single biggest mistake (and what will ultimately cost him his job) but QBs are always a bit of a gamble. As someone who has supposed to have an eye for OL talent he’s had years and years to fix this thing and has sunk high picks, mid round picks, FA money etc. into the situation and it’s no better off than when he took over.

[Larz]

I honestly don’t see him playing himself into a mega deal that will result in the jets losing him or having to pay a lot more than 15 mill a year so I decline and see how this year goes. 
 

it’s a risk, he might get butt hurt, he might make the pro bowl and demand 20 million, but it’s a business and the data right now says decline 

[Creepy Lurker]

1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Agreed. If you were to look at Joe Douglas’ entire Jets resume the failure to build the offensive line despite investing copious resources in it is his biggest failure. Whiffing on Zach Wilson is the single biggest mistake (and what will ultimately cost him his job) but QBs are always a bit of a gamble. As someone who has supposed to have an eye for OL talent he’s had years and years to fix this thing and has sunk high picks, mid round picks, FA money etc. into the situation and it’s no better off than when he took over.

Bingo. The Zach miss is not nearly the biggest issue with JD. 

[UntouchableCrew]

2 hours ago, derp said:

Completely agree with your first line.

I bring up the Darrisaw thing a bunch. Quinn Meinerz who was talked about a lot here and I think they coached at the Senior Bowl went after the thirds they traded away.

A lot of us wanted Creed Humphrey too - was there for the taking instead of Moore. And obviously Wirfs vs. Becton. Imagine how this team looks with a Darrisaw - someone - Humphrey - Meinerz - Wirfs OL.

I mean if we’re fixing draft mistakes with the benefit of hindsight let’s just take Patrick Mahomes instead of Jamal Adams.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

11 hours ago, bitonti said:

If you take a guard in the top half of Rd 1 that guy better be Zack Martin or Quenton Nelson 

Side note the Jets could have sat at 6 and taken Quenton plus 3 2nd Rd picks they could have taken penei Sewell at 2 and what a difference that would have been 

The drafting of avt isn't discussed as much as Zach but it was a pretty bad whiff

Considering the guy Minnesota took with the Jets pick darrisaw is a borderline pro bowl left tackle 

 

Notre Dame linemen vs Charmin soft USC.  

[Jimmy 2 Times]

JD has been a huge upgrade to the previous gm's by his prioritizing positional value alone, but I'm starting to side with those who think he sucks.

The guy has invested more into the o-line than anyone in the history of the sport, yet it's still the worst line in the league. 

 

When the entire o-line goes down year after year, eventually you need to realize that it's not just bad luck.  Something is rotten in the building.  They need to root it out.  

 

 

JD was the hot name and Woody gave him a six year deal to get it done.  They're been very patient and have given him a fair chance to build this team.

I don't think his failure will stop the next hot name from coming here.  

[Darnold's Forehead]

23 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Agreed. If you were to look at Joe Douglas’ entire Jets resume the failure to build the offensive line despite investing copious resources in it is his biggest failure. Whiffing on Zach Wilson is the single biggest mistake (and what will ultimately cost him his job) but QBs are always a bit of a gamble. As someone who has supposed to have an eye for OL talent he’s had years and years to fix this thing and has sunk high picks, mid round picks, FA money etc. into the situation and it’s no better off than when he took over.

I agree with everything you wrote 100%.

But the sad truth of the matter is that nothing will change until this team diagnoses its bizarre injury issue.  OLmen are supposed to be tough and able to play through minimal injuries.  But they have had a ton of injuries and they have all been big ones.  When JD took over, we had OLmen who could stay healthy but were all terrible players.

Tomlinson has been the only one to hang on and obviously he’s our worst OLman.  Tippmann showed some upside but got injured multiple times for multiple weeks.  Is he injury prone too?  It’s certainly possible.  So far not a single JD pick has stayed healthy (except maybe Warren who barely played?)  Hell, Clark was out of the league before he even played - Mitchell missed time with another medical condition.  Is there anyway to predict this sh*t when drafting players who had no injury histories in college?

Still, it all falls on JD because it has to fall on someone.  But after watching Rodgers go down in one of the most cruel situations imaginable, this team has some real injury taboo issues going on.  Hoping we catch a break with a new draft pick or FA, but I’m not holding my breath.  I believe next season will once again be ruined by injuries some way or another.