3Peat Could Put Both Reid & Mahomes into GOAT Conversation

[slats]

4 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Mostly just as honorable mentions. Being the first 3-peat duo would give them both a legit argument at the top spot. 

Since Mahomes became their starter six years ago, they’ve made it at least as far as the AFC Championship Game every year, winning four times, and winning the Super Bowl three of those times. He’s already the GOAT as far a I’m concerned. Unless it’s the Jets stopping them this year, I’ll root for them to three-peat - just to make it official. 
 
Belichick could try to come back and pass Shula on the all time list, but it wouldn’t matter. Andy’s gonna be the top guy when he finally decides to hang them up, regardless. 

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

Since Mahomes became their starter six years ago, they’ve made it at least as far as the AFC Championship Game every year, winning four times, and winning the Super Bowl three of those times. He’s already the GOAT as far a I’m concerned. Unless it’s the Jets stopping them this year, I’ll root for them to three-peat - just to make it official. 
 
Belichick could try to come back and pass Shula on the all time list, but it wouldn’t matter. Andy’s gonna be the top guy when he finally decides to hang them up, regardless. 

If Rodgers puts two more rings on his fingers, the GOAT conversation gets more interesting.  Let's root for that

 

[RutgersJetFan]

20 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Right, but I don’t remember an offseason where a bunch of Pats got arrested. 

Aside from the ones where the star tight end got arrested for murder and the franchise owner got busted in a prostitution ring?

[T0mShane]

41 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Aside from the ones where the star tight end got arrested for murder and the franchise owner got busted in a prostitution ring?

My grasp on history isn’t what it was. 

[Barry McCockinner]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Since Mahomes became their starter six years ago, they’ve made it at least as far as the AFC Championship Game every year, winning four times, and winning the Super Bowl three of those times. He’s already the GOAT as far a I’m concerned. Unless it’s the Jets stopping them this year, I’ll root for them to three-peat - just to make it official. 
 
Belichick could try to come back and pass Shula on the all time list, but it wouldn’t matter. Andy’s gonna be the top guy when he finally decides to hang them up, regardless. 

I'm not sure, I might agree. For me it's between Manning & Mahomes at this point. Close but maybe just a bit early to put Mahomes at the top (need to see a little more longevity I think). A lot of people (not me) put more weight on championships than individual play for this conversation. That's why I think the 3-peat would be a big deal.

What Mahomes does physically is the best I've seen. It's the stuff Manning did between the ears that separates him. So far as I can tell watching from my couch Mahomes isn't doing that level stuff.

[southparkcpa]

15 hours ago, JohnnyLV said:

They aren't already?

They got lucky…. Everyone knows MAC was right, choosing a box safety over Mahommes was the right pick. You know, stay with your journeyman QB and strengthen the safety position.  

[southparkcpa]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Since Mahomes became their starter six years ago, they’ve made it at least as far as the AFC Championship Game every year, winning four times, and winning the Super Bowl three of those times. He’s already the GOAT as far a I’m concerned. Unless it’s the Jets stopping them this year, I’ll root for them to three-peat - just to make it official. 
 
Belichick could try to come back and pass Shula on the all time list, but it wouldn’t matter. Andy’s gonna be the top guy when he finally decides to hang them up, regardless. 

And both had a TOP TIER QB.  With McNabb, Reid went to 4 NFC Championship games as well…McNabb just wasn’t top tier, but was very close.  

[Claymation]

8 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

No way.

Old man Rodgers will make sure it doesn't happen.

Did Zach's failure hurt you that much?

[rldev]

On 6/29/2024 at 8:28 PM, T0mShane said:

As of right now, who knows? That wasn’t exactly a wagon last year and they’re swapping out a bunch of key players going into next season. Granted Mahomes is worth 10 wins by himself, but they can be got. Even their playoff run—other than the beatdown they put on the Dolphins in -100 degrees- saw them win by 3, 7, and 3 points. 

I recall another team that won a lot of Super Bowls by late field goal heroics.

[slimjasi]

On 6/29/2024 at 4:12 PM, T0mShane said:

Chiefs have too much bullsh*t going on around them this offseason. This is the year it catches up to them. I think if Harbaugh can nurse Herbert through puberty this year, the Chargers can bully their way through that division. 

This is my best guess, as well 

KC did not feel like the best team last year and it felt like they pulled that championship out of the fire. 

[PFSIKH]

They are already in the conversation.

Mahomes - He has three rings.  He turns 29 this year.  Brady won his 4th when he was 37.  Putting Nick Wright's bloviating over Florio merely bringing up the R word with Patrick aside.  If Patrick can avoid the decade drought Brady had and win a couple over the next 5 years, he can wrestle the crown from Brady.  A three-peat gives him something Brady never accomplished and mutes the Brady vs. Mahomes head-to-head playoff games.

Reid - Assuming Bill does not get another shot, even if he does, Andy is 63 wins from the all-time record.  If the Chiefs average 12 wins a season and win at least three playoff games over the next five years is doable.  If he plays longer than 5 years, he will in all likelihood set the record.  If he can win a couple more titles, combined with his sustained success will put him in the conversation.  Similar to Patrick, a three-peat would be a feather o one could match.

[RutgersJetFan]

43 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

This is my best guess, as well 

KC did not feel like the best team last year and it felt like they pulled that championship out of the fire. 

They do the thing that championship teams do where they do just enough in the regular season to get to the playoffs and that's when they start pressing the gas. 

The thing about the NFL playoff format is that you don't need to be the best team in the league to win a Super Bowl. In single-elimination tournaments anything can happen and Reid's strategy is their experience + Mahomes always finding a way to pull something out of his ass when it matters most. 

[slimjasi]

11 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

They do the thing that championship teams do where they do just enough in the regular season to get to the playoffs and that's when they start pressing the gas. 

The thing about the NFL playoff format is that you don't need to be the best team in the league to win a Super Bowl. In single-elimination tournaments anything can happen and Reid's strategy is their experience + Mahomes always finding a way to pull something out of his ass when it matters most. 

Agree with all of this but I just don’t think it’s gonna be their year 

Last year’s title didn’t feel like the middle of a 3 peat to me. 

They are the favorite, but I’m taking the field 

[Rich Thornburgh]

On 6/29/2024 at 4:42 PM, extmenace said:

Their offensive weapons were pretty bad last year outside of a declining kelce. I think last year was supposed to be a down year and they won the sb. This KC team has the best HC and the best QB in the league. With that combo and a top 5-10 defense, KC will always be in the championship conversation.

Marquise Brown is going to go nuts with Mahomes 

[Doggin94it]

On 6/29/2024 at 5:36 PM, T0mShane said:

Right, but I don’t remember an offseason where a bunch of Pats got arrested. 

 

On 6/29/2024 at 8:28 PM, T0mShane said:

As of right now, who knows? That wasn’t exactly a wagon last year and they’re swapping out a bunch of key players going into next season. Granted Mahomes is worth 10 wins by himself, but they can be got. Even their playoff run—other than the beatdown they put on the Dolphins in -100 degrees- saw them win by 3, 7, and 3 points. 

They added Hollywood Brown and Xavier Worthy to an offense that had one and only one weakness last year: no real deep threat led to a lack of explosive plays on O as defenses could pack the middle of the field. That O is going to be a beast this year

[Warfish]

Reid is already in the elite group of coaches that can claim "best ever" status.  A three-peat will help of course, but his legacy is already secured as one of the best ever.

Mahomes? He still has a ways to go IMO.  He's been amazing since coming into the league, no doubt, and he's led a mostly loaded Chiefs team to several titles, absolutely.  He's probably already top 10 ever, maybe top 5 even, no doubt.

Be to be GOAT?  He needs to win a few more titles.  And maybe do it without Reid and Kelce and the rest, to carry on his own back a non-elite roster to a title or two as well.

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Reid is already in the elite group of coaches that can claim "best ever" status.  A three-peat will help of course, but his legacy is already secured as one of the best ever.

Mahomes? He still has a ways to go IMO.  He's been amazing since coming into the league, no doubt, and he's led a mostly loaded Chiefs team to several titles, absolutely.  He's probably already top 10 ever, maybe top 5 even, no doubt.

Be to be GOAT?  He needs to win a few more titles.  And maybe do it without Reid and Kelce and the rest, to carry on his own back a non-elite roster to a title or two as well.

I am curious how you qualify the Chiefs of the last two years as 'mostly loaded'.

They never replaced Hill, leaving Kelce as his only reliable pass catcher.  They have a very good, but not dominant defense.  They haven't had a star RB although Pacheco did look very good last year.

The Chiefs' roster always gets high grades because of Mahomes.  I would argue that if you take him out of the equation, it is a league-average roster.  Some good defensive players, a great TE, and a few other very good players but nothing remotely like SF.  It is oddly a similar construction to the NE teams when Gronk was there.  

 

 

[Warfish]

26 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I am curious how you qualify the Chiefs of the last two years as 'mostly loaded'.

They never replaced Hill, leaving Kelce as his only reliable pass catcher.  They have a very good, but not dominant defense.  They haven't had a star RB although Pacheco did look very good last year.

The Chiefs' roster always gets high grades because of Mahomes.  I would argue that if you take him out of the equation, it is a league-average roster.  Some good defensive players, a great TE, and a few other very good players but nothing remotely like SF.  It is oddly a similar construction to the NE teams when Gronk was there.  

Ok.

Not an opinion I hold so strongly that I care to debate it (or research it tbqh, which would take time). 

If you believe the Chiefs rosters were just 'average', cool.  That makes Mahomes look better then.

[DoubleDown]

43 minutes ago, nycdan said:

The Chiefs' roster always gets high grades because of Mahomes.  I would argue that if you take him out of the equation, it is a league-average roster.

Agreed.

If you look at the success of the Patriots under Brady and Chiefs under Mahomes over the past 25 or so years, you can make a very strong argument that it really is all about the quarterback.

[rex-n-effect]

I think Reid gets into that discussion given his long history of success and how many successful coaches come out of his coaching tree. IMO the GOAT HC title should go to a successful coach who developed a scheme that became an institution in football and developed a successful coaching tree. Those are metrics of coaching success that don't rely on lucking into a HOF QB in the draft and speak to job duties specific to the coach. Reid is definitely part of the discussion in the tier below that had long term success and developed a successful coaching tree. 

Mahomes looks to be in that GOAT QB discussion but he's got a lot of career to go to seriously talk about him on Montana, P. Manning, Unitas, etc. level. 

 

[jbone]

On 6/30/2024 at 8:55 AM, Raideraholic said:

Do I have to say it- the last team to beat the Chiefs . The Raiders . Truth be told the Raiders should have beat the chiefs twice last year.       The Raiders were built to beat the Chiefs . Their defense kicked the chiefs arse and only going to get worse with addition of Dt’s C Wilkins .    Raiders have the better defense .  Chiefs couldn’t stop the Raiders rushing attack , it only gets better with Bowers and Mayer .   Not to mention return of their Lt K miller and addition of Lg Jackson Powers Johnson. 
no teams in the afc west has their weapons Devante Adams , Jakobi Meyers, Tre Tucker ( will be star this year - most important Raider) Te Michael Mayer and Brock Bowers .    Rb Zamir “Zeus”white - most impressive looking specimen at Rb in NFL.          Rb  Dylan Laube - this guy going to do serious damage as third down back.  Poor man Christian Mccaffrey. 
Chiefs do have best Qb in the league .  ( even best when knock them on their butt look like Zach Wilson) People in the Chiefs organization getting tired of Travis Kelce antics.( you think what he did to Andy Reid in Super Bowl was forgotten)    This situation has chance to blowup .      

Jets should have beaten the Chiefs too. I feel your pain.

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Ok.

Not an opinion I hold so strongly that I care to debate it (or research it tbqh, which would take time). 

If you believe the Chiefs rosters were just 'average', cool.  That makes Mahomes look better then.

Totally agreed.  

 

[faba]

Mahomes is already on that or close to it. Who would you want to win one game for you right now-Mahomes

[Raideraholic]

Take it right from the source.  Add  C Wilkins and healthy Tyree Wilson and Mahomes might not make it out of the Raider game.     

[nycdan]

48 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

Take it right from the source.  Add  C Wilkins and healthy Tyree Wilson and Mahomes might not make it out of the Raider game.     

Congrats.  You won a game.  After 6 straight losses.  You do know LV is 4-16 vs. KC over the last 10 years.  

I totally get your being optimistic every year about your team.  But do try to live in the real world now and then. 

 

 

[UntouchableCrew]

On 6/30/2024 at 8:55 AM, Raideraholic said:

Do I have to say it- the last team to beat the Chiefs . The Raiders . Truth be told the Raiders should have beat the chiefs twice last year.       The Raiders were built to beat the Chiefs . Their defense kicked the chiefs arse and only going to get worse with addition of Dt’s C Wilkins .    Raiders have the better defense .  Chiefs couldn’t stop the Raiders rushing attack , it only gets better with Bowers and Mayer .   Not to mention return of their Lt K miller and addition of Lg Jackson Powers Johnson. 
no teams in the afc west has their weapons Devante Adams , Jakobi Meyers, Tre Tucker ( will be star this year - most important Raider) Te Michael Mayer and Brock Bowers .    Rb Zamir “Zeus”white - most impressive looking specimen at Rb in NFL.          Rb  Dylan Laube - this guy going to do serious damage as third down back.  Poor man Christian Mccaffrey. 
Chiefs do have best Qb in the league .  ( even best when knock them on their butt look like Zach Wilson) People in the Chiefs organization getting tired of Travis Kelce antics.( you think what he did to Andy Reid in Super Bowl was forgotten)    This situation has chance to blowup .      

I don't believe that you believe this.

[UntouchableCrew]

8 hours ago, slimjasi said:

This is my best guess, as well 

KC did not feel like the best team last year and it felt like they pulled that championship out of the fire. 

On one hand, I agree.

On the other hand part of why they don't "feel" like the super elite team they used to be is that they've reallocated all of their resources from offense to defense. So we're not getting 2018-19 Chiefs that felt like they couldn't be stopped on offense -- we're getting a team with an elite defense and the best QB and HC in the game. Don't feel as unstoppable but still really, really good.

[rex-n-effect]

9 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

On one hand, I agree.

On the other hand part of why they don't "feel" like the super elite team they used to be is that they've reallocated all of their resources from offense to defense. So we're not getting 2018-19 Chiefs that felt like they couldn't be stopped on offense -- we're getting a team with an elite defense and the best QB and HC in the game. Don't feel as unstoppable but still really, really good.

So they're following the Jets model??

[UntouchableCrew]

6 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

So they're following the Jets model??

What's funny is this is how most top QBs "won" the most. Peyton (and even Brady) didn't really win much in their most statistically dominant seasons -- they won titles (for the most part) when their defenses were great (or at least showed up in the playoffs.)

[Raideraholic]

27 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I don't believe that you believe this.

Antonio Pierce took his Raider team into Arrowhead and kicked their arse .   Last team that beat them last year. Facts.      Raiders should won the first meeting .      

don’t get tough Kermit the frog(. Mahomes). 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, nycdan said:

Congrats.  You won a game.  After 6 straight losses.  You do know LV is 4-16 vs. KC over the last 10 years.  

I totally get your being optimistic every year about your team.  But do try to live in the real world now and then. 

Or don't, because its entertaining!

[Beerfish]

Very very tough to win 3 but I would not count KC out, they had the biggest stink fest of wr last year and they still won.

[slimjasi]

38 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

On one hand, I agree.

On the other hand part of why they don't "feel" like the super elite team they used to be is that they've reallocated all of their resources from offense to defense. So we're not getting 2018-19 Chiefs that felt like they couldn't be stopped on offense -- we're getting a team with an elite defense and the best QB and HC in the game. Don't feel as unstoppable but still really, really good.

For sure. 

I would still make them the favorite, but would also happily bet on the field this year

[PS17]

5 hours ago, nycdan said:

I am curious how you qualify the Chiefs of the last two years as 'mostly loaded'.

They never replaced Hill, leaving Kelce as his only reliable pass catcher.  They have a very good, but not dominant defense.  They haven't had a star RB although Pacheco did look very good last year.

The Chiefs' roster always gets high grades because of Mahomes.  I would argue that if you take him out of the equation, it is a league-average roster.  Some good defensive players, a great TE, and a few other very good players but nothing remotely like SF.  It is oddly a similar construction to the NE teams when Gronk was there.  

 

 

This skill group is below average, arguably bottom ten. That Mahomes won a Super Bowl this season is astounding. I thought the Chiefs were absolutely cooked in December.

The 2022 group that he threw for 5200 yards/41 TDs with was not much better, for the record. 

[PS17]

2 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

Take it right from the source.  Add  C Wilkins and healthy Tyree Wilson and Mahomes might not make it out of the Raider game.     

The Raiders are terrible. Go take a walk.