Jets\Pats -- Belly Cheated: MERGED

[#27TheDominator]

So what your trying to say is it`s like if you robbed a bank but got caught & didn`t make it out of the bank with the cash , then you really didn`t have any affect on their cash flow so it shoul;dn`t be a crime either...

I have no idea how your bank robber analogy relates. Who said they don't deserve to be punished? They cheated, but it's ridiculous that every NFL team wouldn't be on the look-out for this "assistant video coach".

What I'm saying is:

1. If I were BB I'd have had a different guy to take the film each week. I especially would not re-use a guy that had previously been caught.

2. The Jets got their ass kicked and this cheating almost certainly had very little to do with "Brady knowing exactly what we were going to do" or whatever Kerry Rhodes said. An ass kicking is an ass kicking and that is what this was.

[Sperm Edwards]

So what your trying to say is it`s like if you robbed a bank but got caught & didn`t make it out of the bank with the cash , then you really didn`t have any affect on their cash flow so it shoul;dn`t be a crime either...

I think what he's saying is, that the bank robber may have made off with a couple of bucks, but the reason the account reads zero is b/c we kept leaving signed, blank checks around in public places.

It's still a crime, but we weren't as seriously harmed by the crime as the criminal's punishment is likely to be.

...and if a criminal knows his phone is tapped, he should use an outside line to discuss the plan instead of calling from home.

[#27TheDominator]

You're being a lawyer 27.

i said "The spy was nabbed ny NFL security, not the Jets."

So who cares if the jets asked NFL security to look into what the guy was doing?

He was taken in (nabbed!) by the NFL, not the Jets!

And i know i havent made a claim that the loss was a direct result of the spying, but who is to say that stealing the signals didnt have an effect on the outcome?

Several players and Simms have comented that they seemed to know what D the jets were running before the play.

It's no secret that the jets' advantage is in scheming, not talent, and the cheating nullified that.

Being a lawyer has nothing to do with it. I'm responding directly to your comments about Garb. You are being a lawyer by acting like the fact NFL security actually nabbed the guy means the Jets weren't behind it.

Very true.

On the other hand if BB is such a genius why use a previously convicted videographer?

[joewilly]

You're being a lawyer 27.

i said "The spy was nabbed ny NFL security, not the Jets."

So who cares if the jets asked NFL security to look into what the guy was doing?

He was taken in (nabbed!) by the NFL, not the Jets!

And i know i havent made a claim that the loss was a direct result of the spying, but who is to say that stealing the signals didnt have an effect on the outcome?

Several players and Simms have comented that they seemed to know what D the jets were running before the play.

It's no secret that the jets' advantage is in scheming, not talent, and the cheating nullified that.

I agree here cane.......... #27 the fact is that we just don't know how the spying affected the 2nd half of play. We do know the balance of play was much more lopsided than the previous 7 halfs of football played between mangini & belly.

[JetCane]

So if a witness to a crime points out the perp to the police and they arrest him, who nabbed him? The witness? i think not.

[gg]

Do you realize what 9/11 will also mean on the board forever and forever?

The Pat fans performed the biggest circle jerk in Jet Nation history.

Poor Garb's hands are getting muscular.

i am sure you didnt mean to say it like that.. because to assume that 9/11 would mean anything to anyone on this board OTHER then the attacks on the US.. would be really offensive.

so i will just assume that you were trying to "joke"

i guess there are some things that i don't think are funny and should be kidded about.

imho.

[#27TheDominator]

I agree here cane.......... #27 the fact is that we just don't know how the spying affected the 2nd half of play. We do know the balance of play was much more lopsided than the previous 7 halfs of football played between mangini & belly.

That may be true. I tend to be from the line up and beat your man school of football more than the wonderlic scheme school. Still, to continue beating the dead horse, if we were so smart, adaptable and good at schemes, obviously aware by halftime that they knew our signals, wouldn't we have made alternative plans? Or were we just supposed to take our beating and hope the league does something? Maybe the 15,000 page penguin playbook is too complex to alter mid-game. I don't know.

[PFSIKH]

On the other hand if BB is such a genius why use a previously convicted videographer?

I know.

I agree here cane.......... #27 the fact is that we just don't know how the spying affected the 2nd half of play. We do know the balance of play was much more lopsided than the previous 7 halfs of football played between mangini & belly.

JW - Really?

Maybe you need to re-look those game tapes.

[timbok]

a third or fifth round pick does nothing...u rarely find any good players ..except on the rare cases...

a forfeit would be nice..so all afc east teams would be 0-1

[Verde]

i am sure you didnt mean to say it like that.. because to assume that 9/11 would mean anything to anyone on this board OTHER then the attacks on the US.. would be really offensive.

so i will just assume that you were trying to "joke"

i guess there are some things that i don't think are funny and should be kidded about.

imho.

My thoughts exactly. Thanks, gg.

[nyjetsjetsjets]

from profootballtalk.com

POSTED 8:58 a.m. EDT, September 12, 2007

WERE PATS STUNG BY COMPETITION COMMITTEE?

There's a theory making the rounds in league circles that the Sunday confiscation of Matt Estrella's camera was the result of a specific effort by the NFL's Competition Committee to nail the Patriots.

It was, some believe, a sting operation.

Rumors also are swirling that Jets coach Eric Mangini, who was with the Pats through the 2005 season, began to spread the word to other teams in 2006 regarding the tactics that Bill Belichick employs. But even after a close call last year in Green Bay, the Patriots kept doing it.

The thinking in some circles is that the Competition Committee, which has endorsed the use of a radio receiver in the helmet of one defensive player, wants to use the Patriots' situation as the impetus for getting the additional two votes necessary to pass the rule.

In March 2007, 22 of the 24 teams needed to push the measure through voted in favor of it.

Though such a rule will not be perfect given the extent of the substitutions made on defense, it would eliminate the temptation to steal defensive signals, because it would eliminate the defensive signals.

And, in our view, it's a no-brainer that this rule will be passed come March 2008.

[#27TheDominator]

So if a witness to a crime points out the perp to the police and they arrest him, who nabbed him? The witness? i think not.

Talk about lawyering up. History lesson: Garb didn't say nabbed. She said in her opinion Mangini was out to get BB. You claimed she was "delusional" because NFL security "nabbed" the guy. When the ex-wife is a witness against a client would you ignore it because the police actually "nabbed" him or do you consider that there may be gamesmanship and ulterior motives?

[PFSIKH]

Showing a lack of production does not factor into it at all.

Pete Rose didn't get banned from baseball because he WON bets; he got banned because he PLACED bets. MLB didn't say, "Well, even though he broke a major rule, he lost his bet anyway. So we'll ignore it."

Same applies here. Showing the Pats #'s as comparable to someone else's doesn't mean cheating ATTEMPTS didn't occur in one or many of those games.

This is why this is such a big deal. No one knows which games the Pats cheated in & which ones they didn't cheat in.

This is why BB needs to be (at least) suspended, as well as any players proven to be in on it as well. You can't have a situation where future wins for your franchise are called into question because of a connection with those previously corrupt players/coaches. Many, if not most, people believe "once a crook always a crook" & that could cast a shadow of doubt over any game - or at least any meaningful game - that NE wins.

Even though most Patriots fans are human garbage, an argument can be made that every single Pats fan doesn't deserve to have this hanging over a team he roots for.

That is a funny post Sperm.

[nyjetsjetsjets]

That is a funny post Sperm.

Its a very accurate post. Rooting for a team that cheated is one thing, but defending the cheating, wow. thats terrible. It makes me not even want to waste my time paying attention to the wwe, i mean nfl. Yet, it doesn't even bother you that your team cheated, possibly to those glorious super bowl rings?

[nyjetsjetsjets]

nothing less than a suspension is enough in my opinion. whoever authorized this needs to be punished heavily, at least as heavy as a player who took banned supplements.

which has a bigger outcome on a game, stealing the other teams plays or one player taking supplements?

[nyjetsjetsjets]

Talk about lawyering up. History lesson: Garb didn't say nabbed. She said in her opinion Mangini was out to get BB. You claimed she was "delusional" because NFL security "nabbed" the guy. When the ex-wife is a witness against a client would you ignore it because the police actually "nabbed" him or do you consider that there may be gamesmanship and ulterior motives?

And Mangini should be out for him. The other team was cheating, if I was playing on a team and I knew the other team was cheating I would be pissed too.

[bitonti]

Steelers assistant coaches say privately that New England coach Bill Belichick has illegally used cameras to spy on opposing coaches flashing signals from the sideline for years, even when he was coach of the Cleveland Browns.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07255/816713-66.stm?cmpid=steelers.xml

[#90]

POW WINNER!!!!!!!!!! (Hands down)

Clayton typed this gibberish from a stall in the bathroom at Minneapolis International Airport while tapping out a signal for companionship to the adjoining stall occupant.

[Maxman]

Does this mean Mangini has to go into the witness protection program?

You know what though? Mangini has serious balls. Most guys would be afraid of Belly. I give him credit, he isn't afraid of nothing. Good for him.

[shawn306]

Do you think the border war just heated up a little bit more ?

[JetCane]

Talk about lawyering up. History lesson: Garb didn't say nabbed. She said in her opinion Mangini was out to get BB. You claimed she was "delusional" because NFL security "nabbed" the guy. When the ex-wife is a witness against a client would you ignore it because the police actually "nabbed" him or do you consider that there may be gamesmanship and ulterior motives?

You have fallen into her faulty logic.

It was the Pats who set out to fuhk the Jets (she said she thought mangin was out to fuhk the pats).

The pats fuhked themselves, in the process of trying to fuchk over their opponents by cheating.

It is delusional to put any blame for fukking on Mangini here. This is all the pats mea culpa, no matter how some twisted pats fans want to spin it.

They fukked themselves. I accept no blame for this on anything the Jets did.

[Maxman]

Hey this is half joking but let's say the Pats lose 3 picks. Because Belly cheated 3 college kids will never be able to say that they were drafted by an NFL team.

Bill Belichick, stealing dreams and hurting people. It's what he does best.

[NIGHT STALKER]

i am sure you didnt mean to say it like that.. because to assume that 9/11 would mean anything to anyone on this board OTHER then the attacks on the US.. would be really offensive.

so i will just assume that you were trying to "joke"

i guess there are some things that i don't think are funny and should be kidded about.

imho.

Instead of attacking Senior, why don't go read your buddy Garb's comments on 9/11 or is she off limits because she's your "bud"?!

[#27TheDominator]

You have fallen into her faulty logic.

It was the Pats who set out to fuhk the Jets (she said she thought mangin was out to fuhk the pats).

The pats fuhked themselves, in the process of trying to fuchk over their opponents by cheating.

It is delusional to put any blame for fukking on Mangini here. This is all the pats mea culpa, no matter how some twisted pats fans want to spin it.

They fukked themselves. I accept no blame for this on anything the Jets did.

I have no connection to her logic whatsoever. I'm not saying the Jets were out to get the Pats or it was a witch hunt. Fact is Mangini would have to be a moron to let the other team tape during the game. My sole comment was that the Jets pointed out the video coach. The Jets, not NFL security. Your problem is you are trying to argue Garb's conclusions with me when I was only pointing out that ONE of your points was incorrect. It was, but Garb can only be proved right by proof that all the teams do this. Still doesn't make her delusional. Just a Pats fan. Isn't that bad enough?

[SeniorFlaJet]

Instead of attacking Senior, why don't go read your buddy Garb's comments on 9/11 or is she off limits because she's your "bud"?!

You think I don't know that NS. That's why I didn't respond to it.

She know's I didn't mean anything derogatory about 9/11, she just kissing ass.

[JetCane]

You think I don't know that NS. That's why I didn't respond to it.

She know's I didn't mean anything derogatory about 9/11, she just kissing ass.

I went through the high horse woman's posts and didnt see anything about 9/11. What did she say (other than making it out that it was only a New York issue- was that it or was there more?)

[Scott Dierking]

Heck, Bobby Valentine was suspended 2 games for donning a mustache and sunglasses in the dugout after he had been thrown out of a game.

this offense is on a much larger scale.

[SeniorFlaJet]

I went through the high horse woman's posts and didnt see anything about 9/11. What did she say (other than making it out that it was only a New York issue- was that it or was there more?)

I don't know. I was referring to my post and her response. NS mentioned it.

BTW. Mentioning her in relation to a horse is an insult to all horses.

[#90]

I'll start.........

I say Bellidick should be suspnded for 6 games and that they should lose their first round and second round draft picks. Thoughts......

[Alk]

Heck, Bobby Valentine was suspended 2 games for donning a mustache and sunglasses in the dugout after he had been thrown out of a game.

this offense is on a much larger scale.

Yeah and 2 games in MLB is the equivalent of 5 minutes in the NFL. I'll take that punishment.

[shawn306]

30 days of ecurb.

[SouthernJet]

it wont happen,, but a forfeit

who knows how game changes if NE doesnt score tons of points by knowing our def calls..

the point is they took the fairness out of game and the 'any given sunday' out of the game..

[Alk]

it wont happen,, but a forfeit

who knows how game changes if NE doesnt score tons of points by knowing our def calls..

the point is they took the fairness out of game and the 'any given sunday' out of the game..

This just baffles me. How does a forfeit help the NFL? They take one win from us. We go on to win the division anyway but at least you Jets fans got a win right. I'll take this punishment in a heartbeat.

[RSJ]

- 4-10 game suspension for Beli the easiest will be if he goves up other names. 4 games for anyone he implicates and a year for Kraft if he is involved.

- a first round pick

- 5 million fine which will count against next years cap.

[Lady Jet]

This just baffles me. How does a forfeit help the NFL? They take one win from us. We go on to win the division anyway but at least you Jets fans got a win right. I'll take this punishment in a heartbeat.

I'm pretty sure they took away the camera, Alk.

Just sayin'