Official JN Schottenheimer Discussion Thread

[dbatesman]

I dont know how much stock anyone puts in those numbers. In my own analysis the bust rate in the top 10 over a 10 year period was about 53%. The bust % in the rest of round 1 is something like 72% busts (made worse by the fact that the good ones were all picked at 11). Basically nobody came out of 2 except Brees. I believe the guys that hit the college starts/completion % criteria have included guys like John Beck, Kevin Kolb, Matt Leinart and Vince Young. I believe it said Aaron Rodgers would suck while Tim Tebow would be awesome (and myabe he will). Im positive the FO guys used to go wild on how Matt Ryan would be so bad in the pros. Can it help you eliminate some guys? Maybe it can, but I think no matter what its just more or less a 50/50 proposition. I think in Sanchez' case his completion percentage in his one year was way high for their metric evaluation and at that time its just deciding if the player is mature enough to handle the NFL (which is really what that number of starts stat more or less measures in my opinion). The Jets thought he was. I guess we will see if they are right or wrong these next three weeks because his career will blow up if they finish 9-7 again.

I understand that Lewin's a blunt instrument, but the numbers are so strongly correlative as a whole that it seems irresponsible to throw them out, particularly if you're trading up to pick a guy whose physical skills aren't overwhelming.

[gsnts725]

This was probably posted awhile ago but I just found this hilarious after the last 2 horrid losses we've had.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2010/11/20/2010-11-20_jets_coordinator_brian_schottenheimer_is_considered_one_of_the_nfls_top_young_of.html?r=sports

Jets coordinator Brian Schottenheimer is considered one of the NFL's top young offensive minds

By Manish Mehta

DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

The fickle fringe takes turns slapping labels on Brian Schottenheimer.

To them, the Jets offensive coordinator vacillates between competent and clueless, proficient and pinhead, Mensa and moron.

"If we win, he's a genius," running backs coach Anthony Lynn said with a laugh. "If we lose, he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about." (He never knows what he's talking about.)

Schottenheimer, of course, is regarded by general managers around the league as one of the game's sharpest young offensive minds. He was the favorite to land the Bills head coaching job last offseason before he took himself out of the running.

"He's ready to lead a team," said one AFC executive. "He's as creative as they come." (O RLY?! Is running the ball 64% of the time on 1st down creative to you? I guess so)

The 37-year-old Schottenheimer has learned to absorb all the criticism in the past five seasons with the Jets. He was ripped for not taking enough shots downfield in the season-opening loss to the Ravens. He was questioned for throwing too much in the home shutout loss to the Packers last month.

"I call a lot of plays, quite honestly, that really are bad, but the players make it work," Schottenheimer admitted. "I call a lot of plays that are really good, but maybe we get the perfect defense and something bad happens."

He took plenty of heat heading into the bye week despite having the third-highest scoring offense in the league at the time (26.5 points per game). The Jets, who are 13th in scoring (23.1 ppg), have the fourth-best rushing attack in the NFL.

"One of the things I'm most proud of is that I've held pretty strong in a tough market," Schottenheimer said. "You're not going to please everybody. So, I just stay true to myself."

That's good enough for Rex Ryan, who knew, within the first five minutes of meeting Schottenheimer, that he was going to retain him on his staff.

"I know without any hesitation whatsoever that Brian's going to have our guys prepared," Ryan said. "That's why I can sleep at night." (I bet you can't sleep now Rex lolol)

The most difficult part of Schottenheimer's job is developing personnel groupings each week. The process begins Mondays around 2:30 p.m. when he analyzes the upcoming opponent, breaking down formations and blitz tendencies to formulate the most ideal personnel packages for that game.

The Jets' plethora of talent at the skill positions has complicated the process this season.

Schottenheimer's two-digit labeling system identifies the number of running backs and tight ends on each play. For example, "21" means two running backs and one tight end. Schottenheimer then adds a wide receiver's name, college or school mascot to the "tag" to indicate which wideouts will be in the play. Earlier this season, the "21 Pirate" package was used for Santonio Holmes, whose high school mascot was a Pirate. Schottenheimer adds 4-6 new tags to the base personnel every week.

[gsnts725]

Postgame quote from Rex

On his concern about the direction of the play calling…

The fact that we haven’t scored a touchdown two weeks in a row, the play calling is what it is, but we’ll take a hard look at what we’re doing. We have all the confidence in the world in our offensive coaches and our defensive coaches, so with the people we have in place, I think we’ll get it done.

**** my life

[JerryK]

He calls runs...we get stuffed. (We have no OL)

He calls passes...drop or miss. (We have no OL)

I'm not ready to blame him until the players execute 5 plays in a row.

But I'm also not ready to blame the players until they put an OL out there that compares to what we had with Faneca on the field.

[Smashmouth]

Why can't you fire a coordinator during the season?

Parcells took the play calling duties away from Dan Henning three games into the 1998 season and gave them to Charlie Weis and the offense turned around.

"The Jets lead the league in rush plays on first down?" Really Ian Eagle? I hadn't noticed that!

The problem is that it's always the same friggin'run play to boot. Schotty is a braindead moron who only has a job because of his last name.

Didnt you and JIF laugh at me when I called for sh*ttys head mid season stating we had Callahan ready to take the reigns ? Its too late not Klecko and the Jack asses simply do not have the BALLS to make this kind of move, no way no how.

[AFJF]

As much as it kills me to do it, I'll be starting the Steelers' defense in my fantasy league this week

[jack48]

Sorry I saw Sanchez have about 4 picks dropped, OL looked awful, I do not care what OC was calling plays QB was awful

Bottom line: he has been here five years and the offense has been mediocre or worse. The players have changed, but the coach has been the same. That's enough for me.

[shawn306]

In the Jets 4 losses this year.

0 TD's

19 total points in those four games.

Now that is bad but when you consider the fact that in three of the games all at home the Jets D has given up a total of 29 points he has to go.

Let Cavanaugh call the plays.

Was there any, I mean any kind of help they could have given Hunter yesterday when he went in for Woody ? A running back to chip ? A TE ?

I mean seriously enough already.

[Jet27]

The same OC has been in this system for a number of years, and the same quirks, problems existed back then. Designing the plays is one this, game sense, preparation, strategy is something else. This offense has lost its identity. And Mark looks lost, the wide receivers make one catch, drop 5 others..this is nonsense.

[JiFtheOracle]

Didnt you and JIF laugh at me when I called for sh*ttys head mid season stating we had Callahan ready to take the reigns ? Its too late not Klecko and the Jest simply do not have the BALLS to make this kind of move, no way no how.

I never laughed at you because I think B Schitty is horrible at his job. I just dont think firing him does any good...still dont.

I would however like to see Rex take play calling away from him and give it to Callahan. I think that actually sends a better message than firing him.

[Klecko73isGod]

Didnt you and JIF laugh at me when I called for sh*ttys head mid season stating we had Callahan ready to take the reigns ? Its too late not Klecko and the Jest simply do not have the BALLS to make this kind of move, no way no how.

No. That wasn't me.

And calling your own team the "Jest" makes you an a$$.

[Klecko73isGod]

I never laughed at you because I think B Schitty is horrible at his job. I just dont think firing him does any good...still dont.

I would however like to see Rex take play calling away from him and give it to Callahan. I think that actually sends a better message than firing him.

What do the Jets possibly gain from keeping him around?

Cut the ****er loose now.

[rowonejetfan]

I truly expected Brunell to be out there yesterday, heck I rather see Brunell daughter's out there then Sanchez yesterday. Took three trains there, three trains home and sat in the rain for three hours for this crap!

[Irish Jet]

Jets gameplan yesterday = Operation Mindfuck

[fastmover]

Jets gameplan yesterday = Operation Dumbfuck

Fixed for ya!!!

Semper Fi

[SenorGato]

Didnt you and JIF laugh at me when I called for sh*ttys head mid season stating we had Callahan ready to take the reigns ? Its too late not Klecko and the Jest simply do not have the BALLS to make this kind of move, no way no how.

Don't have the balls or don't have the lack of brains required?

It's not a bad thing for the Jets to not react as their fan base would like to. The fanbase is a very dramatic, lively bunch, and that's charming and all, but it does no good to anyone probably 99% of the time.

[Bugg]

In the Jets 4 losses this year.

0 TD's

19 total points in those four games.Now that is bad but when you consider the fact that in three of the games all at home the Jets D has given up a total of 29 points he has to go.

Let Cavanaugh call the plays.

Was there any, I mean any kind of help they could have given Hunter yesterday when he went in for Woody ? A running back to chip ? A TE ?

I mean seriously enough already.

This is really damning. It's unacceptable. There's hints in today's papers that the Jets' defense is a little pissed off about getting yelled at. Now the Ravens and Packers are good defenses, but the Pats and Fins' defenses are ordinary.

[Smashmouth]

No. That wasn't me.

And calling your own team the "Jest" makes you an a$$.

that was an honest typo Ill fix it

[Smashmouth]

Its all fixed now kleck

[Bleedin Green]

You-know-who is the only person who thinks Schottenheimer should stick around, but I'm with him in waiting for a compelling argument that the OC is responsible for how ungodly terrible Sanchez is.

How about the fact that every QB that has ever played under Schotty as OC has played significantly worse while playing for him than for a different OC? Hell, both Brees and Rivers have played better without Schotty as their QB coach than with him. Of course, that doesn't mean Sanchez will be any good without Schotty, but history tells us he has 0% chance of being good with him.

[ZachEY]

How about the fact that every QB that has ever played under Schotty as OC has played significantly worse while playing for him than for a different OC? Hell, both Brees and Rivers have played better without Schotty as their QB coach than with him. Of course, that doesn't mean Sanchez will be any good without Schotty, but history tells us he has 0% chance of being good with him.

I hope your right.

[Aten]

I think in Sanchez' case his completion percentage in his one year was way high for their metric evaluation and at that time its just deciding if the player is mature enough to handle the NFL (which is really what that number of starts stat more or less measures in my opinion).

This is bizarrely and completely wrong. The reason number of starts is important is that it ensures that your scouting is based upon a sufficiently large sample that you can be confident in its conclusions. The fact that you think you can (or, more accurately, the fact that Tannenbaum and Rex thought they could) just substitute a snap judgment on a dude's maturity or whatever amorphous limpwristed claptrap you prefer to numbers and facts as a basis for evaluation is the whole reason you and everybody else who thought they could talk their way out of Lewin on Sanchez is eating sh*t right now.

[GangisGreen]

I hate Shotty as much as the rest of you, and even though he absoloutly deserves to be fired I just do not see it happening. Honestly I see him and Rex throwing Sanchez under the bus before Shotty is blamed for this.

[SMC]

It's always easier to fire an OC than a young QB the team has invested millions in, especially when the OC has strikes against him with previously failure.

Rex has to stop acting like a DC and start acting like a HC and take control of this offense.

[Klecko73isGod]

I hope your right.

We ain't getting rid of Sanchez for at least two years. I just hope we get the opportunity to find out.

I don't care what moves the Jets make in the offseason just as long as they replace Schotty. If they don't I'm sure I see a point in even watching them next year.

[SMC]

This is bizarrely and completely wrong. The reason number of starts is important is that it ensures that your scouting is based upon a sufficiently large sample that you can be confident in its conclusions. The fact that you think you can (or, more accurately, the fact that Tannenbaum and Rex thought they could) just substitute a snap judgment on a dude's maturity or whatever amorphous limpwristed claptrap you prefer to numbers and facts as a basis for evaluation is the whole reason you and everybody else who thought they could talk their way out of Lewin on Sanchez is eating sh*t right now.

That's such an opportunistic argument.

When Sanchez was playing well you and everybody else killing him was eating sh*t. In fact, you were nowhere to be seen on these boards. You crow now and act like you've always been right, but then when things go against your argument you disappear.

So at what point is either side going to claim victory? Or is this a war of attrition?

[Bleedin Green]

I hope your right.

Figure it this way, even if Sanchez is really doomed to suck for the entirety of his career no matter what the Jets do, are you really interested in the Jets keeping this dipsh*t OC around long enough to get his hands on the next Jets QB too? I'm not convinced Sanchez is destined for greatness, but I do know that all of the evidence shows that no QB has ever found consistent success in this offense. I'd rather he get the opportunity to be put into a position where success is at least a remote possibility.

[Klecko73isGod]

Figure it this way, even if Sanchez is really doomed to suck for the entirety of his career no matter what the Jets do, are you really interested in the Jets keeping this dipsh*t OC around long enough to get his hands on the next Jets QB too? I'm not convinced Sanchez is destined for greatness, but I do know that all of the evidence shows that no QB has ever found consistent success in this offense. I'd rather he get the opportunity to be put into a position where success is at least a remote possibility.

The only stretch of success the Jets offense has had under Schotty was for about five games in '08 when Favre was essentially changing every play in the huddle and essentially doing whatever the **** he wanted to do.

[jgb]

thanks for squandering our window of opportunity rex and schott. you will go down in jets lore as herm v2.0.

[Aten]

That's such an opportunistic argument.

When Sanchez was playing well you and everybody else killing him was eating sh*t. In fact, you were nowhere to be seen on these boards.

It's actually the past month or so while he's been playing like garbage that I haven't been around much, but let's not let facts get in the way of dumb indignation. You know perfectly well both that I never backed off my stance on Sanchez and that it would have been senseless to belabor the point while we were winning, e.g., http://www.jetnation.com/forums/index.php?/topic/92278-mark-sanchez/page__st__40

[SMC]

It's actually the past month or so while he's been playing like garbage that I haven't been around much, but let's not let facts get in the way of dumb indignation. You know perfectly well both that I never backed off my stance on Sanchez and that it would have been senseless to belabor the point while we were winning, e.g., http://www.jetnation.com/forums/index.php?/topic/92278-mark-sanchez/page__st__40

Of course you're not backing off your stance. I never expected you to.

That's why I said to CTM that it's not a matter of you "giving up" on Sanchez, you hated him from the begining. Of course it would be senseless for you to belabor the point while the Jets were winning. That's why I say it's an opportunistic argument for you. You were just waiting for them to lose so you could reassert your argument.

[visajets]

The JETS havent scored a TD in 9 quarters of football.

[jgb]

Of course you're not backing off your stance. I never expected you to.

That's why I said to CTM that it's not a matter of you "giving up" on Sanchez, you hated him from the begining. Of course it would be senseless for you to belabor the point while the Jets were winning. That's why I say it's an opportunistic argument for you. You were just waiting for them to lose so you could reassert your argument.

infighting amongst jets fans? it must be december!

[ZachEY]

Figure it this way, even if Sanchez is really doomed to suck for the entirety of his career no matter what the Jets do, are you really interested in the Jets keeping this dipsh*t OC around long enough to get his hands on the next Jets QB too? I'm not convinced Sanchez is destined for greatness, but I do know that all of the evidence shows that no QB has ever found consistent success in this offense. I'd rather he get the opportunity to be put into a position where success is at least a remote possibility.

I agree. Definitely kill Shotty. But, at least acknowledge that to some, perhaps small, extent it is scapegoating for Sanchez.

[Bleedin Green]

I agree. Definitely kill Shotty. But, at least acknowledge that to some, perhaps small, extent it is scapegoating for Sanchez.

It is, but does it really matter? Good or bad, Sanchez is probably the Jets QB for at least two more years. Meanwhile, 5 years in Schotty still sucks beyond belief and has had dozens of players scapegoated for his benefit. The guy deserved to be fired before Mark Sanchez was even a New York Jet, so I won't feel even slightly bad if Sanchez is what ultimately gets him fired.

Consider it like the Pennington situation. The guy got dumped for only one reason, Brett Favre, but he should've been gone long before that, so who cares? I celebrate Favre for ridding us of that albatross and I'll do the same for Sanchez if he rids us of this douche-nozzle. The bottom line is this guy deserves to be fired, and it could be for shoplifting a pack of gum for all I give a sh*t, just as long as it happens.