Do these critics still wanna say Sanchez "hasn't improved"?

[SMC]

Its tough, we're obvioulsy not in his head...but it looks like he goes through them to fast. And goes to the check down before the play develops.

Its either he looks for a split second and moves on or he's not even giving them a look. Impossible for you and I to figure out. Either way, the result is, he's getting to the check down too fast.

Sanchez still hasn't mastered the lyrics of the old country song, The Gambler: "You got to know when to hold 'em. Know when to fold 'em. Know when to walk away and know when to run."

[CTM]

I'm pretty sure Dalton's completion percentage is going to drop considerably after he plays the Ravens.

k.. i'm pretty sure he's a rookie and not a third year player

[CTM]

Its tough, we're obvioulsy not in his head...but it looks like he goes through them to fast. And goes to the check down before the play develops.

Its either he looks for a split second and moves on or he's not even giving them a look. Impossible for you and I to figure out. Either way, the result is, he's getting to the check down too fast.

I think he's getting happy feet a bit.. but also, comp % and not turning it over is being drilled into his head by rex I'm pretty sure

[dbatesman]

I'm pretty sure Dalton's completion percentage is going to drop considerably after he plays the Ravens.

Yeah, but that game won't count.

[GimmeShelter]

Sanchez has looked better but still has a ways to go in my opinion. I think Schotty and the OL issues early on have him looking to get rid of the ball too quickly without scanning the field.

One incident last night he went to check down and missed the pass with a wide open Keller (I think) waving his arms up in disgust in the endzone.

As for his QB rating or any of his stats in 2011 for that matter, he faced one good defense in Baltimore. Every other secondary he should have destroyed. A lot of his erratic play has to do with the poor OL play early on but his numbers have come against poor secondaries.

[PatriotReign37]

Lets take a look at Sanchez outside of the Baltimore game. Yes, you don't have to remind me; I understand that It's ridiculous to eliminate a game from the stat sheet, just to show improved statistics, but I'm trying to look at our quarterback performance in an objective manner. By looking at the complete picture.

Sanchez had no chance against the Ravens, not because of the Ravens as a team defense, but because of the overall situation in regards to the offense. No quarterback stood a chance that night. Not even Joe Montana himself. NY couldn't establish the run due to the fact that we were without one of the leagues best centers. Not only were we without our starting center in Nick Mangold, but Sanchez was under center behind a 3rd string backup, a rookie at that. A rookie who wasn't even with the Jets during offseason workouts. The situation became so ugly, where it came to the point, where our head coach had to replace the rookie with an awful offensive lineman in Ducasse who's yet to work out for us. Our LG in Slauson then became our center, and a player who wasn't ready in Ducasse then became our LG. It wasn't long before Rex had to switch it up once again, moving Slauson back to LG and Baxter in replace of Ducasse at center. All because of disastrous offensive line play.

Moving forward, Is it at least safe to say, that our quarterback had no chance under those circumstances? Could any quarterback have performed under those circumstances? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was an unsuccessful situation.

With all that said, outside of the Baltimore game; Sanchez has gone 74/122, 62.4%, 918 yards, 7 TD's-4 INT's, 2 rushing TD's and a quarterback rating of 95.2.

This is with two WR's being gone of years past in Edwards and Cotchery, while being replaced by three WR's who weren't here last year in Burress, Mason and Kerley. A harsh decline in offensive line play and run game performance from previous years... but our quarterback has still improved during his expected breakout season of year number three.

For Jet fans to consistently say, on a daily basis, that our offensive coordinator is stunting the growth and development of our quarterback (even though he's improved during all 3 years under Shotty Jr) and or Sanchez hasn't improved this season has led me to believe that these online critics wouldn't notice improvements, even if a quarterback was developing right before their eyes.

Sorry for the long winded post, but I just have alot to say in regards to our quarterback position and Sanchez himself.

[Il Mostro]

Sanchez still sh*ts his serape for no good reason. He remains more of a liability than an asset.

[JustInFudge]

Sanchez has looked better but still has a ways to go in my opinion. I think Schotty and the OL issues early on have him looking to get rid of the ball too quickly without scanning the field.

One incident last night he went to check down and missed the pass with a wide open Keller (I think) waving his arms up in disgust in the endzone.

As for his QB rating or any of his stats in 2011 for that matter, he faced one good defense in Baltimore. Every other secondary he should have destroyed. A lot of his erratic play has to do with the poor OL play early on but his numbers have come against poor secondaries.

This is well said. As much as I truly believe the OL deficiencies have played a factor, you'd hope that Sanchez could do more to overcome those factors. At the very least, not turn the ball over to the tune of the 3 defensive TD's. I dont care how bad your OL is or who you are missing, that is unacceptable.

He's definitely improved in some areas and he's got a long way to go in others. Anyone who thought he was going to be Drew Brees this season was kidding themselves. The bottom line is, you'd like to seen more progress. That cant be argued.

Hopefully, with a great defensive game vs. the Chargers and just enough offense they can into the bye at 4-3. Then we just got to pray the offense uses as much time during the bye week as they can to get better...much better.

[#27TheDominator]

Sanchez still hasn't mastered the lyrics of the old country song, The Gambler: "You got to know when to hold 'em. Know when to fold 'em. Know when to walk away and know when to run."

Red light. Yellow light Green light

[SMC]

k.. i'm pretty sure he's a rookie and not a third year player

True, but Sanchez is still performing at Eli level (57 %, 77 QBR his 3rd yr).

[RutgersJetFan]

So how long are the lancemehl and Queens posts going to be on Sanchez? Anyone wanna take bets? I'll set the lines.

lancemehl - 7 paragraphs

Queens - 11 paragraphs.

[CTM]

he's 30th in QBR and 24th DVOA/DYAR.. how is that middle of the pack

and before you complain about the ravens the last two are defense adjusted, and remember he's played the 30th (miami), 26th (NE), 20th (Oak) pass defenses as well, so half his gaems were against the dregs of the league

[Bleedin Green]

he's 30th in QBR and 24th DVOA/DYAR.. how is that middle of the pack

and before you complain about the ravens the last two are defense adjusted, and remember he's played the 30th (miami), 26th (NE), 20th (Oak) pass defenses as well, so half his gaems were against the dregs of the league

Well if you break it up into quarters, that would mean the best are ranked 1-8, the middle are ranked 9 - 16 and 17 - 24 and the worst are ranked 25 - 32. See, 24 is in the second middle group, so he's obviously middle... HA! IN YOUR FACE!!

[WWWWombat]

http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?pos=QB

[lancemehl]

The following is a fact, as sure as 2+2=4. It doesn't matter what my name is and what board this is. The following is a fact:

It may be difficult to follow, but it is still a fact:

Take the "no Mangold" stinker out and replace it with his playoff average from last year, that's 3 games on the road in the big time----Surely that will suffice as a replacement to get an accurate sample BECAUSE I'LL TELL YOU- IF you need to rely on that one abortion of a statline to fudge the numbers of a six game sample size, then the verdict is in. Read that again.....and when you realize how true it is, let's have fun ....

and look at Sucky Sanchez' stats when we take the wonder-bra off, so to speak:

Here's what we got: 93.9 QB rating 62.8% comp and even with the ravens game, with the playoffs he's got 14TDs vs. 6 INTs This is actually fun. lol The more one looks the more you see how good the kid is, EVEN on paper, even with the training wheels the first two years, no running game......he's the goods. simply put.

lol How about 9TDs 3INTs in 6 road playoff games in his first two years. lol The kid's Canton material when you strip away the ropaganda actually. haha These are facts, my brothers, FACTS Step up Sombreros Don't believe the hype. How about completing 60% of his passes in 6 road playoffs games in his first two years. Find me a qb that has that resume. haha I'll see what more I could dig up on el guapo later on.

Adios, Sombreros!

[bitonti]

The reality is, even if Sanchez is improving...its not really by a great deal...if any at all. That is reality.

I've been tough on Mark but the improvement is there. it's the slightest glimmer of hope but it is there.

http://www.nfl.com/player/marksanchez/79858/profile

he's got a higher completion percentage, more rate of TD, less INT, higher QB rating, all while being sacked at a higher rate.

on the down side he's losing fumbles at a higher rate

granted that's only thru 6 games vs his previous 32 regular season games but he's doing better.

[HessStation]

I've been tough on Mark but the improvement is there. it's the slightest glimmer of hope but it is there.

http://www.nfl.com/p...z/79858/profile

he's got a higher completion percentage, more rate of TD, less INT, higher QB rating, all while being sacked at a higher rate.

on the down side he's losing fumbles at a higher rate

granted that's only thru 6 games vs his previous 32 regular season games but he's doing better.

no offense but you defending Sanchez scares the living crap out of me. not saying you can't judge players or anything but moreso about some kinda karma voodoo thing you got going.

[jetsjetsjetss]

i cant believe no one said anything about the picture i posted.... btw its carson palmer if u didnt know

but idk he is improving but the problem is improving doesnt win games this sunday or last. Maybe in 4 years, but still we cant let our current opportunity go to waste.

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

I guess he's improving. At times it looks like he knew it all and made all the throws. But at other times he looks like a rookie again. Throwing these wild a$$ medium passes completely missing his receiver and still not seeing the whole field. It looks like his vision hasn't gotten any better and that worries me the most.

[JetsFanFromQueens]

Good post, strong points. Not to mention that he's a proven winner with the pressure on come postseason play. This kid played his heart out during the playoffs for us, with the world of NY on his shoulders. Palmer, Rivers, Manning, Brady, Roethlisberger... He backed down from none of these guys. Even out played most of them.

Star in the making. Developing franchise QB.

[CTM]

The following is a fact, as sure as 2+2=4. It doesn't matter what my name is and what board this is. The following is a fact:

It may be difficult to follow, but it is still a fact:

Take the "no Mangold" stinker out and replace it with his playoff average from last year, that's 3 games on the road in the big time----Surely that will suffice as a replacement to get an accurate sample BECAUSE I'LL TELL YOU- IF you need to rely on that one abortion of a statline to fudge the numbers of a six game sample size, then the verdict is in. Read that again.....and when you realize how true it is, let's have fun ....

and look at Sucky Sanchez' stats when we take the wonder-bra off, so to speak:

Here's what we got: 93.9 QB rating 62.8% comp and even with the ravens game, with the playoffs he's got 14TDs vs. 6 INTs This is actually fun. lol The more one looks the more you see how good the kid is, EVEN on paper, even with the training wheels the first two years, no running game......he's the goods. simply put.

lol How about 9TDs 3INTs in 6 road playoff games in his first two years. lol The kid's Canton material when you strip away the ropaganda actually. haha These are facts, my brothers, FACTS Step up Sombreros Don't believe the hype. How about completing 60% of his passes in 6 road playoffs games in his first two years. Find me a qb that has that resume. haha I'll see what more I could dig up on el guapo later on.

Adios, Sombreros!

can i take his 6 worst games and do the same?

[T0mShane]

Good post, strong points. Not to mention that he's a proven winner with the pressure on come postseason play. This kid played his heart out during the playoffs for us, with the world of NY on his shoulders. Palmer, Rivers, Manning, Brady, Roethlisberger... He backed down from none of these guys. Even out played most of them.

Star in the making. Developing franchise QB.

Postseason: Six games. Scored 20+ points twice.

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

can i take his 6 worst games and do the same?

Oh man. I don't think I wanna know. He's had some major stickers.

[JoeWillie]

The bottom line is that the sides have been drawn with Sanchez.

I, myself, am pro-Sanchez, and while I'll admit I expected a more consistent performer than what we're getting so far this season (and he certainly must take some responsibility for that), he has still shown improvement even in a year where there are other factors detrimentally affecting the performance of the offense, specifically a non-existent running game, the inability to pass protect, and what appears to be, at the very least, some bad chemistry with some new receivers to this point.

Listen, is he the best QB in the league? Of course not.

Are there guys who've been drafted over the past 3 years who have been more productive statistically? Sure, a few.

But the question is NOT whether he can throw for 30TD's, or throw for 60%, or have a QB rating of 100 ... the real question is whether or not the Jets CAN win Super Bowl(s) with him playing QB and I think the answer is "Yes". And why wouldn't anyone believe that? He's come 1 game away in his first two years.

People get too hung up on numbers. I've said many times before on this board that evaluating QB's by statistics alone is a losing proposition. Marino, Fouts, Tarkenton, Kelly, Moon, Jurgensen, Bledsoe, Testaverde, ... all incredibly fabulous statistical players who, in retrospect, are not even slotted at the top of their positions historically now because they didn't win the big one. Hell, even Elway was not even thought of on a tier with Marino while they were both in the primes of their careers. It really wasn't until the end of his career, when the Broncos hooked him up with Terrell Davis and he was able to win back to back Super Bowls that people elevated him above Marino on the list of great QB's.

Whether you like Sanchez or don't like him, whether you think he's a good QB or a bad QB, or whether you think the Jets CAN win with him or CAN'T win with him, one thing is for sure. What he has done in his first two years as a pro is almost unprecedented when you think about his age AND his limited experience in college. I know he's playing on a good team, but there have been many young QBs with more talent than Sanchez who have come into good team situations and not had half the success Sanchez has. As I've said before, this kid is "a baby" as NFL QB's go and to come into this league and lead his team to 4 road playoff wins and one game within the Super Bowl each of his first two years is pretty damn special.

Most people on this board have publicly expressed their opinions, very passionately about where they stand, and at this point, since most people don't like to admit when they're wrong (myself included), they will "ride out" their positions and take the opportunity to say "I told you so" with every situation that supports their opinion.

If the Jets go 3-0 in their next 3, and Sanchez throws for 8 TD's and 2 picks, the supporters will say "I told ya", and the critics will complain about the 2 picks or the fact he only threw for 53%.

If the Jets go 0-3, and Sanchez throws 4 picks, the critics will say " I told ya" and the supporters will complain about Schotty, or the lack of a running game, or the O-line.

But football is the ultimate "team game" and contrary to popular belief, a quarterback does not win by himself.

However, I also understand the reality and that is that a QB is not "validated" until his team wins, and so unfortunately, until the day the Jets win a Super Bowl with Sanchez, we'll be hearing the same passionate arguments we've heard from the same people week in and week out.

And even after Sanchez is done playing, and the book has been written, there will STILL be people on both sides of the fence that won't admit they're wrong.

[T0mShane]

The pro-Sanchez people are working really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really hard to present their case.

Meanwhile, the anti-Sanchez/Meh-Sanchez crowd gets to sit back and say, "watch him play."

[GimmeShelter]

The pro-Sanchez people are working really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really hard to present their case.

Meanwhile, the anti-Sanchez/Meh-Sanchez crowd gets to sit back and say, "watch him play."

Absolutely. I am of the opinion he will end up a 8-15th ranked QB with the potential to be better but anytime you want to throw out a game against the only good defense he has faced this year PLUS add in his play-off success, your argument is weak and flawed. Let the guy play and we will see what he is or is not.

If he was the QB anywhere else in the league right now would anyone be talking about his production THIS season as a sign he has put it all together? No they would not. In fact more opposing fan bases that thought he was on his way last season now are of the opinion that he is a horrible QB.

[Smashmouth]

I agree with most of your points, including that Sanchez has improved. The fact he's played in 2 championship Games in 2 years leads most of us to forget that he's still "a baby" as NFL QB's go. While I'll admit he needs to get better in certain areas, mostly in his consistency, I still think there is significant upside to his abilities and alot of room for growth.

Where we may disagree a bit is whether or not Sanchez has improved BECAUSE of Schottenheimer or IN SPITE of Schottenheimer.

My sense is the latter, as I am not a big fan of the OC.

It would be interesting to see Sanchez operating under someone who has a reputation as a great QB developer, say a Norv Turner, or a Sean Payton.

Agree . I would love to see Sanchez get a chance to work under another OC before the posters at JI lynch him. When it comes to the Baltimore game I dont think the kid had a chance in hell to do anything but maybe throw the ball out of bounds, our O-Line and the play calling gave him no chance at all and our entire offense was overwhelmed.

[Boozer76]

And even after Sanchez is done playing, and the book has been written, there will STILL be people on both sides of the fence that won't admit they're wrong.

Haven't you written enough books??

EDIT-Damn I thought I saw that JFFQ wrote that, not JoeWillie. Sorry Joe, wasn't meant for you. I like your books.

[JustInFudge]

The kid's Canton material when you strip away the ropaganda actually. haha These are facts, my brothers, FACTS

With all due respect, how do you expect anyone to take you serious with comments like that?

[Jetsfan80]

Well according to FO, Sanchez is now 24th in DYAR and 26th in DVOA. The numbers suggest he hasn't improved. Schottenheimer will be the fall guy this year. We'll see if a change in offensive philosophy can get the most out of Sanchez.

[JustInFudge]

Well according to FO, Sanchez is now 24th in DYAR and 26th in DVOA. The numbers suggest he hasn't improved. Schottenheimer will be the fall guy this year. We'll see if a change in offensive philosophy can get the most out of Sanchez.

Yeah but if you take away his 3 worst games this season and replace them with his 3 best games over the last 2 years, he' Canton material. Fact.

[JerryK]

People want their QB to be the hero. They want 'their guy' to make them all tickly-in-the-tummy. It makes for great news and conversation, but It's 100% bullsh***t.

QB performance = OL. Mangold's injury started the slide. If he's back for good, so is Sanchez.

[Jetsfan80]

QB performance = OL. Mangold's injury started the slide. If he's back for good, so is Sanchez.

Personally I think everybody has sucked. Schottenheimer has been awful at running an offense for 6 years and nothing about him has suddenly changed. Wayne Hunter has been one of the worst RT's in the game. Greene isn't at all the bruiser we'd hoped he'd be and LT is only good in space. Plaxico looks like he'd prefer to be in jail. And Sanchez has shown no ability to rise above his circumstances like a top-5 pick should, leading to a bevy of excuses.

We all knew the offense would probably never achieve greatness. But few could have thought it would be absolute dogsh**.

[JerryK]

Hunter and Plax are weak, I'll agree with that. Plaxico can't help it though. Physical skills can make you good, but physical+brain make you great. For that reason he can never be great.

I bet you could fart in Plaxico's living room and he'd answer the doorbell.

[JustInFudge]

Hunter man handled Wake on MNF. He looked like the guy we saw last season. I'm hoping that type of play continues.