Mo’s Deal set to Help fit Fitz?

[AFJF]

4 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Look, the Jets hire professionals to do this kind of work and have lawyers and accountants. They can figure this stuff out and work with and around the cap and know things we don't. I mean if you're a fan and you say the Jets can't do it all it means is that you don't want them to do it. 

Possible, but not everyone follows the game that closely and may not understand contracts can be worked and money can be moved around to create more room.  I've actually seen fans say there's no way the Jets can afford Mo and Fitz.

[CrazyCarl40]

40 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Well as of now it looks like the Jets are able to sign Lee and Fitz at an 8mil cap hit.  Which equates to the offer that's been on the table for months (3 years 24mil).  

Best guess is Macc is telling the Fitz camp to sign by camp or the deal is off.  The Jets will have to find some other vet option to backup Geno and he'll need time to learn.

Have you seen the names of vets still out there? There isn't one worth signing at this point. Certainly none that is have any confidence in. Except Fitz. 

[Mike135]

10 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Have you seen the names of vets still out there? There isn't one worth signing at this point. Certainly none that is have any confidence in. Except Fitz. 

Agreed, but they have to get someone who has had an NFL snap to fill in if Geno goes down.  By all accounts Petty and Hack aren't close to ready.

So the longer we wait around for Fitz, the harder it gets to prepare a vet to fill in if needed.

This has to be decided when camp starts.

Edit:  Basically Fitz is picking up this season where he left off last season...  hurting this team.

[Ex-Rex]

4 hours ago, JetNation said:

When Fitzpatrick eventually does return, it may stand to mark the last Jets fans have seen of Geno Smith in Green and White.  With just one season remaining on  his rookie contract and a pair of signal callers (Bryce Petty and Christian Hackenberg) drafted by Mike Maccagnan since his arrival, Smith will likely test free agency in 2017.

Geno is a goner in 17 for sure. I wouldn't cut him this season though, his contract is light and his value could be great if Fitz stumbles or gets injured. One aspect of Fitz game that is disturbing is that he refuses to slide or get down and not take a hit. That's how he hurt his thumb last season and Geno cost us a win with a dumb sack. ( I know, I beat that one like a dead horse, but it sticks in my craw).

[Mike135]

Hope 5 or 6 weeks from now there's a thread titled, "Fitz can't find a job....bring him back on the cheap?"

[Warfish]

5 hours ago, JetNation said:

Fitzpatrick’s return has been endorsed not only by Maccagnan and head coach Todd Bowles, but many of the biggest names in the Jets locker room.  When pressed on the issue of Fitzpatrick’s return back in May, wide receiver Eric Decker weighed in, saying  “We have the pieces right now to win, I just think we need to plug [Fitzpatrick] in, we need to move forward. Again, the organization has to make the best decision for them long term, but as players, we know what’s going to give us success and that’s why we want him back.”

Well, so much for any debate.

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, Powpow said:

12 mil first year. If the kiddies aren't ready in 2017 Fitz starts in year 2. Do you think it's fair to pay him 6 mil. This is what makes zero sense. There has to be another contract drawn up by Mac with incentives for year 2.  Mac needs Fitz as insurance or else it's looking in the junk yard again for spare parts. The light hasn't turned on for Petty. Hack is a 2-3 year project. Would be great to let him sit ala Aaron Rodgers.  

There already are incentives in this contract Fitz has turned down for months. If he starts in year 2 it's far more likely he makes $12M not $6M. 3/$24M is the minimum not the maximum. From everything that has been discussed publicly, the rationale was for him to collect $12M per year he's starting and $6M per year he's backing up. As a base contract, it is presumed that will be one year starting (just 2016) followed by 2 years backing up. But with incentives this current offer can elevate to 3 yrs / $36M. Until I see otherwise, knowing this rationale behind the $12M and $6M annual numbers, I still think if he's starting in 2017 he collects $12M in 2017 not $6M (which would be a tragedy in and of itself).

Fitz doesn't want to sign it for 2 reasons. First, because he believes he should be making more than $12M per year that he's starting. Second, because the team then has a $6M/year incentive to bench him in favor of someone else (even including another veteran QB acquisition).

[Lot K Tailgaters]

Fitzpatrick has a great personality and plays with a lot of heart but he is a C+ QB.  I could never justify paying a QB big money when he throws 3 INTs with the season on the line. 

[Rangers9]

38 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

There already are incentives in this contract Fitz has turned down for months. If he starts in year 2 it's far more likely he makes $12M not $6M. 3/$24M is the minimum not the maximum. From everything that has been discussed publicly, the rationale was for him to collect $12M per year he's starting and $6M per year he's backing up. As a base contract, it is presumed that will be one year starting (just 2016) followed by 2 years backing up. But with incentives this current offer can elevate to 3 yrs / $36M. Until I see otherwise, knowing this rationale behind the $12M and $6M annual numbers, I still think if he's starting in 2017 he collects $12M in 2017 not $6M (which would be a tragedy in and of itself).

Fitz doesn't want to sign it for 2 reasons. First, because he believes he should be making more than $12M per year that he's starting. Second, because the team then has a $6M/year incentive to bench him in favor of someone else (even including another veteran QB acquisition).

Please verify the info on the incentives that makes you conclude this. I have seen no leaks on this. You are just guessing. Fitz and his agent have seen these incentives and he's refused to sign it for 6 months. He will sign a one year contract. Most players want multi-year deals including him. And just one more thing. When the Jets leaked this deal they didn't even mention the 2nd and 3rd years. I wonder why? And btw $24 mil is not the minimum. 15 mil is. 

[UpstateJetsGuru]

13 minutes ago, Lot K Tailgaters said:

Fitzpatrick has a great personality and plays with a lot of heart but he is a C+ QB.  I could never justify paying a QB big money when he throws 3 INTs with the season on the line. 

Break down those 3 INT's and it sounds a lot worse than it is. For example, on a play with a strong, advantageous protection formation, do you blame a QB who is focusing downfield and just as he's beginning to throw is crushed by a 330 lb. d-lineman on what was clearly a blown block. QB then makes what could have been a heroic game winning throw to a receiver streaking down the sidelines but he is unable to hang on after a very fortuitous break-up by the defender. Final INT comes on desperation throw with time running out. 3 INT's sounds bad for sure, but like much of the game, it was a team failure. There were also arguably two more TD's that could have been scored had receivers made rather simple catches. Bottom line: it was a team failure across the board, special teams and coaching included. That being said, the quarterback, fair or not, will shoulder much of the blame for a team's failures. The most astute analyzers, however, look not merely at end results, but circumstances and situations that lead up to those end results. That is why I believe Fitz's teammates and head coach still have faith in him.                  

   It's time to get this thing done, on both sides, so we can all focus with at leastsome degree of optimism towards what shapes up to be a very challenging season.

[Flushing Roots]

If Geno goes I will have to change my signature.

Not sure there is anyone else to bust on... which is good.

[Ken Schroy]

5 hours ago, slats said:

If Fitz doesn't like it, he can sign one of his other many offers. 

Very true. I don't see anyone banging down Fitz's door to play QB. I think this guy is a bad combination of delusional and stubborn. If he isn't signed in 10 days for a very reasonable number (not 12mil), move on.

[Snell41]

The question is are the Jets willing to give Fitz a one year deal. So far they have said no even though it makes all of the sense in the world for both parties. If Fitz plays well and Hack isn't ready in 2017 then you can sign him to another one year deal. If Hack is ready the team has no guaranteed money to pay. Fitz is a free agent and can go to another team. If Fitz plays poorly then it's Geno time. As for the 12 mil it's probably negotiable. But if the Jets won't budge and insist on the 2 years at 6 mil each you know the only reason for that is to buy an insurance policy for Mac and Woody. And to pay Fitz non starter wages like they did in 2015. 

They haven't said no, they said no to one year 12m.

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[Rangers9]

Just now, Snell41 said:

They haven't said no, they said no to one year 12m.

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They have said no so far to any deal except the one they offered Fitz 6 months ago. The 3 year 24 mil offer which he so far won't sign. But I hope you're right and they can negotiate off of that Fitz counteroffer. And let's get this thing settled. 

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Well, so much for any debate.

Now if it were only May or Decker was the only player on the team it would be a slam dunk. 

 

 

[Snell41]

They have said no so far to any deal except the one they offered Fitz 6 months ago. The 3 year 24 mil offer which he so far won't sign. But I hope you're right and they can negotiate off of that Fitz counteroffer. And let's get this thing settled. 

Because every deal equaled out to more than the amortized cost to the Jets this year. I believe the hit this year at 3/24 would have been 7-8m against the cap. If he were willing to sign 1yr 7/8 mil I suspect he'd be here. I'd rather they not to be honest, but that's a different debate.

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[Rangers9]

2 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

Because every deal equaled out to more than the amortized cost to the Jets this year. I believe the hit this year at 3/24 would have been 7-8m against the cap. If he were willing to sign 1yr 7/8 mil I suspect he'd be here. I'd rather they not to be honest, but that's a different debate.

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I have no idea on what he'd take. But I think he'd prefer a 1-8 over that 3-24. Maybe they could toss in a few incentives. If he plays well then he could market himself for a starting job and a better salary for 2017. With the Jets or another team. But in my opinion he should get more than 8 mil. 

[YankeeJet22]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

 But in my opinion he should get more than 8 mil. 

Who the fock are you?

[joewilly12]

Lets just make a decision so as fans we can reunite and stop this back and forth banter over the QB situation.

[Tinstar]

Does anyone care if this deal helps the Jets or is it yet another round of Fitz vs Smith bull bleep  ?

[flgreen]

7 hours ago, Powpow said:

Exactly. Fitz made crumbs last year. He's earned the right to be paid decent starting cash. If Fitz and Mac agree to a one year 12 mil contract, it could backfire for Mac. Case scenario: Fitz again plays very well, gets us into playoffs, is now a free agent. Now what? Salary demands will increase over 12 easily.  Contract can be reworked to include various incentives built into year 2-3. Did we make playoffs in 2016. QB rating, games played, if he starts in 2017 etc etc Besides, Fitz is just a good presence to have in this team for numerous reasons. He's a good mentor, a professional and quality insurance.

I basically agree with what your saying, but incentives will  be hard to build into the contract.  Actually I've read, that the incentive that are already built into the contract could make it a 3 year 36 M dollar contract.

 

Here's the problem.  Because Fitz had an outstanding stat year last year, it would be hard finding personal incentives that wouldn't count against the cap this year.  More then likely the incentives built into the proposed contract would be team incentives.  Like winning the Super Bowl.

 

I really think that going with a Clady type deal is the best way to go.   Pay him his 12 M this year with the Jets having the option to pick up his contract, or walk away at 14 M next year.  If he plays well, Jets make the play offs, he probably gets another 14M.  If he stinks it up, Jets can just walk away

[Jetsplayer21]

10 hours ago, Mike135 said:

Me too, but I think it's a given that if Fitz is back, we will be.  Considering Fitz is the definition of mediocre and that I'd guess true market value for Fitz is probably 4.5mil right now.  

I'm sure Fitz fans don't wanna hear that, but if the Jets decided not to sign Fitz, what would be his top offer?  4.5 is probably pretty darn generous.

But yeah, let's pay him 12mil.  Because restructures are like magic!  They don't cost us anything.

It's too bad

 

4 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

They have said no so far to any deal except the one they offered Fitz 6 months ago. The 3 year 24 mil offer which he so far won't sign. But I hope you're right and they can negotiate off of that Fitz counteroffer. And let's get this thing settled. 

Jets will up the offer now I think.. Not much.. If fitz turns that down they will move on.. And he will be trying to find a backup spot somewhere.

[JohnnyLV]

15 hours ago, flgreen said:

Brand new concept.  Restructure contracts 

For Fitz...f*&@k no

[Jet9]

18 hours ago, flgreen said:

Great article Glenn.

 

Fitz has let it leak in the past that he would sign a one year 12 M deal.  The Jets were unable to to absorb the cap hit with Wilkerson under the tag.  if they restructure Fitz's friend Decker's deal, they will have money to do that.

 

IMO we might see Fitz signing in about a week, right before camp, for a one year, 12M contract, with a Jets option for a 14 M second year.  Or something close to that.

 

As far as leaving smith at the curb, as much as I would like to see it happen, don't think so.   The problem is Bryce Petty.  I like the kid, but he had a very disappointing off season.  He just doesn't seem ready for the back up job.  smith will stay, not because they want him, but because they will probably need him as insurance.   

How did Petty have a disappointing off season? They're not allowed to do anything during the off season. What does this mean?

[slats]

The only complaint I've seen about Mo Wilk's deal is that they paid too much. That if the team had gotten a deal done a year or two ago, when they had more leverage, they could've saved a few million. And this is in regard to a five year veteran of the team, a consistently excellent performer and pro bowl player. 

And then we have fans who want the Jets to capitulate to Fitzpatrick's demands in terms of money, the length of the deal, or both, when they hold all the leverage. And this about an 11 year journeyman who had one decent year as a Jet, not excellent, certainly not pro bowl level, just decent. Mike Maccagnan's responsibility is to the benefit of the Jets, not Ryan Fitzpatrick's feelings or desire to bet on himself. Mac wants Fitz for three years, $24M, and Fitz hasn't gotten even a sniff from anyone else in the league anywhere close to that. There's absolutely no reason for Mac to not stand firm. His offer is -and has been- on the table for months, and if Fitzpatrick wants to play football this year, he should sign it. 

[j4jets]

22 hours ago, flgreen said:

Brand new concept.  Restructure contracts 

Very smart, especially one year removed from having six hundred mil in cap space. 

Tanny tried to manipulate the cap. A good GM manages it. We are already close to ZERO cap space for 2017. We were at around 20 n now Mo will count for probably like 17-20 mil, plus whatever Lee will count for. And that's without any restructures this year. 

[Rangers9]

18 minutes ago, slats said:

The only complaint I've seen about Mo Wilk's deal is that they paid too much. That if the team had gotten a deal done a year or two ago, when they had more leverage, they could've saved a few million. And this is in regard to a five year veteran of the team, a consistently excellent performer and pro bowl player. 

And then we have fans who want the Jets to capitulate to Fitzpatrick's demands in terms of money, the length of the deal, or both, when they hold all the leverage. And this about an 11 year journeyman who had one decent year as a Jet, not excellent, certainly not pro bowl level, just decent. Mike Maccagnan's responsibility is to the benefit of the Jets, not Ryan Fitzpatrick's feelings or desire to bet on himself. Mac wants Fitz for three years, $24M, and Fitz hasn't gotten even a sniff from anyone else in the league anywhere close to that. There's absolutely no reason for Mac to not stand firm. His offer is -and has been- on the table for months, and if Fitzpatrick wants to play football this year, he should sign it. 

So now it's "if you don't take our deal you don't play football." The only way this could happen is if the guy is being blackballed. Which is not an impossibility. 

[slats]

Just now, Rangers9 said:

So now it's "if you don't take our deal you don't play football." The only way this could happen is if the guy is being blackballed. Which is not an impossibility. 

The Jets made that offer when they thought other teams might also pursue Fitz. No one did. He's lucky they don't reduce or pull the offer given the market. They're under no obligation to negotiate, and would be foolish to to anything more than a little window dressing for Fitz' face-saving purposes. Has nothing to to with being blackballed - although when you've already played for 25% of the league, it starts to whittle down your opportunities, I guess. 

[PatsFanTX]

So now it's "if you don't take our deal you don't play football." The only way this could happen is if the guy is being blackballed. Which is not an impossibility. 

How, and why, is he being blackballed? That is crazy.

Mac has firmly drawn the line in the sand with Fitz, and rightly so.

If Mac caves in and offers Fitz more money, he will be viewed as a weak GM and hurt future negations with players.

Mac will not budge on Fitz.

[Rangers9]

Just now, slats said:

The Jets made that offer when they thought other teams might also pursue Fitz. No one did. He's lucky they don't reduce or pull the offer given the market. They're under no obligation to negotiate, and would be foolish to to anything more than a little window dressing for Fitz' face-saving purposes. Has nothing to to with being blackballed - although when you've already played for 25% of the league, it starts to whittle down your opportunities, I guess. 

If Fitz doesn't sign with the Jets he'll in the short run lose money. But if he plays well with another team he could make more money. Obviously salaries are going up. He doesn't want be tied up to a contract like that one. There's room for compromise here without the Jets having to spend more money. 

[slats]

Just now, Rangers9 said:

If Fitz doesn't sign with the Jets he'll in the short run lose money. But if he plays well with another team he could make more money. Obviously salaries are going up. He doesn't want be tied up to a contract like that one. There's room for compromise here without the Jets having to spend more money. 

Where's he playing if he doesn't sign with the Jets? What team is signing Fitzpatrick? What team will start Fitz over their current #2 if they lose their starter to injury (the great Fitz fantasy)? 

If he doesn't sign the deal on the table, he loses short term money, and all time money. 

[Rangers9]

13 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

 

 

How, and why, is he being blackballed? That is crazy.

 

Mac has firmly drawn the line in the sand with Fitz, and rightly so.

 

If Mac caves in and offers Fitz more money, he will be viewed as a weak GM and hurt future negations with players.

 

Mac will not budge on Fitz.

I didn't say he is being blackballed. I was replying to Slats saying if he wants to play football he has to sign that deal. As for not budging it's stupid. All deals have compromise. Nobody signs a deal like that. You're starter and then the backup. And basically an insurance policy for the GM if his draft pick can't start.  Give him a one year contract then.

[Maxman]

33 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

So now it's "if you don't take our deal you don't play football." The only way this could happen is if the guy is being blackballed. Which is not an impossibility. 

Blackballed? If Fitz was better than Tom Brady, he would be on the Patriots.

The only thing blackballing Ryan Fitzpatrick is his historical game film.

[Rangers9]

23 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

 

 

How, and why, is he being blackballed? That is crazy.

 

Mac has firmly drawn the line in the sand with Fitz, and rightly so.

 

If Mac caves in and offers Fitz more money, he will be viewed as a weak GM and hurt future negations with players.

 

Mac will not budge on Fitz.

And btw Mac did cave in with Wilk. Fitz's money is peanuts compared to that. 

[Sperm Edwards]

17 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Please verify the info on the incentives that makes you conclude this. I have seen no leaks on this. You are just guessing. Fitz and his agent have seen these incentives and he's refused to sign it for 6 months. He will sign a one year contract. Most players want multi-year deals including him. And just one more thing. When the Jets leaked this deal they didn't even mention the 2nd and 3rd years. I wonder why? And btw $24 mil is not the minimum. 15 mil is. 

$24M is the minimum if he stays 3 years. $36 is the maximum if he stays 3 years. $15M is the minimum if he stays 3 minutes.

There is every bit as much verifiable info on incentives causing him to collect $12M each year he starts than your Jets-are-the-boogeymen fantasy where he starts in 2017 but still only collects $6M.