Can Hackenberg really be this bad? UGH..

[jamesr]

Just imagine if we'd traded up to the #1 pick to take Goff ...  

[Larz]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

If only there was some warning that Hackenberg was not a good quarterback prospect. If only some literature detailing his issues with accuracy. Totally blindsided by this one.

I wrote this off as stat geekery, but I saw it all last night.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-why-pff-doesnt-have-a-draftable-grade-on-christian-hackenberg/

[Jetlife33]

Shocked at many of you, way too early to bash Hackenberg. He's a project, which we all knew going in. Red shirt year for him. Some of you make me laugh, too lazy to search the board but the day Petty went 0-for in practice you all said drop him immediately, he's awful, not worth rostering, etc. Ever since then hes had a different approach and he's played competent ball and many of you now think "he can be the guy" Always an extreme. Some of these QB's just need time, it's no coincidence Petty looks better than he did last season, I expect Hack to look better next year. Difference is Hack has a higher potential/ceiling agiven his physical tools, therefore was drafted in Round 2 compared to Petty's round 4. 

[Paradis]

2 minutes ago, Jetlife33 said:

He's a project, which we all knew going in. Red shirt year for him.

We're only a few months into the Hackenberg monolith -- but I'm already soooo exhausted of seeing this preposterous blanket statement. It's like if the Jets signed the rights to Aaron Hernandez and everyone said - Well, he's a murderer and we knew this going in

How does knowing the guy is a god damn mess make the fact that he's a god damn mess any more tolerable? 

[Jetlife33]

7 minutes ago, Paradis said:

We're only a few months into the Hackenberg monolith -- but I'm already soooo exhausted of seeing this preposterous blanket statement. It's like if the Jets signed the rights to Aaron Hernandez and everyone said - Well, he's a murderer and we knew this going in

How does knowing the guy is a god damn mess make the fact that he's a god damn mess any more tolerable? 

The fact that he's not expected to perform yet is a pretty big aspect of this whole Hackenberg pick. I'm not trying to sit here and say "Hackenberg is going to become an elite QB, just give him some time", because I have no idea if he will, just as those of you don't know if he will be a "bust". More of what I'm trying to say is it's too early to lean either way. The kid is obviously not ready, but the GM believes and sees something in him that in a few years down the line could become a starting QB in this league. And personally, Maccagnan's record as a scout and so far as a GM gives me confidence in believing what he sees. 

[Beerfish]

Well when I see that 'we all knew he was a project' statement I keep waiting for the logical follow up to go with it, that being, Our gm really screwed up by over drafting such a massive project, but that part never comes.  And hey who says drafting such a player is a good move at all in the 1st place?  There are buckets of players with big arms that can do anything else, why not draft one of them in the 7th round?

[Jetlife33]

2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Well when I see that 'we all knew he was a project' statement I keep waiting for the logical follow up to go with it, that being, Our gm really screwed up by over drafting such a massive project, but that part never comes.  And hey who says drafting such a player is a good move at all in the 1st place?  There are buckets of players with big arms that can do anything else, why not draft one of them in the 7th round?

If Hackenberg turns into a really good QB in this league, wouldnt the 1-2 years of waiting be worth it? 

[Scoop24]

4 hours ago, Warfish said:

Evaluate again in preseason 2018.

Because that's the timeline.

I wouldn't have picked him (I wanted Lynch, sorta, or the guy who ended up on the Raiders, Cook).

But he's here now, and his timeline (at the earliest) is likely 2018-2019.

And he id definitely Macc's guy.

So we wait.

Doubt it .. If the jets have terrible season and have a chance to get a top pick i doubt Macc would pass on a elite QB prospect . Hell he tried to trade up according to reports this year .. 

But I do agree lets just give it some time for hack... I rememeber the first time I saw Duante Culpepper In his first preseaso. He looked like the worst QB ever . The next year he got to start and went on to be a all pro . Not saying Hack is Culpepper but anything is possible right ? 

[Paradis]

2 minutes ago, Jetlife33 said:

The fact that he's not expected to perform yet is a pretty big aspect of this whole Hackenberg pick. I'm not trying to sit here and say "Hackenberg is going to become an elite QB, just give him some time", because I have no idea if he will, just as those of you don't know if he will be a "bust". More of what I'm trying to say is it's too early to lean either way. The kid is obviously not ready, but the GM believes and sees something in him that in a few years down the line could become a starting QB in this league. And personally, Maccagnan's record as a scout and so far as a GM gives me confidence in believing what he sees. 

Based on what? Drafting Leonard "the safest pick in the draft" Williams?... he's done alright by me managing contracts and FA. No complaints there. As far scouting beyond Williams? We have Devin Smith, Hackenberg, Mauldin, and a saloon door last night named Brandon Shell.. I'd pump the brakes there friend. 

Anyway - making excuses for Hackenberg being so bloody terrible sounds like you never watched him at PENN ST... Cause in my books when a GM drafts somebody that EVERYONE says is a god damn mess -- and then looks as bad as advertised -- is grounds for some criticism. 

[Paradis]

7 minutes ago, Jetlife33 said:

If Hackenberg turns into a really good QB in this league, wouldnt the 1-2 years of waiting be worth it? 

In a league where gamblin in the draft simply does not yield favorable returns - i'd say no. There's soooo much about player development/evolution that is out of our hands, why not try to limit the risks you CAN limit. eg. Not drafting write-offs

 

[Beerfish]

7 minutes ago, Jetlife33 said:

If Hackenberg turns into a really good QB in this league, wouldnt the 1-2 years of waiting be worth it? 

It's all about value and likelihood. The higher the draft pick the more sure as an evaluator you should be that the player is going to help the team and be a starter.

I have no issue with drafting project QBs and drafting a Qb per year, the QB I wanted from this draft was Brandon Allen, 6th round pick of Jacksonville he went 17-26, 164 yards 2 tds last night for them.

Hackenburg has so many  issues that he is a long range big hope QB.  The team has issues in other positions namely oline in which a solid 2nd round prospect would look much better than a hope and a wish 2nd round pick.

[Jetlife33]

2 minutes ago, Paradis said:

In a league where gamblin in the draft simply does not yield favorable returns - i'd say no. There's soooo much about player development/evolution that is out of our hands, why not try to limit the risks you CAN limit. eg. Not drafting write-offs

 

I feel like for a franchise that hasn't had a "franchise QB" in forever,  that this is a bad way of looking at things. I'm willing to wait on a kid who our GM believes has what it takes to become a good player in this league. As far as your post right before this one: I'm not "huge" on college football and I can't say I've watched pen state "a lot" but I did watch game tape on Hackengerg heading in to the draft before we selected him. I saw a guy who performed really well his freshman year in a pro style offense, who then after a huge turnover in regards to the roster and coaching staff began to struggle. I think most of his struggles come from mechanical issues which is fixable, given time. And as far as Maccagnan, listen we all have our opinions so it's cool for you to differ than mine, but I think he's done well in his drafts to date. Still too early to rate this past years, but I like what I've seen out of Mac thus far. 

[Paradis]

14 minutes ago, Jetlife33 said:

I feel like for a franchise that hasn't had a "franchise QB" in forever,  that this is a bad way of looking at things. 

If that were the case, maybe Macc should have thought twice before passing on an actual first round talent QB - one whom the world champions obviously thought well of when they traded up for him

[New York Mick]

He's never played well so I don't see why anyone is surprised.

[RutgersJetFan]

I don't see what the problem is. Lots of guys have 54 yards on 31 attempts.

[Greg555]

10 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

He's never played well so I don't see why anyone is surprised.

I saw most of his games with Penn State.  Your statement is closer to the truth than many here want to believe.  

 

[New York Mick]

3 minutes ago, Greg555 said:

I saw most of his games with Penn State.  Your statement is closer to the truth than many here want to believe.  

 

i watch all of ND then a lot of PSU, FSU and BC and of course big games. He stinks.

[long suffering jets fan]

12 hours ago, Shadetree said:

As the Great God of Fire, Charlie Casserly,  said, "You draft one every year until you find one."

He hired Mac, and I believe Mac will do just that. 

 

Agreed, with Geno gone and Fitz contract expiring we'll be signing a vet (maybe Fitz) and perhaps drafting another QB next year. 

[32EBoozer]

1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I don't see what the problem is. Lots of guys have 54 yards on 31 attempts.

[Freemanm]

It's just a preseason game. We knew coming in that he was very raw and from a disastrous program. He'll hold a clipboard for a season or two and learn. 

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, Freemanm said:

It's just a preseason game. We knew coming in that he was very raw and from a disastrous program. He'll hold a clipboard for a season or two and learn. 

I don't think anyone has a problem understanding that concept. From my observations the crux of the criticisms are when in the history of this league has a kid looked this bad, held a clipboard for two years and not gotten experience, and then he miraculously emerges as a viable starter? It doesn't seem like there is any precedent for what the team is asking of the fanbase.

[Irish Jet]

Hilarious how people are still willing to bury their head in the sand with this guy. He's been terrible for years, he's still terrible and will most likely continue to be terrible. 

Drafting a QB who needs to adjust to pro-style offences is one this, this guy needs to adjust everything. He's washed. Cut him.

[Anthony Jet]

Hackenberg was the 51st pick in the draft,   all the contempt for the kid and the pick is a little crazy considering most QBs coming that late are hit or miss anyway. FO likes the guy, no one knows if he would of lasted till the 4th, or the third for that matter. they made there move and now are trying to do something a jet FO hasn't done in a long time and devolp there guy.....lets see what happens 

[Big Blocker]

Sounds like the chances we see any of Hackenberg this season are between slim and none.  So this one goes on the shelf, but obviously leaves open a big question for next off season.  Hopefully Petty makes the questions here less pressing.

[joewilly12]

Jets coach Todd Bowles confirmed second-round QB Christian Hackenberg will get a "redshirt year."

Based on his performance in the preseason, he may need a redshirt career. The second-round pick was dire in his limited snaps during the exhibition season, and he is not going to get much better working behind Ryan Fitzpatrick, Geno Smith, and Bryce Petty in practice. He is shaping up as a wasted pick.

[Il Mostro]

Good thing the regular season is just around the corner.  Maybe we will have fewer idiotic and empty threads like this.

[Beerfish]

Just now, Il Mostro said:

Good thing the regular season is just around the corner.  Maybe we will have fewer idiotic and empty threads like this.

It's really not an idiotic thread.  People seem to want to avoid the unpleasant topics.  I do agree with you that the player will totally disappear from the radar until next training camp unless we have a rash of injuries. 

[PCP63]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Jets coach Todd Bowles confirmed second-round QB Christian Hackenberg will get a "redshirt year."

Based on his performance in the preseason, he may need a redshirt career. The second-round pick was dire in his limited snaps during the exhibition season, and he is not going to get much better working behind Ryan Fitzpatrick, Geno Smith, and Bryce Petty in practice. He is shaping up as a wasted pick.

Typical Jets fans. One terrible preseason performance, and he should be out of the league.

[Il Mostro]

On 9/3/2016 at 1:40 AM, Irish Jet said:

Hilarious how people are still willing to bury their head in the sand with this guy. He's been terrible for years, he's still terrible and will most likely continue to be terrible. 

Drafting a QB who needs to adjust to pro-style offences is one this, this guy needs to adjust everything. He's washed. Cut him.

You've got is ass-backwards. He actually performed very well in a complex pro style offense under O'Brien.  This, plus the obvious physical skills, make him worth taking a shot.  Petty, yeah, total adjustment to pro systems from day 1.

[CanadaSteve]

On 2016-09-02 at 4:48 PM, Paradis said:

In a league where gamblin in the draft simply does not yield favorable returns - i'd say no. There's soooo much about player development/evolution that is out of our hands, why not try to limit the risks you CAN limit. eg. Not drafting write-offs

 

Problem is Paradis, I don't think this kid is a write-off.  Would we be talking about this kid this way had O'Brien stayed his entire duration at Penn State?  You can't teach character, heart, desire, and lastly, a big arm.  NOBODY on this board, or any of his nay-sayers, can criticize him or accuse him of not having any of what I mentioned.

Am I disappointed in what I see so far?  Yeah, but I still think foot-work, throwing technique, and happy-feet can all be corrected with good coaching and an offensive line that won't get him killed.  In one of my mocks I had Dak Prescott going to us in the 3rd round because I figured someone would take a chance on him at 2, and I thought it would have been a little high.  Just didn't think it would be us doing the reaching.  Time will tell. 

[varjet]

PFF graded all of the First Round Rookies in the preseason.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-how-all-31-first-round-picks-played-this-preseason/

Although only 1 was a QB, it was apparent that the first game every rookie played in was awful.  Most got better.

There are a few other observations to be shared in different threads.

[kmnj]

5 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Problem is Paradis, I don't think this kid is a write-off.  Would we be talking about this kid this way had O'Brien stayed his entire duration at Penn State?  You can't teach character, heart, desire, and lastly, a big arm.  NOBODY on this board, or any of his nay-sayers, can criticize him or accuse him of not having any of what I mentioned.

Am I disappointed in what I see so far?  Yeah, but I still think foot-work, throwing technique, and happy-feet can all be corrected with good coaching and an offensive line that won't get him killed.  In one of my mocks I had Dak Prescott going to us in the 3rd round because I figured someone would take a chance on him at 2, and I thought it would have been a little high.  Just didn't think it would be us doing the reaching.  Time will tell. 

actually lots of questioned his character right or wrong but your statement is NOT accurate

[CanadaSteve]

On 2016-09-02 at 4:46 PM, Paradis said:

Based on what? Drafting Leonard "the safest pick in the draft" Williams?... he's done alright by me managing contracts and FA. No complaints there. As far scouting beyond Williams? We have Devin Smith, Hackenberg, Mauldin, and a saloon door last night named Brandon Shell.. I'd pump the brakes there friend. 

Anyway - making excuses for Hackenberg being so bloody terrible sounds like you never watched him at PENN ST... Cause in my books when a GM drafts somebody that EVERYONE says is a god damn mess -- and then looks as bad as advertised -- is grounds for some criticism. 

Of the 13 picks he has had, all 13 are still with the team, and he has found multiple un-drafted players who are on the roster. What more can you want from a GM?  I get you do not like the Hackenburg pick so early, and truth be told, I would have preferred waiting a round or two to get him.  He probably would have been there.  But I won't fault a GM who is taking QB's every year until he finds one.  If Fitz goes down or has a bad year, we will be picking high next year anyway.  Would it be high enough to get a more blue-chip QB prospect? We shall see.

So, criticism to Macc?  Quite possible, but I won't criticize until Hack is flipping burgers instead of playing football. 

[Barkus]

No doubt Hack looked downright horrible in the last game, he did show some flashes in the Giants game though. I agree, would prefer to draft someone who can contribute now in the second round and not such a project. However haven't the Jets had a decent 2nd round pick since Harris in 2007, so it's not like this team is not used to 2nd round busts. If he ends up being a bust at least we took a risk on a QB with some tools. Let's give him another year before we run him off the team.  

[Il Mostro]

15 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

It's really not an idiotic thread.  People seem to want to avoid the unpleasant topics.  I do agree with you that the player will totally disappear from the radar until next training camp unless we have a rash of injuries. 

The OP could not have been more of an empty vessel in his post.  Obviously, a real thinker.  Moreover, the topic is not even relevant.  The FO picked him as a project based on whatever potential they saw.  Hackenberg was never going to be a factor this year.  Irrelevant sniping and whining, at best.  In my book, it is idiotic.