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Philc1

How can anyone still defend Macagnan?

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1 hour ago, Pac said:

I think it's stupid to fire a guy for doing what you've been begging him to do since he got here, yes.

If I hired someone and I had to beg them three years to do what I hired them for I would actually fire them because of that. But hey, that's just me. 

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20 minutes ago, jetrider said:

The problem with this analogy is Macc negotiated the deal and signed the contract. Bowles and his handpicked crew did the painting.

The problem with this post is you have no evidence to actually support it.

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28 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I will also say this. Jermaine Kearse had a solid game yesterday. They have him for another year. Which will set up a good weapon for the new QB that's going to come in

That's the whole frickin problem. When Macc hand picks our next QB, if (and it's a big giant if) he picks a good one, who the hell has Macc stacked around him on offense to make this QB successful?? We have a shat offensive line, a shat wr group, and a shat backfield. The crowd who repeatedly chirps "this is what a rebuild looks like", what they don't understand and fail to realize is that we're AT MINIMUM 3 yrs away from being competitive. So 6 years into the Macc era we can MAYBE expect a playoff team????

That's pathetic. And don't start with fa money, Macc has proven time and again he will overpay for past their prime vets. How do I know? 20 mill in dead money, for one. And a track record of moronic moves of trading DRAFT CAPITAL for past their prime jags. Stupid. Just plain stupid. And that goes for the fans who still believe in his suckage.

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3 minutes ago, gEYno said:

The problem with this post is you have no evidence to actually support it.

It was Idzik's fault that the team was bad when he was here, because he was bad. Its not Maccc's fault the team is bad, because Maccc is good. Try to keep up

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50 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

If I hired someone and I had to beg them three years to do what I hired them for I would actually fire them because of that. But hey, that's just me. 

You're not his boss - Woodrow is.  And Macc finally convinced him to drain the swamp.

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4 minutes ago, Pac said:

You're not his boss - Woodrow is.  And he finally convinced him to drain the swamp.

If I hired him to hire ( draft) people and this is what I had after three years I would fire him. I have seen nothing from Mac that supports giving him more time. 

 

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Mac seems like an intelligent guy, and I am a firm believer that you've got to "do" a job to get better at it.  

Clearly, his first two draft were not so good, but I thought he did much better this past year. And he has us positioned to have money in free agency for 2018 and, hopefully, the top pick with 2 QBs worthy of a #1 overall selection coming out (If Darnold doesn't decide he's having too much fun in college) .

While the bashing for selecting Hack is warranted... it was a desperate reach, hopefully he learned his lesson. We'll never know about Devon Smith because no one can predict injuries. Darron Lee was not really worthy of  a first round pick, but no one at that point in the draft was. Have you ever gone back and looked at the guys picked after Lee? 

1 20 NYJ Darron Lee OLB 21 2017 0 0 1 4 4 14 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 49   2.0 Ohio St. College Stats
1 21 HOU Will Fuller WR 22 2016 0 0 1 6 6 14 0 0 0 0 0 1 -3 0 47 635 2       Notre Dame College Stats
1 22 WAS Josh Doctson WR 23 2017 0 0 0 1 1 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 66 0       TCU College Stats
1 23 MIN Laquon Treadwell WR 21 2016 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 15 0       Mississippi College Stats
1 24 CIN William Jackson CB 23 2017 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2     Houston College Stats
1 25 PIT Artie Burns CB 21 2017 0 0 0 5 5 17 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 53 3   Miami (FL) College Stats
1 26 DEN Paxton Lynch QB 22 2016 0 0 0 1 1 3 49 83 497 2 1 11 25 0 0 0 0       Memphis College Stats
1 27 GNB Kenny Clark DT 20 2017 0 0 0 3 3 17 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 14     UCLA College Stats
1 28 SFO Joshua Garnett G 22 2016 0 0 1 5 5 15 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0       Stanford College Stats
1 29 ARI Robert Nkemdiche DT 22 2016 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0       Mississippi College Stats
1 30 CAR Vernon Butler DT 22 2016 0 0 0 1 1 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5   1.5 Louisiana Tech College Stats
1 31 SEA Germain Ifedi G 22 2017 0 0 1 6 6 14 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0       Texas A&M College Stats

 

So, I'm willing to let Mac continue to grow. He has shown he knows how to pick the obvious player in the first round. So, he should be OK in 2018 picking the QB. The degree of improvement in 2018 will determine his future.

 

 

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Just now, Sonny Werblin said:

Mac seems like an intelligent guy, and I am a firm believer that you've got to "do" a job to get better at it.  

Clearly, his first two draft were not so good, but I thought he did much better this past year. And he has us positioned to have money in free agency for 2018 and, hopefully, the top pick with 2 QBs worthy of a #1 overall selection coming out (If Darnold doesn't decide he's having too much fun in college) .

While the bashing for selecting Hack is warranted... it was a desperate reach, hopefully he learned his lesson. We'll never know about Devon Smith because no one can predict injuries. Darron Lee was not really worthy of  a first round pick, but no one at that point in the draft was. Have you ever gone back and looked at the guys picked after Lee? 

1 20 NYJ Darron Lee OLB 21 2017 0 0 1 4 4 14 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 49   2.0 Ohio St. College Stats
1 21 HOU Will Fuller WR 22 2016 0 0 1 6 6 14 0 0 0 0 0 1 -3 0 47 635 2       Notre Dame College Stats
1 22 WAS Josh Doctson WR 23 2017 0 0 0 1 1 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 66 0       TCU College Stats
1 23 MIN Laquon Treadwell WR 21 2016 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 15 0       Mississippi College Stats
1 24 CIN William Jackson CB 23 2017 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2     Houston College Stats
1 25 PIT Artie Burns CB 21 2017 0 0 0 5 5 17 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 53 3   Miami (FL) College Stats
1 26 DEN Paxton Lynch QB 22 2016 0 0 0 1 1 3 49 83 497 2 1 11 25 0 0 0 0       Memphis College Stats
1 27 GNB Kenny Clark DT 20 2017 0 0 0 3 3 17 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 14     UCLA College Stats
1 28 SFO Joshua Garnett G 22 2016 0 0 1 5 5 15 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0       Stanford College Stats
1 29 ARI Robert Nkemdiche DT 22 2016 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0       Mississippi College Stats
1 30 CAR Vernon Butler DT 22 2016 0 0 0 1 1 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5   1.5 Louisiana Tech College Stats
1 31 SEA Germain Ifedi G 22 2017 0 0 1 6 6 14 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0       Texas A&M College Stats

 

So, I'm willing to let Mac continue to grow. He has shown he knows how to pick the obvious player in the first round. So, he should be OK in 2018 picking the QB. The degree of improvement in 2018 will determine his future.

 

 

Plus if the team is bad then its Bowleses fault anyway

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3 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Yeah it's no win so he should stop trying, and so should all of the players. 

The Rams were just as bad as the Jets in 98. Of course we're asking for a miracle here, but we're just asking for a chance for a miracle.

You can't catch lightning in a bottle unless you open the bottle and hold it out.

I guarantee you that if Bowles is the head coach Kurt Warner never sees the field. 

Uh, if Dick Vermeil is the HC then Kurt Warner never sees the field. Not unless someone first rips Trent Green's knee ligaments to confetti during the final preseason game. Green was 1st string, Warner was 2nd string. 

After the 1998 season the Rams were rebuilding (not the least of which, entailed the acquisition of Green and Faulk); after the 2016 the Jets were in teardown mode and replaced more than a handful of starters with Beachum and Claiborne. Bruce was 27 and already established; they used their 6th overall pick on Torry Holt not of a safety; their LT was a 1st team all pro they (cheaply) traded up to draft #1 overall 2 yrs earlier; they already had a RT and a G and C plus added another starting guard in '99;  they had a young, demon outside pass rusher on one side and drafted another solid starting end for the other side the prior year; they found London Fletcher the prior year as an UDFA rather than burning a #1 pick on the likes of Darron Lee; they had 2 veteran starter corners, and found their ballhawk safety in round 3 a few years earlier.

The only thing these 2 teams have in common is they both had lousy W/L records the prior season. The similarities end there. 

I don't know how a football fan can possibly look at this Jets roster, then look at the 1999 Rams' Superbowl winning roster, and conclude that the difference between the two is as simple as you claim. Because of their respective rosters, the '99 were expected to be a competitive team with Trent Green; the Jets were never expected to be competitive with anybody at QB.

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24 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Plus if the team is bad then its Bowleses fault anyway

Bowles is doing a pretty terrible job...  I don't blame him for the offensive woes but this is HIS D.  His reluctance to fire his buddy Kacey may lead to his destruction.

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29 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

If I hired him to hire ( draft) people and this is what I had after three years I would fire him. I have seen nothing from Mac that supports giving him more time. 

 

I have.

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19 hours ago, Philc1 said:

His drafts suck.  $20 million in dead cap room. He cannot evaluate the qb position at all.  How on Earth can some jets fans still want this guy picking our qb next Spring?

The only time we ever drafted a good QB was when Parcells chose Chad Pennington in 2000. Even Broadway Joe - if you look at his career in total - really wasn't a good QB. Macc is just another in a long line of GMs desperate for a franchise QB. We can finally get one in 2018, so we shouldn't complain.

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7 minutes ago, Freemanm said:

The only time we ever drafted a good QB was when Parcells chose Chad Pennington in 2000. Even Broadway Joe - if you look at his career in total - really wasn't a good QB. Macc is just another in a long line of GMs desperate for a franchise QB. We can finally get one in 2018, so we shouldn't complain.

I think he's addressing the notion that these prospects aren't all going to pan out and become (good) franchise QBs, and our GM hasn't proven worthy of discerning the trash from the treasure.

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59 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

It was Idzik's fault that the team was bad when he was here, because he was bad. Its not Maccc's fault the team is bad, because Maccc is good. Try to keep up

It's even worse than that.

Mac is good, Bowles is bad.

Therefore, bad things that are currently happening are because of Bowles, because Bowles is bad, not because of Mac, because he is good.  Naturally, anything good about this team is because of Mac, who is good, and in spite of Bowles, who is bad.

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24 minutes ago, gEYno said:

It's even worse than that.

Mac is good, Bowles is bad.

Therefore, bad things that are currently happening are because of Bowles, because Bowles is bad, not because of Mac, because he is good.  Naturally, anything good about this team is because of Mac, who is good, and in spite of Bowles, who is bad.

It's amazing. A perfect inversion of the Idzik-Rex arguments, and made by the exact same people to boot.

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Bowles is doing a pretty terrible job...  I don't blame him for the offensive woes but this is HIS D.  His reluctance to fire his buddy Kacey may lead to his destruction.

Imagine what this defense would look like if we would have hired jim shwartz as our dc instead of kacey Rodgers. Bowles wouldn't have to worry about the defense and could maybe attempt to work at being a better head coach instead of worrying about making excuses to keep his friend employed.

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

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35 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Yeah, but, like, while I've been busy 'whining' for the last decade, you've been busy being wrong about everything.

haha..  funny but couldn't be further from the truth.  

My predictions have a 94% accuracy rating since 2010.

One of the only things I was wrong about was there would be less whiny bitches this decade.

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2 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:


Imagine what this defense would look like if we would have hired jim shwartz as our dc instead of kacey Rodgers. Bowles wouldn't have to worry about the defense and could maybe attempt to work at being a better head coach instead of worrying about making excuses to keep his friend employed.

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Could have gotten Wade Phillips this off season... 

Rodgers is going to be the reason they're all fired..  

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As I stated in another thread I'm starting to sour on Mac and whether he should continue as GM depends entirely on how his picks do this year. Which is somewhat hard to evaluate because as of now, most are not playing. With that said here is how I see things:

2015 Draft - Not good. Obviously Williams is a stud but the rest of the picks are not on active rosters. I have given up hope on Mauldin. This draft COULD turn into a good one if Petty starts and plays well. 

2016 Draft - Teetering on Negative. Lee looks bad and Hack is a disaster. However, Jenkins, Burris, Shell and Edwards performed decently yesterday. If Peake could see the field and show improvement it would be hard to call this draft class a bust even with Lee and Hack. You don't dump GM's who potentially hit on 5 out of 7 picks. 

2017 Draft - This is where I believe Mac either stays or goes. For the most part, Adams looked good. Maye looks lost but hard to judge a rookie in his first game and safety isn't the easiest position. Stewart, Hansen, Leggett and McGuire NEED to see extensive playing time this year. They need to be evaluated quickly and in game situations that actually matter as opposed to the end of the year when the team has given up.

 

Long story short - Hard to tell as of right now whether Mac should keep his job. If the majority of Mac's picks in the 2017 draft look like solid contributors/starters moving forward, I find it VERY hard to believe that you can let him go after this season. I think if you do, when these guys hit their peak we will be reminiscing on the drafts similar to how some reminisce about Mangini's drafts. Of course, if the players look like crap then it's time to clean house and bring in a new guy for 2018.  

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As I stated in another thread I'm starting to sour on Mac and whether he should continue as GM depends entirely on how his picks do this year. Which is somewhat hard to evaluate because as of now, most are not playing. With that said here is how I see things:
2015 Draft - Not good. Obviously Williams is a stud but the rest of the picks are not on active rosters. I have given up hope on Mauldin. This draft COULD turn into a good one if Petty starts and plays well. 
2016 Draft - Teetering on Negative. Lee looks bad and Hack is a disaster. However, Jenkins, Burris, Shell and Edwards performed decently yesterday. If Peake could see the field and show improvement it would be hard to call this draft class a bust even with Lee and Hack. You don't dump GM's who potentially hit on 5 out of 7 picks. 
2017 Draft - This is where I believe Mac either stays or goes. For the most part, Adams looked good. Maye looks lost but hard to judge a rookie in his first game and safety isn't the easiest position. Stewart, Hansen, Leggett and McGuire NEED to see extensive playing time this year. They need to be evaluated quickly and in game situations that actually matter as opposed to the end of the year when the team has given up.
 
Long story short - Hard to tell as of right now whether Mac should keep his job. If the majority of Mac's picks in the 2017 draft look like solid contributors/starters moving forward, I find it VERY hard to believe that you can let him go after this season. I think if you do, when these guys hit their peak we will be reminiscing on the drafts similar to how some reminisce about Mangini's drafts. Of course, if the players look like crap then it's time to clean house and bring in a new guy for 2018.  

Something else to keep in mind before your final verdict is that we kept idziks scouting staff the first season with macc because he didn't want to bring in a new team and have them to a hurried job scrambling a year's worth of work into a few weeks before the draft.

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

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15 hours ago, HessStation said:

The best microcosm for how ****ed up this team is and how bad the GM sucks, Harrison is now a premier dominant force in the NFL, Richardson looked terrific today with Seattle and Mo Wilkerson looked like a fat, lazy piece of sh*t. 

Really profound analysis, except PFF had Wilkerson's performance graded higher than Richardson's and just a hair below Harrison's.

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Having heard the news that Adams played only 19 snaps at safety pisses me off. 

And Macc should be pissed off too. He drafts moldable talent and hands them over to a dimwit. Darron Lee is the same way. Moldable talent, hands him over to a dimwit

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21 hours ago, Pac said:

What QB's have been available for christs sakes? 

Last year; Dak Prescott to name one.  Sure other teams passed over him but so what? Dak in the third made more sense then Hack in the second....  This draft, Kiser and Mahomes may haunt us for years...

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Just now, JetBlue said:

Last year; Dak Prescott to name one.  Sure other teams passed over him but so what? Dak in the third made more sense then Hack in the second....  This draft, Kiser and Mahomes may haunt us for years...

Mahomes is going to stay on the bench after that Alex Smith performance against NE.

 

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Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Mahomes is going to stay on the bench after that Alex Smith performance against NE.

You are right but he would be starting for us.

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26 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Last year; Dak Prescott to name one.  Sure other teams passed over him but so what? Dak in the third made more sense then Hack in the second....  This draft, Kiser and Mahomes may haunt us for years...

Don't forget Watson, Trubisky and Carson Wentz. Any of the above would be light years better than the shiz Macc has added to the roster. 

Why do people assume that just because a player went before the Jets pick that we had no chance to aquire them? In both cases, Trubisky and Wentz, QB needy teams aggressively traded up to draft these guys. The Jets are allowed to do that too, for those that didn't realize. 

So ppl just need to stop with the crap argument that Macc hasn't had a chance to add a worthy QB prospect. He has....multiple times. 

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45 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Having heard the news that Adams played only 19 snaps at safety pisses me off. 

And Macc should be pissed off too. He drafts moldable talent and hands them over to a dimwit. Darron Lee is the same way. Moldable talent, hands him over to a dimwit

Its a disgrace. Macccc gives him gold and he turns it into sh*t

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